EPTAs for Stitches, he's only as good as the number of hooks that he lands to initiate fights. If he consistently does it, he's a beast who can carry teams. If not, he's dead weight.
Top 5 Winners/Losers from Sylvanas Patch - Page 2
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
As for Stitches, he's only as good as the number of hooks that he lands to initiate fights. If he consistently does it, he's a beast who can carry teams. If not, he's dead weight. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On April 17 2015 00:03 deth2munkies wrote: I think you underrate Stitches a little bit. He's quite nerfed as to damage and loss of sprint, but he still has his hook, which is still just as devastating as it always is, especially against an Uther "protect the squishy" comp. Agreed. Stitches became a harder hero to play well. So now everyone isn't just a good Stitches by default. You live and die by your hooks now and if you're missing them suddenly you're the worst warrior in the game. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On April 17 2015 00:03 deth2munkies wrote: I think you underrate Stitches a little bit. He's quite nerfed as to damage and loss of sprint, but he still has his hook, which is still just as devastating as it always is, especially against an Uther "protect the squishy" comp. He shouldn't be underrating anything, because Stiches is probably in the worst spot of any warrior, like ever. 44,4% win-rate that keeps going lower. Base health nerfs were way over the board, but then again it follows Blizzard logic so far (gutting the living shit out of every melee warrior). But yeah, hook can be gamechanging, just not gamechanging enough to have him close to at least 50% winrate. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On April 17 2015 00:10 Sponkz wrote: He shouldn't be underrating anything, because Stiches is probably in the worst spot of any warrior, like ever. 44,4% win-rate that keeps going lower. Base health nerfs were way over the board, but then again it follows Blizzard logic so far (gutting the living shit out of every melee warrior). But yeah, hook can be gamechanging, just not gamechanging enough to have him close to at least 50% winrate. He has a bad win percentage because he's played a lot by players who don't know how to hook. Play with someone who can land the hooks, and you'll love having Stitches on your team. Of the warriors, the only one that is grossly underpowered is Anub. Sonya has problems, too, but those are more related to her niche kit. Tyrael is an example of a very good warrior who is good because he has one solid build, but has otherwise garbage talents all over the place. He needs an overhaul, which Blizzard has previously said was coming. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Other than that glad there is so much discussion, thanks everyone! As for the Uther questions, he's #6 in winners, would be higher but he was already pick/ban every game before, and still is now. | ||
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
I do not agree with Zagara though, for some reason top teams pick her in comps with low cc and lose all the time (I can't count the number of times I've seen tassadar+zagara in the same team these days, even though this pick has like 20% win in competitive and for good reasons : it is awful). Sure she brings maw and a good sololane but she doesn't have that much impact in fights if she goes for full creep builds Basically if you don't have a team comp to land a maw combo she is pretty average (just as zeratul is this patch - feast or famine with void prison combo). | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
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KingCaffeine
2 Posts
On April 16 2015 14:05 Diamond wrote: I did not mean to imply that the others were not viable, just they aren't Diablo or ETC. I went across around 40 games real quick and looked at picks from the last week and almost every game (at least 35-38) had Diablo and ETC pick/banned. The problem with this logic is assuming every team has the same understanding of the game. There is an enormous skill and game knowledge gap between the top and bottom teams in the NA region. Taking pick/ban statistics that include all teams doesn't really afford an accurate picture of specific hero power levels. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 17 2015 04:58 RouaF wrote: Well warriors were the undisputed kings of the alpha, they were all so strong + had resurgence. Now they are clearly a bit too weak and ranged heroes too strong, blizzard needs to find the middle ground I feel like Hardened Shield is a really good style talent for tanks, but it comes so late in the game that the impact is minimal: a lot of competitive games are over or pretty much over by lvl 20. There should be more damage mitigation that encourages riskier engage style play that favors heroes like Tyreal and Anub. Right now they just end up going in and immediately dying. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19327 Posts
Edit:Wow autocorrect lol | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On April 17 2015 06:26 deth2munkies wrote: I feel like Hardened Shield is a really good style talent for tanks, but it comes so late in the game that the impact is minimal: a lot of competitive games are over or pretty much over by lvl 20. There should be more damage mitigation that encourages riskier engage style play that favors heroes like Tyreal and Anub. Right now they just end up going in and immediately dying. As someone who plays a lot of Tyrael, I find that the only times when I die when engaging are when I go too early and get overextended from the team. If I let the teams drift a bit closer, going in is usually pretty safe. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On April 17 2015 06:08 KingCaffeine wrote: The problem with this logic is assuming every team has the same understanding of the game. There is an enormous skill and game knowledge gap between the top and bottom teams in the NA region. Taking pick/ban statistics that include all teams doesn't really afford an accurate picture of specific hero power levels. You can't throw out stats based on if one team is better than another. In LCS do they only show stats for C9/TSM? No, they show it for all teams. Also these VOD's were almost all top teams such as yours. Just off the bat without going further I checked SolidJake's channel for recent VOD's. C9M vs EG - ETC pick + Diablo ban Lunatik vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo Lunatik vs 2ARC - Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC coL vs 2ARC - ETC Edit: Some of these were pre-Sylvanas patch, just look at any recent NA matches to confirm ETC and Diablo are picked a lot. Frankly the only teams that ever deviate are yours and 2ARC in NA. I know C9M is about the best pick comp team in the game, so it makes sense why you guys go for Stitches, and 2ARC just has this thing with Tyrael. I know C9M can run a lot of different tanks, but you are the exception, not the standard. Again to reiterate, losers does not mean unviable. | ||
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hipo
France482 Posts
On April 17 2015 06:40 Diamond wrote: You can't throw out stats based on if one team is better than another. In LCS do they only show stats for C9/TSM? No, they show it for all teams. Also these VOD's were almost all top teams such as yours. Just off the bat without going further I checked SolidJake's channel for recent VOD's. C9M vs EG - ETC pick + Diablo ban C9M vs EG - ETC pick + Diablo ban Lunatik vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo Lunatik vs 2ARC - Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC + Diablo coL vs 2ARC - ETC coL vs 2ARC - ETC Frankly the only teams that ever deviate are yours and 2ARC. I know C9M is about the best pick comp team in the game, so it makes sense why you guys go for Stitches, and 2ARC just has this thing with Tyrael. I know C9M can run a lot of different tanks, but you are the exception, not the standard. Again to reiterate, losers does not mean unviable. The situation seem a bit different in Europe. If you look at the playoff of the heroes Major Leagues for examples, you will see heroes like Chen, Tyrael or Muradin being picked as often as Diablo. However, its true that ETC is by far the best warrior since he is picked in almost every single game. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
LDLC vs G2 - ETC + Diablo LDLC vs G2 - ETC LDLC vs G2 - ETC LDLC vs G2 - ETC (cant see bans) LDLC vs G2 - ETC (cant see bans) Well Met vs Kick - ETC + Diablo G2 vs Team Fancy - ETC + Diablo Dignitas vs Gryphus - ETC + Diablo Arthas vs Kick - ETC (can't see bans) Fnatic vs SK - ETC + Diablo Fnatic vs SK - ETC (can't see bans) Fnatic vs SK - Diablo (can't see bans) Fnatic vs SK - ETC SK vs LDLC - Diablo SK vs LDLC - ETC + Diablo SK vs LDLC - ETC So let's think about this, I have yet to find a VOD of a pro game from this patch that does not have either ETC or Diablo in it, literally 100% I have searched do. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On April 17 2015 04:12 Incognoto wrote: So even in Hots, tanks suck? No they are pretty awesome, but they are also Melees and that means they are healers of the opposing team thanks to blood for blood. Melees in general have a harder time engaging so its easier to mess up and right now people concentrate on the easy to play heroes, that work on almost every map. Thats why Jaina and Sylvanas are so good right now. Diablo and ETC are really bad at grabbing ranged heroes but can push other melees really easily away from their support and into the range of the damage dealers. It is a strong combination really, but not to overpowered. | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
All in all I really don't like hpw she plays now. She used to be unique because of her good mix of spell and autoattack damage, and in my opinion they watered her down in terms of being fun to play. But knowing Blizzard, there is no chance that they will revert some of the changes, which makes me very sad. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
I don't think the Tyrande changes were a nerf, my roomate is one of the top Tyrande players in NA and he's in love with the changes, especially the lvl 13 heal upgrade. | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2550 Posts
On April 18 2015 03:26 RageCommodore wrote: Tyrande probably got way more consistent, but moving her trueshot aura was a big enough nerf to offset that. Also shes pretty much a sitting duck now that she doesn't have blink anymore. As someone that has played Tyrande a metric shitton since alpha, I absolutely hate how she got changed, because mostly she didn't get any better for people that were able to consistenly hit her stun before, but now she does less damage and doesn't reward good plays anymore. All in all I really don't like hpw she plays now. She used to be unique because of her good mix of spell and autoattack damage, and in my opinion they watered her down in terms of being fun to play. But knowing Blizzard, there is no chance that they will revert some of the changes, which makes me very sad. This is not true. I played her a lot pre patch, played her a lot post patch and while she is very different it's as rewarding to play her. Very strong hero, but I noticed my build is much different than the current new popular tyrande builds (I still take both owl talents). | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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