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On October 21 2013 18:39 majava wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 18:38 majava wrote:On October 21 2013 15:35 Brian333 wrote:On October 21 2013 10:18 DonKey_ wrote:On October 21 2013 07:49 hzflank wrote:On October 21 2013 07:22 DonKey_ wrote:On October 21 2013 07:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2013 00:40 Sufficiency wrote:
Donno what Blizzard is trying to do here. The moba market is saturated as it is. So was the fighting game market (moreso actually) when Super Smash Brothers was released. The niche is the same. People will play Heroes because they want to play with their Blizzard characters, that's why I'll be playing it and I'm not even a big fan of moba games. I don't agree with a lot of what you say here. First off, the fighting games have never had a single title be so dominant over the others that it can compared to what LoL is currently. Secondly, the niche is not the same. SSB targeted a completely different group of individuals than the typical arcade FG player, they went after the casual console Nintendo fanbase. That situation differs from this one because Blizzard is targetting the same casual audience LoL already has, in fact the only defining feature of this blizzard game in the eyes of a casual will be the Blizzard IP that comes with it. The problem is 99% of moba players will not care about WHO a champ is, but HOW his mechanics are in gameplay. I mean do people really expect Blizzard's fanbase, that plays completely different games, and decided to NOT play LoL or Dota2 to suddenly love a Blizzard moba because "wow I can play as Jim Raynor now". That has never been the draw of mobas. Blizzard is the fashionable developer. LoL is currently the fashionable moba game and many people play it just because their friends do. Some of these people will move to the blizzard game just because it is blizzard, and then their friends will follow suit, and then their friends... There are a lot of people who never played D2 or anything similar (torchlight, hellgate) but that bought D3. There are many millions of people who never played an MMO but then bought WoW. Many people who never played SC1 or another macro focused rts play SC2. Many people who never played MTG will play Hearthstone. Many people who have never played lol or Dota will play Hots. 2 problems with what you say. 1st you are taking the audiences of an MMO(WoW) and a dungeon crawler(D3), and saying that they are now going to play this Blizzard moba over all the other successful mobas that have proven themselves simply because its a Blizzard game. I don't buy that at all, these players have most likely already tried a moba like LoL(because f2p) or Dota2 and simply did not find it appealing to them. The important factor here is not how many people try your game with f2p, but how many stick around(which is where D3 becomes an even worse comparison). It seems obvious people will try this f2p Blizzard moba because it is free, but it will not retain these players who either do not like mobas or are already invested in the more popular mobas. 2nd Blizzard is not very fashionable anymore. They used to have a favorable following but now just about every single one of their games has an ever increasing amount of angry players who are dissatisfied with how blizzard is managing their game. Examples being hearthstone(beta key process), starcraft(WCS system), Diablo 3(RMAH and player retention) and WoW(the competitive arena balance). Whether all the hate is justified or not they simply have lost the stainless image they used to have. On October 21 2013 08:13 TheRabidDeer wrote:On October 21 2013 07:22 DonKey_ wrote:On October 21 2013 07:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 21 2013 00:40 Sufficiency wrote:
Donno what Blizzard is trying to do here. The moba market is saturated as it is. So was the fighting game market (moreso actually) when Super Smash Brothers was released. The niche is the same. People will play Heroes because they want to play with their Blizzard characters, that's why I'll be playing it and I'm not even a big fan of moba games. I don't agree with a lot of what you say here. First off, the fighting games have never had a single title be so dominant over the others that it can compared to what LoL is currently. Secondly, the niche is not the same. SSB targeted a completely different group of individuals than the typical arcade FG player, they went after the casual console Nintendo fanbase. That situation differs from this one because Blizzard is targetting the same casual audience LoL already has, in fact the only defining feature of this blizzard game in the eyes of a casual will be the Blizzard IP that comes with it. The problem is 99% of moba players will not care about WHO a champ is, but HOW his mechanics are in gameplay.I mean do people really expect Blizzard's fanbase, that plays completely different games, and decided to NOT play LoL or Dota2 to suddenly love a Blizzard moba because "wow I can play as Jim Raynor now". That has never been the draw of mobas. ... what? The casuals care tons about skins in LoL. They love WHO a champ is. Tons of people eat the lore up. I never played a CCG, and I am sure many others haven't... but people seem to love Hearthstone. I never played an MMO before WoW, and I played the shit out of that game. Just because some didn't play LoL or DotA doesnt mean it is off limits for people. I'm talking about why moba fans play the games they like. They didn't decide to play mobas based off of skins or champion/hero lore, they decided to play mobas based off of gameplay interaction. Skins are a way to monetize your game and keep interest in it, not a way to attract entirely new players to it. Like I said in my other quote I bet their will be quite a few people who will try this game(it's free), but very few who will stay with it. Blizzard is every bit as fashionable as they used to be. You want to know why there is such a fuss about Hearthstone beta access? Because people want to play the game. Do you want to know why people are paying $50 for a beta key to a f2p game? Because people want to play the game. And, do you think that these people are just the previously existing TCG fans? No, a lot of these people probably didn't care at all for the genre before seeing Hearthstone. Regarding D3, I had a conversation amongst a group of my friends a while back -- we all played the game and we all quit. I said at that time that it wasn't that the game IS bad, the problem is the game WAS clearly not finished at released. Since I still keep somewhat up-to-date on gaming news in general, I told them how D3 is now as opposed to at release (Inferno difficulty reduced, MP, Paragon Levels, Hellfire Ring, removal of AH / RMAH, restructuring of loot drops, restructuring of the crafting system) and they unanimously agreed that if the current D3 was the game we got at release, we would probably all still be playing it. Now, with RoS releasing, they have the opportunity to re-release the game that we should've gotten at the start. If they can reclaim the user-base that sustains games of D3's nature, then it's probably still a salvageable situation. Even with how disastrous D3's release was, there is still a lot of good will and hype around RoS. And, with the way this current dev team is handling things, you cannot honestly not have faith in the situation. They scrapped the AH / RMAH system entirely. That takes some real resolve and a genuine dedication to improving their game. Honestly speaking, while BW loyalists will spend all day and all night frothing at the mouth and insulting SC2, the game is not the failure its chicken-little-minded fan-base will suggest it is. A lot of people who had no interest in the RTS genre at least gave the game a try. A lot quit, but that was to be expected. The RTS genre is simply not for everyone. So, in regards to Blizzard's MOBA title, I still think Blizzard has the opportunity to surpass Dota 2 and LoL. How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having. You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW. Blizzard is not known for being innovative. They are known for stealing anything and everything worth stealing and then refining it and polishing it until it shines. WoW stood apart from its competition because the movement / skill system was incredible. Even to this day, you would have a hard time finding a MMORPG with combat more engaging. Even though they slipped up with D3, people that HATE the game and constantly bash it still have nothing but praise for the actual game play. The fluidity in the way characters move, the way controls worked, the way the game actually played was incredible when compared to any other game within the genre. It was fun. Content was the problem. Look at Hearthstone. Again, a tried and true battle system but Blizzard comes along and makes it amazingly fluid, amazingly playable, amazingly streamlined and refined. Now imagine that level of polish on LoL's game play or Dota 2's game play. That is what Blizzard guarantees. Dota 2 was more polished in its beta stage than sc2 is currently. EDIT: Also, many dota players have played the game for 5+ years. It is going to take a lot to make them "jump ship" http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=13563
All that polish.
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I´m actually really hyped to this game, I liked LoL to begin with but I cant stand it anymore and DOTA is way to hard.
I think Blizzard will surprise a lot of people here, brining out some fresh stuff to the Moba genre
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On October 21 2013 19:16 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 19:08 NukeD wrote:
Blizzard should really start making new IPs. They've milked Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo universes long enough imo and in most part for the worse.
Their minimal risk approach, which another poster mentioned in this thread, turned out to be a lot more riskier than Blizzard percieved I think. On one hand they get guaranteed sales, on the other, they got A LOT of flak from their hardcore followers because they had standards that are hard or impossible to please in regard their previous franchises. Attachement people have with those games was going to produce a lot of let downs whichever way they took in designing the sequels.
By taking the said approach they've alienated a lot of fans, including myself, from their company's brand.
If they made a new franchise, they would still get a s***load of sales just because of their name and if that new franchise turned out to be a failed attempt, people wouldnt be so infruriated for "ruining" their beloved games. They could have even got commended for trying out new stuff.
Hate that this thread had generated is a direct consequnce of Blizzard's approach I described above. People are hating on the company for the said reasons, without even giving the game a chance.
Because of that I am trying to look at this release objectively an am for the most part optimistic and will definitelly try it out. You know they are making a new IP, right? New MMO, codename Titan, completely new IP.
Oh ya I forgot about that. Thx.
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If this game has some sort of ladder and stats ill play it (opposed to Dota2 right now). Assuming the game isn`t terrible of course. Gotta be optimistic!
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People always seem to think their own little world applies to everyone else. They don't have hype or aren't interested in the game and neither are their friends so they think everyone else has the same feelings. There's a lot of people that don't play WoW and none of their friends play WoW, they hear that WoW is losing subscribers and claim WoW is dead and dying. It still has several million subscriptions and is crushing a lot of other things out there.
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This game needs Billy the Marine Hero!!
rip o7
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Can't be arsed about not my genre but I can see it may appeal to many.
The recent naming though, hearthstone, harvester of souls, heroes of the storm, heart of the swarm...
I'm not sure if this is some sort of new branding they are trying or just vague.
What will the other games be when legacy of the void comes out? Lethal Verdict? Legion of Vampires?
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How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers.
Sure and that's why it has 100.000.000 players:D Or do you actually think they all came from DotA?
Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having.
Heroes of the Storm is most definitely NOT like Hearthstone. I'm amused at how often people bring up the Hearthstone argument to point out that Blizzard is capable of making a game that isn't directly connected to one of their franchises and it still shines. While Hearthstone is nice and pretty well made game, from the marketing point of view, despite being free to play, it actually has nothing to do with HoTS and is much closer to recent Blizzard games such as SC2 and D3. Why? Because it was released into an environment with basically 0 competition on it's level at all. No one else makes AAA RTS's, or ARPG's as well as no one else makes TCG's on this level. The actualy quality of the game has been thus somewhat obscured with no substitutes on the market. By this i'm not by any means implying that HS is bad, what I'm trying to emphasize here is that game quality doesn't really have to be a factor for people to switch over. There are better MMO's than WoW, but WoW is still the top dog.
While you are probably true with the exposure of popularity of Blizzard's brands being bigger than Riot's I don't quite follow why are you using as an argument for HoTS. Riot has all it's exposure in one game. If you really expect all three fanbases of Blizzard to immediately jump ship for this MOBA, then you can as well forget it. Also I don't really understand why you polarize the communities, when they have such a huge overlap. While this indoubtedly cause some people to leave for Blizzard MOBA, I don't think there will be any massive exodus simply because just like with WoW and other MMO's released after it, people didn't switch since they already invested a lot in the game they loved.
You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW.
No there wasn't any real saturation with Everquest and UO. Back then MMO's were niche games crying in the corner of the market with their steep hardware requirements (high speed internet connection) that very few people could overcome. WoW was actually first to came when the broadband started to become mainstream, and capitalized on it (search a Forbes article from Erik Kain detailing the success of WoW). You need to understand that in a success of such measure as WoW or LoL the actual quality of the game and marketing, while important, are just some of the factors. The most important factor is simply being at the right place at the right time to fill a position in the market and define it around itself.
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I completly agree on the reason for WoW's success.
It came out at the right time and, to this day, has probably the best "controlfeel" of any MMO. Some come close, but WoW is an absolute masterpiece when it comes to fluidity of movement, dmg-feedback and just the general "feel" when controlling your char.
Starcraft 2 is hard to bring into this, because there is no other RTS developed with even close the budget (and legacy). This was diffrent during SC/BW's time which had other AAA RTS competing (iirc Age of Empires, C&CRA, Total Annihilation and tons of lesser knowns like Dark Reign) and only over time proved to be truely superiour, i don't remember the state of RTS around WC3's release (AoE3? AoM? Dawn of War?) so i can't compare this but it for sure felt diffrent and fresh at the time (thats why it pissed many diehard SC/BW fans off :p).
On the other side there is D3... Which was/still is unfinnished, not really tought thru (Auctionhouse) and generally not truely standing out over other Hack'n'slays.
The question is: Can Blizzard still create something truely outstanding? If Hots will not be truely outstanding it won't be able to overcome Lol and Dota 2. Lol and Dota 2 are still changing and growing... It's not like "throw something out there that is about the same quality, the other ARTS possibly will just adapt and improve themselves, it would have to really blow them out of the wather at day 1.
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On October 21 2013 23:19 Arrinao wrote:Show nested quote +How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Sure and that's why it has 100.000.000 players:D Or do you actually think they all came from DotA? Show nested quote +Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having. Heroes of the Storm is most definitely NOT like Hearthstone. I'm amused at how often people bring up the Hearthstone argument to point out that Blizzard is capable of making a game that isn't directly connected to one of their franchises and it still shines. While Hearthstone is nice and pretty well made game, from the marketing point of view, despite being free to play, it actually has nothing to do with HoTS and is much closer to recent Blizzard games such as SC2 and D3. Why? Because it was released into an environment with basically 0 competition on it's level at all. No one else makes AAA RTS's, or ARPG's as well as no one else makes TCG's on this level. The actualy quality of the game has been thus somewhat obscured with no substitutes on the market. By this i'm not by any means implying that HS is bad, what I'm trying to emphasize here is that game quality doesn't really have to be a factor for people to switch over. There are better MMO's than WoW, but WoW is still the top dog. While you are probably true with the exposure of popularity of Blizzard's brands being bigger than Riot's I don't quite follow why are you using as an argument for HoTS. Riot has all it's exposure in one game. If you really expect all three fanbases of Blizzard to immediately jump ship for this MOBA, then you can as well forget it. Also I don't really understand why you polarize the communities, when they have such a huge overlap. While this indoubtedly cause some people to leave for Blizzard MOBA, I don't think there will be any massive exodus simply because just like with WoW and other MMO's released after it, people didn't switch since they already invested a lot in the game they loved. Show nested quote +You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW. No there wasn't any real saturation with Everquest and UO. Back then MMO's were niche games crying in the corner of the market with their steep hardware requirements (high speed internet connection) that very few people could overcome. WoW was actually first to came when the broadband started to become mainstream, and capitalized on it (search a Forbes article from Erik Kain detailing the success of WoW). You need to understand that in a success of such measure as WoW or LoL the actual quality of the game and marketing, while important, are just some of the factors. The most important factor is simply being at the right place at the right time to fill a position in the market and define it around itself.
That bolded line is what bugs me about your statement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Online MTG, which is the absolute quintessential card game is a direct competitor. This recently branched into mobile versions. This shows, specifically, that the model works when blizzard does it.
Don't underestimate them is all I'm saying. Wait for the game to come out and make your decision based on fact and experience, not hearsay and theory.
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On October 21 2013 23:19 Arrinao wrote:Show nested quote +How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Sure and that's why it has 100.000.000 players:D Or do you actually think they all came from DotA? Show nested quote +Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having. Heroes of the Storm is most definitely NOT like Hearthstone. I'm amused at how often people bring up the Hearthstone argument to point out that Blizzard is capable of making a game that isn't directly connected to one of their franchises and it still shines. While Hearthstone is nice and pretty well made game, from the marketing point of view, despite being free to play, it actually has nothing to do with HoTS and is much closer to recent Blizzard games such as SC2 and D3. Why? Because it was released into an environment with basically 0 competition on it's level at all. No one else makes AAA RTS's, or ARPG's as well as no one else makes TCG's on this level. The actualy quality of the game has been thus somewhat obscured with no substitutes on the market. By this i'm not by any means implying that HS is bad, what I'm trying to emphasize here is that game quality doesn't really have to be a factor for people to switch over. There are better MMO's than WoW, but WoW is still the top dog. While you are probably true with the exposure of popularity of Blizzard's brands being bigger than Riot's I don't quite follow why are you using as an argument for HoTS. Riot has all it's exposure in one game. If you really expect all three fanbases of Blizzard to immediately jump ship for this MOBA, then you can as well forget it. Also I don't really understand why you polarize the communities, when they have such a huge overlap. While this indoubtedly cause some people to leave for Blizzard MOBA, I don't think there will be any massive exodus simply because just like with WoW and other MMO's released after it, people didn't switch since they already invested a lot in the game they loved. Show nested quote +You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW. No there wasn't any real saturation with Everquest and UO. Back then MMO's were niche games crying in the corner of the market with their steep hardware requirements (high speed internet connection) that very few people could overcome. WoW was actually first to came when the broadband started to become mainstream, and capitalized on it (search a Forbes article from Erik Kain detailing the success of WoW). You need to understand that in a success of such measure as WoW or LoL the actual quality of the game and marketing, while important, are just some of the factors. The most important factor is simply being at the right place at the right time to fill a position in the market and define it around itself.
100 million players? Thats the best joke i have ever heard bro, maybe 100 million accounts, but that doesnt mean much if the average number of accounts per person is around 3-5 (i guess).
There are enough online cardgames right now, but blizzard has the one with the highest popularity by far. So i really dont see your point, there are other games in the genres you listed, the difference is that when blizzard makes a game EVERYBODY is instantly interested in it . And thats exactly the reason why Hots will be successfull. It probably wont be as huge as league, but you never know..
Hots will only really compete vs league i guess (casual), and you shouldnt forget that many people are pretty angry at riot (eu server, many bugs, bad client, no replays, etc), if riot doesnt step it up i can see a lot of league players switching the game ( if it has a somewhat similar "flow" of the game)
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Where are these supposed data coming from heartstone is so big compared to something like magic the gathering online or just other cardgames? Designwise it's awful compared to other TCG's really, it's just way too simple and other TCG's already have that. I'm curious to see some figures that it's so very popular. If it is I suppose it is because it's an online game only whereas other TCG's often go out of their way to prevent online versions that hurt the real card sells, plus most of them are quite hard to program if rules need to be enforced.
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100 million players? Thats the best joke i have ever heard bro, maybe 100 million accounts, but that doesnt mean much if the average number of accounts per person is around 3-5 (i guess).
Ah the nitpicking, gotta love that. Ok, rasta, I think youre waaay overexaggerationg with the average number of accounts per person but let's leave it at that. It's simply by really far the most popular game right now. Gonna argue against that?
There are enough online cardgames right now, but blizzard has the one with the highest popularity by far. So i really dont see your point, there are other games in the genres you listed, the difference is that when blizzard makes a game EVERYBODY is instantly interested in it . And thats exactly the reason why Hots will be successfull. It probably wont be as huge as league, but you never know.
Hots will only really compete vs league i guess (casual), and you shouldnt forget that many people are pretty angry at riot (eu server, many bugs, bad client, no replays, etc), if riot doesnt step it up i can see a lot of league players switching the game ( if it has a somewhat similar "flow" of the game)
Enough online cardgames you're saying? Hmm now i don't really want to put words in people's mouth but I think i'm gonna speak for a majority here: i don't know any other card game. Maybe they are there. But they sure as hell ain't AAA and don't have any real recognition beyond maybe their very very tight corner of the market. Which actually proves my point. Do you understand it better now?
Now I don't argue that Hots will be succesful. But there is success and success. If you judge success as dethroning LoL and Dota 2, forget it. It's simply too late for that (see the reasons in my previous posts). However I pretty much doubt this is even a point of this project. I think it was merely a very clever marketing move to fill the gaps from the WoW subs decline, that used the rising MOBA trend to unite all of it's three huge fanbases into one game that generates a steady stream of revenue. With that in mind, you can call "sucess" simply standing out of the crowd of the other MOBA's (those after LoL and Dota 2). Which is perfectly feasible.
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lol heroes of the storm? did the guy who named this, are friends with the guy who called rattlesnake international - speed gaming? hahaha
blizzard all stars ( like dota- allstars) is good
heroes of blizzard (like heroes of warcraft) - sounds lame but better than heroes of the freaking storm..
Actually BALLS is better. Actual convo:
Dude 1: "hey, wanna play some balls?"
Dude 2: "sure, lets play balls. Who will you use?"
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On October 22 2013 00:38 Arrinao wrote:Show nested quote +
100 million players? Thats the best joke i have ever heard bro, maybe 100 million accounts, but that doesnt mean much if the average number of accounts per person is around 3-5 (i guess).
Ah the nitpicking, gotta love that. Ok, rasta, I think youre waaay overexaggerationg with the average number of accounts per person but let's leave it at that. It's simply by really far the most popular game right now. Gonna argue against that? Show nested quote +
There are enough online cardgames right now, but blizzard has the one with the highest popularity by far. So i really dont see your point, there are other games in the genres you listed, the difference is that when blizzard makes a game EVERYBODY is instantly interested in it . And thats exactly the reason why Hots will be successfull. It probably wont be as huge as league, but you never know.
Hots will only really compete vs league i guess (casual), and you shouldnt forget that many people are pretty angry at riot (eu server, many bugs, bad client, no replays, etc), if riot doesnt step it up i can see a lot of league players switching the game ( if it has a somewhat similar "flow" of the game)
Enough online cardgames you're saying? Hmm now i don't really want to put words in people's mouth but I think i'm gonna speak for a majority here: i don't know any other card game. Maybe they are there. But they sure as hell ain't AAA and don't have any real recognition beyond maybe their very very tight corner of the market. Which actually proves my point. Do you understand it better now? Now I don't argue that Hots will be succesful. But there is success and success. If you judge success as dethroning LoL and Dota 2, forget it. It's simply too late for that (see the reasons in my previous posts). However I pretty much doubt this is even a point of this project. I think it was merely a very clever marketing move to fill the gaps from the WoW subs decline, that used the rising MOBA trend to unite all of it's three huge fanbases into one game that generates a steady stream of revenue. With that in mind, you can call "sucess" simply standing out of the crowd of the other MOBA's (those after LoL and Dota 2). Which is perfectly feasible.
Well it depends, there are a lot of mobile games that are way more successfull, and browsergames, etc.
And i dont think 3 accounts per person is much of an exaggeration, actually i guess its a lot higher.
You dont know these games cause u arent interested in cardgames, not the other way around. But you know about blizzards hearthstone, if anythign that proves the point that a game with blizzards brand is instantly in everybodys mouth and head.
And no it is not too late, why would it be too late? The thing about games is, that there is always the new "ubergame", the industry isnt stable, there will never be a game that will stay on top forever.
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Probably a filler name before blizzcons begins and they announce the real game. Just doesn't seem legit.. The double HotS meaning kinda holds me back from believing this will be it.
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On October 21 2013 23:41 Velr wrote:
I completly agree on the reason for WoW's success.
It came out at the right time and, to this day, has probably the best "controlfeel" of any MMO. Some come close, but WoW is an absolute masterpiece when it comes to fluidity of movement, dmg-feedback and just the general "feel" when controlling your char.
Starcraft 2 is hard to bring into this, because there is no other RTS developed with even close the budget (and legacy). This was diffrent during SC/BW's time which had other AAA RTS competing (iirc Age of Empires, C&CRA, Total Annihilation and tons of lesser knowns like Dark Reign) and only over time proved to be truely superiour, i don't remember the state of RTS around WC3's release (AoE3? AoM? Dawn of War?) so i can't compare this but it for sure felt diffrent and fresh at the time (thats why it pissed many diehard SC/BW fans off :p).
On the other side there is D3... Which was/still is unfinnished, not really tought thru (Auctionhouse) and generally not truely standing out over other Hack'n'slays.
The question is: Can Blizzard still create something truely outstanding? If Hots will not be truely outstanding it won't be able to overcome Lol and Dota 2. Lol and Dota 2 are still changing and growing... It's not like "throw something out there that is about the same quality, the other ARTS possibly will just adapt and improve themselves, it would have to really blow them out of the wather at day 1.
I quit playing WoW once when the new expansion made my computer lag too much in many of the new zones. I quit a second time once my server had consistent lagginess for over four months. If your game doesn't play well at a very basic level it's worthless. I don't know what it is exactly about Blizzard, but they can make their games feel immediately inviting with very fluid controls.
Anyways, I'm willing to bet that Heroes of the Storm will have more players than Starcraft 2. A moba is the kind of trivial genre that Blizzard can easily get right and even if they can't fully compete with LoL/DotA, they will still do well probably. What other developers are there that have such amazing production values?
The next five years are going to be ridiculous though, imagine a world where the three premier e-sports titles are all different competing mobas.
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Well it depends, there are a lot of mobile games that are way more successfull, and browsergames, etc.
Nitpicking, nitpicking and nitpicking trololo... Does one really need to talk like in kindergarten so people doesn't troll him around? Ok rasta... PC games. Not browsergames, your standard normal classic traditional ordinary common regular PC games.
And i dont think 3 accounts per person is much of an exaggeration, actually i guess its a lot higher.
No offense but if you pull some statistic out of your arse and don't substantiate them with some facts, I have no reason to believe you. What makes you think that your casual Johny would have more than one or two accounts? If he trolls around and get banned often, then still two accounts are enough for him (and we are talking about trolls here who fortunately don't form the majority).
You dont know these games cause u arent interested in cardgames, not the other way around. But you know about blizzards hearthstone, if anythign that proves the point that a game with blizzards brand is instantly in everybodys mouth and head.
And no it is not too late, why would it be too late?
You don't seem to get it yet and just repeat yourself. Read the first sentence you wrote in this quote and repeat it. Now why I ain't interested in cardgames? Because there was nothing to stand out yet. Because all of what was in that area were titles whose recognition didn't reach farther than just to a small community formed around that part of market. Hearthstone was first AAA title there with lots of marketing and brand recognition as not only Blizzard title but Warcraft title. However HoTS won't be first AAA title in MOBA market. The job of popularizing that part of the market and defining it around itself was done by someone else. Still can't see the difference?
The thing about games is, that there is always the new "ubergame", the industry isnt stable, there will never be a game that will stay on top forever.
Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different.
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On October 22 2013 02:38 Arrinao wrote:Show nested quote +
Well it depends, there are a lot of mobile games that are way more successfull, and browsergames, etc.
Nitpicking, nitpicking and nitpicking trololo... Does one really need to talk like in kindergarten so people doesn't troll him around? Ok rasta... PC games. Not browsergames, your standard normal classic traditional ordinary common regular PC games. Show nested quote +And i dont think 3 accounts per person is much of an exaggeration, actually i guess its a lot higher. No offense but if you pull some statistic out of your arse and don't substantiate them with some facts, I have no reason to believe you. What makes you think that your casual Johny would have more than one or two accounts? If he trolls around and get banned often, then still two accounts are enough for him (and we are talking about trolls here who fortunately don't form the majority). Show nested quote +
You dont know these games cause u arent interested in cardgames, not the other way around. But you know about blizzards hearthstone, if anythign that proves the point that a game with blizzards brand is instantly in everybodys mouth and head.
And no it is not too late, why would it be too late?
You don't seem to get it yet and just repeat yourself. Read the first sentence you wrote in this quote and repeat it. Now why I ain't interested in cardgames? Because there was nothing to stand out yet. Because all of what was in that area were titles whose recognition didn't reach farther than just to a small community formed around that part of market. Hearthstone was first AAA title there with lots of marketing and brand recognition as not only Blizzard title but Warcraft title. However HoTS won't be first AAA title in MOBA market. The job of popularizing that part of the market and defining it around itself was done by someone else. Still can't see the difference? Show nested quote +The thing about games is, that there is always the new "ubergame", the industry isnt stable, there will never be a game that will stay on top forever. Which is why WoW is still the top dog MMO after 9 years . Doesn't matter it's getting down now, the other MMO's does too. There was never a bigger MMO and probably won't ever be. And I don't really see anything that should make the situation on MOBA market different.
It has nothing to do with nitpicking at all, there are more successfull games out there, the more casual a game is the more succesfull and marketable is it. I dont know how many people play lol, you just stated 100 million, pls give me the source, cause that seems WAY too high. And if we talk about pc games only, there is minecraft, call of duty, etc
LoL is the biggest esports, thats for sure, not sure about the rest.
Well i guessed (as i said) , ofc there are no real numbers, but from the people i know this is kinda the average. I dont say this has to be accurate, but its more accurate than 100 million unique players.
Its kinda stupid to compare these 2 communities though. LoL had no real competition either (and still has none!), cause its the only well known casual moba out there. Blizzards dota will very likely change that. Idc if you dont have heard from any cardgame, you know why? Cause its a fking niche, but Blizzard doesnt care and makes a tcg and its instant the most popular online card game (at least right now).
Blizzards brand is just way above riots, and they are the first real competition for lol, dota2 is just "too hardcore" for the average league player to even consider a swtich.
Yes Wow was the biggest, but it was Blizzard doing i, not riot. For all the hate Blizzard gets, they are superior to riot in any way possible (at supporting their games).How long is league out there? 3 years? 4 years? It still has no replays. It still has bugs that are known for over a year. It still has massive server issues. Sry but if they dont change, Blizzard can make it work, just cause they are better at that support stuff.
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LoL has nowhere near 100 million players, don't be ridiculous. This link is from last year, and it states 32 million active players per month. It was 2012, so I would place the current amount of active players at around 35 million per month, 40 at the absolute maximum.
Sure, you can count all the people who aren't active anymore, but it's hardly relevant, only those who still log in and play frequently are important.
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