Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move. ~Sun Tzu
There's a scent in the air, a familiar scent to esports fans everywhere, "new patch" smell. But this is bigger, more pervasive than that. This is "new game" smell. The smell of potential of new strategies waiting just around the corner to be discovered. Its an exciting time to witness any game. Its a chance to see the completely insane and ridiculous strategies that can only be pulled out in situations like this. Given the nature of the tournament, we're going to see things ranging from cleverly devised strategies that are designed to completely cripple an opponent to surprising and unexpected innovation designed to exploit angles we haven't even considered to potentially almost taunting drafts that enrage a team and push them to perform harder.
In the beta we've seen all kinds of strategies; from drafts that picked up Uther and Falstad to combine mass aoe with Falstad ultimate, to Zeratul builds that revolved around the usage of bombs and Void Prison to win teamfights while remaining mobile and difficult to bring down. We've seen Tyrael go from widely regarded as underpowered to first pick material. We've seen how in the span of a few days, strategies like two tank Malfurion have emerged and been countered. Now, in front of an audience of thousands, we are going to see the culmination of that metagame, the clash of time tested strategies and innovation. Things like a cheeky murky pickup are a definite possibility. As is a clever build combining Nova and Zeratul, especially now that Nova is much more viable as a competitive pick. We are going to have a chance to witness the birth of new strategies, and the success or failure of old ones. This is like the International, or the SC2 Beta, where every game you have a chance to see something completely new, off the wall and unexpected, and that element alone is exciting. We're going to get to see teams run Heroes that are difficult to play in ordinary circumstances, in compositions that have been carefully crafted. We're going to have a chance to see displays of unrivaled skill. The smell of potential, the secret strategies, a clash of ideologies, it all comes to a head at Blizzcon.
The Battle of the Esports
Fanatic winning Worlds, an achievement for any team
Being a fan of a game means, by its very nature, that you are invested in the players that play that game. Seeing them play Heroes is a new chance to cheer for people you've learned to love watching. In this particular tournament there are three distinct sides wanting to prove themselves. The first is the newbloods, players who never really rose to the top in other esports and that have been carving a name for themselves in alpha. They're hungry to prove that just because we don't recognize their names yet, doesn't mean that we won't soon enough. The second is the ex-sc2 pros, wanting to show that they still have what it takes to compete at the highest levels, in one of the most prestigious and watched events of the year, and event they might not have even reached as SC2 players. Names like IdrA, SaSe, Naniwa, Sheth, and LzGamer which should be familiar to anyone who's familiar with the history of the game. The third is the League of Legends players, players with a strong background in MOBAs, who've even managed to make a name for themselves, and in part, are here because they believe their foundations in LoL give them the edge to crush opponents who lack the same experience. Three types of backgrounds, for three different categories of fans. Enough to sate anyone. Four teams, well known names, organizations that fans know and have a stake in. One victor.
These undercurrents, the pull and tug of different backgrounds is going to flavor the competition, even for people who don't usually watch heroes, there's something there to root for. Something that can be appreciated without quite understanding the mechanics behind Abathur or how Chen works. Its a hook of irresistible competition, a promise of effort and challenge and high stakes. For a tournament with no prize pool, something intangible but almost more valuable than money is on the line. A confirmation that all that effort was worth it. Validation.
The return of old faces
Sometimes, an old face can look almost unrecognizable, fraught with unexpected youth
It’s always nice to see a familiar face, whether on when you’re walking down the street or watching a tournament! Blizzcon has the familiar faces in droves, featuring recognizable names from both Starcraft 2 and League of Legends! There's of course Naniwa and Sase, two of the strongest SC2 players ever to grace the scene, but Fnatic also has some other names you may recognize if you have followed the League of legends scene. Lamia and Shushei are both former members of Fnatics LoL team and Lamia helped he team secure a win in the first ever World Championship! While both players haven’t been as active in the scene since 2012, their reputation precedes them as strong competitors and former champions. If you’re looking for players that have been active in the LoL scene more recently, then look no further than Cloud 9. Jintae and Zuna were both players in the NALCS and helped their teams achieve great success. Jintae played for the underdogs GGU as they made a surprising run to the 2013 LCS Spring finals. Zuna played for XDG as they placed third in the 2013 Summer Split and qualified for the World Championship. It will be interesting to see how his outspoken style transfers to another team based game. Bischu, Bobbyhankhill, and iDream are all former League players from the challenger scene. We’ll see how each of these established LoL professionals transfer their skills to a new game!
It’s not just former League of legends pros playing in this tournament, many former Starcraft players have made the transition to Heroes. LzGaMeR makes his triumphant return to EG as a Heroes player, leading his team to successful finishes throughout the Alpha so far. The captain of Team Liquid is none other than Sheth, who is well loved by his fans for his strong gameplay and good manner. One of the players for EG is fan favorite IdrA, who is well known for his strong gameplay and…other types of manner. Both IdrA and Sheth bring in large and dedicated fanbases to this new game. It will be intriguing to see how their vastly different pasts influence how they interact and play in this very team-oriented game.
…And the emergence of new ones
Births and beginnings, unmistakable moments of brilliance.
While many of the players might be familiar to you whether or not you have watched heroes before, there are also a lot of new faces that have not been in the spotlight in any previous esport. These players have a lot to prove, and will gain a new fanbase with their stellar play at Blizzcon. In particular, the rosters of Team Liquid and EG feature many strong players from the Alpha that haven’t gotten exposure before now. DunkTrain is not only one of the best players in the alpha, but also an avid streamer and commentator. Known for his stellar specialist play, you will always know when TL picks up a win when #CHOO # CHOO pops up all over your twitter feed. With the help of Sheth, Liquid was able to find three other great players who have been playing seriously in the alpha for some time. Biceps, Pithx, and Caffiene have shown that they mesh well with Sheth and Dunktrain and have already helped put Liquid as one of the frontrunners to win Blizzcon.
Evil Geniuses, the team formerly known as Team Snowflake, have been competing in tournaments for many months now. While the team itself is one of the more experienced organizations going to Blizzcon, they have had a number of roster switches that have previously prevented them from achieving consistency. With a core group of IdrA, LzGaMeR, and Keylax, Snowflake picked up Faye and Chillatech more recently to round out their lineup. Aside form the IdrA, and Lz, these names won’t be familiar to many of you, but they certainly will be after Blizzcon. Faye is considered to be one of the most mechanically gifted players in the alpha, consistently landing difficult skillshots that lead into big plays for her team. Keylax and Chillatech have swapped roles back and forth to find the best fit for their team, and now with Keylax on support and Chillatech leading the team as the tank line, they’ve gotten EG back to the top of the alpha. While you may be excited to watch players you recognize, don’t sleep on these new faces as they write their own legacies in this new game.
Everything is bigger at Blizzcon
The GSL finals at blizzcon
No matter what Blizzard game you watch or play, Blizzcon is the highlight of the year for them all. This is the Super Bowl. This is the World Series. This is whatever the championship of Premier League is called. Every year tens of thousands of gamers flock to Anaheim, California and hundreds of thousands watch online as Blizzard showcases the best that its games have to offer. People make the trip or tune in for different reasons. Some want to hear about upcoming titles or expansions and others go for the community. This year, some people may tune in to watch Metallica close out the weekend with the concert finale. The huge crowds, the cosplayers, the panels, the announcements, and the atmosphere all serve to create an incredible viewer experience and generate excitement for the main event, the tournaments.
This year Blizzcon features huge tournaments for Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, and World of Warcraft as the culmination of this year’s competition in each of those respective sports. For these players and tournament spectators alike Blizzcon is the ultimate prize at the end of the marathon of events that took place throughout 2014. While not all the Heroes of the Storm teams featured in the Blizzcon exhibition are those that have been competing throughout the year, it showcases the potential of the competitive scene on the biggest stage in all of Blizzard esports. The Heroes of the Storm stage is at the heart of the Convention Center, nestled between the Hearthstone and Starcraft 2 areas. Here is the battleground on which these storied organizations and famous players will duke it out to become Blizzcon champions. At Blizzcon, the lights are brighter, the crowds are bigger, and the stakes are higher. No matter what you’ve seen from a game at other tournaments, Blizzcon always brings a new level of passion and excitement to the table that can’t be matched anywhere else. This year’s Heroes of the Storm tournament will be no different.
It’s a rare opportunity to get in on the ground floor of a game, to be invested as a spectator as you watch a game in its infancy come of age in a big way. When a game is just beginning to take hold, the excitement builds dramatically and provides viewers with an amazing experience. Some, or even most, of TL did not have this opportunity with games like Starcraft, Dota, or Super Smash Brothers, but this year at Blizzcon is your chance to see the first time Heroes of the Storm takes to the big competitive stage. Over the course of the past year the Heroes community has been a “grassroots” style movement aided by a variety of figures from within the ever-growing scene. Multiple tournaments were held, podcasts were made, and articles were written. Despite all of this a lot of the competitive arenas of Heroes have remained largely in the dark to most, and a big part of that is because the game is still in its Technical Alpha stage. But at Blizzcon, Blizzard is casting a light over everything that all these community figures have been doing for the past year, and showing the gaming community at large what the game is truly capable of. This time, the audience won’t just be hardcore fans or those who have already been invited to test the game, but anyone who wants to see an exciting new title emerging into the spotlight. The game will be exposed to new eyes, and hopefully soon, new players. With new spectators and new players the professional scene, and the game itself, will evolve at an unprecedented pace. This event is both the celebration of what has been done so far for the game and a new beginning, to which we say, bring it on.
It’s a MOBA like you’ve never seen before
It's nothing like the games you've played before
The term MOBA, or Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, is a rapidly expanding game archetype in the competitive scene. Obviously at the forefront of these types of games are League of Legends and Dota 2. When you hear that Heroes of the Storm is a MOBA or as Blizzard likes to call it, a “hero brawler,” you may have preconceived notions for what that means. But I’m here to tell you that heroes offers both a player and viewer experience that is different than anything you’ve seen from other games in the genre. Here a few key differences you’ll see at Blizzcon:
1. Different Maps – The first and perhaps most important difference between Heroes and other MOBAs is the map pool. There are five different maps within Heroes, all with unique objectives and layouts that challenge teams to vary their hero picks and strategies to adapt to these new situations. We get to see how certain teams deal with map mechanics that change from game to game, keeping the game fresh and exciting no matter how many games you’ve watched. 2. Teamfights – While the maps are all different, they do share a common trait. All of them actively encourage roaming and teamfighting from the get go. The laning phase of Heroes is very short almost nonexistent, and this results in constant clashes across the map. The game never settles down, as a fight could perhaps break out at any moment when an important objective is in play. 3. Team Experience – In Heroes, teams level up as a group, accessing new talents and higher stats together by gathering experience from a variety of sources. That means when you get a kill, score an important objective, or even just force your opponent out of lane, you are generating an advantage not just for yourself, but for your whole team. This new mechanic forces teams to really focus on grabbing experience wherever they can. 4. The Talent System – There are no items to buy in heroes. Instead, variance in what a hero can do as the game progresses come from talents that can be selected at various level milestones. Players can even choose between two Heroic Abilities (“ultimates” for you LoL and Dota fans). This is exciting because heroes can be played in vastly different ways depending on their talent choices. Teams make different talent decisions based on personal preference, their own composition, their opponent’s composition, or even the current state of the game. These fast-paced adaptations keep the players and viewers on their toes. These are just a few of the many key differences between Heroes of the Storm and its peers. If you’ve never gotten into MOBA-style games before, or want to check out something exciting and new, Heroes has you covered.
The Rivalries
This image presented with a touch of nostalgia
EG vs TL. If you've followed esports for any appreciable length of time, that statement means something. It speaks of an ancient rivalry that has lasted thought many games and many events. It brings back memories of games where more than victory was at stake. It reminds you of HuK vs IdrA. It calls back to countless clashes in countless tournaments, be it a five on five clash in the international, with Demon just recently having replaced Fluff, or single clashes of star players, scattered across MLGs and Dreamhacks. Seeing those two logos, displayed proudly on opposite sides of the battlefield, well, its a promise that neither side has given up yet, and that this next clash will be another chance to prove who the better team is. If we were only witness to that one rivalry, that should be enough to rivet our eyes to the stage, but it isn't. We also have C9 vs Fnatic, a much younger, but still very real rivalry. One that can be traced back to C9's relative period of ascendancy, and culminating in them clashing at worlds in 2013. These two teams might not have a rivalry as long lived as EG vs TL, but it seems like its every bit as fierce.
Rivalries are a reason to show up, a reason to look on and to cheer. They bring joy in victory and despair in defeat, and the make a match go from interesting to intense. All four organizations have tangled before be it in Dota, League or SC2 and indubitably fans will remember old wounds, crushing victories, and narrow defeats as they look at these matches. As important, if not more, are the emerging rivalries, between teams and between players, while this might be an old dance for EG and TL, and the clash between Sheth and Idra is hardly a new match-up, these games might be the seeds of a new legacy of opposition. Perhaps, in months to come, we'll remember C9 vs TL as the first clash in a battle that would span the history of heroes. First blood among new rivals.
Heroes of the Storm
A Good Game
There's one more reason to watch. Beyond the "esports". Beyond the names. Beyond the passion of the scene. There's a legitimately good game here. There's a competitive, intense, objective based game that is worth watching. There's a game that is graphically gratifying, full of small, enjoyable details, little graphical touches that add to the charm of the game. Its a chance to see heroes you may only half remember from stories you played though and enjoyed. There's a basic primal joy in hearing Illidan speak once again, or seeing Nova gunning down opponents with glee. Hearing Sgt Hammer belt out lines from the second best unit in SC:BW, watching Diablo firestomp, its evocative of games that form part of our collective experience, and its an absolute joy to watch. The soundtracks, like the WC3 Humans music playing in the background of Blackhart Bay, and countless new tracks, pull at the nostalgia a lot of us feel for a simpler time. The voice work, the meticulous details, the tiny little things that tell us that this game is a labor of love.
The biggest, the best reason, you should watch this tournament, is because Heroes of the Storm is a game that is deserving of the Blizzard legacy. A game brimming with potential, with passion. A game that is actually fun, that recreates that feeling I had when SC2 was in beta, when playing WC3 against people for the first time, when starting the SC:BW campaign. There is a fun, exciting, legitimately enjoyable game there that deserves our attention. If for no other reason than our testament that this game is fun, you should tune in. Watch players you know and players you don't know, fighting with new and bizarre strategies, in a game that is being born, on the biggest stage it's ever been on, with the assurance that, yes, this is a game worth your attention, a game worth watching, playing and cheering for.
Meh, if your main argument to watch Hots is to watch mediocre ex-sc2 players that couldn't stay relevant in a mediocre game for more than a year at most, then that's quite disappointing.
On November 01 2014 08:42 xuanzue wrote: wihtout invite, is hard to watch a game that I haven't played.
Gotta say this is probably true for most. People just aren't interested in watching a game they didn't even play yet - even the SC2 community played it at some point. (Just a little joke).
But on topic, great writeup as usual. But its a little weird to have all of this in the Other Games subforum, maybe time to create a subforum like you guys did with LoL?
On November 01 2014 08:42 xuanzue wrote: wihtout invite, is hard to watch a game that I haven't played.
Gotta say this is probably true for most. People just aren't interested in watching a game they didn't even play yet - even the SC2 community played it at some point. (Just a little joke).
But on topic, great writeup as usual. But its a little weird to have all of this in the Other Games subforum, maybe time to create a subforum like you guys did with LoL?
The biggest, the best reason, you should watch this tournament, is because Heroes of the Storm is a game that is deserving of the Blizzard legacy. A game brimming with potential, with passion. A game that is actually fun, that recreates that feeling I had when SC2 was in beta, when playing WC3 against people for the first time, when starting the SC:BW campaign.
It's funny. I had the same exact feeling of playing Heroes of the Storm that I had with Heartstone. It was really fun for a week, but then I realized I prefered a game where the skillcap was more related to "micro" rather than decisionmaking, and just got pretty bored of the game.
Heartstone still ended up being a succesful esport as viewers can be impressed with certain decisions. I am not convinced that HOTS can do that as well. Most real-time game loses their charm from a strategic perspective once certain strategies have been used a critical amount of times. I happen to beileve that League/DOTA isn't watched by hundreds of thousands because people are that much interested in the gameplans of the teams. Rather, I believe that viewers too a large extent is interested in watching their favourite players make plays that the viewers them selves can only dream off. With the current design of heroes in HOTS, the micro-skill cap is simply way too low for viewers to be impressed by anything except the decisionmaking/strategies of certain teams.
FYI; I am not comparing the micro-skill cap of Heroes here to Starcraft, but to League of Legends, which has some pretty impressive champion design in my opinion.
Idra is really back, now that's hype right there. I can't wait to watch his games. Almost more interested in Idra than I am in Starcraft 2 without Maru.
Ok.... can you now stop to try to hit all it remains of the sc2 players... ^^
Said nothing with lol, dota 2, heartstone, but now i think the community is too small to have all guys say "Hey, watch and play Hos during Blizzcon".
It's TLStarcraft guys, please ^^ . The only site i thought there will be no moba things. Why don't you post this on Liquid Dota ??? The community is 10 time bigger !
i thought the alpha is free for everyone now, right? i played the game the last 2 days and it's really fun, even though i hate moba games... but i guess the best part about Hots (compared to other moba games) is that the games are ~20 minutes avarage, so basically you dont have to stay for 30+ minutes after you realized that it is only snow balling at some point.. and yeah, playing with any famous sc2 hero is just sooo awesome
On November 01 2014 17:18 Wertheron wrote: Ok.... can you now stop to try to hit all it remains of the sc2 players... ^^
Said nothing with lol, dota 2, heartstone, but now i think the community is too small to have all guys say "Hey, watch and play Hos during Blizzcon".
It's TLStarcraft guys, please ^^ . The only site i thought there will be no moba things. Why don't you post this on Liquid Dota ??? The community is 10 time bigger !
It's in "Other Games" which can be seen on all sites. Not in the SC2 section. There is a LoL subforum on TL for a long time btw.
On November 01 2014 17:18 Wertheron wrote: Ok.... can you now stop to try to hit all it remains of the sc2 players... ^^
Said nothing with lol, dota 2, heartstone, but now i think the community is too small to have all guys say "Hey, watch and play Hos during Blizzcon".
It's TLStarcraft guys, please ^^ . The only site i thought there will be no moba things. Why don't you post this on Liquid Dota ??? The community is 10 time bigger !
It's in "Other Games" which can be seen on all sites. Not in the SC2 section. There is a LoL subforum on TL for a long time btw.
Yes, true. I would say no moba in highlights or big news, sorry ^^. It would be not disturbing if all the others TL did the same thing but... no. Why ? Dota is a moba, it have a dynamic and growing community, why don't they have featured articles with "Hey guys, during the International, watch Hos."
i'll be sure to watch some blizzcon, maybe hots is up =), tho i cant see blizz making a dent in a market firmly hold by dota2 and LoL, that said i would like to try the mario party moba (my impression so far with all the minigames in the maps)
man a nintendo moba... now that i think of it xD... that and pokemon mmo, and another singleplayer zelda for console plx TT
I'm going to be a bit of an asshole here (as I usually am) but the fact that you list HotS being a good game as the last reason shows everything wrong with todays mindset toward gaming.
A grassroots movement (often referenced in the context of a political movement) is driven by a community's politics. The term implies that the creation of the movement and the group supporting it are natural and spontaneous, highlighting the differences between this and a movement that is orchestrated by traditional power structures.
I think this was all hardly spontaneous, people were seeing dollar signs and ESPORTS way before Blizzard even came out with a working version of the game.
If grassroots is used in a sport context (because esports is kind of sports) it makes even less sense.
I cannot take a game seriously, in which characters like Diablo ride horses to move around the battlefield more quickly. :-/ Lore is there to be respected.
I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
On November 02 2014 01:34 JustPassingBy wrote: I cannot take a game seriously, in which characters like Diablo ride horses to move around the battlefield more quickly. :-/ Lore is there to be respected.
Cannot tell if serious or trolling. Thors are larger than the buildings that build them, Nydus worms work on space platforms and the list goes on.
On November 01 2014 08:42 xuanzue wrote: wihtout invite, is hard to watch a game that I haven't played.
Exactly. Some of us don't have those eSportz connectionz to just grab a beta key.
I don't get these argument... I mean, how many people who watch real sports played them?
The majority? I've played Ice hokey, soccer, badminton... I havn't played a few sports I consider watch-able but that is a very small minority of sports. We aren't talking pro level, we are talking school classes, kids playing around level.
I won't be watching anything at Blizzcon this year, nothing that interests me any longer. Or do they have WC3 DotA there?
On November 02 2014 01:34 JustPassingBy wrote: I cannot take a game seriously, in which characters like Diablo ride horses to move around the battlefield more quickly. :-/ Lore is there to be respected.
That's fine, you're not supposed to take the game seriously, as Blizzard itself doesn't.
All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
saying that LoL or Dota don't have objectives is wrong. Towers, dragon, roshan..
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
eh it's hard to say. 100-kills in 40 min constant team fight games happen with some regularity in dota, but I wouldn't want every game to be like that. Constant fighting becomes fatiguing to watch.
With 99% of the potential player base unable to try the game, I find it hard to see how this is "grassroots ESPORTS". Blizzard's strategy of ESPORTS HYPE before the player base and game quality is firmly established is 1 for 2 so far. It remains to be seen whether this is SC2 beta or Hearthstone beta. Most other big esports titles have followed the model of large player base and quality game -> "grassroots" esports -> ESPORTS
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
saying that LoL or Dota don't have objectives is wrong. Towers, dragon, roshan..
You can't honestly say that LoL and DoTA are "objectives-oriented" to the degree that HotS is.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
saying that LoL or Dota don't have objectives is wrong. Towers, dragon, roshan..
You can't honestly say that LoL and DoTA are "objectives-oriented" to the degree that HotS is.
To the extent that you're not pigeonholed into exclusively using "objective-oriented" strategies, I guess you're right? Although "objective-based dota" and "roshan control dota" are both major strategies and stock jargon.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
I think a lot of the crapping here comes less from people that think the game is "bad" (after all, virtually no one has played it) and more from people that feel like some of the content coming out on TL is a bit...aggressively gung-ho on pushing the game (that no one has played) for esports.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
saying that LoL or Dota don't have objectives is wrong. Towers, dragon, roshan..
You can't honestly say that LoL and DoTA are "objectives-oriented" to the degree that HotS is.
when your only way to win the game is by destroying the enemy throne, yes. Also if you get every rosh/towers, you will win pretty easily. Your game isn't a special snowflake.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
saying that LoL or Dota don't have objectives is wrong. Towers, dragon, roshan..
You can't honestly say that LoL and DoTA are "objectives-oriented" to the degree that HotS is.
when your only way to win the game is by destroying the enemy throne, yes. Also if you get every rosh/towers, you will win pretty easily. Your game isn't a special snowflake.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
I think a lot of the crapping here comes less from people that think the game is "bad" (after all, virtually no one has played it) and more from people that feel like some of the content coming out on TL is a bit...aggressively gung-ho on pushing the game (that no one has played) for esports.
Im sure plenty of people have played it. Didn't they even have a free alpha weekend?
I just don't understand how so many reputable names are backing/enjoying the game. I found it very slow paced and clunky, but maybe its better now. We'll see how the game has evolved I suppose at the Blizzcon matches.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
I think a lot of the crapping here comes less from people that think the game is "bad" (after all, virtually no one has played it) and more from people that feel like some of the content coming out on TL is a bit...aggressively gung-ho on pushing the game (that no one has played) for esports.
Im sure plenty of people have played it. Didn't they even have a free alpha weekend?
I just don't understand how so many reputable names are backing/enjoying the game. I found it very slow paced and clunky, but maybe its better now. We'll see how the game has evolved I suppose at the Blizzcon matches.
I don't think so? Maybe it just wasn't publicized at all. Right now the keys are still first-twitch-months-of-Hearthstone rare as far as I know, complete with dumb giveaways.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
I think a lot of the crapping here comes less from people that think the game is "bad" (after all, virtually no one has played it) and more from people that feel like some of the content coming out on TL is a bit...aggressively gung-ho on pushing the game (that no one has played) for esports.
Im sure plenty of people have played it. Didn't they even have a free alpha weekend?
I just don't understand how so many reputable names are backing/enjoying the game. I found it very slow paced and clunky, but maybe its better now. We'll see how the game has evolved I suppose at the Blizzcon matches.
On November 02 2014 04:37 Dubzex wrote: This is more artificial than pamela anderson's boobs.
I don't know anything, yet i smell "Blizzard sponsored article" all over this. I started visit TL about 4 years ago and always thought it is site of SC2 enthusiasts, "by gamers for gamers" type of site, not some marketing machine.
On November 02 2014 04:37 Dubzex wrote: This is more artificial than pamela anderson's boobs.
I don't know anything, yet i smell "Blizzard sponsored article" all over this. I started visit TL about 4 years ago and always thought it is site of SC2 enthusiasts, "by gamers for gamers" type of site, not some marketing machine.
Man, I wish Blizzard had sponsored us for this. Sadly it turns out, that we are still doing this for free and that some of us are just passionate about the game
On November 02 2014 04:37 Dubzex wrote: This is more artificial than pamela anderson's boobs.
I don't know anything, yet i smell "Blizzard sponsored article" all over this. I started visit TL about 4 years ago and always thought it is site of SC2 enthusiasts, "by gamers for gamers" type of site, not some marketing machine.
Man, I wish Blizzard had sponsored us for this. Sadly it turns out, that we are still doing this for free and that some of us are just passionate about the game
On November 02 2014 09:21 fishbowl wrote: Are keys really that rare? I've had HotS collecting dust in my account for months. Didn't know I apparently lucked out.
It's just like any Blizzard Beta/Alpha - if you don't know anyone at Blizzard it's like playing the lottery.
I have seen idra stream this game and it looks boring. I dont find it exciting seeing a champion running around for 30 minutes doing the same thing over and over. I will still watch it just to try it.
no thank you, Blizzard has shown which way they want to go with hearthstone and now heroes of the storm. Now they can walk that road without me (did they cancel legacy of the void? wheres wc4?)
On November 02 2014 04:37 Dubzex wrote: This is more artificial than pamela anderson's boobs.
I don't know anything, yet i smell "Blizzard sponsored article" all over this. I started visit TL about 4 years ago and always thought it is site of SC2 enthusiasts, "by gamers for gamers" type of site, not some marketing machine.
I agree. I believe HotS alpha couldn't meet the hype so Blizzard needed some kind of "advertorial". I don't know regular numbers but 1269 people watching HotS while 1837 people watching AoE on twitch atm :D People just don't like watching HotS. Because there is no "BLACKHOOOLE" or "Dondo hook" or "Marine King Split" or "Sooo many banelingssss!!!" moment in the game. Heroes use their skills to tickle their opponents. Stun for 0.5 seconds. Its not exciting at all.
But please don't be harsh on TL. As you probably know advertorials are a big part of modern media. TL is one of the biggest and most influental sites in the E-sports. Its so natural to read some advertorials here.
I think I'll watch out of curiosity because I've finally got an alpha invite so I know how the game is played at my level and wish to know more. If I didn't I wouldn't have watched, 100% sure.
On November 01 2014 08:44 amazingxkcd wrote: Meh, if your main argument to watch Hots is to watch mediocre ex-sc2 players that couldn't stay relevant in a mediocre game for more than a year at most, then that's quite disappointing.
On November 02 2014 02:39 Fluffboll wrote: I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
There is no lack of complexity in HotS if you know where to look for it (for example, not in last hitting creeps, but in winning objectives).
People have asked whether or not HotS has enough complexity to be an esport. This question is now redundant. HotS is already an esport.
On November 02 2014 02:39 Fluffboll wrote: I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
There is no lack of complexity in HotS if you know where to look for it (for example, not in last hitting creeps, but in winning objectives).
People have asked whether or not HotS has enough complexity to be an esport. This question is now redundant. HotS is already an esport.
Even mobile games are 'esports' now, it hardly means anything when you get called an esport these days.
The game need huge sweeping changes on all levels to be anywhere near its rivals. Starcraft 2 could get away with sub-par design decisions because it was (and still is) the only serious attempt at a game in its genre. That said, HotS is still in alpha and there is still time to make these changes. Stop being a bunch of yes men and actually give constructive feedback to Blizzard.
On November 02 2014 02:39 Fluffboll wrote: I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
There is no lack of complexity in HotS if you know where to look for it (for example, not in last hitting creeps, but in winning objectives).
People have asked whether or not HotS has enough complexity to be an esport. This question is now redundant. HotS is already an esport.
Even mobile games are 'esports' now, it hardly means anything when you get called an esport these days.
The game need huge sweeping changes on all levels to be anywhere near its rivals. Starcraft 2 could get away with sub-par design decisions because it was (and still is) the only serious attempt at a game in its genre. That said, HotS is still in alpha and there is still time to make these changes. Stop being a bunch of yes men and actually give constructive feedback to Blizzard.
Ah yes. this reminds me of that SotG episode with Destiny and IdrA, where Destiny defends this point like you (give feedback to blizzard and if they dont do anything the players have to do it themselves) and the yes men just shitted all over him "blizzard knows best"
On November 02 2014 02:39 Fluffboll wrote: I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
There is no lack of complexity in HotS if you know where to look for it (for example, not in last hitting creeps, but in winning objectives).
People have asked whether or not HotS has enough complexity to be an esport. This question is now redundant. HotS is already an esport.
Even mobile games are 'esports' now
Yes. And you should reflect on the reasons for this fact.
The game need huge sweeping changes on all levels to be anywhere near its rivals. Stop being a bunch of yes men and actually give constructive feedback to Blizzard.
The game needs no fundamental changes in its core design, only in it's business model.
On November 02 2014 20:29 Spaylz wrote: I'll admit this article is a bit too promotional, but when did TL become so negative?
Has always been like that in the Moba area. This is piece of cake compared to League of Legends hate. :D If this game was not by Blizzard, reaction would be MUCH more negative.
On November 02 2014 20:25 Redox wrote: OP should include infiormation about when this is and how we can watch. I have no idea.
I thought I just missed something. Really should have information about where and how to watch this. Telling us why without those is so pointless. From what I could gather elsewhere it seems to start at 5pm PDT Nov 7th.
On November 01 2014 17:18 Wertheron wrote: Ok.... can you now stop to try to hit all it remains of the sc2 players... ^^
Said nothing with lol, dota 2, heartstone, but now i think the community is too small to have all guys say "Hey, watch and play Hos during Blizzcon".
It's TLStarcraft guys, please ^^ . The only site i thought there will be no moba things. Why don't you post this on Liquid Dota ??? The community is 10 time bigger !
I just don't understand people who talk about Heroes having objectives as if LoL and Dota don't. I don't know anything about Dota, so I'll just talk about League instead. What about the strategic almost chess like minion control, and rotations to push towers in League of Legends. The dragon/baron teamfights, the tower teamfights, even the jungle buff teamfights. It just doesn't make sense to me why people just pass off these games as if they had no objectives at all.
Edit: What about the little skirmishes? I watched a few HotS games, and maybe they were a poor representation, but all I saw were 5v5 fights. Personally I love watching 2v2, or 3v3 in addition to the big 5v5 fights. Anyway, I will probably tune in to Blizzcon still, I just think people are somewhat forgetting that HotS is not the only 'moba' with a large amount of objectives.
On November 02 2014 02:39 Fluffboll wrote: I've watched a few streams of Heroes and will be watching at least a few games at Blizzcon but I fear Heroes as a game will fall short due to lack of complexity. Competing in the moba market against LoL and DOTA2 will not be easy
There is no lack of complexity in HotS if you know where to look for it (for example, not in last hitting creeps, but in winning objectives).
People have asked whether or not HotS has enough complexity to be an esport. This question is now redundant. HotS is already an esport.
Isnt Hearthstone considered esport? Yeah right, that game with no observer system, where tournaments and streams have to hack together a dualscreen output to see both hands, that game which lacks a replay system or a public api to track "eports" stats. Anything can be esports, the question is, will it be a succesful esports title. One that attracts sponsors and tournaments that arent pooled by blizzard. One which doesn't need threads like these "watch ex sc2-pros play".
If the game is still in alpha, why the fuck are you hyping it up like this then and defending every argument against it with the argument that it's still in alpha, but please come watch anyway!11
This game will be an esport for sure, it already is. Yes its in alpha but its going to be one years since they announced it. I think at blizzcon they will announce tons of new features and beta. The hype is building right now, some weeks ago, the game had like 300 viewers in twitchs, now it was around 1300, in Blizzccon it will be seen how much interest the game gathers and then with beta keys the interest will grow up as it happened with hearthstone.
Thats why they are hyping it. First of all they like it, and then it its obvious this game is preparing for beta and esports (final alpha phase, moving people to release servers instead of beta servers, thats the reason of the wipe, and a showmatchs with big teams).
Now Heroes of the Storm does have 2 vs 2 3vs 3 and 1vs1 fights, but it is very map dependant, for example you will always see that kind of fights in Dragon Shrine, but you will rarely see then in Cursed Hollow.
People need to stop asking for items and last hit in this game. People say they need those things to b able to compete with league and dota and to be a real esport, but if they did that the game would be dead on arrival. It would be another clone, it would be kind of popular, because of Blizzard, but wouldnt really stand a chance. By changin the genre a little, it does actually stand a chance, because although it is from the same genre, heroes is to mobas what smash is to fighting games: the same genre but plays very very differently. Thats why they stand a chance.
On November 03 2014 04:05 [SXG]Phantom wrote: This game will be an esport for sure, it already is. Yes its in alpha but its going to be one years since they announced it. I think at blizzcon they will announce tons of new features and beta. The hype is building right now, some weeks ago, the game had like 300 viewers in twitchs, now it was around 1300, in Blizzccon it will be seen how much interest the game gathers and then with beta keys the interest will grow up as it happened with hearthstone.
Thats why they are hyping it. First of all they like it, and then it its obvious this game is preparing for beta and esports (final alpha phase, moving people to release servers instead of beta servers, thats the reason of the wipe, and a showmatchs with big teams).
Now Heroes of the Storm does have 2 vs 2 3vs 3 and 1vs1 fights, but it is very map dependant, for example you will always see that kind of fights in Dragon Shrine, but you will rarely see then in Cursed Hollow.
People need to stop asking for items and last hit in this game. People say they need those things to b able to compete with league and dota and to be a real esport, but if they did that the game would be dead on arrival. It would be another clone, it would be kind of popular, because of Blizzard, but wouldnt really stand a chance. By changin the genre a little, it does actually stand a chance, because although it is from the same genre, heroes is to mobas what smash is to fighting games: the same genre but plays very very differently. Thats why they stand a chance.
I've yet to people ask for items and last hits.
Anyways the main problem I feel from the game is that team fights are forced so much they become irrelevant. The game is just boring.
On November 03 2014 02:59 RagequitBM wrote: I just don't understand people who talk about Heroes having objectives as if LoL and Dota don't. I don't know anything about Dota, so I'll just talk about League instead. What about the strategic almost chess like minion control, and rotations to push towers in League of Legends. The dragon/baron teamfights, the tower teamfights, even the jungle buff teamfights. It just doesn't make sense to me why people just pass off these games as if they had no objectives at all.
Edit: What about the little skirmishes? I watched a few HotS games, and maybe they were a poor representation, but all I saw were 5v5 fights. Personally I love watching 2v2, or 3v3 in addition to the big 5v5 fights. Anyway, I will probably tune in to Blizzcon still, I just think people are somewhat forgetting that HotS is not the only 'moba' with a large amount of objectives.
People who talk about strategic depht are usually dead wrong. As long as there are a lot of tradeoffs in a game so no decision is dominant to other decisions, then the game will almost always have a critical mass of strategic depht.
So LOL has depht, Dota has depht, HOTS has depht, or at the very least, HOTS will get strategic depht once the balance improves. Moreover, whether a game is hard or not is not what makes an esport. What makes an esport is whether viewers find it funny to watch or not. Thus, not having last hitting or items... it's irrelevant as it's not fun to watch people buy items or last-hit. What could be fun, however, is to watch very different types of strategies being executed that noone has thought of before.
My belief is still that Heroes is not a good esport though as it lacks the mechanical/control-based skillcap. Everyone also seems to confuse this concept as they believe it is good thing that the game is easier to play. However, those people are confusing skillcap with entrance barrier/learning curve. It is indeed important for the game to be easy to learn if you want a lot of players, however, for it to be a succesful esport, you also need to see "plays"/"mechanics" from pro's that super hard to execute. These are the types of plays that facinates viewers and which people make highlight videos of. With the current design of champions, you simply do not see that in Heroes, and that's why I believe Heroes right now is a pretty bad esport.
Also note that this is completley irrelevant to shared XP, removal of masteries, runes and items. This is purely about how the specific champions are designed in the player vs player interaction, which unfortuantely is really bad in my opinion.
As someone who wasn't excited for this game at all but got an alpha invite the simplest thing I can say about the game is that it is fun. Most MOBAs I have found boring with the exception being Smite and that probably has to do with the 3rd person perspective (I loved WoW arenas) so for this one to be fun right off the bat was pretty huge.
With that said now that I have played it for a few months I must say that I am feeling less and less satisfied with my wins and more apathetic with my losses. There does seem to be some depth with the talent tree and hero combos but it's difficult for an average joe like myself to consistently get a team of 5 together in voice chat to just theorycraft and test these ideas.
On November 02 2014 04:16 xDaunt wrote: All of the crapping on this game by people just strikes me as being ridiculously uninformed. The foundation of a great game is clearly there. The objectives-oriented gameplay is going to result in far more team fights than in LoL or DoTA, which could very easily lead to HotS being a superior spectator game. The only thing holding HotS back at present is hero design. Most of the current roster of heroes are fairly rudimentary and uninteresting when compared to what you'll find in LoL. However, I'm willing to chalk this deficiency up to the game being so new. I strongly suspect that future heroes will have more dynamic skillsets.
I think a lot of the crapping here comes less from people that think the game is "bad" (after all, virtually no one has played it) and more from people that feel like some of the content coming out on TL is a bit...aggressively gung-ho on pushing the game (that no one has played) for esports.
Im sure plenty of people have played it. Didn't they even have a free alpha weekend?
I just don't understand how so many reputable names are backing/enjoying the game. I found it very slow paced and clunky, but maybe its better now. We'll see how the game has evolved I suppose at the Blizzcon matches.
Just a big marketing move from Blizzard. No way is a guy like Idra, who is in his studies really contemplating going pro at this game. Also Naniwa at a teamgame what ? They prob all got a nice amount of cash.
I agreed that HOTS is fun to play but for whatever reasons it's sub-par when spectating. Everything just feels......so slow, and inconsequential, and heroes take ages to kill.