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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On October 23 2013 00:03 E.L.V.I.S wrote: hey guys, any idea if the hots moba is gonna be f2p ?(sorry if already asked) and is any date announced ? blizzcon is only way to know for sure. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 22 2013 23:46 Achaia wrote: Very good points. I'm getting a bit tired of all of these people calling D3 a failure when it clearly was quite successful. Of course there were some rough edges that needed ironed out but it seems like they've been pretty responsive to community feedback and they're even removing the despised AH. I understand that a lot of D2 fanboys may not like D3 as much but that doesn't mean it's a failure. I quite enjoyed the game myself as have millions of other people. I'm curious what people's definition of "failure" is because if a huge title like D3 is a failure then like 95% of the gaming industry is screwed. D3 gave me about 200 hours of fun game play. More than 99% of games I've ever bought for as little content it actually has (about 4-8 hours of game play) That is what I consider a resounding success. But people have the mentality of an MBA grad where if it didn't reinvent the wheel then its a failure. 1st place and last place are the only ranks in their minds. No, Diablo 3 did not reinvigorate the genre of multiplayer action RPG relegating that rule to pure singlerplayer fares such as Skyrim and Dragon Age. Because of that, people consider it a failure. Its kind of like the mentality some people have where anyone who doesn't win a grand slam in tennis is not actually an athlete. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 22 2013 23:39 Seraphic wrote: As I have mentioned, it isn't really about Blizzard and it's games. It is how they see things currently that are the problem. Most games Blizzard releases will sell well, no one can doubt that because Blizzard puts a lot into their games, to polish it up. However again, that high of their game releasing will only last for soo long before problems appear. It has been happening with Blizzard a lot recently. I watch Towellie's stream a lot (He's a WoW player on Twitch, pretty much a MMORPG person.) And he mentioned WoW is on the decline because you can only do soo much on such an old engine. Of course WoW is still very big and all so it'll take awhile for the game to hit a low. With SC2 and D3, that has happened already and quite fast. The release for HotS was suppose to last awhile until LotV releases and the SC2 scene has deteriorated so fast I think it won't last that long. D3 has been down for awhile because of the mentioned problems with the game. All of Blizzards games and recent games have all 1 thing in common, they take something from their own universe, and do something with it. I don't hate Blizzard, don't get me wrong. I just have an issue with how they tackle their games now and it just bothers me. SC2 was suppose to be something wonderful and great, and now I cannot stomach it after watching just 2 games. Because of how boring the game is. They are no longer reinventing, they are just... repackaging something they already have. That will only go so far, for a company a lot of people have such high standards for. LoL and DotA 2 are very far ahead, so much so LoL is now considered a sport in the US. And with how Blizzard does their games, they will just add stuff, buff/nerf things the way THEY want, and the way they want players to play. That is not how a game should be balanced or setup. LoL and DotA 2 are made and played by their players, Riot and Valve don't go around forcing their players to play the way they want them to. Blizzard has been doing that exact same thing with SC2 and it's getting rather annoying to hear their excuses. wow, you are pretty much the definition of a blizzard hater...^^ You didnt add anything to the discussion except that YOU think blizzard does pretty much everything wrong. I am not so sure if you play lol, but riot forces the players to play the game like they (riot) want since the beginning. You wont like to hear it, but riot sucks at supporting their game, blizzard doesnt. Thats why the chances arent that bad, blizzard's dota could get a ton of players from riot, dota2 isnt that much of competition (not that casual). | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
The blizzcon schedule mentions somewhere that it's f2p. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
However, having spent the credit they built up and having earned very little with the latest incarnation, it's safe to say that any future releases in that series will be met with a lot more skepticism and a lot less genuine interest. | ||
digmouse
China6331 Posts
On October 23 2013 00:36 Zenbrez wrote: The blizzcon schedule mentions somewhere that it's f2p. http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/event-info/schedule/friday-schedule Get an overview of Blizzard’s newest free-to-play game, Heroes of the Storm (aka The Game Formerly Known as Blizzard All-Stars). Learn about the core game mechanics, hero rosters, reward systems, and the variety of challenges you’ll face on the battlefield. | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On October 23 2013 00:19 Thieving Magpie wrote: D3 gave me about 200 hours of fun game play. More than 99% of games I've ever bought for as little content it actually has (about 4-8 hours of game play) That is what I consider a resounding success. But people have the mentality of an MBA grad where if it didn't reinvent the wheel then its a failure. 1st place and last place are the only ranks in their minds. No, Diablo 3 did not reinvigorate the genre of multiplayer action RPG relegating that rule to pure singlerplayer fares such as Skyrim and Dragon Age. Because of that, people consider it a failure. Its kind of like the mentality some people have where anyone who doesn't win a grand slam in tennis is not actually an athlete. To be fair, I don't think posters such as Seraphic are hating needlessly. While I disagree with his wording I think his points are valid, to an extent. There are a lot of things to be disappointed about concerning Diablo 3, as I said I was also disappointed. I personally believe it was a failure in doing what I wanted it to do. That isn't necessarily Blizzard hating, that's simple disappointment. I can't hold their feelings against them, and for what it's worth I think that Seraphic (just happen to be the dude I'm having interactions with) is willing to discuss and accept things, and that's the kind of conversation we should be encouraging and not attacking. Regardless, if we want to get back on topic I truly think the game is going to be interesting, and I've been relatively pleased with the level of polish that Blizzard has shown their recent games. Even if it's not a game that you feel is balanced, that's extremely hard to get right just out of the box, and even with an extensive beta period it can be difficult. The absolute most important thing about eSports is that the devs are willing to change what isn't working. You don't have to like what they've done with SC2, but they're willing to change it, they've done a lot of what they thought would help the game. They might not be making the changes you or the vocal minority want to see, but they're making changes in an attempt to make it better. Eventually there will be a point where professional play will die if it's not a good eSport, but that's certainly not going to come up before the game is released or finalized. I'll be trying to get a beta key and playing the game despite having put hours and hours into LoL. I have faith that I will get plenty of enjoyment from HotS. I don't necessarily think it will be an eSport caliber game, and I'm sure I will hate the community as much as I hate the LoL and DotA 2 communities at times, but it will be enjoyable and fun to play, I'm sure of that. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 23 2013 01:22 awesomoecalypse wrote: So looking at screenshots, it appears that there is an odd mix of characters in this game. Some of them are the "all-star" iconic NPCs you'd expect, like Zeratul and Kerrigan and Arthas and Thrall. But some of the icons just look like notable units, like the Siege Tank. Using units designed for RTS purposes, like Siege Tanks, in a MOBA could be cool, or could be a complete mess. Like one dude is walking along playing a traditional MOBA style hero like a Diablo Barbarian or something...and then someone else sieges up a few screen away and blows him into oblivion? In fairness, League of Legends has a man on an airplane that sees less altitude than Sajuani. So its not out of the picture so long as they can match the scale propery (obviously not 1:1 but if someone pinks a tank it better take up more room) | ||
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Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
g e n i u s | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 23 2013 01:20 Noobity wrote: To be fair, I don't think posters such as Seraphic are hating needlessly. While I disagree with his wording I think his points are valid, to an extent. There are a lot of things to be disappointed about concerning Diablo 3, as I said I was also disappointed. I personally believe it was a failure in doing what I wanted it to do. That isn't necessarily Blizzard hating, that's simple disappointment. I can't hold their feelings against them, and for what it's worth I think that Seraphic (just happen to be the dude I'm having interactions with) is willing to discuss and accept things, and that's the kind of conversation we should be encouraging and not attacking. Regardless, if we want to get back on topic I truly think the game is going to be interesting, and I've been relatively pleased with the level of polish that Blizzard has shown their recent games. Even if it's not a game that you feel is balanced, that's extremely hard to get right just out of the box, and even with an extensive beta period it can be difficult. The absolute most important thing about eSports is that the devs are willing to change what isn't working. You don't have to like what they've done with SC2, but they're willing to change it, they've done a lot of what they thought would help the game. They might not be making the changes you or the vocal minority want to see, but they're making changes in an attempt to make it better. Eventually there will be a point where professional play will die if it's not a good eSport, but that's certainly not going to come up before the game is released or finalized. I'll be trying to get a beta key and playing the game despite having put hours and hours into LoL. I have faith that I will get plenty of enjoyment from HotS. I don't necessarily think it will be an eSport caliber game, and I'm sure I will hate the community as much as I hate the LoL and DotA 2 communities at times, but it will be enjoyable and fun to play, I'm sure of that. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly disagree with Seraph's feelings of Blizz's recent releases. I might disagree with his conclusions, but if the only thing that D3 didn't get right was that it didn't feel diablo enough then one must accept that that is a particularly tall order to fill since, after 20 years, nothing will ever feel diablo enough other than diablo itself. I don't think any marketing capital was lost at all. I'm 100% certain that the casuals came, played it, enjoyed it, and stopped. Those same people will come and play Heroes of the Storm, and Warcraft 4, and Titan, and so on. They will play for the same reason I watch any Joss Whedon show filled with nerds and bad-ass female characters despite knowing that its not going to be as good as Buffy Season 5. My main gripe is the idea of the game being considered a failure. None of them were. Had SC2 or Diablo3 been released by companies other than Blizzard in a different dress no one would call them failures. Our expectations of what a blizzard release should be is too high is what I'm saying. Skyrim, for example, did not reinvent the RPG. It did not redefine and affected the zeitgheist of how the general public thinks about and views RPGs. It was simply a really really well made RPG. Starcraft2 and Diablo3 are also very well made--and no, they did not reinvent the genre's they are in, but they're not failures just for not doing that. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On October 23 2013 01:22 awesomoecalypse wrote: So looking at screenshots, it appears that there is an odd mix of characters in this game. Some of them are the "all-star" iconic NPCs you'd expect, like Zeratul and Kerrigan and Arthas and Thrall. But some of the icons just look like notable units, like the Siege Tank. Using units designed for RTS purposes, like Siege Tanks, in a MOBA could be cool, or could be a complete mess. Like one dude is walking along playing a traditional MOBA style hero like a Diablo Barbarian or something...and then someone else sieges up a few screen away and blows him into oblivion? Imagine playing as Fenix. Those silly dragoons | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 23 2013 01:47 Darkren wrote: Its gonna be so cool, now when the whole team scream we NEED A TANK, u just pick the tank hero g e n i u s "tanking" from 3-4 screens away  | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On October 23 2013 01:22 awesomoecalypse wrote: So looking at screenshots [...] What screenshots? Link please? :/ | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
He is probably looking at Blizzcon 2011 preview. | ||
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Arrinao
21 Posts
I'll start with your last words: I believe we are both grown men and as such I don't really feel the need to polarize love B/hate B. I can just as easily ask you to stop the fanboyism, but I won't because I actually respect your opinions. Please make it mutual. A.) The MMO market pre-WoW was *huge* really? I don't know what you consider "huge" but let me tell you it simply wasn't huge, because it couldn't. As long as the dial-up modem connection was the most prominent form of internet connection, this branch of market was effectively pushed out from the mainstream. I'm not sure how can I effectively express myself because you seem to still not catch my point but let me put it this way. We can both agree that 99% games especially the AAA ones are most popular at the time of their release and for a short period after. Everquest was popular no doubt, but it's moment in the sun came when the genre was still under high-speed restriction and thus, niche. WoW's momentum matched with the internet revolution, when people actually started to look for the opportunities to really make usage of the power of the broadband. It deserved it, no doubt, at the time it was better than Everquest and Ultima Online, but my point still stands. If the internet revolution didn't happen, WoW would be nowhere near as popular as it was. Everyone in Everquest bailed out on their old product and jumped ship to WoW despite WoW having all the problems it had during release. I do not know what's your point in making stuff up but i this is pretty much a BS. Out of those people who played EQ some left for WoW, but definitely not all of them. But that didn't matter at the time as WoW reached out of the boundaries and grabbed people who had no idea of MMO's. Btw. are you really trying to tell me that WoW came out and EQ servers were empty all of a sudden? Please. As for the WoW killer failings, I already told you the reasons. It was at the right place at the right time letting it to define the genre and solidify it's position as a go to MMO. B.) I can see you are from America so I'll hold back as I have no idea about the situation on your market. But I can assure you that here, in EU, people with no interest in the card games had actually no idea about their existence, even though Magic The Gathering is quite prominent. But for PC TCG's, it's basically the google thing I explained in my previous post. Hearthstone was first to actually remind us there are PC TCG's after all and as such, it had virtually no competition at all. C.) I never said Diablo 3 is failure. What's wrong with you? Anyway Tell me what game in its genre has overtaken it? None. "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." Does it prove it's quality? It recieved massive criticism and a big exodus of players in first months. Does that mean anything to you or not?Tell me how many more twitch views does Diablo 2 have than it? I don't know if this is a trolling atempt or being serious but I rather go with the first choice so I don't have to roll my eyes. Comparing Diablo 3 to Diablo 2, a 13 year old game, to which D3 actually IS a direct successor is... hopefully just a trolling atempt. I thought were having a serious conversation. Please don't do that again. Tell me it didn't sell millions of copies and is poised to do so again? Yes it did sell millions of copies, more precisely 12. And no it isn't, at least initially. Initially it might sell millions, but definitely not 10 as the original did. For the initial sales I predict half of that number at most. How it will be then is written in the stars, but I still doubt it would reach 12 again... You keep talking as if Blizzard has not been down this road over and over again. Everytime they make a new product it's always the same. Command and Conquer was the go to RTS, until Starcraft. Everquest and Ultima Online were the go to MMO, until WoW. And now LoL and Dota2 are the go to MOBA games, I wonder how well that will turn out. The truth of matter is that Blizzard has always "made the mistake" of branching out to a genre already dominated by some big game for the last 5-10 years before blizzard's own title is released. Time and time again blizzard is doubted, and time and time again blizzard succeeds anyway. Command and Conquer was the go to single-player RTS, it's strengths lied in graphics and FMV sequences, as Westwood never really adapt into multiplayer trend. Tell me a genre other than RTS that was "dominated" in a way that a game from a different company made it mainstream and defined it around itself and then Blizzard came and dethroned it. And don't come up with EQ pls, we already discussed that. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 23 2013 04:00 Arrinao wrote: I'll start with your last words: I believe we are both grown men and as such I don't really feel the need to polarize love B/hate B. I can just as easily ask you to stop the fanboyism, but I won't because I actually respect your opinions. Please make it mutual. A.) The MMO market pre-WoW was *huge* really? I don't know what you consider "huge" but let me tell you it simply wasn't huge, because it couldn't. As long as the dial-up modem connection was the most prominent form of internet connection, this branch of market was effectively pushed out from the mainstream. I'm not sure how can I effectively express myself because you seem to still not catch my point but let me put it this way. We can both agree that 99% games especially the AAA ones are most popular at the time of their release and for a short period after. Everquest was popular no doubt, but it's moment in the sun came when the genre was still under high-speed restriction and thus, niche. WoW's momentum matched with the internet revolution, when people actually started to look for the opportunities to really make usage of the power of the broadband. It deserved it, no doubt, at the time it was better than Everquest and Ultima Online, but my point still stands. If the internet revolution didn't happen, WoW would be nowhere near as popular as it was. I do not know what's your point in making stuff up but i this is pretty much a BS. Out of those people who played EQ some left for WoW, but definitely not all of them. But that didn't matter at the time as WoW reached out of the boundaries and grabbed people who had no idea of MMO's. Btw. are you really trying to tell me that WoW came out and EQ servers were empty all of a sudden? Please. As for the WoW killer failings, I already told you the reasons. It was at the right place at the right time letting it to define the genre and solidify it's position as a go to MMO. B.) I can see you are from America so I'll hold back as I have no idea about the situation on your market. But I can assure you that here, in EU, people with no interest in the card games had actually no idea about their existence, even though Magic The Gathering is quite prominent. But for PC TCG's, it's basically the google thing I explained in my previous post. Hearthstone was first to actually remind us there are PC TCG's after all and as such, it had virtually no competition at all. C.) I never said Diablo 3 is failure. What's wrong with you? Anyway None. "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." Does it prove it's quality? It recieved massive criticism and a big exodus of players in first months. Does that mean anything to you or not?I don't know if this is a trolling atempt or being serious but I rather go with the first choice so I don't have to roll my eyes. Comparing Diablo 3 to Diablo 2, a 13 year old game, to which D3 actually IS a direct successor is... hopefully just a trolling atempt. I thought were having a serious conversation. Please don't do that again. Yes it did sell millions of copies, more precisely 12. And no it isn't, at least initially. Initially it might sell millions, but definitely not 10 as the original did. For the initial sales I predict half of that number at most. How it will be then is written in the stars, but I still doubt it would reach 12 again... Command and Conquer was the go to single-player RTS, it's strengths lied in graphics and FMV sequences, as Westwood never really adapt into multiplayer trend. Tell me a genre other than RTS that was "dominated" in a way that a game from a different company made it mainstream and defined it around itself and then Blizzard came and dethroned it. And don't come up with EQ pls, we already discussed that. gosh, what exactly is your point. You keep telling that the situations are not comparable, that might be true to a certain degree, but its not the point at all. Blizzard is good at taking a concept and making it even better for the masses. You might say that lol did exactly that, and thats true, but riot is just not on par if you watch the bigger picture. They have serious server issues, there is a lack of important tools, their launcher sucks, there are tons of bugs which are known for ages, etc. Riot got big too fast and now they cant handle it, in my circle of friends there are tons of people who just wait for another moba that is casual enough and fun to play, and i bet Blizzard will give them exactly that. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 23 2013 04:00 Arrinao wrote: I'll start with your last words: I believe we are both grown men and as such I don't really feel the need to polarize love B/hate B. I can just as easily ask you to stop the fanboyism, but I won't because I actually respect your opinions. Please make it mutual. A.) The MMO market pre-WoW was *huge* really? I don't know what you consider "huge" but let me tell you it simply wasn't huge, because it couldn't. As long as the dial-up modem connection was the most prominent form of internet connection, this branch of market was effectively pushed out from the mainstream. I'm not sure how can I effectively express myself because you seem to still not catch my point but let me put it this way. We can both agree that 99% games especially the AAA ones are most popular at the time of their release and for a short period after. Everquest was popular no doubt, but it's moment in the sun came when the genre was still under high-speed restriction and thus, niche. WoW's momentum matched with the internet revolution, when people actually started to look for the opportunities to really make usage of the power of the broadband. It deserved it, no doubt, at the time it was better than Everquest and Ultima Online, but my point still stands. If the internet revolution didn't happen, WoW would be nowhere near as popular as it was. I do not know what's your point in making stuff up but i this is pretty much a BS. Out of those people who played EQ some left for WoW, but definitely not all of them. But that didn't matter at the time as WoW reached out of the boundaries and grabbed people who had no idea of MMO's. Btw. are you really trying to tell me that WoW came out and EQ servers were empty all of a sudden? Please. As for the WoW killer failings, I already told you the reasons. It was at the right place at the right time letting it to define the genre and solidify it's position as a go to MMO. B.) I can see you are from America so I'll hold back as I have no idea about the situation on your market. But I can assure you that here, in EU, people with no interest in the card games had actually no idea about their existence, even though Magic The Gathering is quite prominent. But for PC TCG's, it's basically the google thing I explained in my previous post. Hearthstone was first to actually remind us there are PC TCG's after all and as such, it had virtually no competition at all. C.) I never said Diablo 3 is failure. What's wrong with you? Anyway None. "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." Does it prove it's quality? It recieved massive criticism and a big exodus of players in first months. Does that mean anything to you or not?I don't know if this is a trolling atempt or being serious but I rather go with the first choice so I don't have to roll my eyes. Comparing Diablo 3 to Diablo 2, a 13 year old game, to which D3 actually IS a direct successor is... hopefully just a trolling atempt. I thought were having a serious conversation. Please don't do that again. Yes it did sell millions of copies, more precisely 12. And no it isn't, at least initially. Initially it might sell millions, but definitely not 10 as the original did. For the initial sales I predict half of that number at most. How it will be then is written in the stars, but I still doubt it would reach 12 again... Command and Conquer was the go to single-player RTS, it's strengths lied in graphics and FMV sequences, as Westwood never really adapt into multiplayer trend. Tell me a genre other than RTS that was "dominated" in a way that a game from a different company made it mainstream and defined it around itself and then Blizzard came and dethroned it. And don't come up with EQ pls, we already discussed that. Since you obviously never played WoW or at least kept up with it; World of Warcraft and its development both in the beta and release was pushed most heavily by the top Everquest clans transferring to World of Warcraft and talking to developers about changes that needed to occur for end game content to be considered good. You know why? Because Everquest raids were done, for the most part, by phone lists, wherein people took shifts searching boss spawns, making tonnes of phone calls for impromptu raids. Ultima Online had massive communities of people as well. And you know what happened when Everquest 2 and Ultima Online 2 were released? Nothing, because by then they had switched to playing World of Warcraft, were part of the development of World of Warcraft, and were the main pushers of content for world of warcraft. B.) Since you don't seem to know anything about Magic the Gathering, EU and US markets for the game was massive and encompassing and, for the longest time, EU was the continent pushing strategy development and innovation for magic the gathering. Recently japan has had a surge of talent and the Pro Tours in japan were big hits. But Sweden, Germany, and France has had top players since the birth of Magic so your not caring about card games is actually just your own ignorance since EU has been a big magic hub for the past 10 years. There are more online magic tournaments running right now than almost any other tournaments, I can log in at any time and have a swathe of choices between draft, standard, modern, etc... Magic is also currently rising in popularity as the previous 2 sets have actually increased the number of MTGO accounts and increased the regular attendance of both local and large tournaments in both EU and the US. So no, you're wrong in your attempt to pretend that there isn't a juggernaut that is already holding the TCG market both online and offline not counting the hundreds of mobile apps also in the market but will never get big because if you're serious about TCG or CCG games, Magic the Gathering is the only one where you can make a living flying the world playing card games. Rogue RPGs were very prevalent in the early 90's, but stopped after Diable 2 broke the market for it. Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, etc... were the biggest selling and top of the line RTS games, until Broodwar came out. You're ignorance of the scenes and what developed in them is just your ignorance of them. | ||
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rename
Estonia329 Posts
On October 23 2013 04:00 Arrinao wrote: Tell me a genre other than RTS that was "dominated" in a way that a game from a different company made it mainstream and defined it around itself and then Blizzard came and dethroned it. . Diablo dethroned all the roguelike games from the ARPG genre. I still remember the days where i was running around in angband, killings O's, o's T's and j's and heard about diablo wondering why the hell this dumbed down PoS game is more popular than angband (or my favourite variant Sangband) back then. | ||
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lamprey1
Canada919 Posts
On October 23 2013 04:00 Arrinao wrote: Command and Conquer was the go to single-player RTS, it's strengths lied in graphics and FMV sequences, as Westwood never really adapt into multiplayer trend. Tell me a genre other than RTS that was "dominated" in a way that a game from a different company made it mainstream and defined it around itself and then Blizzard came and dethroned it. And don't come up with EQ pls, we already discussed that. do you just make this stuff up? C&C had a huge multiplayer following. here is a top C&C pro gamer here... upon entering the RTS genre , Blizzard was "just another player". Now, Starcraft is RTS... and RTS is Starcraft. of course you could argue that if the Cathode Ray Tube had not been invented no on would be playing SC1. | ||
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