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On May 29 2015 00:09 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 20:54 TokO wrote:
What's people's experience with Abaclone Kaelthas? My current hypothesis is that he's too lackluster without talents, but I don't have any experience. Does a cloned KT W immediately set off the real KT's W? So like could a KT DW, W then clone DW, W to ignite the W left over by the real KT? That could be some pretty decent AOE burst.
I would be really surprised if that was the case, but I could be wrong.
@Toko: the Abathur clone does bonus damage, which is what FeyFey is refering to. So having access to good AOE and CC is a good choice imo.
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On May 29 2015 00:06 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 09:30 siri wrote:On May 28 2015 07:01 xDaunt wrote:
Here's some proof that Rank 1s can be newbs. Just had a game on Sky Temple where my team had Anub, Muradin (me), Abathur, Kael, and Malfurion. Other team had ETC, Valla, Tychus, BW, and Azmodan. Neither Valla nor Tychus took their Giant Killer talents. Both are Rank 1. Take a guess how that turned out for them. Building tychus with giants is terrible. Especially if he took odin. Which is why you should alter your build to be most viable against the enemy team. In this case with that team comp I would have gone vamp, rapid fire, lazer and giant killer. I don't have the exact numbers on hand but I imagine if you're free to fire on the tanks Giant Killer would give like a bonus 3% HP damage per second.
Basically this. Not all heroes have one viable/optimal build for all games. Deviation from the cookie cutter builds is often necessary for optimal play, which is why copying talent builds without really understanding them is a bad thing. This is particularly true for ranged assassins.
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It does take a while to learn the ins and outs and viability and non-viability of various builds though. The only reason I know that Tychus one is because he's my far and away most played hero and I've done a ton of experimental builds on him. In certain situations I even talent his dash in conjunction with his auto attack build. People have a mental model of how far Tychus' E dashes for and when you talent it you can suddenly escape and chase in situations your opponent didn't think were possible. However I still think 99% of the time taking his Q at 1 is better.
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On May 29 2015 00:52 Tenks wrote:
It does take a while to learn the ins and outs and viability and non-viability of various builds though. The only reason I know that Tychus one is because he's my far and away most played hero and I've done a ton of experimental builds on him. In certain situations I even talent his dash in conjunction with his auto attack build. People have a mental model of how far Tychus' E dashes for and when you talent it you can suddenly escape and chase in situations your opponent didn't think were possible. However I still think 99% of the time taking his Q at 1 is better.
Actually, I had an epiphany with Tychus yesterday. Map was Tomb of the Spider Queen, which is by far my best map. I always take Zeratul there because he is the god of rotation-heavy maps. Unfortunately, I was last pick, and a player on the other team took him. So I took Tychus instead and just roamed with him like I normally do with Zeratul. He's a damned good ganker, and I more or less controlled the game with him like I would playing Zeratul. It makes sense when you think about Tychus's kit, but I had never used him that way (and playing Tychus is something that I've only started doing in the past month or so).
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At level 1 if you unload a full Q (w/ talent) on someone and W them as well you do a pretty huge amount of damage. He's a fantastically well rounded hero with good gank ability, good escape, good lane presence, good team fight, good single damage. He's pretty much a jack of all trades assassin. Maybe a bit lacking in AOE damage but even then at high levels his W starts doing absurd damage.
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I'm always torn on some of Tychus's talent choices. At lvl 4 Q range is quite nice, but melting point does work and makes clearing so efficient. Then when going auto attack the lvl 20 laser upgrade is great, but so is Nexus Frenzy. Any advice on what you find best?
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On May 29 2015 00:38 Wuster wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 29 2015 00:09 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 20:54 TokO wrote:
What's people's experience with Abaclone Kaelthas? My current hypothesis is that he's too lackluster without talents, but I don't have any experience. Does a cloned KT W immediately set off the real KT's W? So like could a KT DW, W then clone DW, W to ignite the W left over by the real KT? That could be some pretty decent AOE burst. I would be really surprised if that was the case, but I could be wrong. @Toko: the Abathur clone does bonus damage, which is what FeyFey is refering to. So having access to good AOE and CC is a good choice imo.
Ah, thanks for mentioning that, wasn't aware that the clone got 20% ability power. However, surely that should be an argument for champions that have 3 nukes as opposed to 2 in their basic abilities being better, no?
I'm interested in figuring out more about it though.
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On May 29 2015 01:38 Gon wrote:
I'm always torn on some of Tychus's talent choices. At lvl 4 Q range is quite nice, but melting point does work and makes clearing so efficient. Then when going auto attack the lvl 20 laser upgrade is great, but so is Nexus Frenzy. Any advice on what you find best?
I find MP more map dependent. If you go auto attack build just throwing a W then auto attacking the wave down is still pretty efficient. MP is really good for poking at a building and walking away. So on maps where that opportunity presents itself fairly often I take MP. Spider Queen is a good example. Blackhearts is a good example where you don't push the base nearly as much. I like to take Q range if I'm against a team that I know have either good disengage or good engage. The range really does add a layer of safety to Tychus to be able to do some poke damage which he lacks outside of his W.
-edit-
Also if you're facing off against a promote heavy lineup I take MP. Since promote is pretty meta right now that can happen. I also sometimes take it if I'm forced into lane (generally in QM) against a super heavy pusher like Zagara or Azmo.
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Melting Point is too good to pass up at Level 4. It gives Tychus instant wave clear and turns him into a real pusher threat.
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I don't know if I'd go that far. On hotslogs taking his Q at 4 (in Masters) is more popular than his W.
-edit-
Promoted to tank
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On May 29 2015 01:39 TokO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2015 00:38 Wuster wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 29 2015 00:09 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 20:54 TokO wrote:
What's people's experience with Abaclone Kaelthas? My current hypothesis is that he's too lackluster without talents, but I don't have any experience. Does a cloned KT W immediately set off the real KT's W? So like could a KT DW, W then clone DW, W to ignite the W left over by the real KT? That could be some pretty decent AOE burst. I would be really surprised if that was the case, but I could be wrong. @Toko: the Abathur clone does bonus damage, which is what FeyFey is refering to. So having access to good AOE and CC is a good choice imo. Ah, thanks for mentioning that, wasn't aware that the clone got 20% ability power. However, surely that should be an argument for champions that have 3 nukes as opposed to 2 in their basic abilities being better, no? I'm interested in figuring out more about it though.
It's probably a preference thing at that point. But KT does a lot of damage already and personally utility is always good.
Disclaimer: I've never played Abathur, just my thoughts on who I'd clone. Overall though, it should depend on the specific engagement as others have mentioned. Maybe you do just want to nuke sometimes, other times you want control, or even extra heals.
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On May 28 2015 05:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 05:06 Big G wrote:
In all of my post-patch games I've never felt confident enough to take Give 'em the Axe over Stoneform.
Just do it. You have such a gigantic HP pool with Avatar that you have plenty of time to disengage if the enemy team focuses on you. And if the enemy team does focus its stuff on you, then your team probably will be mauling its backline.
So I went ahead and took your advice. It's true that Muradin is hitting like a truck with all this and while he doesn't have Stoneform to pop in an emergency, it's not so different to how you would have played him pre-16 anyways. So you're right, it wasn't so bad.
I tried this build out on a 33 minute Blackheart Bay game where I had 7 deaths (2 were really stupid at the end and I had a few early deaths while I remember how to play Muradin again, seriously been months since I've touched him). So I'm confident that Stoneform wasn't essential to staying alive.
Here's what I used, what do you guys pick?
W - W - Battle Momentum - W - Avatar - Thunderstrike - Axe - Hardened?
I thought about Skull Cracker at 7 instead of momentum, but wasn't sure.
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Apparently I'm the only one that likes Landing Momentum (as in, after the recent buff). 
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On May 29 2015 03:55 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 05:23 xDaunt wrote:On May 28 2015 05:06 Big G wrote:
In all of my post-patch games I've never felt confident enough to take Give 'em the Axe over Stoneform.
Just do it. You have such a gigantic HP pool with Avatar that you have plenty of time to disengage if the enemy team focuses on you. And if the enemy team does focus its stuff on you, then your team probably will be mauling its backline. So I went ahead and took your advice. It's true that Muradin is hitting like a truck with all this and while he doesn't have Stoneform to pop in an emergency, it's not so different to how you would have played him pre-16 anyways. So you're right, it wasn't so bad. I tried this build out on a 33 minute Blackheart Bay game where I had 7 deaths (2 were really stupid at the end and I had a few early deaths while I remember how to play Muradin again, seriously been months since I've touched him). So I'm confident that Stoneform wasn't essential to staying alive. Here's what I used, what do you guys pick? W - W - Battle Momentum - W - Avatar - Thunderstrike - Axe - Hardened? I thought about Skull Cracker at 7 instead of momentum, but wasn't sure.
Reverberation
Crowd Control
Battle Momentum
Avatar
Thunderstrike
Axe
Hardened Shield
You want Battle Momentum so that you can maximize W spam to more frequently proc Axe. I also find that the combination of Crowd Control and Battle Momentum makes Rewind unnecessary and inefficient. You won't have the mana to support it, and you'll be spamming W so damned much that Rewind doesn't add much.
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I'm gunna play the brawler Muradin when I get home. I remember theorycrafting the build after the notes were launched but kept forgetting to actually do it.
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Rewind is more for having a second jump if you mess up. It is of course better if you take piercing bolt on 7 instead of battle momentum. On the other hand you faceroll any ranged asassin with rewind before they come out of the stuns. You have to port ~ 1 more time per game with it though.
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On May 29 2015 05:19 FeyFey wrote:
Rewind is more for having a second jump if you mess up. It is of course better if you take piercing bolt on 7 instead of battle momentum. On the other hand you faceroll any ranged asassin with rewind before they come out of the stuns. You have to port ~ 1 more time per game with it though.
The second jump usually comes up naturally with Battle Momentum by the time that you need it. If you take Hardened Shield, it almost certainly won't even be necessary.
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On May 28 2015 21:39 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2015 17:15 Unattended Cake wrote:
Newbie here. I started playing last Friday, and I got the Stimpack bonus the next day. Suddenly I'm in the 20's, and I haven't even seen half of the roster in action yet. So, my question to people is: when did you all start playing Hero League? As soon as you hit 30? I feel like I only know how 5'ish heroes work, and even then only in one kind of variation each. Just seems to be coming up fast is all.
Gold, on the other hand, that's not happening as quick as I'd like. Haha. you shouldn't give a damn about the level. it's just a way of "progress" that is really no indication for anything. you need 10 heroes for heroleague anyways so it takes some time to get enough gold for that. (or you buy one of the bundles). if you want to dive into hero league, try reading this. imo, you should at least have a basic understanding about what every heroe does and what you can roughly expect from a team composition. but it's np if you have a solid roster of fotm decent heroes and are comfortable with picking missing roles. you'll learn by playing. e: if you get yelled at and/or you're unsure about stuff, upload a replay and post it here. we will help you.
Hm... alrighty then. Thanks for the advice!
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Hey guys, I just started playing this game. It's been pretty fun.
I'm looking for some buddies to play with and level up with that sweet exp bonus. I have moba experience from lol so I kinda know and kinda don't know what I'm doing in this game.
Also curious what streams or youtubers are popular or good for guides/educational stuff. Thanks.
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On May 30 2015 02:03 nobodywonder wrote:
Hey guys, I just started playing this game. It's been pretty fun.
I'm looking for some buddies to play with and level up with that sweet exp bonus. I have moba experience from lol so I kinda know and kinda don't know what I'm doing in this game.
Also curious what streams or youtubers are popular or good for guides/educational stuff. Thanks.
Grubby!
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EPT
