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Hero League 101

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
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shiroiusagi
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
SoCal, USA3955 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 15:49:21
May 17 2015 23:34 GMT
#1

HERO LEAGUE 101

THE FUNDAMENTALS OF
HIGHER LEVEL HEROES PLAY


by xDaunt

Author’s note: This is version two of the guide that was published in May 2015. The guide has been brought current to account for changes to heroes and the evolving meta. A new section, “The Art of the Carry,” has been added at the end. Enjoy.

So you’ve just hit level 30, and you think you’re ready to shoot up to rank 1 of Hero League. Think again! Hero League is a cesspool of toxic behavior, horrific decision-making, and overall gameplay that inspires the classic philosophic question of “WTF?” Hero League is not a nice place. Still, there are things that players can do to maximize their opportunities to climb the ladder, and there are reasons why some people are able to get to, and stay at, Rank 1 while solo-queuing when most can’t.

Fortunately for you, my experience with the horrors of Hero League and playing at Rank 1 has inspired me to write a gigantic guide to explain many of those things. I’m not interested in offering largely useless, clichéd advice such as “Don’t flame your teammates.” I want to provide real, tangible knowledge that explains the nuts and bolts of the game that the vast majority of players simply don’t understand (much to my horror). Obviously, this guide can’t explain every trick of the trade, but reading this guide should provide novice players with the mental framework needed to be good (or at least better) at HotS. Drafting strategy and gameplay tactics will both be discussed in detail. Finally, the issue of “carrying” in HotS will be addressed directly and explanation for how it works and how to do it will be provided.

The information in this guide will enable players to push themselves from the ranks of the casual into the ranks of the competitive. The overall goal is to teach the fundamentals of higher level play, which is applicable beyond Hero League to HotS gameplay in general. The most important thing to understand about climbing the hero league ladder is this: consistently sound decision making is the key to success in HotS. Everything else is secondary. Class is in session.

Class is in session.

ON THE TOPIC OF GOOD PLAYER MECHANICS


Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS. If a given hero does not feel like an extension of yourself when playing that hero, then you should not play that hero in Hero League. Practice in quickmatch first to develop proper muscle memory. If you can’t pull off Uther’s triple stun combo at will, don’t play him in Hero League. If you can’t land Tyrande’s skillshots, don’t play her in Hero League. If you don’t know when you can safely dive someone to secure a kill with Illidan (and are prone to suiciding when trying to secure kills), don’t play him in Hero League. And for the love of all that is holy, quit picking Stitches when you can’t land a hook to save your life.

This guide is going to focus on the strategic and tactical aspects of HotS. However, properly dealing with these issues in game requires a certain level of mechanical competence. Make sure that you have it.

HERO ROSTER


HotS requires that players to have at least 10 heroes on their roster (excluding free-to-play heroes) in order to play Hero League. Beyond that, players are free to have whatever heroes that they want on their roster going into Hero League. Just because you can jump into Hero League with a roster of Valla, Murky, Abathur, Tassadar, Sonya, Azmodan, Nova, Arthas, Zeratul, and Raynor does not mean that it is a good idea.

Though assassins and specialists are all of the rage, do not play Hero League without a balanced roster of heroes, all of whom that you can play competently. At a bare minimum, you need to own three tanks and three supports. Why? Because these are the roles that most often need filling during the Hero League draft. Why three of each? Because the worst thing that can ever happen is for you to be unable to fill a critical role for a team because all of your heroes for that given class were selected. For example, double support compositions have been very popular at various points in the meta. If you have only one or two supports, there is an unacceptably high chance that your supports will be unavailable during the draft. Why put yourself in a position where you are all but guaranteeing a loss at team select? Team compositions matter, which leads us to our next topic.

HERO SELECTION


Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?

a)Rehgar
b)Tassadar
c)Brightwing
d)Uther
e)Malfurion
f)Lili
g)Tyrande
h)Kharazim



Without regard to who is on the enemy team, there is one, clearly optimal pick here (though there are others that you can make work). Picking this hero (we’ll discuss who it is below) will not guarantee your team a victory, but it certainly will put your team in the best position to win the game. Again, team compositions matter. All things being equal, the better team composition will generally win. Success in Hero League, therefore, requires sufficient understanding of who each hero is, what each hero can do, and when to pick a given hero based upon your team’s and the enemy team’s compositions.

A. What does the team need?

Let’s start with the basics. The three core roles that every team needs to fill are tank, damage dealer, and healer. Tanks soak up damage and protect squishier characters. Damage dealers are responsible for doing damage – predominantly to the enemy heroes. Healers heal friendly heroes. If the team is missing one of these, it probably is fatally flawed. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they all involve highly advanced strategy considerations that are outside of the scope of this guide.

Beyond the three core roles, there are three utility functions that need to be filled: crowd control (otherwise known as “CC”), initiation, and lane presence.

Crowd control, which includes stuns (we’ll include Polymorph here), roots, and slows, allows your team to assert its will in teamfights by neutralizing enemy heroes to one degree or another. Of all crowd control forms, stuns are the most important because 1) they are the most effective at neutralizing enemy heroes by stopping them cold, and 2) they can interrupt otherwise devastating enemy heroic abilities such Ravenous Spirit and Jug of 1,000 Cups.

Initiation is the ability to and manner in which your team begins teamfights. Good initiation is very important to success. Generally, tanks will all be competent at initiating teamfights to one degree or another. However, having additional heroes who can initiate can be valuable as well, especially given that initiation abilities often have other uses that may be more ideal in certain circumstances. For example, Thrall can use Sundering to initiate teamfights. But if the enemy team has a Nazeebo with Ravenous Spirit, and Thrall’s team has no other means of reliably interrupting Nazeebo, then Sundering would be better used as an interrupt in that circumstance, leaving initiation duties to someone else. In short, redundancy is a good thing. Lane presence is what I will generally refer to as a hero’s capacity to control and dominate a lane. Generally speaking, wave clearing and pushing are the two most common and effective ways to establish lane presence. But lane presence can also be established asymmetrically with well-timed ganks and outright out-dueling an opponent.

Lane presence is important in that pushing and destroying towers, forts, and other objectives both gives your team an experience advantage and brings your team closer to ultimate victory. Strong lane presence also forces the other team to react. For example, heroes like Azmodan and Sylvanas cannot be left to their own devices in lane, because they will simply burn down everything in their path, granting their teams an advantage. The pro meta has evolved to the point where heroes with strong lane presence are being prioritized over more traditional options. Leoric and Johanna are two of the premier tanks in no small part due to their ability to efficiently clear creep waves. Zagara and Nazeebo are being chosen over more traditional ranged assassins, because of their strong lane presence. Ultimately, what a team needs is a means of establishing adequate lane presence in all lanes. There are a lot of ways to skin this particular kitty. But what cannot happen is for multiple lanes to always be in danger of failing. This possibility must be accounted for and avoided during team selection. Make sure that your team can field a lane alignment that can hold its own. Better yet, pick heroes that will ensure that your team dominates the laning phase.

Beyond the core utilities, there are other utilities that can be very important depending upon the map or other circumstances. These include vision, bribe, traditional merc seizure, global movement, burst damage, burst healing, MULE, siege capability, cleanse, and a variety of buffs and debuffs. For example, vision is critical on maps like Battlefield of Eternity, Blackheart’s Bay, and Tomb of the Spider Queen, where vision over specific map points needs to be maintained. MULE is tremendously effective on Sky Temple. Haunted Mines is a map where heroes with siege capability can really shine (or just first pick Sylvanas whenever you can....). Debuffs, such as Shrink Ray, are important when your team needs to shut down heroes like Illidan or Thrall. On the other hand, buffs and Cleanse are capabilities that your team probably wants to have to support a friendly Illidan or Thrall.

When one starts thinking about available heroes in the context of which roles they can fill and which utilities that they can provide, one starts to understand why certain heroes are ranked higher on tier lists than others.

B. What kind of composition is my team running?


[image loading]
At higher levels of play, some consideration also needs to be given to the type of team composition that your team is running. In particular, players should be aware of the four kinds of team compositions: poke comps, dive comps, wombo combo comps, and siege comps. Each is suited to a very particular kind of gameplay that does not suit all heroes.

Poke comps are those that have a lot of heroes with ranged abilities (and attacks) that can be used for safely harassing and dealing damage to enemy heroes at a distance. Poke comps are more or less the standard team composition. Proper tank selection is typically the most important issue here. The best tanks are the ones that can peel enemy heroes away from the squishy back line. Johanna is the best at this, which, unsurprisingly, is why she is generally considered one of the top tanks. Dive comps are those that contain multiple heroes who can initiate teamfights by jumping on and assassinating one enemy hero quickly. Signature dive comp heroes include Tyrael, Illidan, Anub’Arak, Sonya, Kharazim, and ETC. Any hero who has access to Blood for Blood, which is a critically important assassination tool, should be prioritized for dive comps. Likewise, heroes with other heavy-hitting abilities that can help quickly erase dive targets should also be considered for selection. Supports with access to burst healing should be picked to keep alive the diving frontline heroes.

Wombo combo comps are those that are stacked with heroes with big AoE heroic and basic abilities. The general idea is to catch the enemy team in a clump and unload all of you heavy-hitting abilities, thereby killing the enemy team instantly. Notable wombo combo heroes include Zeratul, Zagara, Falstad, Valla, ETC, Leoric, Jaina, Gazlowe, Kael’Thas, Uther, Sylvanas, Nazeebo, and Nova. Wombo combo comps can be brutally effective, but they require a very high degree of team coordination. Honestly, it is very hard to properly pull off a good wombo combo without the team being on voice communications. Nevertheless, if your team has a lot of heroes with wombo combo potential, then you should pick a hero and talent that hero in a way that accommodates it.

Siege comps are designed to push lanes heavily and aggressively. Ideally, siege comps play very asymmetrically, using their laning strength to create crises at enemy forts and keeps all around the map to establish a level lead that can help make up for the inherent teamfighting deficiencies of the team. Classic siege comps include multiple of the following specialists: Azmodan, Murky, Abathur, Zagara, Gazlowe, Sylvanas, Sgt. Hammer, and Lost Vikings. Complimentary tanks and supports are those that have strong lane presence. As with poke comps, effective peeling is also important. High mobility should also be prioritized – both for evading teamfights and for maintaining aggressive lane presence around the map.

So let’s revisit the pop quiz from above. The best hero to pick for that particular team composition (and without regard to the enemy team’s composition) is Uther. First, having Illidan and Tyrael means that the support will be operating in a dive comp. Burst healing becomes necessary. The rest of the team’s picks are very light on CC in general. The stuns that Uther can provide become invaluable in this circumstance and set Uther apart from the other premier burst healer in the game, Rehgar. Illidan also greatly benefits from Cleanse, which Uther can provide. No other support checks all of these important boxes, which is why Uther is generally considered to be the best overall support hero. Finally, Uther’s plethora of CC also makes him a counterpick to Illidan. Picking Uther deprives the enemy team of the opportunity to take one of Illidan’s counters, which brings us to our next subject....

C. Who did the enemy team pick and how can I punish them for it?



Counterpicking is an art unto itself. It is also is far too complicated of a subject to really do justice in the limited space available here. Still, it is a critical element of hero selection, so let’s take a moment to examine some of the basics.

The critical question to ask when counterpicking is “How can the enemy team hurt us, and how can we stop them?” Answering this question requires at least a passable understanding of every hero in the game. Minimally, you should know every hero’s abilities, talents, and likely build paths. You also should know how each particular hero fits within a team during a teamfight. The most important aspects of a hero to understand are the heroic abilities. These are the abilities that determine the outcomes of teamfights depending upon execution. If one team effectively counters or otherwise avoids being hurt too badly by the heroic abilities of the other team while exacting good value from its own heroic abilities, that team probably will win a teamfight.

Armed with the information listed above, weaknesses and other soft points in enemy team compositions start to become clear. Not only does hero selection become easier, but a natural order of battle tactics emerges in game. You will know which abilities to use on whom and when. Just make sure that the rest of your team gets the memo.

Here are some of the important counterpicks that hero league players should be aware of:

Illidan: The name of the game here is CC, CC, more CC, and direct damage abilities. The quick and dirty answer is to pick one of the support heroes with hard CC – Uther and Brightwing – who can dedicate their existence to shutting Illidan down long enough for the rest of the team blow him up. The biggest mistake that players make is picking a support with limited CC (such as Malfurion, Rehgar, and Lili) when the rest of the team has limited CC and an Illidan pick from the opposite team is still a possibility. This often results in a loss strictly as a function of bad team comp.

Channeling Heroic Abilities: What do Mosh Pit, Ravenous Spirit, and Jug of 1,000 Cups all have in common? They are heroic abilities that can absolutely murder an enemy team (through healing or damage) if allowed to be used uninterrupted. When you see heroes with big channeling heroics being selected by the enemy team, make sure that your team has a means of stopping them. Otherwise, you’re going to have a bad day. Tyrael and Tyrande are both excellent at disrupting enemy heroic abilities due to the reach of their stuns.

Siege Heroes: The big pushers and merc camp mongers such as Zagara, Gazlowe, and Azmodan all are generally weak to gank-heavy counterplay. Remember: pushing requires exposing oneself. Accordingly, powerful roamers such as Kerrigan, Zeratul, Nova, Tyrande, and Muradin have an opportunity to shine in these situations. The same strategy works against a split-pushing Sylvanas, it just is a little harder to pull off due to Haunting Wave.

The Lost Vikings: Let’s take a moment to discuss how to deal with these little bastards. The mistake that too many players make is letting the Lost Vikings’ split lane farm without consequence. This mistake lets the Lost Vikings’ team amass significant early game experience advantages that snowball into victories. The key is to diligently and deliberately deny the Lost Vikings the ability to split lane (pay attention to how relatively infrequently the Lost Vikings’ are able to split lane in pro games) by 1) never attacking enemy minions (thereby not pushing the lane) when a Viking is present, and 2) actively attacking, harassing, and zoning out the Viking. Heroes with good burst damage and roaming potential like Nova and Zeratul are particularly good at sniping Vikings and making split laning exceedingly difficult.

GAMEPLAY



Now that we have covered how to pick heroes, it’s time to discuss playing the game. We will attack this subject from numerous angles.

A. On the subject of death

Drawing inspiration from the 44th American president, the number one rule for proper gameplay is “Don’t do stupid shit.” Players who routinely are substantial causes of their teams losing games simply do not reach Rank 1. No matter how good a player’s mechanics are, game-throwing brainfarts will cost them victories over and over again. Complete elimination of your own mistakes is the first step on the road to success in this game.

The single mistake that players make that most often costs their teams victory is dying needlessly. Despite what the least informed among us may say, every death is significant. Even in the early game when respawn timers are low, deaths very quickly result in one team gaining an experience lead over the other. Unless you are sacrificing yourself so that your team can decisively win teamfights, death is always bad. If you have the most deaths on your team, it is likely that you are performing the worst on your team – especially if you account for a high percentage of your team’s deaths.

The proper attitude towards death is the following: “I died, because I did something wrong.” So let’s take a look at some of the most frequent errors that players that result in death:


Engaging enemy heroes shorthanded: This is the big one – the primary cause of needless death. One or more players from one team – but less than the full five – engage multiple players from the opposing team, and end up getting caught in an outnumbered situation, resulting in one or all of them dying. Just don’t do this. Never engage players from the enemy team unless 1) you have your full team with you, or 2) you know where the rest of the enemy team is and do not have to worry about being caught in an outnumbered situation. Two heroes defending a fort against a 4-man push is not going to save the fort. It will only result in the opposing team killing two heroes and a fort instead of just a fort. And for the love of all that is holy, do not challenge the enemy team at an objective before your team has arrived in full. Doing so will just result in bad things happening. Yes, some of your teammates may be stupid for failing to timely arrive at an objective, but you would be the bigger dumbass if you charged in and died anyway.

Overextension in lane: Many players push their lanes hard and continue to push without regard for where the enemy players are. Players who do this are very easy targets for ganks in lane. Pushing a lane hard is fine, but it must be done smartly. Map awareness is the key. If you are unaware of where the rest of the enemy team is, you probably should back off. And just remember the following: it is your fault if you die from a gank when you have pushed your lane, regardless of whether your teammates called “MIA.”

Overextension in teamfights: Otherwise known as “diving” (typically with an expletive preceding it) or “going ham,” this is what happens when players push too hard and go too deep in teamfights. Chasing kills usually is a bad idea. Charging into the rest of the enemy team or fighting under forts and towers to chase kills is just stupid. Be mindful of your positioning. Getting a bad case of tunnel vision chasing a hero is just going to end in bad things happening to you and to your team.

Getting picked off like a newb: Let’s just call this what it is. These are the situations where someone stupidly offers himself up as a fat engagement target, resulting in instant death. Typically these people are playing squishy heroes who wander ahead of their tank or otherwise try to do something cute with their positioning, at which point they stun/snared and blown up. In fact, let me just offer the following: the positioning that most players demonstrate with squishy heroes (especially with glass cannons like Jaina and Kael’Thas’) is absolutely atrocious. Generally speaking, the enemy team should never see your team’s squishy characters until a teamfight has started. Otherwise, the enemy team will engage on your team’s squishy characters and bad things will happen. Lastly, please remember the following: just because you’re hiding in a bush does not mean that you are in a safe spot. The elimination of these types of mistakes from your game will help you improve more than anything else that is discussed in this article.

B. Map Awareness

If you were paying attention to my comments on how players routinely die in stupid fashion, you should have noticed a fairly common theme: lack of map awareness. Map awareness is an important concept of which players must have a good grasp if they want to be any good at HotS. So let’s talk about it.

Simply put, map awareness is knowing exactly what is going on in the game at any given time during the game. This includes knowledge of where every player is, which objectives are open, which merc camps are open, and which lanes are being pushed. Critically, players with good map awareness always know where enemy players are likely to be even if they are not visible on the map. The power of this intuition is self-evident: it’s the next best thing to a map hack. Good map awareness allows players both to avoid trouble and to create opportunities to punish the enemy team and create an advantage.

You might be wondering how one acquires this mystical power. There are three elements to it: mechanics, deduction, and experience.

The most important real estate on your computer screen in game is in the bottom right corner. The mini map is your best source of information at any point during the game. A brief glance at it will show you almost everything that you need to know about the current state of the game, which will then inform your strategic decision-making. The logical conclusion, thus, is that players should be looking at their mini map frequently. How frequently? Every couple of seconds unless you’re engaging in a 5v5 teamfight. You must make this a mechanical habit.

When looking at the minimap, there are several things that must be accounted for:

      1. Which enemy players are visible and where they are located (including which ones are dead);
      2. Which enemy players are not visible (ie, which enemy players are missing) and where these players were last seen;
      3. Where your teammates are;
      4. Which merc camps are open, and which have been taken;
      5. Which lanes are pushed; and
      6. Whether and where any map objectives are active.

The answers to these questions, when combined with game experience, can give you a very accurate idea regarding what enemy players are doing, what they’re likely to do, and, consequently, what opportunities are available for your team. Here are a few of the more general rules to keep in mind when deducing what the enemy team is up to:

Active map objective = High likelihood that multiple enemy heroes are at or will be arriving at the map objective: This is the most axiomatic of the rules and, consequently, fairly self-explanatory. Map objectives are important, and every team will prioritize them. I’m mentioning this one first, because it alters the calculus of the other rules below.

Missing enemy hero(es) + Open merc camps on the enemy team’s side of the map = High likelihood that the missing enemy hero(es) are taking their merc camps: This rule must be adjusted to account for which enemy heroes are missing and the behavioral history of the missing enemy heroes. If the enemy Gazlowe who has been laning all game suddenly goes missing, he’s probably at a merc camp. If the enemy Kerrigan who has gone missing has been repeatedly ganking your team all over the map, she probably is getting ready to gank again instead of taking a merc camp. You also should account for map objective timings. It is very common for good players to time the seizure of merc camps to coincide with pushing a lane when a map objective is active. The most common example of this is seizing bruiser camps right before the second temple phase on Sky Temple (usually at around the 3:50-4:00 mark depending upon when the first temple phase ended).

Missing enemy heroes + Your team just got stomped in a teamfight on your team’s side of the map + Open merc camps on your team’s side of the map = High likelihood that multiple enemy heroes are taking your merc camps: Smart teams aggressively push their advantage after winning a teamfight. Usually, they will do one or more of the following four things: 1) push your forts, keeps, or core, 2) take a map objective, 3) take a boss, or 4) take merc camps. Taking merc camps on your team’s side of the map is more common in the early game, particularly when the other options are not available and when the subject teamfight occurred on your team’s side of the map.

Heavily pushing one of your lanes = High likelihood that at least one enemy hero will come to that lane: The effect of lane pushing is one of the more important advanced concepts in HotS. Pushing a lane heavily has two important effects. First, it extends map control by giving your team vision and control over the lane up to the point where the minion lines are fighting. Second, it forces the enemy team to respond and neutralize the push, lest they wish to lose towers, forts, and keeps, thereby ceding an experience advantage to your team. Combined, these two effects give you additional information regarding where enemy heroes are likely to be and what they’re planning. In other words, this makes the enemy team more predictable, providing you an opportunity to exploit that predictability with an aggressive move of your own, whether it be setting up an ambush, taking a map objective, stealing merc camps/bosses, etc. Of course, you should also be wary of getting ganked and picked off when pushing a lane. Make sure that you’re not over-exposed.

Entire enemy team missing + Open boss + Lanes either neutral or in enemy team’s favor = High likelihood that the enemy team is at or near the boss: Notice how the right side of the equation is worded. It does not say that the enemy team is taking the boss. Why not? Because it is fairly common for enemy teams to bait the boss or other significant map objectives. Accordingly, always approach the boss with caution if you suspect that the enemy team is there. Otherwise you’ll be a candidate to be posterized in a “IT’S A TRAP!” meme.

You being visible to the enemy team + Enemy heroes not visible = You are not safe: Far too many players carelessly clear minion waves without regard to where enemy players are, which often results in them getting ganked and killed. This is particularly true in the late game where proximity to your base is no defense to an enemy attack. The same is true of face checking bushes when the enemy team is not visible. Always exercise caution when moving around the map.

I cannot stress enough how important map awareness is. I got to Rank 1 largely playing a very roam-heavy style of Zeratul, which is entirely predicated upon good map awareness. Rotation-heavy maps like Dragon Shire, Blackheart’s Bay, and Tomb of the Spider Queen will always be dominated by the teams and players with superior map awareness. Likewise, map awareness, more than anything else, will help you avoid costing your team the game by making a game-throwing error. Take time to develop this skill.

C. PvP Initiation

[image loading]
Every engagement with the enemy team (PvP) entails significant risk. Losing a fight and dying will minimally give the enemy team an advantage, and in the late game, can result in instant defeat. For this reason, deciding when to fight is a critically important decision that must be made with care. Here are some of the most important considerations:

Who has the numerical advantage? For the reasons discussed above, engaging in any fight where you potentially could be shorthanded is just a bad idea. Make sure that you are aware of where your teammates are where the rest of the enemy team is before engaging.

What level is each team? Level advantages matter. The extra stats alone make a significant difference, but talent advantages are the real difference makers. The team with an extra tier of talents is far more likely to win a straight up teamfight. Because of this, players need to be mindful not only of what level everyone is before engaging in a teamfight, but players also need to consider whether they should delay a teamfight to hit a new talent tier before engaging. Likewise, they should consider whether the opposing team will hit a critical talent tier (such as hitting level 10 and getting access to their heroic abilities) in the middle of the teamfight.

How healthy is each team? This is simple enough: avoid teamfights if teammates are low on health and mana. Just go back to base and live to fight another day.

Whose heroic abilities are up? Here’s another simple concept: not having access to your heroic abilities is a big disadvantage in a fight. Earlier, we discussed the importance of the minimap. The talents screen on the score tab is also a nice piece of screen real estate. This screen shows which of your team’s heroic abilities are up and how long is remaining on the cooldown for any heroic ability that has been used. Likewise, players should take mental note of when enemy player use their heroic abilities, and call it out so that everyone on the team is aware.

Is there something more important that we should be doing? Even if your team is likely to win, sometimes it is better to forego teamfights for larger strategic considerations. For example, Sky Temple and Blackheart’s Bay are maps with powerful map mechanics that can level the enemy base for you, negating the need to push keeps and the core. There is no need to risk a big fight when your team can patiently wait for the map to win the game for you. Similarly, your team should be mindful of engaging in a teamfight when your forts and keeps are being heavily pushed. The better move may be to back off and clear the lane first.

Must the battle be fought to save the game? Even if it’s a suicide mission, some battles must be fought as a last ditch effort to save the game. Typically these situations occur when the enemy team has a level advantage and is about to secure a victory by either seizing a boss or a map objective. If this is the case, then you really don’t have much to lose.

D. PvP Tactics

Actor and Senator Fred Thomson’s character noted in the movie The Hunt for Red October that “the Russians never take a dump without a plan.” When it comes to PvP combat in HotS, good players always have plans. For teamfights specifically, good players know their roles, communicate their intentions to their teammates, and then stick to the plan with laser-like focus.

This begs the question of what should a given player do in a teamfight. The answer is one of our favorites: “It depends.” Look to detailed hero guides and pro play to see how certain heroes fit within team compositions, what their strengths are in teamfights, and how they can be used to hurt the enemy team. Still, there are a few basic rules that apply generally:

Do not dump damage on enemy tanks unless the enemy tank is completely isolated or there are no other available targets. Tanks generally have a ton of hit points, damage mitigation, and self-healing. They do not die easily. They also tend to do minimal damage and pose relatively minor threats to your team. If you are dumping damage on them in a teamfight when the enemy team is dumping damage on your backline (healers and damage dealers), you probably are going to lose. Good players save their heavy hitting abilities for squishier targets such as high damage dealers and healers. That said, there will be times when you don’t have a choice but to hit the tank, because the tank will be the only target that can be reached. In these cases, it will be okay use basic abilities and auto-attacks on the tank. Save the heroics for the backline, however.

The first enemy heroes to die should always be their biggest damage dealers. These are the heroes that will hurt your team if they aren’t killed first. Have a plan to deal with them.

Avoid excessive clumping when there’s a risk of being hit by a big AoE ability. Nothing will end a teamfight before it really starts faster than multiple players on a team getting caught by a big heroic ability such as Mosh Pit, Rain of Vengeance, or Devouring Maw. Be mindful of this and maintain disciplined spacing to as to minimize the impact of these devastating abilities.

Do not chase wounded enemy heroes when the teamfight is not over. Little is more embarrassing than a player who chases a wounded hero, while the rest of his team gets slaughtered in the still-raging teamfight. Make sure that your team will control the field at the end of a teamfight before chasing wounded heroes.

Be very wary about using escape abilities for offensive purposes. As you have likely gathered by now, dying is very bad and inconsistent with good play. Movement abilities such as Zeratul’s Blink or Bolt of the Storm are incredibly valuable, because they can be used to help a hero escape from a situation that will result in death. In teamfight, there is always a risk that a given hero will be exposed to such a deadly situation. Having a way out helps keep your team on even footing with the enemy team. Therefore, these escape abilities should generally be preserved as the life savers that they are. Be very hesitant to use them for offensive purposes such as securing kills or initiating fights – especially if you are playing a squishy hero.

E. Merc Camps

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Merc camps are probably the most misunderstood mechanics in HotS. The average player sees that a merc camp is open and typically decides to take it without regard to anything else. This is bad. At best, haphazardly taking merc camps results in the waste of an asset. At worst, haphazardly taking merc camps results in a catastrophe for the team, such as getting picked off or ceding a map objective to the enemy team. As with everything else in HotS, the decision of when and whether to take a merc camp should be made with care.

That decision starts with an understanding of the function of merc camps: a merc camps is a resource that pushes a lane. As was discussed earlier, pushing a lane creates a threat that the enemy team must respond to. What’s important is understanding when to use the finite resource that is the merc camp to force enemy team to respond to a lane push. If merc camps are triggered at a time when the enemy team does not have any other threat (or opportunity) to attend to, then the enemy team will simply kill your mercs before they have had an opportunity to do any work for you. On the other hand, if you take a merc camp right before (or sometimes during) a map objective phase, then you’ll have created a dilemma for the opposing team: defeat your mercs, or potentially give up the map objective. This dilemma becomes far more acute the later the game goes, because at stake won’t just be forts, but keeps.

The general rule for taking merc camps is to only take them when you will be creating such a dilemma for the enemy team. Take merc camps so that their push coincides with a spawning map objective, an attempt at seizing a boss, or a concerted team push in another lane.

There are a couple of exceptions to this rule. If your team has established map control over the enemy team’s merc camps (ie your team just won a teamfight or enemy team’s lanes are heavily pushed into their main base), go ahead and take those merc camps while you can. Even if the timing of the seizure isn’t ideal, you still will be denying your opponents an important map resource. Second, make sure that you use your siege giants on Haunted Mines to kill the enemy golem. This means capping the siege giants just as the enemy golem passes the gate of the enemy team’s outer fort (as a side note, it is amazing to me how many people still screw this up).

And whatever you do, do not take merc camps while a map objective is present. For example, you should always prioritize gathering seeds on Garden of Terror over seizing merc camps. For a map like Dragon Shire, you can take merc camps and use their push to help secure the dragon knight, but only do so if taking the merc camps will not result in the opening of a window during which the enemy team can secure the dragon knight. Again, the key here is to have a planned purpose for seizing the merc camps before you do it.

Lastly, no discussion of merc camps would be complete without offering a few words on taking the boss:

AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE BOSS UNLESS MULTIPLE ENEMY HEROES ARE DEAD.

F. Split Pushing and Doing Your Own Thing

Split pushing (or otherwise leaving the rest of your teammates to pursue a separate objective) can be a powerful tool in that it allows your team to accomplish multiple things at once. It is also a highly-leveraged tool, meaning that it carries a risk whenever it is used. This risk comes from the fact that the team is split up and vulnerable to being caught in an outnumbered situation. Indeed, one of the reasons that players hate having the classic split pushing heroes on their team (Gazlowe, Azmodan, etc.) is that the players playing those heroes often contribute very little to teamfights due to their constant split pushing, which ultimately results in a loss as the opposing team wins the decisive teamfights and controls the critical map objectives.

So here’s the critical concept to understand when it comes to split pushing: it is never a baddecision to stay with the group and forego chasing another objective by yourself. Staying with the team is always safe and won’t, by itself, put your team in danger.

So when is splitting off from the team to pursue a separate objective appropriate? It depends. If a teamfight is imminent, then you must stay with the team. If your team has just won a teamfight, but not killed off all of the opposing heroes, then you probably should stay with your team if they try to capture map objectives or bosses. Unfortunately, you simply won’t be able to split push in games where you have teammates who are not smart enough to avoid committing to outnumbered teamfights while you are split pushing. Some players need babysitting. As you develop map awareness and game sense, you’ll get a better feel for when taking the risk to split from the team is a good move.

But here’s the bottom line: think long and hard about whether it is a good idea to be separated from the rest of your team before wandering off to do your own thing.

G. Bad Team Decisions

Unfortunately, most of the players that you will be playing with will not have had the benefit of reading this guide, and that fact will often be reflected in their horrible decision-making throughout a game. So what should the intelligent player do in the face of horrific decision-making by the rest of the team? In most circumstances, the intelligent player has to join in the folly. If your team has decided to try to seize a boss in an obviously dangerous situation, and the team refuses to back off, your only hope of salvaging the situation is to help them kill the boss quickly. Standing on the sidelines and pointing out that the rest of your team is a bunch of newbs isn’t going to help when your teammates are slaughtered like the newbs that they are.

Remember: HotS is a team game. Do your best to encourage your team to make good decisions. But when bad decisions are made, see that your newb teammates’ will be done. You sometimes will be pleasantly surprised at how things turn out.

THE ART OF THE CARRY


One of the more common criticisms of HotS as a game is that individual players are too dependent upon the quality of the play of their teammates in order to win. In other words, it is impossible for one player to “carry” his team. The source of this criticism is players experience with other MOBAs (notably DotA and LoL), where one hero can become strong enough to single-handedly defeat five enemy heroes. The differing mechanics in HotS – particularly the lack of items – has thus created the misperception that individual players cannot have sufficient impact upon a game to carry their teams to victory. This misperception then fosters a sense of hopelessness in players who feel like they are stuck in “MMR Hell” or “Rank 20 Hell” or “[FILL IN THE BLANK] Hell.” All of these sentiments, of course, are nonsense.

A. What is “carrying” in HotS?



Understanding what “carrying” is in HotS begins with an understanding of how teams win. The sole objective for victory in HotS is the destruction of the enemy core. Destroying the core merely requires destroying at least one enemy keep, which exposes the core to damage. There are many (basically infinite) ways in which games can play out to the ultimate conclusion of one core being destroyed. So why does one team win over another?

Novice players make the mistake of focusing on one or two key points during the game as being outcome determinative of a given game. Cataclysmic teamfights, shorthanded/uneven engagements, and heroes getting picked off are generally are viewed as being the why one team won over the other. These events are important, but focusing on them ignores the larger context of the game. Though a player on your team may have stupidly gotten picked off, there likely was a long chain of events that occurred over the course of the game that led to that particular stupid decision. Chances are, your actions played role in it to one degree or another, and probably in ways that are not immediately obvious to most of you.

For example, let’s think of a hypothetical game on Dragonshire. Both Red Team and Blue Team are level 20. Each has a keep missing, so the core is exposed. Right as the Dragon phase is beginning, the Illidan on Blue Team stupidly engages the enemy in a shorthanded situation and dies (it’s always Illidan, isn’t it?). With a numerical advantage Red Team is then able to easily grab the Dragon and win. Why did Blue Team lose? The most immediate cause was Illidan’s idiotic demise. Still, pinning all of the blame on him is shortsighted. Consider the following: why were both teams level 20 and on nearly equal footing at that point in the game? Why didn’t Blue Team have a two level advantage? Why not a three or four level advantage? Why did Red Team have any keeps remaining? Why did Blue Team previously lose a keep? More specifically, what opportunities did any and all Blue Team members fail to capitalize on earlier in the game that resulted in the teams being on equal footing at that particular point in the game?


Whereas the “Gameplay” section above focused on mistakes of the game-throwing variety, here, we are going to focus on a different sort of mistake: the lost opportunity. These particular mistakes are incredibly insidious. They are often far from obvious, but their cumulative impact is no less important than the game-throwing error of Blue Team’s Illidan as described above. The simple truth is that it is far harder for a team to lose when it has a large lead. What separates the best players from the good players is the ability to seize on opportunities to give their team an advantage, thereby snowballing their teams to strategic positions where it is far less likely that a teammate will make a game-throwing error.

Therefore, players in HotS “carry” their teams when they create enough advantages for their teams that cumulatively make victory far more likely than it otherwise would be. Note how this definition of carrying is couched in probability. Obviously, one player cannot absolutely control the actions of the four other members of his team (wouldn’t this be nice...). Players will do stupid things despite all of the leadership and cajoling that their teammates can summon. All that can be controlled is the likelihood that those stupid actions will result in a loss.

B. Seizing the Advantage



So what are these “advantages” that players can provide for their teams? They can be a lot of things: a timely kill, destruction of a fort, capture of a merc camp, and so on. But what we’re really after is a concrete and repeatable objective. That objective – the advantage that is most important to consistently provide teams – is the experience advantage (ie level advantage).

Let’s review the key fundamentals of experience. First, experience is the sole resource providing hero improvement and scaling in the game. Experience unlocks both additional stats and additional abilities through talent selection. Second, there are three sources of experience: killing enemy minions, destroying towers, forts, and keeps, and killing enemy heroes. Some other objects also grant experience such as the undead minions in the mines on Haunted Mines and mercenaries, but we’ll ignore them for simplicity’s sake. Therefore, seizing the experience advantage is a function of 1) killing/destroying as many experience-granting objects as possible, and 2) denying the enemy the opportunity to destroy as many experience-granting objects as possible.

Clearly there is a lot to juggle here given the mutually exclusive nature of a lot of these objectives. You can’t solo push a fort and contribute to a teamfight on the other side of the map at the same time. What is needed is an ordering of priorities. This ordering will always depend upon the circumstances at a given time in a given game, but consider the following to be a general guideline of what the thought process should be when you are trying to carry your team:

  1. Be at every major teamfight: Teamfights are always the most pivotal moments in games given the amount of experience that is conferred upon the winning team from hero kills and the likelihood that the winning team will be able to seize an important map objective afterwards, thereby accruing even more experience. If you’re not there, you are, at best, leaving your fate to chance. At worst, you are handicapping your team by forcing them into a shorthanded situation. Being present for teamfights requires a certain degree of anticipation and map awareness. Show up early. Be there to initiate the fight if circumstances are favorable. The more teamfights that you are present at, the more that you will win those teamfights, and the more likely it will be that you will win your games.

  2. Execute successful ganks: Hero kills are the most important path to acquiring an experience lead. Not only does the kill grant experience to your team, but it can deny experience to the enemy team if a lane is left vacant as a result. The best players actively look for opportunities to secure kills during the laning phase; they avoid playing passively. As with most everything else, the key to successful ganks is map awareness and, specifically, recognizing the opportunity when it arises. Critically, look for opportunities to create odd-man engagements where your team outnumbers the enemy team in an engagement. These situations are pure gold. However, keep in mind that unsuccessful ganks can set your team back if a lane is left open as a result, thereby sacrificing experience from soaking.

  3. Counter-ganking: If executing successful ganks is important for your success, it also means that it is important for the enemy team’s success. You’d best not let them be successful. Inevitably, you will have teammates that expose themselves to being ganked in lane. Typically they will be pushing their lane hard while multiple enemy heroes are missing. The best players recognize these situations and come to their teammates’ aid. Done right, you may be able to singlehandedly turn a bad situation into a winning situation by saving your teammates and killing an enemy hero or two. These are opportunities that cannot be missed.

  4. Pushing forts, soaking experience, and taking merc camps: If there are no teamfights or ganks to be had, then you should be in a lane, minimally soaking experience, and ideally pushing the lane. If you can safely take a tower or a fort, by all means do it. Opportunities for easy kills on keeps should always be taken. If you can quickly and efficiently seize a merc camp at a time that exploits a map objective timing, do it.

The common theme to this list priorities is the importance of being heavily involved in any PvP combat that occurs around the map. The more frequently that you are involved in PvP combat, the more frequently that you will be able to both secure kills for your team and save your teammates from their own stupidity. And here’s a critical point that you should note: I have not said that the ability to carry is limited to any particular class in the game. A well-played support hero who is actively engaged in the PvP aspect of the game can carry a team. Dealing damage is important, but keeping your teammates upright and providing other utility in teamfights is critical as well.

Lastly, do not be fooled by the simplicity with which I am presenting this issue. Effectively carrying by consistently being at the right place at the right time is incredibly hard to do. Even the best players mess it up and miss opportunities. Still, you will find that your game will greatly improve if you make a dedicated effort to follow this list of priorities.

CONCLUSION


Much of succeeding at HotS boils down to making intelligent decisions, whether it’s making the right hero pick or avoiding needless death in-game. These decisions must be informed with experience and an understanding of the game. Though this guide cannot explain everything, hopefully it will provide a good starting place for all of those who wish to clean up their game and climb the ladder to Rank 1.

Interested in more?
Heroes of the Storm Discussion Forum

What You Can Learn By Watching Heroes
Transitioning into the Nexus
Welcome to the Nexus: A Basic Guide to Heroes of the Storm
Hero League 101:The Fundamentals of Higher Level Heroes Play
Map and Hero Specific Guides
Writer: xDaunt
Graphics & Format: shiroiusagi
Art Credit: Blizzard
Editor(s): GMarshal, [Phantom], KadaverBB
Graphics@shiroiusagi_ | shiroiusagi.net
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 18 2015 00:34 GMT
#2
Reserved for future content.
kornetka
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Poland129 Posts
May 18 2015 00:40 GMT
#3
Damn, I fit perfectly in all "DON'T DO THIS!" categories :D
broodwar for ever
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 18 2015 00:43 GMT
#4
On May 18 2015 09:40 kornetka wrote:
Damn, I fit perfectly in all "DON'T DO THIS!" categories :D

Players like you were my inspiration for this project. =)
Big G
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy835 Posts
May 18 2015 00:53 GMT
#5
Wonderful guide!

On the topic of map awareness and merc camps, I would like to add a simple tip: if one or more enermy heroes don't show up on the minimap, just hit TAB and check if their siege damage is growing.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
May 18 2015 00:53 GMT
#6
wow thats alot of good information, thank you.
The line about bad decisions made me realize something. They might not know what they are doing, but they are probably really experience at it, unless they are really new.
Glenn313
Profile Joined August 2011
United States475 Posts
May 18 2015 03:55 GMT
#7
That was an amazing read
Hey man
Tritone
Profile Joined June 2010
Japan76 Posts
May 18 2015 05:47 GMT
#8
As someone who started playing HotS about a week ago, this guide is like mana from heaven.

Thanks!
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
May 18 2015 06:49 GMT
#9
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
May 18 2015 06:52 GMT
#10
How does not attacking the minions help when a Lost Viking is present? I can see that you clearly want to attack the Viking to push them out and make them micro your Viking, but I don't see why one can't possibly attack both the creeps and the Viking.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
May 18 2015 06:56 GMT
#11
You are going to be pushing the lane equilibrium to be closer to their towers so the Viking can safely soak. If you want him to come out so you can gank him the creeps have to be close to mid/your towers.
Valiver
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Caldeum1977 Posts
May 18 2015 06:59 GMT
#12
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?

If Uther has Benediction he can stun with Hammer of Justice twice.

On May 18 2015 15:52 Random_0 wrote:
How does not attacking the minions help when a Lost Viking is present? I can see that you clearly want to attack the Viking to push them out and make them micro your Viking, but I don't see why one can't possibly attack both the creeps and the Viking.

If you don't hit the minions in the lane they will push toward your own towers and make the vikings much more vulnerable as they will have to come out farther to still get the xp.
Writer
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
May 18 2015 08:41 GMT
#13
This was helpful, thanks Ghostcom and Valiver!

For Uther, I always take Hardened Focus over Benediction... Is pulling off this sort of combo worth the improved cooldown on all the rest of Uther's abilities?
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
May 18 2015 09:56 GMT
#14
This is just my opinion, so don't take it for more than it is worth, but my outlook is this: The times where you really want short CDs you are not going to be above 80% health and thus Hardened Focus doesn't really help, benediction can be used with all basic abilities, and in some scenarios you will mitigate more damage by stunning a DPS than healing an ally.
Shtanjel
Profile Joined November 2014
Slovenia49 Posts
May 18 2015 11:08 GMT
#15
Nice guide.
After a couple of weeks' break I got the itch to play HotS again. And since I'm about to enter Hero League shortly, some of these tips will definitely come in handy.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
May 18 2015 11:12 GMT
#16
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!


Really nice guide though, it covers the basics and a little more than that. You have a good solid understanding of how the games will be played out and what things to take into consideration. I do have one minor issue tho.

"AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE BOSS UNLESS MULTIPLE ENEMY HEROES ARE DEAD."

While this is true, you can also "sneak" it. On Blackheart's Bay, if you see the enemy paying and rotating bottom, while your team is at the top side, it is considered an "even" trade if you do boss for the bruiser camp+ship. It can be very hard to determine when this play is supposed to be executed, but that's the irony of the throw pit i guess ^^
hi
Solmyr
Profile Joined April 2008
Poland261 Posts
May 18 2015 11:32 GMT
#17
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 11:56:01
May 18 2015 11:40 GMT
#18
On May 18 2015 20:12 Sponkz wrote:
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!


Really nice guide though, it covers the basics and a little more than that. You have a good solid understanding of how the games will be played out and what things to take into consideration. I do have one minor issue tho.

"AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE BOSS UNLESS MULTIPLE ENEMY HEROES ARE DEAD."

While this is true, you can also "sneak" it. On Blackheart's Bay, if you see the enemy paying and rotating bottom, while your team is at the top side, it is considered an "even" trade if you do boss for the bruiser camp+ship. It can be very hard to determine when this play is supposed to be executed, but that's the irony of the throw pit i guess ^^


Even without the broken Lili answer you can make a valid argument for rehgar or brightwing, which fit better than uther I think.
Uther as solo healer is often a bit little in hero league where having good sustain on your team helps a lot. Players will oftne commit to long fights and many players often don't sustain themselves properly, solo uther has problems here while rehgar or brightwing does not as much.
Rehgar has better burst heal and sustains much more, plus adds a nice blood for blood to nuke a hero. A slightly better choice i'd say. Brightwing also is an option to provide even better sustain and have a bit of splitpushing capability, quite good too depending the map. With so much chase potential and already slow through jaina I don't even think you'd need uther's stun as much here, depending though on what they have to interrupt.

Either way the information for the quiz would be lacking but the answer is definately not clearly Uther here and as such a poor choice of quiz for such an article.

Doesn't take anything away from the rest of the article though which is solid. The general rule about bosses also has plenty of exceptions but as a general rule it isn't bad.

Edit:
One thing I disagree about is the emphasis on not focussing the tank. This is often stated but I don't think it's neccesarily true, if you need to go deeper to reach the backline it's often not even worth the risk even if you could. Besides tanks in this game are not that much tankier than other heroes, and most importantly most do not have things that makes damaging them much less efficient. Sure tanks have a much higher hp to damage ratio and are thus less ideal to target but most don't have anything that let them take reduced damage or heal more efficiently (amplified healing and hardened skin are the big exceptions but until lvl 20 you rarely see those effects). Some tanks aren't bad to target, diablo in this patch for example and many comps even run semi-tanks / bruisers now like tyrael and anub'arak which can be quite fine to focus.
The thing mostly is, if you go slightly deeper to reach their backline, that backline will typically be able to reach you. And their tank will often get in the middle of your backline instead of at the edge as a result, this is often not that ideal. Also holding the trigger on abilities can be good but many abilities in this game are on a very short cooldown and it's often just better to fire it off then to wait for a good oppurtunity to hit their backline.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
May 18 2015 11:46 GMT
#19
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?


Some of the other MOBAs put a lot more emphasis on hero control than HotS to be honest. The vast majority of HotS games are decided by your teams decisionmaking (which can be troubling as HotS puts somewhat more emphasis on the team-play than other MOBAs - it is a lot harder to carry).
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 12:07:34
May 18 2015 12:02 GMT
#20
On May 18 2015 20:40 Markwerf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 20:12 Sponkz wrote:
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!


Really nice guide though, it covers the basics and a little more than that. You have a good solid understanding of how the games will be played out and what things to take into consideration. I do have one minor issue tho.

"AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE BOSS UNLESS MULTIPLE ENEMY HEROES ARE DEAD."

While this is true, you can also "sneak" it. On Blackheart's Bay, if you see the enemy paying and rotating bottom, while your team is at the top side, it is considered an "even" trade if you do boss for the bruiser camp+ship. It can be very hard to determine when this play is supposed to be executed, but that's the irony of the throw pit i guess ^^


Even without the broken Lili answer you can make a valid argument for rehgar or brightwing, which fit better than uther I think.
Uther as solo healer is often a bit little in hero league where having good sustain on your team helps a lot. Players will oftne commit to long fights and many players often don't sustain themselves properly, solo uther has problems here while rehgar or brightwing does not as much.
Rehgar has better burst heal and sustains much more, plus adds a nice blood for blood to nuke a hero. A slightly better choice i'd say. Brightwing also is an option to provide even better sustain and have a bit of splitpushing capability, quite good too depending the map. With so much chase potential and already slow through jaina I don't even think you'd need uther's stun as much here, depending though on what they have to interrupt.

Either way the information for the quiz would be lacking but the answer is definately not clearly Uther here and as such a poor choice of quiz for such an article.

Doesn't take anything away from the rest of the article though which is solid. The general rule about bosses also has plenty of exceptions but as a general rule it isn't bad.

Edit:
One thing I disagree about is the emphasis on not focussing the tank. This is often stated but I don't think it's neccesarily true, if you need to go deeper to reach the backline it's often not even worth the risk even if you could. Besides tanks in this game are not that much tankier than other heroes, and most importantly most do not have things that makes damaging them much less efficient. Sure tanks have a much higher hp to damage ratio and are thus less ideal to target but most don't have anything that let them take reduced damage or heal more efficiently (amplified healing and hardened skin are the big exceptions but until lvl 20 you rarely see those effects). Some tanks aren't bad to target, diablo in this patch for example and many comps even run semi-tanks / bruisers now like tyrael and anub'arak which can be quite fine to focus.
The thing mostly is, if you go slightly deeper to reach their backline, that backline will typically be able to reach you. And their tank will often get in the middle of your backline instead of at the edge as a result, this is often not that ideal. Also holding the trigger on abilities can be good but many abilities in this game are on a very short cooldown and it's often just better to fire it off then to wait for a good oppurtunity to hit their backline.


Brightwing could be viable, then you see your fellow Illidan pick and realise, she would be better for the enemy.

I guess Rehgar would be a fine choice with Illidan, but honestly either Uther or Li Li would just be insane.

The reason why Uther would be strong, is the initiation and the immediate follow-up. A good fight would start with Tyrael engaging into Falstad+Illidan heroic onto whoever Tyrael caught. This is the expected start, but with Uther instead of rehgar, things change afterwards; The enemy team's best response would be to nuke Illidan whenever he pops out of metamorphosis but with Uther, he gets the divine shield and dives further into the enemy back-line while Jaina+Uther+Falstad kills the enemy tank, allowing them to dive into Illidan´s spot when the divine shield runs out.


Now with Li Li the start is the same, but instead of a shield, she just pops heroic+serpent on Illidan, allowing him to do the same thing.

If you wanted to do that with rehgar, rehgar HAS to dive with Illidan, meaning the Rehgar/Jaina/Falstad vs tank will never happen. Your carries would be more vulnerable.


edit: The only scenario where Rehgar would be strong, is when Illidan metamorphosis and needs the ancestral healing right away due to heavy bursting from the enemy.

Oh and in case someone's wondering what Tyrael is doing after his heroic, he's either helping cleaning off the melee pre-13 or diving with illidan post-13 due to Imposing Will.
hi
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 13:25:30
May 18 2015 13:07 GMT
#21
I definitely think a case can be made that Rehgar would be a good pick for my pop quiz. He is the superior healer, and he does have Blood for Blood. If Uther was unavailable, Rehgar would be the clear second choice. I still do not think that he is the best pick. Uther simply provides more utility -- particularly because this comp has an Illidan. I've had a bunch of games where an Uther+Illidan combo straight up carried the game by themselves. As for Brightwing, she would not be a good pick. She doesn't provide enough burst healing to support a dive comp. Depending upon enemy team comp, you might be able to get away with it, but it just isn't a good idea.

EDIT: And as for the tip about the Boss, I purposefully decided not to expand on when to take the boss. Boss timing is really dependent upon the map. Different considerations apply to taking a boss on Cursed Hollow than on Tomb of the Spider Queen. And there are also special considerations depending upon which heroes you have on your team. A very different calculation applies when you have a Robo-goblin Gazlowe on your team. I felt it would be better not to go too far down that rabbit hole in this article.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 18 2015 13:11 GMT
#22
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.
Tpyro
Profile Joined July 2010
France10 Posts
May 18 2015 14:17 GMT
#23
Awesome guide! Thanks so much for this. Best way to remind yourself of the things you do wrong and what you need to improve. Specifically liked the part on teamcomp, as I never thought about heals as burst VS constant, etc...
Aren't we all just korean wanabe's?
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
May 18 2015 16:01 GMT
#24
On May 18 2015 22:11 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.


In short : hots is different from other mobas because it is less micro focused and more macro focused.
Thats why I think its easier for rts players to get into it.
Solmyr
Profile Joined April 2008
Poland261 Posts
May 18 2015 17:30 GMT
#25
Sadly I am not one of them. I think people that came here from SCII are matched with warcraft/diablo crowd now and think that those guys fail to understant what's this game is all about. I think if you aren't lvl 5-10 and not trolling it extremly easy game to grasp.
But if you miss your skillshots you just aren't good enough on mechanics side. And I am not sure this can be changed much. Or maybe I am pesymistic.
In other words I suck at Jaina
StayPhrosty
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada406 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 17:57:40
May 18 2015 17:55 GMT
#26
On May 19 2015 02:30 Solmyr wrote:
Sadly I am not one of them. I think people that came here from SCII are matched with warcraft/diablo crowd now and think that those guys fail to understant what's this game is all about. I think if you aren't lvl 5-10 and not trolling it extremly easy game to grasp.
But if you miss your skillshots you just aren't good enough on mechanics side. And I am not sure this can be changed much. Or maybe I am pesymistic.
In other words I suck at Jaina


landing skillshots is largely a function of experience. you must play a lot to learn to predict which direction players will run in to dodge a blizzard or frost bolt. the thing is, you might pull off a clutch duel once in a while with proper mechanics, but it's rare that it will win you the game. proper decision making, however, wins games all the time.

chosing to take a risky boss right as the enemy team respawns? your team is likely to get aced, the enemy team has a good chance to steal the boss, and your core is practically done for. missed a frost bolt? well that's 400 dmg missed.

the main thing is that physical mechanics are much more objective for new players, whereas map objectives and decision making is far more subjective. when you're not totally confident on where your team should be, there are often multiple possibilities. when you're landing a hook with stitches, well, it's often much clearer what you should or shouldn't have done.
To be is to do-Socrates To do is to be-Sartre Do Be Do Be Do-Sinatra
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
May 18 2015 20:01 GMT
#27
On May 19 2015 01:01 RouaF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 22:11 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.


In short : hots is different from other mobas because it is less micro focused and more macro focused.
Thats why I think its easier for rts players to get into it.


But then again, you can micro to some extent like moving in-between auto's with valla. Not sure if that counts as micro though.
hi
poboxy
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada48 Posts
May 18 2015 22:20 GMT
#28
It may be obvious to you but a lot of people new to Mobas have no idea what a tank is. Nice post though.
Garsecg
Profile Joined September 2014
United States129 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 22:47:14
May 18 2015 22:46 GMT
#29
On May 19 2015 07:20 poboxy wrote:
It may be obvious to you but a lot of people new to Mobas have no idea what a tank is. Nice post though.


Guess they should level up to 30 before going deep in hero league then so they can learn. You know, given that the article is specifically about "success in hero league".
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 22:51:06
May 18 2015 22:50 GMT
#30
On May 19 2015 07:20 poboxy wrote:
It may be obvious to you but a lot of people new to Mobas have no idea what a tank is. Nice post though.

We have a beginner's guide coming soon. This article is meant for players who are familiar with the basics.
poboxy
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada48 Posts
May 18 2015 22:57 GMT
#31
On May 19 2015 07:50 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 07:20 poboxy wrote:
It may be obvious to you but a lot of people new to Mobas have no idea what a tank is. Nice post though.

We have a beginner's guide coming soon. This article is meant for players who are familiar with the basics.



Awesome
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
May 18 2015 23:46 GMT
#32
On May 19 2015 02:55 StayPhrosty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 02:30 Solmyr wrote:
Sadly I am not one of them. I think people that came here from SCII are matched with warcraft/diablo crowd now and think that those guys fail to understant what's this game is all about. I think if you aren't lvl 5-10 and not trolling it extremly easy game to grasp.
But if you miss your skillshots you just aren't good enough on mechanics side. And I am not sure this can be changed much. Or maybe I am pesymistic.
In other words I suck at Jaina


landing skillshots is largely a function of experience. you must play a lot to learn to predict which direction players will run in to dodge a blizzard or frost bolt. the thing is, you might pull off a clutch duel once in a while with proper mechanics, but it's rare that it will win you the game. proper decision making, however, wins games all the time.

chosing to take a risky boss right as the enemy team respawns? your team is likely to get aced, the enemy team has a good chance to steal the boss, and your core is practically done for. missed a frost bolt? well that's 400 dmg missed.

the main thing is that physical mechanics are much more objective for new players, whereas map objectives and decision making is far more subjective. when you're not totally confident on where your team should be, there are often multiple possibilities. when you're landing a hook with stitches, well, it's often much clearer what you should or shouldn't have done.


Exactly, this is why I warn people who play a lot with bots that they will have a big adjustment playing against people. The anticipation needed to land a skillshot has little to do with the mechanical aspect.

Now some heroes do have mechanical aspect, I always felt like I was tying my fingers together trying to jam out combo - rewind - combo on pre-nerf Kerrigan for example.

But in general you aren't attacking stationary targets so you have it's not just a matter of can you aim or not, it's can you anticipate? Of course, that leads to embarrassing skill shots that go in the absolute opposite directly because you guessed wrong (like the Keeper on a penalty kick I suppose).
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
May 19 2015 00:03 GMT
#33
On May 18 2015 22:07 xDaunt wrote:
I definitely think a case can be made that Rehgar would be a good pick for my pop quiz. He is the superior healer, and he does have Blood for Blood. If Uther was unavailable, Rehgar would be the clear second choice. I still do not think that he is the best pick. Uther simply provides more utility -- particularly because this comp has an Illidan. I've had a bunch of games where an Uther+Illidan combo straight up carried the game by themselves. As for Brightwing, she would not be a good pick. She doesn't provide enough burst healing to support a dive comp. Depending upon enemy team comp, you might be able to get away with it, but it just isn't a good idea.

EDIT: And as for the tip about the Boss, I purposefully decided not to expand on when to take the boss. Boss timing is really dependent upon the map. Different considerations apply to taking a boss on Cursed Hollow than on Tomb of the Spider Queen. And there are also special considerations depending upon which heroes you have on your team. A very different calculation applies when you have a Robo-goblin Gazlowe on your team. I felt it would be better not to go too far down that rabbit hole in this article.


In my opinion, Brightwing is by far the best healer for that comp. There are a few reasons for this.

1. You do not have a good Illiden comp. Adding one healer will not make it a good Illidan comp, as you have two high burst/damage dps. Uther alone will not provide the CC/healing to make Illidan shine.

2. Brightwing's AoE knockback ult if timed correctly with meta, and the amount of burst damage available on your team with Jaina/Falstad will win a fight. This is also much easier to land.

3. Rehgar makes your team have a massive lack of CC... Comps with just damage don't tend to work that well.

4. It denies Brightwing to the other team, and she is very strong against Illidan.

This also varies massively with what heroes the other team has, and what map you are playing on.

Also, at the point that your team was picking Illidan, I would be gently suggesting a Tyrande/Tassadar pick to make it a good Illidan comp, instead of letting it get to the point where you don't have a pick to make the comp good. That comp is not very good no matter what you pick.

On a different topic, these are the principles that I follow to get high rated in games (not just HotS).

1. Never say anything that can be taken in a negative way by a teammate while you still feel like you have any chance of winning the game. Always try to keep team chat positive and hopeful. Games are usually lost mentally, not due to gameplay. Once people give up it gets massively harder to win.

2. When giving advice, frame it in terms of a gentle suggestion rather then a command. One example - "Pick Tassadar since he's good with Illidan", turns into, "Tassadar would be good with Illidan".

3. Never give up, never stop being positive, never surrender a game that has any hope of winning.

4. Get very good at the Heroes that you are intending to play. Do not pick a hero that you are not good at if you have any options. Gently make your wishes known in champ select to increase the chance that you are playing a hero that you are good at. You cannot get good at every hero, don't try, pick 3-4 to get very good at.

5. Play heroes that can have a large impact on games. For Heroes, I've found that these heroes are ones that can do a large amount of damage. (Illidan, Zeratul (was mostly prenerfs), It doesn't matter how god tier your heals or your amazing engage is, if your team doesn't have the damage to follow up, or the damage to take objectives.

6. Don't play non-meta heroes. Too many people constitute it as trolling, and will play worse when you pick it. Doesn't matter how good you play murky if the game is effectively 4v5 since someone is annoyed at you "trolling". It also starts games off on negative tones.

7. Don't lose the game for your team. This is stuff like making bad boss calls (getting caught there by other team when your all low), getting caught leading to the other team taking a lot while it is 4v5, etc. It is much easier to lose the game for your team then it is to win it. Not losing the game is more important then making risky plays to try to win it.

8. Never be negative in chat, or say anything that can be taken negative by teammates in chat.

I guess the moral of all this is always try to be a net positive impact on your team and the game.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 19 2015 00:25 GMT
#34
On May 19 2015 09:03 dae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 22:07 xDaunt wrote:
I definitely think a case can be made that Rehgar would be a good pick for my pop quiz. He is the superior healer, and he does have Blood for Blood. If Uther was unavailable, Rehgar would be the clear second choice. I still do not think that he is the best pick. Uther simply provides more utility -- particularly because this comp has an Illidan. I've had a bunch of games where an Uther+Illidan combo straight up carried the game by themselves. As for Brightwing, she would not be a good pick. She doesn't provide enough burst healing to support a dive comp. Depending upon enemy team comp, you might be able to get away with it, but it just isn't a good idea.

EDIT: And as for the tip about the Boss, I purposefully decided not to expand on when to take the boss. Boss timing is really dependent upon the map. Different considerations apply to taking a boss on Cursed Hollow than on Tomb of the Spider Queen. And there are also special considerations depending upon which heroes you have on your team. A very different calculation applies when you have a Robo-goblin Gazlowe on your team. I felt it would be better not to go too far down that rabbit hole in this article.


In my opinion, Brightwing is by far the best healer for that comp. There are a few reasons for this.

1. You do not have a good Illiden comp. Adding one healer will not make it a good Illidan comp, as you have two high burst/damage dps. Uther alone will not provide the CC/healing to make Illidan shine.

2. Brightwing's AoE knockback ult if timed correctly with meta, and the amount of burst damage available on your team with Jaina/Falstad will win a fight. This is also much easier to land.

3. Rehgar makes your team have a massive lack of CC... Comps with just damage don't tend to work that well.

4. It denies Brightwing to the other team, and she is very strong against Illidan.

This also varies massively with what heroes the other team has, and what map you are playing on.

Also, at the point that your team was picking Illidan, I would be gently suggesting a Tyrande/Tassadar pick to make it a good Illidan comp, instead of letting it get to the point where you don't have a pick to make the comp good. That comp is not very good no matter what you pick.


I agree that it's not a great Illidan comp. Still, I'm of the opinion that if you have an Illidan on the team, then you need to make the best pick possible to support him -- otherwise he's just useless. BW is certainly better for supporting the ranged heroes, but Uther isn't exactly useless for that purpose, either. In contrast, I really don't like the BW+Illidan combo. Her lack of burst healing makes it really rough for Illidan. Having something like BW+Tassadar would be really nice, but that's not possible with the current setup. This is purposefully an imperfect hypothetical. But yes, I can see how reasonable minds disagree.
kagamin
Profile Joined September 2010
United States191 Posts
May 19 2015 03:39 GMT
#35
On May 18 2015 20:12 Sponkz wrote:
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!

Not anymore T_T
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
May 19 2015 05:18 GMT
#36
On May 19 2015 05:01 Sponkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 01:01 RouaF wrote:
On May 18 2015 22:11 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.


In short : hots is different from other mobas because it is less micro focused and more macro focused.
Thats why I think its easier for rts players to get into it.


But then again, you can micro to some extent like moving in-between auto's with valla. Not sure if that counts as micro though.

Yes of course this is micro and it is still important, it's just less important in this game than macro play (at least up to a certain level, in "pro" play micro is much likely to make the difference because fewer macro mistakes are made).


DPK
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada487 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 05:30:25
May 19 2015 05:28 GMT
#37
I fail to see what could be considered "macro play" in HotS. This isn't an RTS. You probably mean map awareness and decision making.
Desire.Discipline.Dedication
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
May 19 2015 05:31 GMT
#38
On May 19 2015 02:55 StayPhrosty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 02:30 Solmyr wrote:
Sadly I am not one of them. I think people that came here from SCII are matched with warcraft/diablo crowd now and think that those guys fail to understant what's this game is all about. I think if you aren't lvl 5-10 and not trolling it extremly easy game to grasp.
But if you miss your skillshots you just aren't good enough on mechanics side. And I am not sure this can be changed much. Or maybe I am pesymistic.
In other words I suck at Jaina


landing skillshots is largely a function of experience. you must play a lot to learn to predict which direction players will run in to dodge a blizzard or frost bolt. the thing is, you might pull off a clutch duel once in a while with proper mechanics, but it's rare that it will win you the game. proper decision making, however, wins games all the time.

chosing to take a risky boss right as the enemy team respawns? your team is likely to get aced, the enemy team has a good chance to steal the boss, and your core is practically done for. missed a frost bolt? well that's 400 dmg missed.


Exactly.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3351 Posts
May 19 2015 07:29 GMT
#39
Excellent article thank you! I do a lot of the mistakes you pointed out aha so it s time to improve and apply your advice!
Horang2 fan
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
May 19 2015 08:12 GMT
#40
On May 18 2015 20:40 Markwerf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 20:12 Sponkz wrote:
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!


Really nice guide though, it covers the basics and a little more than that. You have a good solid understanding of how the games will be played out and what things to take into consideration. I do have one minor issue tho.

"AS A GENERAL RULE, DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE BOSS UNLESS MULTIPLE ENEMY HEROES ARE DEAD."

While this is true, you can also "sneak" it. On Blackheart's Bay, if you see the enemy paying and rotating bottom, while your team is at the top side, it is considered an "even" trade if you do boss for the bruiser camp+ship. It can be very hard to determine when this play is supposed to be executed, but that's the irony of the throw pit i guess ^^


Even without the broken Lili answer you can make a valid argument for rehgar or brightwing, which fit better than uther I think.
Uther as solo healer is often a bit little in hero league where having good sustain on your team helps a lot. Players will oftne commit to long fights and many players often don't sustain themselves properly, solo uther has problems here while rehgar or brightwing does not as much.
Rehgar has better burst heal and sustains much more, plus adds a nice blood for blood to nuke a hero. A slightly better choice i'd say. Brightwing also is an option to provide even better sustain and have a bit of splitpushing capability, quite good too depending the map. With so much chase potential and already slow through jaina I don't even think you'd need uther's stun as much here, depending though on what they have to interrupt.

Either way the information for the quiz would be lacking but the answer is definately not clearly Uther here and as such a poor choice of quiz for such an article.

Doesn't take anything away from the rest of the article though which is solid. The general rule about bosses also has plenty of exceptions but as a general rule it isn't bad.

Edit:
One thing I disagree about is the emphasis on not focussing the tank. This is often stated but I don't think it's neccesarily true, if you need to go deeper to reach the backline it's often not even worth the risk even if you could. Besides tanks in this game are not that much tankier than other heroes, and most importantly most do not have things that makes damaging them much less efficient. Sure tanks have a much higher hp to damage ratio and are thus less ideal to target but most don't have anything that let them take reduced damage or heal more efficiently (amplified healing and hardened skin are the big exceptions but until lvl 20 you rarely see those effects). Some tanks aren't bad to target, diablo in this patch for example and many comps even run semi-tanks / bruisers now like tyrael and anub'arak which can be quite fine to focus.
The thing mostly is, if you go slightly deeper to reach their backline, that backline will typically be able to reach you. And their tank will often get in the middle of your backline instead of at the edge as a result, this is often not that ideal. Also holding the trigger on abilities can be good but many abilities in this game are on a very short cooldown and it's often just better to fire it off then to wait for a good oppurtunity to hit their backline.



on the support quiz, I strongly feel that picking Bw (or broken lilli)over Uther and rehgar complements this Team comp just as well, if not better. The problem with Uther in this spot is that you have to choose whom to support during the dive which sometimes isn´t quite as obvious as one might think. Ontop of that you provide no heals for your backline at all and have to enter the danger zone without any sort of escape. So what typically happens against Combo Teams is that Illidan will be CCed, Tyra ignored or dodged and you forced to spend your Divine shield and heal on your self while their Etc/Diablo Zones your backline and enables their team to calmly pick off Illidan. Bw circumvents this by being able to quickly relocate, making him an incredibly hard target to actually hit, healing eveny or by simply seperating the enemy teams tank away from their backline with a well placed wind.
Personally i prefer Uther in conjunction with melees that have more CC then Tyra and Illi because he is such a prime target to ganks, i feel that his best suited role is as a second support to an Etc.

Anyway, your guide is awesome! and I approve 100%


alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 08:21:21
May 19 2015 08:18 GMT
#41
On May 18 2015 22:07 xDaunt wrote:
I definitely think a case can be made that Rehgar would be a good pick for my pop quiz. He is the superior healer, and he does have Blood for Blood. If Uther was unavailable, Rehgar would be the clear second choice. I still do not think that he is the best pick. Uther simply provides more utility -- particularly because this comp has an Illidan. I've had a bunch of games where an Uther+Illidan combo straight up carried the game by themselves. As for Brightwing, she would not be a good pick. She doesn't provide enough burst healing to support a dive comp. Depending upon enemy team comp, you might be able to get away with it, but it just isn't a good idea.

EDIT: And as for the tip about the Boss, I purposefully decided not to expand on when to take the boss. Boss timing is really dependent upon the map. Different considerations apply to taking a boss on Cursed Hollow than on Tomb of the Spider Queen. And there are also special considerations depending upon which heroes you have on your team. A very different calculation applies when you have a Robo-goblin Gazlowe on your team. I felt it would be better not to go too far down that rabbit hole in this article.


shield dust + Protective shield + gust of healing + Double blink heal + Poly on the main DD into iceblock is a shit ton of burst heal. And ontop of that you shouldn´t forget that Bw usually offers more total heal over the course of a game so your team is less likely to enter a TF on low Hp then had they picked uther.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
May 19 2015 09:40 GMT
#42
On May 19 2015 12:39 kagamin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 20:12 Sponkz wrote:
"Pop quiz time. You are the fifth pick on your team. Your teammates have already picked Tyrael, Jaina, Falstad, and Illidan. You clearly should be picking be a support. Who should you pick?"

You pick Li Li, cus broken cloud serpents. I own at these pop quizzes yo 2gud 1337 keke!

Not anymore T_T



It was fun while it lasted <3
hi
Darthsanta13
Profile Joined July 2011
United States564 Posts
May 19 2015 12:38 GMT
#43
This guide was great. I actually am enjoying the team comp discussion a lot, too. The chance to pick multiple people's minds on what works and what doesn't is really valuable to me, as I typically only learn stuff like this through seeing what doesn't work at all in person, which is of course not ideal.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
May 19 2015 12:58 GMT
#44
Brightwing is the best healer atm, thanks to promote xD.
YouGotNothin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States907 Posts
May 19 2015 13:38 GMT
#45
Great guide, I should know a lot of these concepts coming from playing LoL for 4+ years, but HotS really mixes things up and it is nice to learn them again in the reference frame of HotS.
I got nothin'...
NihilisticGod
Profile Joined March 2011
Northern Ireland174 Posts
May 19 2015 14:46 GMT
#46
Blizzard should make you read this before your first HeroLeague game! And a test at the end graded pass or fail.

Thanks for the write up it is a good read.

Too weird to live... too rare to die.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 19 2015 14:54 GMT
#47
If it makes you all feel better, I played a game with a bunch of Rank 1's last night where my team completely threw the game in a five-minute period by continuously breaking my rules regarding stupid deaths.
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
May 19 2015 15:38 GMT
#48
On May 19 2015 23:54 xDaunt wrote:
If it makes you all feel better, I played a game with a bunch of Rank 1's last night where my team completely threw the game in a five-minute period by continuously breaking my rules regarding stupid deaths.

i knew it! you just got carried to your rank! by ppl like me!
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
Twistedsis
Profile Joined May 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 17:03:42
May 19 2015 16:08 GMT
#49
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?


Uther's triple stun combo starts with Hammer of Justice, then Divine Storm (ultimate), and then Hammer of Justice again. Benediction at 16 lets you back to back Hammer of Justice.

The level 1 talent Fists of Justice will help to reduce the cooldown on your Hammer of Justice and the level 7 talent Burden of Guilt will add a slow effect to your Hammer of Justice which can also help you in successfully landing multiple stuns pre-level 16.

Edit: to correct lack of Benediction as key aspect of triple stun.
Twistedsis
Profile Joined May 2015
4 Posts
May 19 2015 16:17 GMT
#50
Outstanding guide! I certainly feel like I have a better understanding of HotS now. I'll be politely suggesting this read often.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 19 2015 16:31 GMT
#51
On May 20 2015 01:08 Twistedsis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?


Uther's triple stun combo starts with Hammer of Justice, then Divine Storm (ultimate), and then Hammer of Justice again. The level 1 talent Fists of Justice will help to reduce the cooldown on your Hammer of Justice and the level 7 talent Burden of Guilt will add a slow effect to your Hammer of Justice which can also help you in successfully landing the triple stun.

The triple stun combo uses benediction at 16. You want the mana regen talent at level 1.
Twistedsis
Profile Joined May 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 16:44:41
May 19 2015 16:42 GMT
#52
On May 20 2015 01:31 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2015 01:08 Twistedsis wrote:
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?


Uther's triple stun combo starts with Hammer of Justice, then Divine Storm (ultimate), and then Hammer of Justice again. The level 1 talent Fists of Justice will help to reduce the cooldown on your Hammer of Justice and the level 7 talent Burden of Guilt will add a slow effect to your Hammer of Justice which can also help you in successfully landing the triple stun.

The triple stun combo uses benediction at 16. You want the mana regen talent at level 1.


Yes, sorry. I was going to edit my post as I absently left this key part out, but you've covered it. Benediction gives you back to back Hammer of Justice Stuns.

But I still like Fists of Justice at 1. I have little probs sustaining mana with Hammer of the Lightbringer at 4.
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
May 19 2015 17:27 GMT
#53
On May 20 2015 01:42 Twistedsis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2015 01:31 xDaunt wrote:
On May 20 2015 01:08 Twistedsis wrote:
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?


Uther's triple stun combo starts with Hammer of Justice, then Divine Storm (ultimate), and then Hammer of Justice again. The level 1 talent Fists of Justice will help to reduce the cooldown on your Hammer of Justice and the level 7 talent Burden of Guilt will add a slow effect to your Hammer of Justice which can also help you in successfully landing the triple stun.

The triple stun combo uses benediction at 16. You want the mana regen talent at level 1.


Yes, sorry. I was going to edit my post as I absently left this key part out, but you've covered it. Benediction gives you back to back Hammer of Justice Stuns.

But I still like Fists of Justice at 1. I have little probs sustaining mana with Hammer of the Lightbringer at 4.

but you want prot. shield at 4
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 19 2015 19:03 GMT
#54
On May 20 2015 02:27 Hryul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2015 01:42 Twistedsis wrote:
On May 20 2015 01:31 xDaunt wrote:
On May 20 2015 01:08 Twistedsis wrote:
On May 18 2015 15:49 Random_0 wrote:
What is Uther's triple stun combo? You can Hammer of Justice someone and then Divine Storm then, but what's the third stun?


Uther's triple stun combo starts with Hammer of Justice, then Divine Storm (ultimate), and then Hammer of Justice again. The level 1 talent Fists of Justice will help to reduce the cooldown on your Hammer of Justice and the level 7 talent Burden of Guilt will add a slow effect to your Hammer of Justice which can also help you in successfully landing the triple stun.

The triple stun combo uses benediction at 16. You want the mana regen talent at level 1.


Yes, sorry. I was going to edit my post as I absently left this key part out, but you've covered it. Benediction gives you back to back Hammer of Justice Stuns.

But I still like Fists of Justice at 1. I have little probs sustaining mana with Hammer of the Lightbringer at 4.

but you want prot. shield at 4

^^ This. Uther's sustained healing is a little suspect, so you really need the shield at 4.
Twistedsis
Profile Joined May 2015
4 Posts
May 19 2015 19:57 GMT
#55
I'll try a bunch of quick matches using Conjurer's Pursuit and Protective Shield tonight. I'm going to need some practice with this less aggressive and more healing friendly play style. Thanks for the advice Hryul and xDaunt.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44116 Posts
May 19 2015 21:41 GMT
#56
I'll be playing HotS a lot this summer, and this guide is perfectly structured for where I'm at in the game right now. Thanks for this
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-20 11:29:24
May 20 2015 10:56 GMT
#57
On May 20 2015 04:57 Twistedsis wrote:
I'll try a bunch of quick matches using Conjurer's Pursuit and Protective Shield tonight. I'm going to need some practice with this less aggressive and more healing friendly play style. Thanks for the advice Hryul and xDaunt.

one thing ahead: i'm just r15 and nowhere near the skill of xDaunt, but I'll write a bit about my playstyle.

for lower levels I actually found Uther to be underwhelming and I prefer Li Li or Malf. The reason is that low lvl players tend to have worse focus fire and spread their damage more. this leads to longer fights and more equally distributed damage among the players. here uther's burst heal doesn't shine so much because it can happen that you heal player A (at half health) and people change target to player B who also had half health. most likely my Q is on CD and the W (and prot shield) are weaker than Q.
On the other side, Li Li and Malf (and BW, but she is delicate for other reasons) distribute their healing more equally. Malf also helps people with shit mana management. (vallas are the usual suspects here)

On higher levels this changes: people tend to focus one guy, usually the melee assassin (if there is one [diving]), so you have to keep this one guy onto whom they dump all their damage alive. This also reflects on my playstyle and why I don't like "on attack" based abilites: I usually don't attack because I know as soon as I enter the frontlines, everyone will come after me. So I stay between the melees and the ranged and try (a) heal the frontliners and (b) intercept diving enemys on my ranged DDs with hammer.
The exception is when the team is really good coordinated and i run in to stun the designated target.
I realize that this may not be the optimal way, but I rather cast a divine shield on illidan than on me.

If I want to be more aggressive I like Rehgar more, mainly b/c of feral lunge for chasing and the immediate "mount" for escape.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
May 21 2015 01:08 GMT
#58
I thought an advance guide will be more detailed.... like for example for certain maps how many seconds it takes for a merc camp to arrive uninterrupted to an enemy keep, and how many seconds it takes if XXX waves block them.

Also, like how much can XXX camp siege a base and how long will it take assuming there is no interruptions. Kinda expected more for a teamliquid article since i saw the amazing detailed numbers for SC2 strategies
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-21 01:35:42
May 21 2015 01:32 GMT
#59
This is an advanced Hero League guide, not an advanced general gameplay one. The reason those topics are mentioned is because they are something very very important, and it is crucial for a Hero League player to have a general idea of it, but it is not meant to be super detailed on those topics, because that would be out of the scope of what this guide intends to cover.

That being said we have been working on a couple of guides for some time that will cover the general gameplay. However, even though they are long and cover things at detail, at the moment we aren't planning on talking about seconds. We had that discussion a couple of months ago and concluded that knowing the exact number isn't of much value for the players. Is it really necessary to say that the golem takes x number of seconds to get to a fort, instead of simply saying that, for example, on cursed hollow unless you are right beside the boss it is simply better to push yourself because the golem would mostly make you miss your tribute instead of actually helping you. Is knowing the exact number of seconds necessary?

We are open to hearing your reasoning about it though, as we want to make our guides as useful and advanced as we can.
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 21 2015 02:05 GMT
#60
Cool guide
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
May 21 2015 16:02 GMT
#61
On May 21 2015 10:32 [Phantom] wrote:
This is an advanced Hero League guide, not an advanced general gameplay one. The reason those topics are mentioned is because they are something very very important, and it is crucial for a Hero League player to have a general idea of it, but it is not meant to be super detailed on those topics, because that would be out of the scope of what this guide intends to cover.

That being said we have been working on a couple of guides for some time that will cover the general gameplay. However, even though they are long and cover things at detail, at the moment we aren't planning on talking about seconds. We had that discussion a couple of months ago and concluded that knowing the exact number isn't of much value for the players. Is it really necessary to say that the golem takes x number of seconds to get to a fort, instead of simply saying that, for example, on cursed hollow unless you are right beside the boss it is simply better to push yourself because the golem would mostly make you miss your tribute instead of actually helping you. Is knowing the exact number of seconds necessary?

We are open to hearing your reasoning about it though, as we want to make our guides as useful and advanced as we can.



I personally like to know exact timings so you can 'time' when to take the spawns so that it lines up with certain events. If you can get minions at the enemy doorstep the moment it an event takes place wouldnt that be awesome? like for example taking siege minion at XXX timing earlier so that you align it with the random summon spawn on the map with the crows.

I feel this game will be very heavily timing based in the future because of the nature of the gameplay? But its just me and i could be very wrong
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 21 2015 16:15 GMT
#62
On May 22 2015 01:02 Kingsky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2015 10:32 [Phantom] wrote:
This is an advanced Hero League guide, not an advanced general gameplay one. The reason those topics are mentioned is because they are something very very important, and it is crucial for a Hero League player to have a general idea of it, but it is not meant to be super detailed on those topics, because that would be out of the scope of what this guide intends to cover.

That being said we have been working on a couple of guides for some time that will cover the general gameplay. However, even though they are long and cover things at detail, at the moment we aren't planning on talking about seconds. We had that discussion a couple of months ago and concluded that knowing the exact number isn't of much value for the players. Is it really necessary to say that the golem takes x number of seconds to get to a fort, instead of simply saying that, for example, on cursed hollow unless you are right beside the boss it is simply better to push yourself because the golem would mostly make you miss your tribute instead of actually helping you. Is knowing the exact number of seconds necessary?

We are open to hearing your reasoning about it though, as we want to make our guides as useful and advanced as we can.



I personally like to know exact timings so you can 'time' when to take the spawns so that it lines up with certain events. If you can get minions at the enemy doorstep the moment it an event takes place wouldnt that be awesome? like for example taking siege minion at XXX timing earlier so that you align it with the random summon spawn on the map with the crows.

I feel this game will be very heavily timing based in the future because of the nature of the gameplay? But its just me and i could be very wrong


Those particular timings are discussed in our map guides. You have to keep in mind that "precise" timings are generally far less meaningful in HotS than in a game like SC2. Creep wave mechanics, hero variability, and other factors create too many random variables that do not allow for time to be accounted for so precisely.
Shyndashu
Profile Joined September 2011
United States136 Posts
May 21 2015 19:35 GMT
#63
I would agree with this guide... but hero leagues a joke right now. I got to rank 1 by randoming the whole way.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
May 21 2015 20:59 GMT
#64
seeing how the random pick system works, thats not surprising.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
May 21 2015 21:02 GMT
#65
On May 22 2015 04:35 Shyndashu wrote:
I would agree with this guide... but hero leagues a joke right now. I got to rank 1 by randoming the whole way.


Wut rly? How did your teammates react?
Holloworb
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway345 Posts
May 21 2015 23:42 GMT
#66
Awesome article. Unfortunatly I haven't got enough time on my hands to be able to reach the upper levels of play, but with guides like these casuals like me can enjoy the game more easily too. It's more fun to play if you're making informed desicions. I like the Hots content coming out on TL, keep it flowing

I follow the principle of playing only a few heroes and try to get decent with them, since it would be impossible for me to get good at 3-4 heroes of each role.
HewTheTitan
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada331 Posts
May 25 2015 09:23 GMT
#67
Do not chase wounded enemy heroes when the teamfight is not over. Little is more embarrassing than a player who chases a wounded hero, while the rest of his team gets slaughtered in the still-raging teamfight. Make sure that your team will control the field at the end of a teamfight before chasing wounded heroes.


This has been very helpful actually.
closer2
Profile Joined April 2015
1 Post
May 26 2015 23:32 GMT
#68
fantastic guide, good general knowledge stated in a clear and simple way, luv it
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
May 27 2015 19:30 GMT
#69
On May 22 2015 06:02 Chairman Ray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2015 04:35 Shyndashu wrote:
I would agree with this guide... but hero leagues a joke right now. I got to rank 1 by randoming the whole way.


Wut rly? How did your teammates react?


He's just *so* 1337 that he can play random up to tourney level. He only has to choose a character to be pro.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
AnikiBilly
Profile Joined May 2015
4 Posts
May 28 2015 10:51 GMT
#70
Nice article
snOrMoL
Profile Joined November 2014
Netherlands2 Posts
May 29 2015 11:34 GMT
#71
Extremely well written, thanks for making this!
Heroes of The Storm!
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8001 Posts
May 29 2015 18:05 GMT
#72
And then there are some who are stuck in the amazingly toxic and "wtf" moments of quick match, because we aren't level 30 yet
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
May 29 2015 19:19 GMT
#73
On the bright side (dark?) those don't actually go away when you play Hero League.

As my friend describes it: Hero League is just Quick Match with angrier people.
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8001 Posts
May 29 2015 20:20 GMT
#74
On May 30 2015 04:19 Wuster wrote:
On the bright side (dark?) those don't actually go away when you play Hero League.

As my friend describes it: Hero League is just Quick Match with angrier people.


Then i guess i'll have to get a team ^^
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
DrakanSilva
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Chile932 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-22 20:14:28
June 22 2015 20:13 GMT
#75
This is an awesome write up.

Thank you so much, I'm starting to play now in China and it's really hard because all the UI is in Chinese. I didn't touched HotS before and it's awesome, currently playing with kerrigan and i'm crazy to get to lvl 30 soon, but i still need to learn about every hero... o damn it's hard but is beautiful at the same time.

Now i'm at lvl 12 and I start feel that is getting a little harder, I have no idea how are the America, Europe, Asia servers compared to China but between lvl 0 and 9 there were some really fun matches with kerrigan giving me the chance to wipe out entire teams lol.

I really want to start using uther, but firstly I want to die A LOT with kerrigan to see every skill of the other heroes hehe... Damn nova I hate her.

There isn't a "Observer Ward" in this game right ? You just CAN'T see nova right ?

Thanks a lot, it was an awesome read.

In the beginning there was nothing... and then exploded
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
June 22 2015 20:47 GMT
#76
There is no ward but just as in sc2 cloaked heroes aren't completely invisible, they have a shimmer or distortion. Try to look for it and when you see it you can use an AoE ability to decloak them.
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
StillRooney
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden106 Posts
June 25 2015 13:08 GMT
#77
On June 23 2015 05:13 DrakanSilva wrote:
This is an awesome write up.

Thank you so much, I'm starting to play now in China and it's really hard because all the UI is in Chinese. I didn't touched HotS before and it's awesome, currently playing with kerrigan and i'm crazy to get to lvl 30 soon, but i still need to learn about every hero... o damn it's hard but is beautiful at the same time.

Now i'm at lvl 12 and I start feel that is getting a little harder, I have no idea how are the America, Europe, Asia servers compared to China but between lvl 0 and 9 there were some really fun matches with kerrigan giving me the chance to wipe out entire teams lol.

I really want to start using uther, but firstly I want to die A LOT with kerrigan to see every skill of the other heroes hehe... Damn nova I hate her.

There isn't a "Observer Ward" in this game right ? You just CAN'T see nova right ?

Thanks a lot, it was an awesome read.


Some skills reveal hidden heroes in the vicinity (like Tassar's D ability). Also, if you want to look into the skills of other heroes, go to them in the shop and press the "Try" button and experiment away
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
September 03 2015 13:57 GMT
#78
Good article for its time but it needs to be updated regularly since the meta changes so often right now.
<3 Moonbattles
eeZe
Profile Joined April 2011
United States54 Posts
September 10 2015 23:45 GMT
#79
On May 19 2015 01:01 RouaF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2015 22:11 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.


In short : hots is different from other mobas because it is less micro focused and more macro focused.
Thats why I think its easier for rts players to get into it.


I think this statement is not true at all, this game is highly micro focused. That said my previous experience in moba's is limited to DOTA and DOTA 2.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
September 12 2015 05:27 GMT
#80
On September 11 2015 08:45 eeZe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 01:01 RouaF wrote:
On May 18 2015 22:11 xDaunt wrote:
On May 18 2015 20:32 Solmyr wrote:
I am new to MOBAs, not sure will I stay in HOTS.

Do you play those games with your brain or with your eyes and hands ?

After reading this guide you can assume that you should play the game with your brain - decission making, picks, learning the heroes, counter picking. We can call it knowledge about game and meta.

But one of the first sentences looks like this :
"Let me just get this out of the way and state the obvious: you need to be able to control your heroes confidently and precisely to have any hope of being any good at HotS."

I my opinion you don't do it with your brain but with your hands-eye coordination. If you suck at this than all the knowledge is more or less pointless. Becouse you just can't execute what you want.

Am I right ?

So I wonder about how much you can really improve in this game and if you really doing this by knowing more than your opponents?

It's all relative, really. If you come from a background where you have played a bunch of games that are incredibly rigorous from a mechanical perspective (like StarCraft), HotS should be a walk in the park. Being one of those people, I would say that HotS is more about proper decision making than mechanics. People who do not have that background may have a different perspective.


In short : hots is different from other mobas because it is less micro focused and more macro focused.
Thats why I think its easier for rts players to get into it.


I think this statement is not true at all, this game is highly micro focused. That said my previous experience in moba's is limited to DOTA and DOTA 2.


I think in general, the mechanical skill needed to jump into a game and competently play a hero is significantly easier than in Dota 2 or LoL. There are of course exceptions like Vikings, Illidan, or Abathur that have huge skill curves, but for the most part, it's pretty easy to just pick a hero and play competently against real opponents. The biggest difference that I notice between the games is that decision making in Heroes goes at hyper speed relative to Dota and LoL; objectives are popping up every 3-5 minutes, and merc camps and rotations add heavily to how much players have to weigh in when making decisions. Good players literally have zero downtime, and are always on the way to objectives or doing them already.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
September 12 2015 08:23 GMT
#81
So none of these are actually basics....and none of is actually useful for new players, good try though
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
September 12 2015 16:42 GMT
#82
On September 12 2015 17:23 LongShot27 wrote:
So none of these are actually basics....and none of is actually useful for new players, good try though


HERO LEAGUE 101
THE FUNDAMENTALS OF
HIGHER LEVEL HEROES PLAY


Good try though.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
September 12 2015 17:01 GMT
#83
On September 13 2015 01:42 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2015 17:23 LongShot27 wrote:
So none of these are actually basics....and none of is actually useful for new players, good try though


HERO LEAGUE 101
THE FUNDAMENTALS OF
HIGHER LEVEL HEROES PLAY


Good try though.


Sure aren't any fundamentals in there
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 12 2015 17:22 GMT
#84
On September 13 2015 02:01 LongShot27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2015 01:42 SC2John wrote:
On September 12 2015 17:23 LongShot27 wrote:
So none of these are actually basics....and none of is actually useful for new players, good try though


HERO LEAGUE 101
THE FUNDAMENTALS OF
HIGHER LEVEL HEROES PLAY


Good try though.


Sure aren't any fundamentals in there

You're missing the key part of the phrase: the fundamental of higher level play. I wrote this guide for people who are already aware of the basics of HotS play. The stated purpose and targeted audience are right in the intro. We have a newbie guide for those who are not ready for what this guide offers.

Also, version 2 of this guide is coming shortly. I've brought it current to the meta and added a new section titled "The Art of the Carry."
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-12 19:47:32
September 12 2015 19:46 GMT
#85
On September 12 2015 17:23 LongShot27 wrote:
So none of these are actually basics....and none of is actually useful for new players, good try though


I can explain basics real quick to you


QWER, use your mouse and click things that move on your screen. When the green bar above your head disappears, you die. Stay out of red and purple circles.
hi
Attakijing
Profile Joined June 2011
United States693 Posts
September 20 2015 17:45 GMT
#86
Are the lost vikings still overpowered as said in the OP?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 20 2015 19:53 GMT
#87
On September 21 2015 02:45 Attakijing wrote:
Are the lost vikings still overpowered as said in the OP?

No.
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
September 21 2015 09:56 GMT
#88
On September 21 2015 04:53 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2015 02:45 Attakijing wrote:
Are the lost vikings still overpowered as said in the OP?

No.


It's still very powerful in the right hands. In HL before ranks 10, or maybe to 15, people just can't play against them. On Garden map or Cursed hollow they get so much exp it's almost unplayable (again, considering your team won't hunt them enough). In HL I never lost when a teammate had them, and never won against them.

BTW great guide, I didn't get much from it reading it yesterday (I'm rank 8 now) but it's an awesome read. And even at that level people still do most of the mistakes you listed.
Also, I would had: don't be a hero / don't over compensate things. It's the same as don't defend with 2 heroes vs 4 on a fort as you'll lose it and you'll get 2 deaths. But it's not the HOW that matters, it's the WHY. "You were all dead so I had to defend this."
I main Nova so I know what it is to not help a dying mate chased by 3 angry opponents because it'd be 2 deaths for us instead of just 1. It's not because you're near a mate who's about to die that you have to suicide for him.
Everyone wants to be the hero, the team's champion. But nothing else matters than the team. And in the end it's Nova who's the team champion, period.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
September 21 2015 14:24 GMT
#89
This is probably the best line:

And for those wondering, your reward for getting to Rank 1 is the privilege of being forced by Blizzard’s matchmaker to carry Rank 40s in game after game after game. Enjoy.

Not rank 1, but high enough to still say that this happens in all ranks. I just don't understand.
Life?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
September 21 2015 15:16 GMT
#90
On September 21 2015 23:24 ShoCkeyy wrote:
This is probably the best line:

And for those wondering, your reward for getting to Rank 1 is the privilege of being forced by Blizzard’s matchmaker to carry Rank 40s in game after game after game. Enjoy.

Not rank 1, but high enough to still say that this happens in all ranks. I just don't understand.

This actually has gotten better since changes to matchmaking were made. I rarely see anyone on my team below rank 10 anymore, and usually they're at rank 1 or close to it. I actually took the line out of the new version of the hero league guide (coming soon).

That said, there is still a huge range of player skill at rank 1. Some rank 1 players routinely make the kinds of catastrophic errors listed in the guide. The only thing that getting to rank 1 seems to mean is that you might not be terrible.
d07.RiV
Profile Joined March 2013
Russian Federation50 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 16:02:35
September 30 2015 16:02 GMT
#91
On September 22 2015 00:16 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2015 23:24 ShoCkeyy wrote:
This is probably the best line:

And for those wondering, your reward for getting to Rank 1 is the privilege of being forced by Blizzard’s matchmaker to carry Rank 40s in game after game after game. Enjoy.

Not rank 1, but high enough to still say that this happens in all ranks. I just don't understand.

This actually has gotten better since changes to matchmaking were made. I rarely see anyone on my team below rank 10 anymore, and usually they're at rank 1 or close to it. I actually took the line out of the new version of the hero league guide (coming soon).

That said, there is still a huge range of player skill at rank 1. Some rank 1 players routinely make the kinds of catastrophic errors listed in the guide. The only thing that getting to rank 1 seems to mean is that you might not be terrible.


I think its because they made bonus points much more generous after the update, so players that would previously be stuck in lower ranks can now rank up more easily. So its quite possible that the matchmaking wasn't changed, you're still playing against the same range of players, its just that their rank that changed.

I also have a question. How many solo players can actually hold rank 1 without ever getting demoted? From what I can tell, if you stay around 50% winrate (which is where it should be if matchmaking is working correctly), then you can still eventually get demoted after a loss streak, so only players that are consistently matched against weaker opponents should be able to stay there forever - which should only happen to the very top of the ladder. Or am I missing something here?

I'm aware that regaining rank 1 takes like 1-2 games due to bonus points, though.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
September 30 2015 16:04 GMT
#92
Hero League 101: The fundamentals of high level heroes play has been updated to v2!

Back in May, TeamLiquid released Hero League 101 by xDaunt. Thanks to its in-depth analysis and high-level advice it rapidly became our most famous guide. While the topic it covers is pretty general, we decided to take a second look to it and make it even better. The guide has now been updated and a new section has been added: "The Art of the Carry"
There is the common misconception that a single player is unable to Carry a game in Heroes of the Storm, but time and time again pros and personalities have made it to rank 1 playing solo, so there must be more. Join us as we unravel the secrets of Carrying in Heroes of the Storm and the way it works, which is different from other MOBAs.

We hope you enjoy it, it is pretty long but it's worth every second. The guide covers every topic you can think about in Hero League. From Drafting and Counter Picking, to timings, decision making and map awareness. Don't forget to share it with the rest of your friends if you like it!
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
EvilsPresley
Profile Joined December 2014
France132 Posts
September 30 2015 22:05 GMT
#93
Talking about counter picks to Illidan without mentioning Muradin and reverberation... tsssss :-)

Another note: I'm a huge vikings fan, and I usually split them from start (see korean matches if you think Vortix is right not to split from level 1), and there is something you must realize against them: most viking players will split them according to their shortcut button: Olaf (1) top, Baelog (2) mid and Erik (3) bot. Just put a good burst on bot to kill Erik and you'll be painfull to deal with as TLV. Sonya is very hard to handle as example, as she will burst Erik down or destroy towers very easily.
Rogue | Maru
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 30 2015 22:59 GMT
#94
Really depends on the enemy team composition. With so many tanks and Melee assassins being used, you can easily split your Vikings and make full use of Vikings Bribery. It also allows your team mates to leave lanes.
I usually keep Olaf and Baelog together and have Eric help out and scout. Usually you gain nothing from splitting them more. Especially if you face something like Zagara, who will kill your concentration with constant bullying.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
October 01 2015 14:53 GMT
#95
On May 18 2015 20:40 Markwerf wrote:
Edit:
One thing I disagree about is the emphasis on not focussing the tank. This is often stated but I don't think it's neccesarily true, if you need to go deeper to reach the backline it's often not even worth the risk even if you could. Besides tanks in this game are not that much tankier than other heroes, and most importantly most do not have things that makes damaging them much less efficient. Sure tanks have a much higher hp to damage ratio and are thus less ideal to target but most don't have anything that let them take reduced damage or heal more efficiently (amplified healing and hardened skin are the big exceptions but until lvl 20 you rarely see those effects). Some tanks aren't bad to target, diablo in this patch for example and many comps even run semi-tanks / bruisers now like tyrael and anub'arak which can be quite fine to focus.
The thing mostly is, if you go slightly deeper to reach their backline, that backline will typically be able to reach you. And their tank will often get in the middle of your backline instead of at the edge as a result, this is often not that ideal. Also holding the trigger on abilities can be good but many abilities in this game are on a very short cooldown and it's often just better to fire it off then to wait for a good oppurtunity to hit their backline.


Sadly this hasn't been commented on by anyone of higher skill than me and I'd love to have more insight on that.

In LoL the AD carries usually had a lot of life steal that allowed them to sustain themselves against the meager damage coming from tanks and the main worry were enemy bruisers, but in Heroes you usually don't have that and a lot of the tanks actually do quite a bit of damage if you don't dodge them constantly and it's not unusual to run into 2-tank compositions in solo queue. That means if I try to reach the backline I'm usually getting punched by the tanks while also being in range of the enemy damage dealers while also getting hit by the tanks CC, which usually results in me dying a quick death. If I focus the tanks first, especially as a tank-killer like Valla or Raynor with Giant Killer, then I can dispose of them fairly quickly and then deal with the enemy backline in a more even match.

I can see the point for burst damage dealers or mages in general that are completely cooldown based. Those can dodge in and out of range, get their burst off and then pull back to not get hit, though even then a tank like Arthas can disrupt the whole "get out of range after blowing the cooldowns" thing and get you locked in a position where you get blown up by the combined firepower of all 5 opponents. However, for auto-attack heroes, I simply don't see staying in range of the enemy damage as a viable strategy as long as you are getting pummeled by tanks. That means I always stay behind all my allies and simply kill whatever is in range instead of moving in range of whatever I might want to kill first.

Essentially, I'm more successful in rolling up the enemy team from the front instead of the back.

Of course this ignores the situations where I can flank a bit without getting in range of the whole enemy team, though those situations are only available in few of the team fights.

So what is the best way to approach it, especially in regards to the different enemy bruisers and tanks?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 01 2015 15:26 GMT
#96
This really shouldn't be called 101; it's more like a 202 level. That'd simply be more accurate.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-02 14:13:03
October 02 2015 14:08 GMT
#97
On October 01 2015 01:04 [Phantom] wrote:
Hero League 101: The fundamentals of high level heroes play has been updated to v2!

Back in May, TeamLiquid released Hero League 101 by xDaunt. Thanks to its in-depth analysis and high-level advice it rapidly became our most famous guide. While the topic it covers is pretty general, we decided to take a second look to it and make it even better. The guide has now been updated and a new section has been added: "The Art of the Carry"
There is the common misconception that a single player is unable to Carry a game in Heroes of the Storm, but time and time again pros and personalities have made it to rank 1 playing solo, so there must be more. Join us as we unravel the secrets of Carrying in Heroes of the Storm and the way it works, which is different from other MOBAs.

We hope you enjoy it, it is pretty long but it's worth every second. The guide covers every topic you can think about in Hero League. From Drafting and Counter Picking, to timings, decision making and map awareness. Don't forget to share it with the rest of your friends if you like it!


Hi, thanks for sharing. It's very interesting. I wish it had more examples about the carry section. I mean, as a Nova main I win a lot (I'm low rank, around 8-12 at the moment) because roaming allows me to have a great map awareness and to assist my friends. I think it's part of the carry.
But with other heroes, I never seem to be able to leave my lane or to roam. Is it about anticipation ? Like, "I'm gonna leave my lane now because a fight/gank MIGHT occur at this place, at the worst I can go back to my lane with just a little exp lost" ?
Like today I played one pretty good Nazeebo, lots of people caught in the zombie lasso, lots of damage (more than our Kael Thas) but we lost mostly because everyone love to hit johanna so much instead of the other guys. The 2 following games I was Nova and we won by a large margin.
What could Nazeebo/Zagara do to carry his team ?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 03 2015 00:00 GMT
#98
Proper roaming is all about anticipation. You need to know where the over extensions are likely to occur, where they can be punished, and what the enemy heroes are likely doing at the same time. You can roam with any hero. However, the heroes with cc need to initiate.
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
October 03 2015 13:32 GMT
#99
I read this guide and got to rank 1 <3

I still need to work on a lot of things but consistent decision making will win you games in the long run.
Official Entusman #21
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
October 05 2015 14:30 GMT
#100
On October 03 2015 09:00 xDaunt wrote:
Proper roaming is all about anticipation. You need to know where the over extensions are likely to occur, where they can be punished, and what the enemy heroes are likely doing at the same time. You can roam with any hero. However, the heroes with cc need to initiate.


Ok thanks a lot for clarifying that. It means I have 2 things to improve right now (except reflexes and game experience which you never finish improving):
- being able to leave my lane even when I'm not Nova / BW to do "carry actions".
- being able to counterpick, which means I need to master a lot more other heroes. I've really mained Nova to the point I cannot play any other hero well enough in comparison.

Maybe there's a "must-have" list of heroes to play HL competitivetly below rank 10 ? I never liked Uther or Lili for example but in today's meta they feel like the best supports. I also feel sorry for the people who, like me, master mostly old warriors like ETC / Diablo / Stitches (they'll be resurected by next patch though).
Or maybe there's a good "counterpickers" list ? Like always have a Muradin, an Uther a Tyrael or a Tyrande ?
Tenks
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3104 Posts
October 05 2015 14:45 GMT
#101
IMO Malfurion is the best pub support. Johanna is also pretty stupid easy to play. She's getting nerfed next patch but not to her actual team fight kit.
Wat
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 05 2015 23:19 GMT
#102
For the most part, I would not worry too much about "must have" heroes. The only hero who really falls into that category right now is Uther, and that's because he is just so much better than the other supports. As long as you have good options (ie you're not reliant on trash tier heroes) for the other roles that you can play well, you'll be fine from a hero roster perspective.
SeCReTT
Profile Joined November 2015
31 Posts
November 26 2015 06:19 GMT
#103
helped me ALOT ! thanks ! im new to the game and currently lvl 20 but im sure once i am able to play rank ill do great! will start working on all the concepts carefully
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
November 27 2015 09:39 GMT
#104
For weeks people didn't dare to post messages in this thread because it had 101 replies and that was beautiful. You just broke that, and our hearts in the meantime. That's sad.


helped me ALOT ! thanks ! im new to the game and currently lvl 20 but im sure once i am able to play rank ill do great! will start working on all the concepts carefully


Just try to not get frustrated by players who don't understand the game as much as you do. As long as you play better than the others, you'll keep up climbing, even if there are trash games (people who disconnect, who feed, who play poorly and insult...). Keep improving and you'll keep climbing. This guide helped me get to rank 12 to 3. Now I'm aiming for rank 1.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
November 27 2015 14:29 GMT
#105
If you can’t pull off Uther’s triple stun combo at will

Sry if this has been asked but what is uthers triple stun combo?
Funq
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands77 Posts
November 27 2015 14:40 GMT
#106
On November 27 2015 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
Show nested quote +
If you can’t pull off Uther’s triple stun combo at will

Sry if this has been asked but what is uthers triple stun combo?


I believe it's Benediction into double Hammer of Justice into Divine Storm. Maybe the 2nd Hammer comes after Divine Storm, not sure.
I go to 11
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 27 2015 18:52 GMT
#107
On November 27 2015 23:40 Funq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2015 23:29 Foxxan wrote:
If you can’t pull off Uther’s triple stun combo at will

Sry if this has been asked but what is uthers triple stun combo?


I believe it's Benediction into double Hammer of Justice into Divine Storm. Maybe the 2nd Hammer comes after Divine Storm, not sure.

It's just locking down someone with two hammers (through benediction) and divine storm. It's a maneuver that has fallen out of favor since beta following the nerfs to divine storm and buffs to divine shield.
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
November 30 2015 19:57 GMT
#108
It still works against illidan comps.... and that's basically it.
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
February 05 2016 14:24 GMT
#109
I've finally reached rank 1 on my main account ! :-)

Again, thanks for this guide, it really helped me improve a lot. Nova and Thrall for the win!
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 05 2016 19:13 GMT
#110
On February 05 2016 23:24 Leolio wrote:
I've finally reached rank 1 on my main account ! :-)

Again, thanks for this guide, it really helped me improve a lot. Nova and Thrall for the win!

Congratulations!

But I gotta ask: did you seriously reach Rank 1 relying on the new Nova? If so, how are you playing her?
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-08 13:32:31
February 08 2016 09:24 GMT
#111
Thank you, you played a bigt role in this by advicing us to play Thrall. I hated him before I used your build and now he's my go-to if I'm in the 1st to 3rd pick slots.

About Nova, I can't say I played a lot of games since patch, but I still pick her the way I did before (20% of the time roughly), in 4th or 5th picks, on good maps (dragon,spider,pirate) and/or vs 3 squishies.

About the BO (I didn't mention terrible talents, or most snipe talents as it's not a reliable way to play imo):
1. picked > Tactical espionage > for mana regen. Now I tp for mana once or twice per game so it's a great improvement. This is the "selfish Nova" talent.
1. good too > Longshot > you'll use pinning shot a lot, giving it a good range is useful. This is the "teamfriendly Nova" talent as it's way better for teamfights.
4. picked > rapid projection > lower CD on clone is only useful if you go Lethal Decoy at 16 but the mana cost reduction makes it the best talent here. This tier is garbage so at least the mana reduction is kinda ok.
7. picked > one in the chamber > you use your spells a lot more than before, snipe has a lowered CD, 2 pinning shots at lvl 13, other talents allow CD reductions on clone, snipe. And thanks to the new display for critical you can notice when you use an ability and when you get a critical AA (before it was hard to tell with Nova).
7. good > AA Shells > but it has less damage for sure, just makes your burst shorter. Bad trade if you want to be useful in teamfights, which the new Nova does pretty well.
7. average > Snipe master > no snipe on mercs and minions anymore so it's a stupid talent. But it does a lot of damage if you can even get 3 or 4 stacks.
10. picked > precision strike > don't make me talk about the nuke, it could take hours. I love it.
10. good > triple tap > nothing changed here, but the fact your burst is less efficient and that you go to teamfights more makes this talent a little better than before.
13. picked > double tap > 2 pinning shots is good with one in the chamber. Then, with crippling shot it's awesome.
16. picked > crippling shot > this was my go-to even before the patch. Making an enemy vulnerable is always good, and having 2 charges of it makes you as efficient as Tyrande. You'll have 2 shots, 2 critical AA and 2 vulnerabilities, but a 12 secs CD.
16. good > Lethal decoy. It has been buffed (40% damage instead of 25% before) and it's always effective. But crippling shot is way better imo.
20. picked > Precision barrage > a second nuke, yay ! Before that I would go Bolt but it's over.
20. good > Rewind > still very usefull, even more with One in the Chamber. I just feel that cycling through all your CSs once is risky enough, attemping it twice is suicide.
20. good > Fast reload > even better now that you actually help in teamfights.
20. WTF > Ghost protocol > worse escape than bolt, worse "engage" than bolt, less safety as you still take damage and die like a ghost. I'm curious to see if it can be used to burst someone while staying cloaked, or mid-combo for example. But man, 2 nukes!

I feel they did a good work in removing the all-in/OP talents (Gathering Power, 4 clones...) and in making pinning shot good. They also made Nova less team dependent by making her more team friendly which is interesting.
But they failed in making her more diverse. She still has 1 build, not more. The popular build on reddit and heroesfire is all pinning shots talents (longshot, double tap, crippling shot), nukes at 10 and 20 and rapid projection at 4.

edit: just played another one as Nova, and the numbers were quite nice, even though Jaina was a bit underwhelming:
At level 16 with double crippling shot we melted Chen (who wrecked us until then). He wasn't expecting double vulnerability so he died fast, and so did Anub. We were behind all game and at 16 we crushed them.
My friend was Diablo.
[image loading]
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
March 16 2016 16:07 GMT
#112
One thing is pretty unclear to me after a few rank 1 games: what do I do now (I googled but there're no updated infos) ?
I won a few games, lost a few too. Didn't lose my rank. Won 3 in a row today, didn't receive a free mount from Blizzard (joking).
Apart from the "get quality games", which is a great perk, are there other things I need to know ?

How do I lose my rank ? Like, if I win 10 in a row then lose 5 in a row do I lose it although my WR is very good ?
Do I have a non-hotslog way to track my progress ?

TBH I'm glad to just get good games, good partners, it's another world compared to my rank 13 smurf.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
March 16 2016 17:10 GMT
#113
You get points at Rank 1 still. Some people obsess over those because I guess you gotta have something else to grind / build.

Although if you run out of points you will de-rank to 2.
MotherFox
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1529 Posts
March 16 2016 19:35 GMT
#114
Rank 1 players gain a unique trait where they can start talking in public forums about how rank 1 is no big deal and how it means nothing, even though a significant number of people can't get rank 1.
Don't Panic
Ryzel
Profile Joined December 2012
United States526 Posts
March 16 2016 20:11 GMT
#115
On March 17 2016 04:35 MotherFox wrote:
Rank 1 players gain a unique trait where they can start talking in public forums about how rank 1 is no big deal and how it means nothing, even though a significant number of people can't get rank 1.


^^
Hakuna Matata B*tches
Cephiro
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland1934 Posts
March 16 2016 21:44 GMT
#116
On March 17 2016 04:35 MotherFox wrote:
Rank 1 players gain a unique trait where they can start talking in public forums about how rank 1 is no big deal and how it means nothing, even though a significant number of people can't get rank 1.


Well it's all relative. If you started with low knowledge and grinded your way up with hundreds or thousands of games, I'm sure at that point it's very much an achievement.

For higher level players that initially got placed very close / got to Rank 1 without much effort and are skilled enough to do it over again on any account thrown at them, it really doesn't mean anything.
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 08:31:51
March 17 2016 08:27 GMT
#117
On March 17 2016 02:10 Wuster wrote:
You get points at Rank 1 still. Some people obsess over those because I guess you gotta have something else to grind / build.
Although if you run out of points you will de-rank to 2.


It may sound stupid but how do I check these points ? Is it +1 per victory and -1 per defeat ? (if so I have 2 points, but I guess not since I won all 3 games yesterday, it'd mean I was -1 before that ?)

Motherfox: TBH I won't try to act cool like it's no big deal. ;-)
I did my best to climb since the reset and had so much trouble, I thought I'd never win THAT game to get rank 1, just like everyone in the "normal player crowd", and I feel it's an achievement like Cephiro said. I'm probably not as good as most rank 1 guys here but I love to play at this level and I'll do my best to keep my rank.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
March 17 2016 16:48 GMT
#118
I'm not rank 1, but I believe you can just hover over your rank icon on the score screen to see how many points you have (it uses the same fill around the border as when you level up, except nothing happens when it's filled and I think the amount needed to fill is absurd).
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 17 2016 16:56 GMT
#119
On March 18 2016 01:48 Wuster wrote:
I'm not rank 1, but I believe you can just hover over your rank icon on the score screen to see how many points you have (it uses the same fill around the border as when you level up, except nothing happens when it's filled and I think the amount needed to fill is absurd).

No, you don't get any visual indicator when you're about to de-rank. And I'm pretty sure that there's a cap on the number of points that you can accumulate given how so many high MMR players de-rank when they hit a losing streak.
Leolio
Profile Joined April 2012
France633 Posts
March 18 2016 14:45 GMT
#120
Ok thank you, I understand. So you can track this at the end of each game (won/lost X) but you cannot know if you don't track it. Thanks guys.
Orldin
Profile Joined October 2016
1 Post
Last Edited: 2016-10-03 19:08:07
October 03 2016 17:29 GMT
#121

User was banned for this post.
Aceace
Profile Joined June 2011
Turkey1305 Posts
October 03 2016 18:17 GMT
#122
Dafuq did i just watch? Not funny not educational not... a thing?
Dün dündür, bugün bugündür. (Yesterday was yesterday, today is today)
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
November 21 2017 06:17 GMT
#123
Sic article, will def recommend to my noob friends! :D
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