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On March 16 2014 10:11 Ryuu314 wrote:
Haven't played it yet, so I can't speak to the gameplay aspect of it, but the whole mounts thing looks...stupid. I get that part of it is another cash stream for Blizzard as people can buy mounts, plus there's some gameplay value to it since different heroes have different mount abilities and such, but visually it just looks lame. Diablo riding a freaking rainbow pony? Really?
You call it lame, but that is a total win in my book.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Considering they have guns, lasers, nukes and magic in the game I don't think its that weird or too different from the game theme. Plus it adds to the cartoony feel, I think it doesn't fit in a game like HoN(where they did do it and it looked terrible) or Dota but that it fits fine in HOTS or LoL.
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Yeah honestly for all of the things in HotS that bother me, rainbow ponies and stuff really doesn't
But i think the mounts look very silly sometimes, and the implementation is questionable
Like the Gryphon Rider switches between a horse and a gryphon
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On March 16 2014 13:18 Shaella wrote:
Yeah honestly for all of the things in HotS that bother me, rainbow ponies and stuff really doesn't
But i think the mounts look very silly sometimes, and the implementation is questionable
Like the Gryphon Rider switches between a horse and a gryphon
Its an alpha, its possible that there will be different options no? Like a Vulture for SC characters and maybe the gyphen guy gets a flock of gryphen around him.
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I think this game will surpass dota 2 in popularity but might not contend with LoL. They can if they really wanted to, but I don't think blizzard will go that route.
There's a number of things that lead to success in this genre. If you look at LoL, it was the first f2p dota-like games out there, surpassing HoN at the time. With the dying MMO genre and the emergence of F2p, LoL had the right business model to grow into the most played game today. In the end, it comes down to good business models and marketing for the success of this game and Blizzard definitely has the manpower to do that.
Most of the attractions in LoL is not the actual gameplay itself, it is the accessibility, art, and champions. The champions in LoL really cater to a young audience by having the appearance of early teens. The artstyle really helps with this too with bright colors and baby like environments... lol.
The thing that is a little unattractive in this game compared to LoL is the heroes. These heroes are old, middle aged, even hundreds of years old. Not to mention hairy and short. In Blizz's hero library, there's not many young looking characters. They can still introduce small cute creatures though since they have a few of those.
This kind of marketing is why you don't see dota 2 in the same light as LoL. The appearance of the game itself is for adults and older teens. You can say mechanics like last hitting and how hard it is to play dota 2 is not friendly, but I think a game like LoL is quite complex if you're talking about 10 year olds playing it. Think about it, it's a moba game. remember the first time you played and you didn't know what this laning crap is? I have a nephew thats barely 10 and I've seen him ball in a 1v3 and win with barely any health. If there is a young community in dota 2 and nobody is good at last hitting, then it should be quite even. So I don't think game play is as impactful as marketing regarding how well the game will do. If the game has the right heroes that look cool and many boobies, people will join. More than likely, the kids that grow older in league might migrate over to dota or this game. I'm thinking this game.
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On March 16 2014 13:18 Shaella wrote:
Yeah honestly for all of the things in HotS that bother me, rainbow ponies and stuff really doesn't
But i think the mounts look very silly sometimes, and the implementation is questionable
Like the Gryphon Rider switches between a horse and a gryphon
you really need to make up things to complain about during an alpha?
the gryphon rider doesnt get a mount
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On March 16 2014 14:27 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 13:18 Shaella wrote:
Yeah honestly for all of the things in HotS that bother me, rainbow ponies and stuff really doesn't
But i think the mounts look very silly sometimes, and the implementation is questionable
Like the Gryphon Rider switches between a horse and a gryphon you really need to make up things to complain about during an alpha? the gryphon rider doesnt get a mount
Yeah he does.
I've seen it.
The gryphon disappears and he rides a horse
And then he demounts and the gryphon re-appears .-.
I'm like 100% sure i saw it on Wheat's stream
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This game looks pretty interesting to me as someone who's never played a DotA style game. Much more simplified and it the map objectives seem to distinguish the experience enough from the others that I will want to try it. Plus I get to play as Starcraft characters, so I think I may be down to try this.
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On March 16 2014 14:21 Lokian wrote:
I think this game will surpass dota 2 in popularity but might not contend with LoL. They can if they really wanted to, but I don't think blizzard will go that route.
There's a number of things that lead to success in this genre. If you look at LoL, it was the first f2p dota-like games out there, surpassing HoN at the time. With the dying MMO genre and the emergence of F2p, LoL had the right business model to grow into the most played game today. In the end, it comes down to good business models and marketing for the success of this game and Blizzard definitely has the manpower to do that.
Most of the attractions in LoL is not the actual gameplay itself, it is the accessibility, art, and champions. The champions in LoL really cater to a young audience by having the appearance of early teens. The artstyle really helps with this too with bright colors and baby like environments... lol.
The thing that is a little unattractive in this game compared to LoL is the heroes. These heroes are old, middle aged, even hundreds of years old. Not to mention hairy and short. In Blizz's hero library, there's not many young looking characters. They can still introduce small cute creatures though since they have a few of those.
This kind of marketing is why you don't see dota 2 in the same light as LoL. The appearance of the game itself is for adults and older teens. You can say mechanics like last hitting and how hard it is to play dota 2 is not friendly, but I think a game like LoL is quite complex if you're talking about 10 year olds playing it. Think about it, it's a moba game. remember the first time you played and you didn't know what this laning crap is? I have a nephew thats barely 10 and I've seen him ball in a 1v3 and win with barely any health. If there is a young community in dota 2 and nobody is good at last hitting, then it should be quite even. So I don't think game play is as impactful as marketing regarding how well the game will do. If the game has the right heroes that look cool and many boobies, people will join. More than likely, the kids that grow older in league might migrate over to dota or this game. I'm thinking this game.
Except LoL's average player is a twenty-something year old. LoL's innovation is multi-fold (as you mentioned), but you focus on the wrong aspects. The business model, of course, is the most important. What is also extremely important is Riot's removal of all the "anti-fun" aspects of MOBAs like loss of gold on death, denial of creeps, dodgy line of sight/vision in the jungle, unintuitive interactions and mechanics that Dota players love about their game, but also create a massive information and mechanical barrier of entry for new players. LoL is primarily intuitive, easy to pick up for people of any age or gaming background, and addicting. This game design (or "lack of depth" as many Dota players traditionally claimed) is what attracted MMO players and soccer mums to the game. Riot's third success is their recognition of esports and what is required to grow their game as a sport rather than Blizzard's mess with ESPORTS.
Anyway, HotS will not overtake LoL or Dota 2 unless it is considerably more fun and approachable for the average casual gamer.
PS: The "childish" graphics in LoL helps attracts non-gamers, especially girls, to LoL, not 10 year olds as you claimed. It's also far more financially attractive to Riot to have mums with money play the game than 10 year olds.
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On March 16 2014 16:26 1ntrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 14:21 Lokian wrote:
I think this game will surpass dota 2 in popularity but might not contend with LoL. They can if they really wanted to, but I don't think blizzard will go that route.
There's a number of things that lead to success in this genre. If you look at LoL, it was the first f2p dota-like games out there, surpassing HoN at the time. With the dying MMO genre and the emergence of F2p, LoL had the right business model to grow into the most played game today. In the end, it comes down to good business models and marketing for the success of this game and Blizzard definitely has the manpower to do that.
Most of the attractions in LoL is not the actual gameplay itself, it is the accessibility, art, and champions. The champions in LoL really cater to a young audience by having the appearance of early teens. The artstyle really helps with this too with bright colors and baby like environments... lol.
The thing that is a little unattractive in this game compared to LoL is the heroes. These heroes are old, middle aged, even hundreds of years old. Not to mention hairy and short. In Blizz's hero library, there's not many young looking characters. They can still introduce small cute creatures though since they have a few of those.
This kind of marketing is why you don't see dota 2 in the same light as LoL. The appearance of the game itself is for adults and older teens. You can say mechanics like last hitting and how hard it is to play dota 2 is not friendly, but I think a game like LoL is quite complex if you're talking about 10 year olds playing it. Think about it, it's a moba game. remember the first time you played and you didn't know what this laning crap is? I have a nephew thats barely 10 and I've seen him ball in a 1v3 and win with barely any health. If there is a young community in dota 2 and nobody is good at last hitting, then it should be quite even. So I don't think game play is as impactful as marketing regarding how well the game will do. If the game has the right heroes that look cool and many boobies, people will join. More than likely, the kids that grow older in league might migrate over to dota or this game. I'm thinking this game. Except LoL's average player is a twenty-something year old. LoL's innovation is multi-fold (as you mentioned), but you focus on the wrong aspects. The business model, of course, is the most important. What is also extremely important is Riot's removal of all the "anti-fun" aspects of MOBAs like loss of gold on death, denial of creeps, dodgy line of sight/vision in the jungle, unintuitive interactions and mechanics that Dota players love about their game, but also create a massive information and mechanical barrier of entry for new players. LoL is primarily intuitive, easy to pick up for people of any age or gaming background, and addicting. This game design (or "lack of depth" as many Dota players traditionally claimed) is what attracted MMO players and soccer mums to the game. Riot's third success is their recognition of esports and what is required to grow their game as a sport rather than Blizzard's mess with ESPORTS. Anyway, HotS will not overtake LoL or Dota 2 unless it is considerably more fun and approachable for the average casual gamer. PS: The "childish" graphics in LoL helps attracts non-gamers, especially girls, to LoL, not 10 year olds as you claimed. It's also far more financially attractive to Riot to have mums with money play the game than 10 year olds.
You forget that every kid that signs up for LoL will put their age 18+. If you haven't seen it, look at minecraft and look how young those gamers are... literally, you can see them in conventions. Minecraft is one of the biggest games out there. It's the same thing with League. The majority of gamers are young kids that have the time, not people who have to go to work.
My nephew is 10 and he plays as much as he can. Whenever he comes to my place, he would beg me to let him use my computer to play league. That's all he does. He has about 20 or so friends from his school that he plays with. And he's not a nerd or anything... He plays sports and has a so called gf lol....I'll bet its the same elsewhere too.
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Does anyone with an extensive background in Dota stream this? I've poked around but haven't found that perspective.
Also, question:
The term "objective based" gameplay is getting thrown around to describe HotS. Can anyone clarify what that actually means?
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looks like there are no items in HotS
think Blizzard is underestimating the fun factor of item builds in terms enhancing gameplay and building a character
HotS is looking like an ultra casual MOBA that is going to be very lacking in depth
many people might consider LoL a casual MOBA with a low skillcap but there's plenty of depth to it at the pro level
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On March 16 2014 17:27 Kishin2 wrote:
Does anyone with an extensive background in Dota stream this? I've poked around but haven't found that perspective.
Also, question:
The term "objective based" gameplay is getting thrown around to describe HotS. Can anyone clarify what that actually means?
go and watch tbs video on it, he explains it very well
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On March 16 2014 17:27 Kishin2 wrote:
Does anyone with an extensive background in Dota stream this? I've poked around but haven't found that perspective.
Also, question:
The term "objective based" gameplay is getting thrown around to describe HotS. can anyone clarify what that actually means?
Bluntly put, lets say we call Roshan, Towers and raxes/base objectives in Dota or Baron, Dragon and Turrets/Bases/inhibs in Lol.
in HOTS you have to do stuff like collect gold(and give it to an NPC), skulls, kill creeps to obtain creeps and much more to obtin a variety of buffs and make stuff happen(like summon a ghost ship or a flesh golem). I don't see it being very competitive but I thought that about LoL too a few years ago and I was very wrong. It will be as competitive as the community decides it will be(similair to Hearthstone). HOTS doesn't play like Dota and LoL and that is fine, its quite a different game.
PS: The "childish" graphics in LoL helps attracts non-gamers, especially girls, to LoL, not 10 year olds as you claimed. It's also far more financially attractive to Riot to have mums with money play the game than 10 year olds.
I don't get want to get offtopic but having stuff like Nurse Akali and every female character be a stick figure with big boobs tends to attract a lot of kids too not to mention that most characters in LoL are humanoid characters, which sell better then ''monsters''.
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On March 16 2014 21:56 Kupon3ss wrote:
minigamemoba
You have to come up with a better name than that, now.
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On March 16 2014 16:50 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 16:26 1ntrigue wrote:On March 16 2014 14:21 Lokian wrote:
I think this game will surpass dota 2 in popularity but might not contend with LoL. They can if they really wanted to, but I don't think blizzard will go that route.
There's a number of things that lead to success in this genre. If you look at LoL, it was the first f2p dota-like games out there, surpassing HoN at the time. With the dying MMO genre and the emergence of F2p, LoL had the right business model to grow into the most played game today. In the end, it comes down to good business models and marketing for the success of this game and Blizzard definitely has the manpower to do that.
Most of the attractions in LoL is not the actual gameplay itself, it is the accessibility, art, and champions. The champions in LoL really cater to a young audience by having the appearance of early teens. The artstyle really helps with this too with bright colors and baby like environments... lol.
The thing that is a little unattractive in this game compared to LoL is the heroes. These heroes are old, middle aged, even hundreds of years old. Not to mention hairy and short. In Blizz's hero library, there's not many young looking characters. They can still introduce small cute creatures though since they have a few of those.
This kind of marketing is why you don't see dota 2 in the same light as LoL. The appearance of the game itself is for adults and older teens. You can say mechanics like last hitting and how hard it is to play dota 2 is not friendly, but I think a game like LoL is quite complex if you're talking about 10 year olds playing it. Think about it, it's a moba game. remember the first time you played and you didn't know what this laning crap is? I have a nephew thats barely 10 and I've seen him ball in a 1v3 and win with barely any health. If there is a young community in dota 2 and nobody is good at last hitting, then it should be quite even. So I don't think game play is as impactful as marketing regarding how well the game will do. If the game has the right heroes that look cool and many boobies, people will join. More than likely, the kids that grow older in league might migrate over to dota or this game. I'm thinking this game. Except LoL's average player is a twenty-something year old. LoL's innovation is multi-fold (as you mentioned), but you focus on the wrong aspects. The business model, of course, is the most important. What is also extremely important is Riot's removal of all the "anti-fun" aspects of MOBAs like loss of gold on death, denial of creeps, dodgy line of sight/vision in the jungle, unintuitive interactions and mechanics that Dota players love about their game, but also create a massive information and mechanical barrier of entry for new players. LoL is primarily intuitive, easy to pick up for people of any age or gaming background, and addicting. This game design (or "lack of depth" as many Dota players traditionally claimed) is what attracted MMO players and soccer mums to the game. Riot's third success is their recognition of esports and what is required to grow their game as a sport rather than Blizzard's mess with ESPORTS. Anyway, HotS will not overtake LoL or Dota 2 unless it is considerably more fun and approachable for the average casual gamer. PS: The "childish" graphics in LoL helps attracts non-gamers, especially girls, to LoL, not 10 year olds as you claimed. It's also far more financially attractive to Riot to have mums with money play the game than 10 year olds. You forget that every kid that signs up for LoL will put their age 18+. If you haven't seen it, look at minecraft and look how young those gamers are... literally, you can see them in conventions. Minecraft is one of the biggest games out there. It's the same thing with League. The majority of gamers are young kids that have the time, not people who have to go to work. My nephew is 10 and he plays as much as he can. Whenever he comes to my place, he would beg me to let him use my computer to play league. That's all he does. He has about 20 or so friends from his school that he plays with. And he's not a nerd or anything... He plays sports and has a so called gf lol....I'll bet its the same elsewhere too.
I have the same experience. When I worked as a substitute teacher for a class of 9 year olds, most of the boys played LoL and talked about how hot Miss Fortune was.
I personally think we are going to start seeing a larger rift between games that are made for children vs games that are made for adults. Gaming is still relatively new in the mainstream which is why we have players of all ages playing all sorts of games, but I think that's going to change. People like to think of games as either hardcore or casual, but truly it's about what age group the game is made for. Just because you have very little time to spend on gaming and you only play casually doesn't mean you have to play shitty dumbed-down games.
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On March 16 2014 22:52 Animzor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 16:50 Lokian wrote:On March 16 2014 16:26 1ntrigue wrote:On March 16 2014 14:21 Lokian wrote:
I think this game will surpass dota 2 in popularity but might not contend with LoL. They can if they really wanted to, but I don't think blizzard will go that route.
There's a number of things that lead to success in this genre. If you look at LoL, it was the first f2p dota-like games out there, surpassing HoN at the time. With the dying MMO genre and the emergence of F2p, LoL had the right business model to grow into the most played game today. In the end, it comes down to good business models and marketing for the success of this game and Blizzard definitely has the manpower to do that.
Most of the attractions in LoL is not the actual gameplay itself, it is the accessibility, art, and champions. The champions in LoL really cater to a young audience by having the appearance of early teens. The artstyle really helps with this too with bright colors and baby like environments... lol.
The thing that is a little unattractive in this game compared to LoL is the heroes. These heroes are old, middle aged, even hundreds of years old. Not to mention hairy and short. In Blizz's hero library, there's not many young looking characters. They can still introduce small cute creatures though since they have a few of those.
This kind of marketing is why you don't see dota 2 in the same light as LoL. The appearance of the game itself is for adults and older teens. You can say mechanics like last hitting and how hard it is to play dota 2 is not friendly, but I think a game like LoL is quite complex if you're talking about 10 year olds playing it. Think about it, it's a moba game. remember the first time you played and you didn't know what this laning crap is? I have a nephew thats barely 10 and I've seen him ball in a 1v3 and win with barely any health. If there is a young community in dota 2 and nobody is good at last hitting, then it should be quite even. So I don't think game play is as impactful as marketing regarding how well the game will do. If the game has the right heroes that look cool and many boobies, people will join. More than likely, the kids that grow older in league might migrate over to dota or this game. I'm thinking this game. Except LoL's average player is a twenty-something year old. LoL's innovation is multi-fold (as you mentioned), but you focus on the wrong aspects. The business model, of course, is the most important. What is also extremely important is Riot's removal of all the "anti-fun" aspects of MOBAs like loss of gold on death, denial of creeps, dodgy line of sight/vision in the jungle, unintuitive interactions and mechanics that Dota players love about their game, but also create a massive information and mechanical barrier of entry for new players. LoL is primarily intuitive, easy to pick up for people of any age or gaming background, and addicting. This game design (or "lack of depth" as many Dota players traditionally claimed) is what attracted MMO players and soccer mums to the game. Riot's third success is their recognition of esports and what is required to grow their game as a sport rather than Blizzard's mess with ESPORTS. Anyway, HotS will not overtake LoL or Dota 2 unless it is considerably more fun and approachable for the average casual gamer. PS: The "childish" graphics in LoL helps attracts non-gamers, especially girls, to LoL, not 10 year olds as you claimed. It's also far more financially attractive to Riot to have mums with money play the game than 10 year olds. You forget that every kid that signs up for LoL will put their age 18+. If you haven't seen it, look at minecraft and look how young those gamers are... literally, you can see them in conventions. Minecraft is one of the biggest games out there. It's the same thing with League. The majority of gamers are young kids that have the time, not people who have to go to work. My nephew is 10 and he plays as much as he can. Whenever he comes to my place, he would beg me to let him use my computer to play league. That's all he does. He has about 20 or so friends from his school that he plays with. And he's not a nerd or anything... He plays sports and has a so called gf lol....I'll bet its the same elsewhere too. I have the same experience. When I worked as a substitute teacher for a class of 9 year olds, most of the boys played LoL and talked about how hot Miss Fortune was. I personally think we are going to start seeing a larger rift between games that are made for children vs games that are made for adults. Gaming is still relatively new in the mainstream which is why we have players of all ages playing all sorts of games, but I think that's going to change. People like to think of games as either hardcore or casual, but truly it's about what age group the game is made for. Just because you have very little time to spend on gaming and you only play casually doesn't mean you have to play shitty dumbed-down games.
What ? Who stops you from playing the cool not dumbed-down games ? Right now there are so many titles on the market that you can litteraly pick and choose whatever you want. From "Flappy bird" to Dark souls... All you have to do is pick-up and play.
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With the lack of items or individual levels but the choice of various 'talents' at each level, I think that despite still being somewhat 'dumbed down' compared to DotA or LoL, there could still be some depth to the talent choices much like in a game like Awesomenauts where what you can get is dependent on the hero you are playing, and can lead to some interesting synergy.
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On March 16 2014 14:43 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 14:27 IdrA wrote:On March 16 2014 13:18 Shaella wrote:
Yeah honestly for all of the things in HotS that bother me, rainbow ponies and stuff really doesn't
But i think the mounts look very silly sometimes, and the implementation is questionable
Like the Gryphon Rider switches between a horse and a gryphon you really need to make up things to complain about during an alpha? the gryphon rider doesnt get a mount Yeah he does. I've seen it. The gryphon disappears and he rides a horse And then he demounts and the gryphon re-appears .-. I'm like 100% sure i saw it on Wheat's stream
Falstad doesn't get a mount. He gains the flight ability with his Z button (aka: the mount button.) I haven't seen him on a horse.
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EPT
