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On October 22 2013 03:31 Spaylz wrote:LoL has nowhere near 100 million players, don't be ridiculous. This link is from last year, and it states 32 million active players per month. It was 2012, so I would place the current amount of active players at around 35 million per month, 40 at the absolute maximum. Sure, you can count all the people who aren't active anymore, but it's hardly relevant, only those who still log in and play frequently are important.
I'm assuming it's exaggerated as a lot of people are gonna have multiple smurfs.
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On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years  . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different.
One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ).
And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever.
+ Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
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Ill give my 2cents... cause i can
Blizzards last 4 releases have been pretty terrible... for that reason ill be holding off on trying this new Dota clone... however if its decent Ill play it...
and the game will succeed because its a Blizzard game... and they have a VERY loyal following.
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Blizzard is so late to the ARTS scene, I wonder if they can leave their mark.
Not to mention, their community involvement seems minimal, and many Starcraft II players/viewers can attest to that. I hope, if they decide to market this as a competitive ARTS, they understand what they have to compete with in regards to community involvement and interaction.
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On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 22 2013 06:06 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible. + Show Spoiler +
All those rocks instead of a jungle... don't tell me tthat Dustin Browder has worked with the WoW team and could possibly work on HotS2
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We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game.
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On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game.
I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero.
But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting.
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On October 22 2013 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game. I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero. But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting.
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Techies
Maybe?
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On October 22 2013 08:02 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game. I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero. But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting. http://dota2.gamepedia.com/TechiesMaybe?
Perhaps but I was thinking they'd be less of a utility champion and more of a traditional bruiser champ with different stances similar to how Udyr in LoL functions with each Viking taking turns being in front but with all of them sharing a health pool.
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On October 22 2013 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 08:02 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game. I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero. But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting. http://dota2.gamepedia.com/TechiesMaybe? Perhaps but I was thinking they'd be less of a utility champion and more of a traditional bruiser champ with different stances similar to how Udyr in LoL functions with each Viking taking turns being in front but with all of them sharing a health pool.
No Smash character more fun to play than ice climbers. I'd play Lost Vikings as a character anytime!
Heck, league already has the 4 abilities style in place. q: Erik, w: baleog, e: olaf r: ultimate
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On October 22 2013 08:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 08:02 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game. I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero. But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting. http://dota2.gamepedia.com/TechiesMaybe? Perhaps but I was thinking they'd be less of a utility champion and more of a traditional bruiser champ with different stances similar to how Udyr in LoL functions with each Viking taking turns being in front but with all of them sharing a health pool. No Smash character more fun to play than ice climbers. I'd play Lost Vikings as a character anytime! Heck, league already has the 4 abilities style in place. q: Erik, w: baleog, e: olaf r: ultimate
I dunno about that. Jigglypuff is pure fun in a pink fluffy ball.
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On October 22 2013 08:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 08:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 22 2013 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 08:02 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 22 2013 07:41 Shousan wrote:We need Erik, Baleog and Olaf for this game. I was trying to come up with some way that you could play all 3 at once via some kind of Ice Climbers type hero. But yea the possibility for champions in this game are so exciting. http://dota2.gamepedia.com/TechiesMaybe? Perhaps but I was thinking they'd be less of a utility champion and more of a traditional bruiser champ with different stances similar to how Udyr in LoL functions with each Viking taking turns being in front but with all of them sharing a health pool. No Smash character more fun to play than ice climbers. I'd play Lost Vikings as a character anytime! Heck, league already has the 4 abilities style in place. q: Erik, w: baleog, e: olaf r: ultimate I dunno about that. Jigglypuff is pure fun in a pink fluffy ball.
Yeah, but the feeling of furious vengeance you feel when you win after one of your climbers dies is Ghost Rider levels of awesome!
But the jiggle wiggle (as I like to call it) when casuals get scared and just kind of float as much as they can with Jigglypuff is also pretty damn epic
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On October 21 2013 23:19 Arrinao wrote:Show nested quote +How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Sure and that's why it has 100.000.000 players:D Or do you actually think they all came from DotA? Show nested quote +Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having. Heroes of the Storm is most definitely NOT like Hearthstone. I'm amused at how often people bring up the Hearthstone argument to point out that Blizzard is capable of making a game that isn't directly connected to one of their franchises and it still shines. While Hearthstone is nice and pretty well made game, from the marketing point of view, despite being free to play, it actually has nothing to do with HoTS and is much closer to recent Blizzard games such as SC2 and D3. Why? Because it was released into an environment with basically 0 competition on it's level at all. No one else makes AAA RTS's, or ARPG's as well as no one else makes TCG's on this level. The actualy quality of the game has been thus somewhat obscured with no substitutes on the market. By this i'm not by any means implying that HS is bad, what I'm trying to emphasize here is that game quality doesn't really have to be a factor for people to switch over. There are better MMO's than WoW, but WoW is still the top dog. While you are probably true with the exposure of popularity of Blizzard's brands being bigger than Riot's I don't quite follow why are you using as an argument for HoTS. Riot has all it's exposure in one game. If you really expect all three fanbases of Blizzard to immediately jump ship for this MOBA, then you can as well forget it. Also I don't really understand why you polarize the communities, when they have such a huge overlap. While this indoubtedly cause some people to leave for Blizzard MOBA, I don't think there will be any massive exodus simply because just like with WoW and other MMO's released after it, people didn't switch since they already invested a lot in the game they loved. Show nested quote +You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW. No there wasn't any real saturation with Everquest and UO. Back then MMO's were niche games crying in the corner of the market with their steep hardware requirements (high speed internet connection) that very few people could overcome. WoW was actually first to came when the broadband started to become mainstream, and capitalized on it (search a Forbes article from Erik Kain detailing the success of WoW). You need to understand that in a success of such measure as WoW or LoL the actual quality of the game and marketing, while important, are just some of the factors. The most important factor is simply being at the right place at the right time to fill a position in the market and define it around itself.
Well, as others have addressed (with one providing a link to actual data), 100m players is simply an exaggeration.
And as for your overarching point regarding SC2, D3, Hearthstone, and the lack of AAA titles within the genres of those games when the games were released, have you ever considered that might have something to do with Blizzard and the polish their games have? I don't think you get what I am saying. What is to say that DotA 2 and LoL are actually AAA titles? In regards to LoL, while Riot invests a lot of money into the game, it is not retroactively applied to development and production value. The game doesn't look much better than WC3 DotA. While some of that is obviously due to practicality, a good deal of it is also because they just aren't Blizzard. Blizzard has unrivaled art and design direction and their games routinely look and play better than their competition. If you have any understanding of industry recruitment standards, you will know that Blizzard is a level above the rest. They are like Pixar vs. other animation studios. They also routinely market the living crap out of their releases.
Before WoW, we had Everquest, DaoC, UO, FFXI, Lineage, etc. Those were your "AAA" titles in the MMORPG genre. Then WoW came along and totally redefined our understanding of scale and size. It redefined our understanding of what was possible in the genre. To this day, it remains largely unchallenged despite being a dinosaur in terms of age. Why is it that AAA title after AAA title challenge it and fail? Because contrary to what you say, those games are not better than WoW.
Do you know why you can say that there wasn't any real saturation in the MMORPG market at the time? Because you are saying it in hindsight. WoW redefined what saturation meant. It shattered previous ideas of target audience. It changed what it meant to be a AAA MMORPG.
There are a lot of TCGs in the market right now. It's true that most of them are android, iOS, browser based f2p games or in markets other than the US market (Japan's TCG market is huge). But, I don't think that we can just ignore physical TCGs either. Fans of the genre know what a good TCG looks like. They know how a good TCG should play. There is a reason why TCG players with prior experience generally do well in Hearthstone. Players invested in physical TCGs or other TCGs are not going to drop their hobby for a bad game. A lot of them are already not jumping on the bandwagon because they think Hearthstone is too simple, too dependent on luck. The actual quality of the game has NOT been somewhat obscured with no substitutes on the market because it's competing with more than your assumed market of PC-based TCGs.
And as for Heathstone not being directly connected to any of Blizzard's other franchises, the actual name is Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft. How about this. You make an adventure game called Shakuras: Legacy of the Protoss, start advertising it everywhere, and when Blizzard's lawyers come knocking on your door, you tell them the game is not directly connected to any of Blizzard's franchises and see how that goes for you. Hearthstone is directly connected to Warcraft. Like I said, Blizzard is making a TCG and borrowing the strength of their existing IP to be the hook and bait. It's no different from Heroes of the Storm. Fans of the Warcraft universe will be curious about Hearthstone because of the connection. TCG game fans will be curious about Hearthstone because of the genre. Blizzard and gaming fans in general will be curious because it is a Blizzard game.
Heroes of the Storm is in a similar situation. There is an existing market, Blizzard is joining that market and using their preexisting strength of IP and reputation as leverage. I don't expect every fan of Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo to immediately jump ship to Heroes of the Storm. I do expect millions will. You could say LoL and DotA 2 actually gave Blizzard this chance because they gave Blizzard the opportunity to do what they're good at -- learning, copying, and refining. Now, it's up to Blizzard to see if they can make another game that expands the reach of a genre or our ideas about the limits of gaming.
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On October 22 2013 06:37 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 06:06 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible. + Show Spoiler + All those rocks instead of a jungle... don't tell me tthat Dustin Browder has worked with the WoW team and could possibly work on HotS2
He's the game director of Heroes of the Storm.
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On October 22 2013 14:21 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 06:37 algue wrote:On October 22 2013 06:06 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible. + Show Spoiler + All those rocks instead of a jungle... don't tell me tthat Dustin Browder has worked with the WoW team and could possibly work on HotS2 He's the game director of Heroes of the Storm.
that's presumably why he disappeared from the starcraft scene?
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heroes of the storm ? why not heroes of the stars ? i hate the name
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On October 22 2013 17:34 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 14:21 saddaromma wrote:On October 22 2013 06:37 algue wrote:On October 22 2013 06:06 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible. + Show Spoiler + All those rocks instead of a jungle... don't tell me tthat Dustin Browder has worked with the WoW team and could possibly work on HotS2 He's the game director of Heroes of the Storm. that's presumably why he disappeared from the starcraft scene?
I guess so, but I'm worried about Heroes of the Storm's fate tbh.
Not implying that DB is a bad game designer, but I think he is not great at making e-sports games.
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Well, it's a free game so I guess it'll do more good for Blizzard than harm.
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On October 22 2013 14:21 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 06:37 algue wrote:On October 22 2013 06:06 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2013 03:39 rename wrote:On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different. One day a company will make a MMO, where you level your character up and shit, do raids, have open pvp zones, and safe zones for casuals, and all sorts of MMORPG stuff - and you can also take your character to a dota style arena map where your RPG gear gives you only tiny bonuses; but you can only choose certain spell progressions there ( effectively making several very differently played arena characters avaiable per class ). And they will somehow manage to make both parts fun, interconnected, easily to get into but hard to master, very well balanced, and it will become the both the biggest MMO and biggest moba ever. + Show Spoiler +
probably wont happen
edit:
Actually blizzard is theoretially in a position to make it happen
they just went back to the drawing board with titan, and they will generate some moba experience with Heroes - so they could learn from all the mistakes they will inevitably make with the Heroes of the Storm and make a better "sequel" that gets melded with Titan
They were actually playing around with a Dota map for WoW, so it's entirely possible. + Show Spoiler + All those rocks instead of a jungle... don't tell me tthat Dustin Browder has worked with the WoW team and could possibly work on HotS2 He's the game director of Heroes of the Storm.
LOL.. I don't even need to see gameplay footage to tell you this game is doomed.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/leviathonlx10/PTR%205%202/DefenseoftheAlehouseBG.jpg)
