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8748 Posts
On March 29 2015 00:07 Lokian wrote:
if you guys want to play the same game with the same meta with the same staples every single game, that's great. its more fun for me to try one hero at a time
I don't understand what you're contrasting here. You're literally picking the same hero every single game and either forcing your team to build a team around you or opening the door for your team to not draft with any intelligence at all. How is that better than the guy who plays 10 popular heroes with a variety of utility? You may see each popular tank/damage/support as interchangeable but people actually play a variety and are trying to pick the specific one that's best according to the other picks and the map.
Last patch I was always picking Jaina in a situation where most people would pick Nazeebo and I made it work. She was better in some ways and worse in some ways and I played to her strengths and my teams figured it out and it worked. If you know what specific role Murky can fill and you can see that being an important role for your team winning the game, then go for it. But if you pick him regardless just to find out what he can manage in a random situation, then that's a level of effort in the draft that most teammates are not comfortable with. It's fine to have favorite heroes or heroes that you're currently figuring out but you need to compromise that with an intelligent draft. Play Murky if your team would benefit from some small subset of heroes -- don't play Murky in place of literally any other hero.
You don't have to care what people are drafting in other games. It doesn't matter how popular a hero is. Just make an intelligent pick for yourself. At the very least have more than one hero that you're interested in at a time so you can fill very different roles as they're called for. It's not an easy task figuring out which hero pick improves your team's chances of winning the most but you're not even trying.
I actually look forward to seeing how people play unusual picks. I assume they know something I don't and I'm eager to learn from their example. But knowing that there are people like you who actually don't know shit and have zero intelligence behind their pick and are shitting on my draft and using my game as a total experiment is really depressing.
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On March 28 2015 06:26 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:I also really miss all chat  . Don't understand why it's not there, it's teammates where the toxicity comes from anyway. I want to compliment someone on a nice kill or laugh about a dumb death.
After playing three years with LoL, I have to ask: are you sure?
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Mexico2170 Posts
I feel like what you are saying is that you don't like to play the top heroes which would make every game the same? Always fighting agaisn't the same heroes and stuff. Which is an understandable point. However, playing just Murky, or just one hero for that matter, is pretty bad honestly. It's not as if you can't win withouth a Warrior, but it will be more difficult for you and your team to win. Chances are, you will lose.
The "I'm the rank 15 so it works" would be fine, if you didn't get like 3 times more point by winning than what they take away from you when losing, meaning that even with a negative win/loss ratio, you can still go up in ranks.
The msot improtant difference in Hero league, is that you have the chance to make a good team composition, you have the oportunitty to gain an edge by outdrafting your oponents. Why then chosee to pick a bad one?
For example, I "main" Arthas, which isn't in the best spot right now (isn't in the worse though). If i need to play a tank, I usually pick him, because I like it more than the "top tier" tanks like ETC. However, If my team already has 2 tanks, and no DPS, I won't pick Arthas as much as I like him, because this is a team game, and I don't want to risk having less chances to win, and hurting the experience of other people in the process. This is a team game, you shouldn't be selfish.
That being said, would a "quickmatch" ranked would be cool? Yeah, but I don't think it is anywhere near the pipeline sadly.
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EDIT: Oh, and about that guy that misses all chat. Don't worry! soon they will implement a buttom that will mute ALLL your team mates! That way you will miss team chat too! How awesome is that?
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On March 29 2015 01:33 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 00:07 Lokian wrote:
if you guys want to play the same game with the same meta with the same staples every single game, that's great. its more fun for me to try one hero at a time I don't understand what you're contrasting here. You're literally picking the same hero every single game and either forcing your team to build a team around you or opening the door for your team to not draft with any intelligence at all. How is that better than the guy who plays 10 popular heroes with a variety of utility? You may see each popular tank/damage/support as interchangeable but people actually play a variety and are trying to pick the specific one that's best according to the other picks and the map.
The idea is, by not factoring in counterpicking, popular strategies, just conservative ideology in general, new gameplay, possibly 'fun' gameplay or even challenging, can be achieved rather than repeat and improve. When a meta is established and the word gets out from the 'pros' or "some' statistics, there's a high amount of sheep followers that do the same thing and further reinforced the rule that a certain kind of play is acceptable. You see this everywhere, people copy decks, builds, etc, even though theres a decent amount other viable builds out there. This is how meta can shift, because there's more to the game than what's established and gradually change because of how a group is lead by celebrities, mass media, forums, etc.
This leaves little room for variety in game-play. Even though balance changes are implemented, the majority of people will always base their acceptance on what was established before, which is a given. My issue is that it's slow and not many people like change. For example, murky got a decent buff but his acceptance won't change until people start trying to prove that he's actually OK. Rather than waiting for everyone's approval, I'll do that now.
The reason I like to pick one hero in ranked, especially an unpopular one that was recently changed is because I want to determine for myself if what everyone claims is true, in every kind of combination (no healer, no tanks, whatever.) Once I'm done with that, I'd probably move onto a different hero. For me, it's easier to keep track of a certain hero if I work on one at a time. I do play for winning, and if I think there's absolutely no chance we can win, then yeah. Last murky nerf was disgusting and I had to not pick him even though it went against my ideals. It was that bad. The way I see it now, there's always some chance we can win because there's a huge unknown in solo-queue of how your team-mates will play, and I use that to justify picking whatever I want. I know that to get the Best chances, you would have to conform to what everyone thinks is right. but I am still not convinced, for myself, and not by stats, that a team without healers or tanks won't have a great shot at winning if they did their best and not second-guess different tactics.
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On March 29 2015 02:48 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 01:33 NonY wrote:On March 29 2015 00:07 Lokian wrote:
if you guys want to play the same game with the same meta with the same staples every single game, that's great. its more fun for me to try one hero at a time I don't understand what you're contrasting here. You're literally picking the same hero every single game and either forcing your team to build a team around you or opening the door for your team to not draft with any intelligence at all. How is that better than the guy who plays 10 popular heroes with a variety of utility? You may see each popular tank/damage/support as interchangeable but people actually play a variety and are trying to pick the specific one that's best according to the other picks and the map. The idea is, by not factoring in counterpicking, popular strategies, just conservative ideology in general, new gameplay, possibly 'fun' gameplay or even challenging, can be achieved rather than repeat and improve. When a meta is established and the word gets out from the 'pros' or "some' statistics, there's a high amount of sheep followers that do the same thing and further reinforced the rule that a certain kind of play is acceptable. You see this everywhere, people copy decks, builds, etc, even though theres a decent amount other viable builds out there. This is how meta can shift, because there's more to the game than what's established and gradually change because of how a group is lead by celebrities, mass media, forums, etc. This leaves little room for variety in game-play. Even though balance changes are implemented, the majority of people will always base their acceptance on what was established before, which is a given. My issue is that it's slow and not many people like change. For example, murky got a decent buff but his acceptance won't change until people start trying to prove that he's actually OK. Rather than waiting for everyone's approval, I'll do that now. The reason I like to pick one hero in ranked, especially an unpopular one that was recently changed is because I want to determine for myself if what everyone claims is true, in every kind of combination (no healer, no tanks, whatever.) Once I'm done with that, I'd probably move onto a different hero. For me, it's easier to keep track of a certain hero if I work on one at a time. I do play for winning, and if I think there's absolutely no chance we can win, then yeah. Last murky nerf was disgusting and I had to not pick him even though it went against my ideals. It was that bad. The way I see it now, there's always some chance we can win because there's a huge unknown in solo-queue of how your team-mates will play, and I use that to justify picking whatever I want. I know that to get the Best chances, you would have to conform to what everyone thinks is right. but I am still not convinced, for myself, and not by stats, that a team without healers or tanks won't have a great shot at winning if they did their best and not second-guess different tactics.
Dress it up all you want, but autopicking one hero every game in ranked play -- especially such a niche hero -- is the behavior of a troll.
If you want to experiment like that, go do it in QM. You'll see more team composition variety there anyway.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On March 29 2015 02:48 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2015 01:33 NonY wrote:On March 29 2015 00:07 Lokian wrote:
if you guys want to play the same game with the same meta with the same staples every single game, that's great. its more fun for me to try one hero at a time I don't understand what you're contrasting here. You're literally picking the same hero every single game and either forcing your team to build a team around you or opening the door for your team to not draft with any intelligence at all. How is that better than the guy who plays 10 popular heroes with a variety of utility? You may see each popular tank/damage/support as interchangeable but people actually play a variety and are trying to pick the specific one that's best according to the other picks and the map. there's a huge unknown in solo-queue of how your team-mates will play, and I use that to justify picking whatever I want. I know that to get the Best chances, you would have to conform to what everyone thinks is right. but I am still not convinced, for myself, and not by stats, that a team without healers or tanks won't have a great shot at winning if they did their best and not second-guess different tactics.
You say you can't trust how your teammates will play so that justifies also being one of those guys who picks a random hero that doesn't mesh with the team further making people not trust how teammates will play? That sounds great. You are just increasing that unknown and making it worse for everyone else.
I agree that the meta will change over time and the pros for sure don't have everything figured out, but there's a difference in trying new things and having fun to see what works vs. being that guy on the team who ignores the team's needs and best chance for winning and picks murky instead of a tank or whatever is needed for the team composition. Most people consider that being a troll, not being innovative.
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I play all my games the best I can. I've been called that countless amount of time when I pick murky, but when we win, what does that make me? a try-hard troll? What other labels do you have for playing solo-queue? Isn't the experience you are looking for in team league? Where everything is pre-set?
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The only redeeming value of Murky-only players is their scarcity. The far bigger scourge is all of the newb Nova players out there. Someone needs to put out a PSA explaining why she sucks and why she is a niche pick.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On March 29 2015 04:01 Lokian wrote:
I play all my games the best I can. I've been called that countless amount of time when I pick murky, but when we win, what does that make me? a try-hard troll? What other labels do you have for playing solo-queue? Isn't the experience you are looking for in team league? Where everything is pre-set?
Putting effort into games and playing the best you can is great, but it doesn't matter as much if you don't start off by putting your team in the best position possible in the draft, and picking murky regardless of team comp is not doing that. If you are determined to play a hero without consideration of the team then play quick match. Hero league is about teamwork and coordinating with your team to try to field the better heroes than your opponent or counterpick them, and then go into the game with intentions of winning.
Don't get me wrong, this is not against murky specifically, and I've seen him do well in games before. But picking him with the intention of trying to prove everyone wrong about the meta will only cause animosity in the team right off the bat, which is unwanted, and thus the calls of troll. All the meta experimenting should be done in a premade or in quick match where people don't care about which heroes are picked (there are some who complain nonstop but nothing to do about them) and just care about playing the best you can, which seems to be what you keep saying you want.
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I think the majority of players have no issue with people picking nonstandard picks. For warriors for awhile now the only one I have heard people grumble about is Sonnya in hero league.
With assasins and support it is pretty much the same except for when someone picks a single support of Tyrande or Tassadar.
By picking Murky every game you aren't challenging some established norm because the game is very nonfocused now. In fact the only thing that I would say is 100% going to happen in a hero league game right now is you will get a Sylvanas. I say this because today I had a game without Valla, two without ETC, and two without Uther and they are pretty much the characters I see in almost every hero league game.
So play Murky, but you are definitely playing against what team league is about pretty much the same as if you joined a game and refused to do anything but solo lane to prove that solo laning is better than working as a team.
I'd say go get a team and join a team league where you can just play Murky every game and have your set static strategy free experience where you aren't ruining other people's attempts to actually play the game but coming up with a group of playing for ways to utilize Murky within the concept of each map and team make up.
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Yeah definitely don't go into hero league only playing a single hero. Please consider that there are 9 other players in the game who also want to play the game their way, and demanding that you play it your way every time is rather selfish. At the very least ask your teammates in hero select if they are alright with trying a different strategy. Because if you run a no support murky comp, and your teammates are not cooperating, then you aren't proving anything anyways.
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Hey, talking about non-meta stuff. I've been playing Sonya and even made her HL debut on my account.
Before the patch Sonya was on free week and i enjoyed playing her, unlike the other times she was on free week and i was noob. So i bought her.
I was level 5 Sonya before the last free week and was ok with never playing her, but then i tried and changed my mind.
Playing with no talent gate and after the (quite old) Leap nerf i came up with a Wrath of the Berserker style.
It goes like this, i will call it Thrall Sonya, since she is played as a bruiser (not even an off-tank) and can get decent dps but no cc. For a "melee assassin" she is tanky anyway, so that would be her advantage.
It goes like this:
War Paint/block -> W -> W -> WotB -> W -> Imposing presence/nerves of steel -> hardened shield
Its not good at all, why would you ever pick Sonya over other heroes that have a similar role and some cc? But i don't think its terrible, can work.
But after the last patch i figured the buff is quite interesting, she can use stuff while on Whirlwind. I never realized how bad it was that she could not do it.
So i came up with the Illidan Sonya (don't try this if you are new or you just die like all new Illidans out there), you play her kinda like Illidan:
Block/Shot of fury -> Boon of the ancients -> Ferocious healing -> Leap -> Life funnel -> Nerves of steel/Imposing presence -> Hardened Shield.
Why would you ever pick her over Illidan? She can take more burst, is immune to cc for 4 seconds after she engages and Leap stuns. The point is that she is very disruptive and if you let her survive for too long she will not only have done enough damage, but she will have tanked a lot due to life stealing. Only in the later stages of the game though (just like Illidan). She is vulnerable after her E (because of her positioning and nothing else), but you never really wanna hit a hero with 30% shields and/or hardened shield active. If she lives long enough to E again (and you have the fury if you engaged with leap or took enough damage) you prolly done enough.
Works better with Healer + Tassadar on deep diver compositions. You need a team that engages hard and you will die in every lost fight. Worth it.
What you guys think? I know its not new, but you can see the buff is quite relevant. Her HotsLogs talent tree is a big mess, i think she is a hero that must be explored. Or maybe she is just bad enough that we have no adequate reference in high level games.
I bet she is a bit underrated (since many would call her trash).
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Are you supposed to not lose any points for losing in hero league low rank 44? All three of my losses so far - 0 points, is it a feature?
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On March 29 2015 19:27 RiZu wrote:
Are you supposed to not lose any points for losing in hero league low rank 44? All three of my losses so far - 0 points, is it a feature?
Sounds like a bug to me.
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I have another PSA to put out: when drafting in hero league, pay attention to how much CC your team has. I feel like a huge chunk of my losses comes from my team drafting poorly and having inadequate CC (especially stuns). And for the love of god, quit taking Malfurion when your team needs CC and someone like Uther is available.
Speaking of Uther, he is such a boss now. He is easily my favorite support. He has CC for days with his new talents. If the other team takes Illidan, just counterpick Uther and laugh. Uther shits on every melee assassin so hard, because he can dump out 7.5 seconds of stuns and slows, plus shrink ray, in a fight. It almost isn't fair.
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Anybody has run into a bug where you can't pick talents like you didn't have them unlocked? Happened to me today once when playing Brightwing.
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Yes this bug has been around for a very long time but it's been while since it happened. It's a server bug and most likely other people had it at the same time (I had it once today and hadn't had it for months).
Oh and in other news sylvanas is completely broken. Her passive is a freewin if you're ahead because the other team has no defense and her ult is absolutely godlike. She has great mobility, she melts tanks. I don't see what she doesn't have in fact. I hope it won't be the same for every new hero... she is in every single game already.
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She's in every game because she is sylvanas 
I think she is very strong, but I hope they don't nerf her trait. She is also very squishy and not goot at all agaisn't cloaked heroes, so there's that.
How does people been building her? I usually pick:
tier1: Increased Q range/reduced w cooldown.
Tier 2:Envenom
Tier 3:This is a very interesting one... I usually pick shadow dagger heals to have more sustain, or minions explode when you kill them to wreack lanes on some maps. But for example, the one that empowers your basic atacks could be pretty good, because you are spamming Q all day, so thats a perma 25% basic atack damage buff.
Tier4: Silence Arrow.
Tier5: This one is interesting too. The first one makes your atacks and habilities slows heroes, which is good when you are chasing. or escaping. However, the second one increases your movement speed when you Q, which is basycally what you do all day, and gives you more speed tan the other one slows, so basically this is better. I pick Spell shield when playing against Nova, and the Q hits two enemies when I pick the "minions explode on death one". It is pretty useful too.
Tier 6:Blood for Blood. Although the talent that makes enemies vulnerable may be better for damage, I like the sustain B4B gives. Oh, and the slow.
Tier 7: Blink or the better heroic, depending on enemy team comp.
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Melts tanks ? She is rather on the low side of hero damage for an Assassin. And if she disables a fort, she is basically out of the teamfight.
But pretty much every hero gets problematic if they are ahead in levels. For me she is well balanced and makes other heroes shine that are currently not that used. She could need a Manacost increase added though, to prevent her soloing a fort while the rest of the team keeps you busy.
Got the keep destroyed message, looked down there. Saw Sylvanas and around 30 fricking archers. xD
So Vikings and Sylvanas pretty good additions, just need a tiny bit of tweaking.
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EPT
