Heroes Large General Thread - Page 31

On October 21 2013 07:49 hzflank wrote:


Blizzard is the fashionable developer. LoL is currently the fashionable moba game and many people play it just because their friends do. Some of these people will move to the blizzard game just because it is blizzard, and then their friends will follow suit, and then their friends...

There are a lot of people who never played D2 or anything similar (torchlight, hellgate) but that bought D3. There are many millions of people who never played an MMO but then bought WoW. Many people who never played SC1 or another macro focused rts play SC2. Many people who never played MTG will play Hearthstone. Many people who have never played lol or Dota will play Hots.

On October 21 2013 08:13 TheRabidDeer wrote:

... what? The casuals care tons about skins in LoL. They love WHO a champ is. Tons of people eat the lore up.

I never played a CCG, and I am sure many others haven't... but people seem to love Hearthstone. I never played an MMO before WoW, and I played the shit out of that game. Just because some didn't play LoL or DotA doesnt mean it is off limits for people.

On October 21 2013 08:05 GizmoPT wrote:


same :p

On October 21 2013 10:18 DonKey_ wrote:

2 problems with what you say.

1st you are taking the audiences of an MMO(WoW) and a dungeon crawler(D3), and saying that they are now going to play this Blizzard moba over all the other successful mobas that have proven themselves simply because its a Blizzard game. I don't buy that at all, these players have most likely already tried a moba like LoL(because f2p) or Dota2 and simply did not find it appealing to them. The important factor here is not how many people try your game with f2p, but how many stick around(which is where D3 becomes an even worse comparison). It seems obvious people will try this f2p Blizzard moba because it is free, but it will not retain these players who either do not like mobas or are already invested in the more popular mobas.

2nd Blizzard is not very fashionable anymore. They used to have a favorable following but now just about every single one of their games has an ever increasing amount of angry players who are dissatisfied with how blizzard is managing their game. Examples being hearthstone(beta key process), starcraft(WCS system), Diablo 3(RMAH and player retention) and WoW(the competitive arena balance). Whether all the hate is justified or not they simply have lost the stainless image they used to have.


I'm talking about why moba fans play the games they like. They didn't decide to play mobas based off of skins or champion/hero lore, they decided to play mobas based off of gameplay interaction. Skins are a way to monetize your game and keep interest in it, not a way to attract entirely new players to it.

Like I said in my other quote I bet their will be quite a few people who will try this game(it's free), but very few who will stay with it.

Blizzard is every bit as fashionable as they used to be. You want to know why there is such a fuss about Hearthstone beta access? Because people want to play the game. Do you want to know why people are paying $50 for a beta key to a f2p game? Because people want to play the game. And, do you think that these people are just the previously existing TCG fans? No, a lot of these people probably didn't care at all for the genre before seeing Hearthstone.

You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW.

So, in regards to Blizzard's MOBA title, I still think Blizzard has the opportunity to surpass Dota 2 and LoL. How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having.

Blizzard is not known for being innovative. They are known for stealing anything and everything worth stealing and then refining it and polishing it until it shines. WoW stood apart from its competition because the movement / skill system was incredible. Even to this day, you would have a hard time finding a MMORPG with combat more engaging. Even though they slipped up with D3, people that HATE the game and constantly bash it still have nothing but praise for the actual game play. The fluidity in the way characters move, the way controls worked, the way the game actually played was incredible when compared to any other game within the genre. It was fun. Content was the problem. Look at Hearthstone. Again, a tried and true battle system but Blizzard comes along and makes it amazingly fluid, amazingly playable, amazingly streamlined and refined. Now imagine that level of polish on LoL's game play or Dota 2's game play. That is what Blizzard guarantees.

On October 21 2013 16:16 DonKey_ wrote:

It's going to take more than polish, to make gamers leave the mobas they have invested in, and currently still happily play, leave for something new.

On October 21 2013 16:16 DonKey_ wrote:

Without getting into every single detail this argument this could spawn. (I worded my last post carefully to avoid this.)
Blizzard does NOT receive nearly the same amount of hype anymore when compared to WoL and D3 levels, the veil of "Blizzard can do no wrong" is gone from then. Are you going to argue against that?


Once again these are not good comparisons because they do not represent how the typical Blizzard brand loyalist is not a moba gamer, and how the current moba gamers are more than satisfied with the current popular titles. It's not just that these moba players play LoL or Dota2, they are at the very least devoted to them. (It's part of the reason tempers flare between the communities when ever one of the 2 are mentioned in the presence of the others fans.)

I would actually argue that that all the money Riot has spent has made them into a company that has more hype than Blizzard can currently muster. Riot's "next game" interests me far more than Blizzard's next sequel, Blizzard comes off as the "Old major league star trying to shore up his former glory" where as Riot still feels like "Rookie of the year".


It's going to take more than polish, to make gamers leave the mobas they have invested in, and currently still happily play, leave for something new.

On October 21 2013 15:35 Brian333 wrote:


Blizzard is every bit as fashionable as they used to be. You want to know why there is such a fuss about Hearthstone beta access? Because people want to play the game. Do you want to know why people are paying $50 for a beta key to a f2p game? Because people want to play the game. And, do you think that these people are just the previously existing TCG fans? No, a lot of these people probably didn't care at all for the genre before seeing Hearthstone.

Regarding D3, I had a conversation amongst a group of my friends a while back -- we all played the game and we all quit. I said at that time that it wasn't that the game IS bad, the problem is the game WAS clearly not finished at released. Since I still keep somewhat up-to-date on gaming news in general, I told them how D3 is now as opposed to at release (Inferno difficulty reduced, MP, Paragon Levels, Hellfire Ring, removal of AH / RMAH, restructuring of loot drops, restructuring of the crafting system) and they unanimously agreed that if the current D3 was the game we got at release, we would probably all still be playing it.

Now, with RoS releasing, they have the opportunity to re-release the game that we should've gotten at the start. If they can reclaim the user-base that sustains games of D3's nature, then it's probably still a salvageable situation. Even with how disastrous D3's release was, there is still a lot of good will and hype around RoS. And, with the way this current dev team is handling things, you cannot honestly not have faith in the situation. They scrapped the AH / RMAH system entirely. That takes some real resolve and a genuine dedication to improving their game.

Honestly speaking, while BW loyalists will spend all day and all night frothing at the mouth and insulting SC2, the game is not the failure its chicken-little-minded fan-base will suggest it is. A lot of people who had no interest in the RTS genre at least gave the game a try. A lot quit, but that was to be expected. The RTS genre is simply not for everyone.

So, in regards to Blizzard's MOBA title, I still think Blizzard has the opportunity to surpass Dota 2 and LoL. How I see it, LoL is like MTG. MTG has an immense presence within the TCG genre and has huge popularity amongst fans of the genre. But, even with that degree of popularity, it's hard for the game to attract people who are not real fans of the genre or casual gamers. Riot has spent a lot of money trying to buy exposure, popularity, and a share of that casual market but they have no where close to the exposure or popularity of Blizzard's brand. Heroes of the Storm is just like Hearthstone. It's Blizzard's chance to give their take on the genre using the strength of their IP as the hook and bait. It's their chance to sell the genre to anyone and everyone who has played a Blizzard game. They have leverage Riot could only dream of having.

You talk a lot about people who have tried other f2p MOBAs and come to the conclusion that the genre is not for them or people who are already invested in other MOBAs. WoW was in the exact same position when it was released. There was a lot of saturation within the genre with Everquest and UO. WoW went on to dominate the market since its release and that domination was only partially because of the existing MMORPG crowd it attracted. It was as successful as it was because of the first-timers it attracted and kept. I had tried MMORPGs before and thought the genre wasn't for me. Then I tried WoW.

Blizzard is not known for being innovative. They are known for stealing anything and everything worth stealing and then refining it and polishing it until it shines. WoW stood apart from its competition because the movement / skill system was incredible. Even to this day, you would have a hard time finding a MMORPG with combat more engaging. Even though they slipped up with D3, people that HATE the game and constantly bash it still have nothing but praise for the actual game play. The fluidity in the way characters move, the way controls worked, the way the game actually played was incredible when compared to any other game within the genre. It was fun. Content was the problem. Look at Hearthstone. Again, a tried and true battle system but Blizzard comes along and makes it amazingly fluid, amazingly playable, amazingly streamlined and refined. Now imagine that level of polish on LoL's game play or Dota 2's game play. That is what Blizzard guarantees.

On October 21 2013 18:38 majava wrote:


Dota 2 was more polished in its beta stage than sc2 is currently.

EDIT: Also, many dota players have played the game for 5+ years. It is going to take a lot to make them "jump ship"

On October 21 2013 18:38 majava wrote:


Dota 2 was more polished in its beta stage than sc2 is currently

On October 21 2013 19:08 NukeD wrote:
Blizzard should really start making new IPs. They've milked Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo universes long enough imo and in most part for the worse.

Their minimal risk approach, which another poster mentioned in this thread, turned out to be a lot more riskier than Blizzard percieved I think. On one hand they get guaranteed sales, on the other, they got A LOT of flak from their hardcore followers because they had standards that are hard or impossible to please in regard their previous franchises. Attachement people have with those games was going to produce a lot of let downs whichever way they took in designing the sequels.

By taking the said approach they've alienated a lot of fans, including myself, from their company's brand.

If they made a new franchise, they would still get a s***load of sales just because of their name and if that new franchise turned out to be a failed attempt, people wouldnt be so infruriated for "ruining" their beloved games. They could have even got commended for trying out new stuff.

Hate that this thread had generated is a direct consequnce of Blizzard's approach I described above. People are hating on the company for the said reasons, without even giving the game a chance.

Because of that I am trying to look at this release objectively an am for the most part optimistic and will definitelly try it out.

On October 21 2013 19:11 Highways wrote:
Blizzard has fallen from the premier PC development company to a laughing stock.

They have zero innovation to anything they do anymore.