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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Imo the worst problem is that people dont know/remember that forts slow down autoattacks. Too often I see terrors/dragons running into forts and tanking them all by themselves, effectively cutting their damage down in half.
Also, I see nothing wrong with fighting with terror/dragon, especially terror. They start off somewhat lackluster, but in the late game their damage to heroes is amazingly high and terror also has one of the best AoE disables in the game on a ridiculously low cooldown.
Can't agree on the split pushing with DK, without any means to disable forts he will end up tanking it and wasting its damage output. Besides, if they come for you, you have no ways to disengage, so you just die. Imo, DK should just go as 5-man push and deliver it's damage on whatever's closer, be it a tower, a fort or a hero. It's better with terror, but you still can and should fight with it.
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On December 08 2014 18:44 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 18:20 BluzMan wrote:On December 08 2014 15:19 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
I just had a game where the enemy stiches used his ult, and ate 3 of us while we were pushing with the dragon knight, and then, the dragon knight used furious charge and send stiches inside their base, killing the 3 of us. It was pretty funny lol, but thank god we won that, because if not i would have been mad. Furious charge is the #1 nooblar detector in this game. 90% of the time the usage of this skill does more harm than good. dragon knight and garden terror usage in general is awful. How often doesn't the knight just die pointlessly, people don't run it while you could use it slightly more conservatively and get far more damage of it's abilities. Garden terror is even worse though, people using it to chase heroes or always want to initiate a teamfight with it. Often it's at it best split pushing because they have to send 2 people after it typically to minimize damage from the pods. Speaking of the pods, how many people play that poorly. So many teammates that don't focus them.. And then even more who place the pods poorly, you either place the pod to hit as many buildings or place it safely. So often you see something in between or people go for the greedy placement anyway while it would be much better often to keep it more safely in the back so it's up far longer. Well most objectives get misplayed anyway I feel in pub. Cursed hollow the team focusses too much on the tribute often, heroes that hopelessly sacrifice themselves into 3+ enemy heroes to delay the tribute gathering.. Even abandoning the push on a fort for it.. Blackheart bay sometimes the overzealous turning in off coins, going for every single coin while it won't be a cannon fired. Or reverse, not handing in a single coin when the meter is 15/16. The worst though heading over with 8+ coins alone on heroes like zagara. Haunted mines most seem to do alright though, perhaps because the objective is more straightforward there. Still oftne too early cap on the siege giants. Also frustatingly poor splitting up during mines often or like cursed hollow overzealously sacrificing to prevent the golem kill.
As a gazlowe player I can tell you haunted mines is frustrating too :D how many times did I tell my team I was going to solo the boss and 1 or 2 come with me and draw the attention on me, which obviously result in our death. They don't seem to understand that the boss only has 30 skulls and the rest is 70... you have to let gazlowe solo it otherwise it's not worth it.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Also, the game currently suffers from a ridiculous amount of know-it-alls who just apply their "general knowledge" of the game without looking at the current situation and aggressively refuse to do anything else. Like you have people taking mercs ("you have to take camps you noob!") for no apparent purpose, people farming some remote lane when the team goes for objective ("you noob, you have to get the XP so we get to level X faster!"), people refusing to fight with the garden terror ("you have to hit buildings with it you idiot!"), people refusing to push with garden terror ("you have to fight with it you idiot!").
What Blizzard really did well is that there's an abundance of ways to make yourself useful, but people take it so far with recipes for success it became almost unplayable. In every game, for every call you make there's a junkie who's refusing to cooperate because he saw someone on a stream do something else in a vaguely similar situation.
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On December 08 2014 19:04 Spaylz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2014 18:44 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 18:20 BluzMan wrote:On December 08 2014 15:19 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
I just had a game where the enemy stiches used his ult, and ate 3 of us while we were pushing with the dragon knight, and then, the dragon knight used furious charge and send stiches inside their base, killing the 3 of us. It was pretty funny lol, but thank god we won that, because if not i would have been mad. Furious charge is the #1 nooblar detector in this game. 90% of the time the usage of this skill does more harm than good. dragon knight and garden terror usage in general is awful. How often doesn't the knight just die pointlessly, people don't run it while you could use it slightly more conservatively and get far more damage of it's abilities. Garden terror is even worse though, people using it to chase heroes or always want to initiate a teamfight with it. Often it's at it best split pushing because they have to send 2 people after it typically to minimize damage from the pods. Speaking of the pods, how many people play that poorly. So many teammates that don't focus them.. And then even more who place the pods poorly, you either place the pod to hit as many buildings or place it safely. So often you see something in between or people go for the greedy placement anyway while it would be much better often to keep it more safely in the back so it's up far longer. Well most objectives get misplayed anyway I feel in pub. Cursed hollow the team focusses too much on the tribute often, heroes that hopelessly sacrifice themselves into 3+ enemy heroes to delay the tribute gathering.. Even abandoning the push on a fort for it.. Blackheart bay sometimes the overzealous turning in off coins, going for every single coin while it won't be a cannon fired. Or reverse, not handing in a single coin when the meter is 15/16. The worst though heading over with 8+ coins alone on heroes like zagara. Haunted mines most seem to do alright though, perhaps because the objective is more straightforward there. Still oftne too early cap on the siege giants. Also frustatingly poor splitting up during mines often or like cursed hollow overzealously sacrificing to prevent the golem kill. While I agree on the Dragon Knight, I have to disagree about the Garden Terror. Why would you not fight with it? Have you seen just how much damage it does per hit? One slap from that thing is like 500 damage at the beginning, and 1000+ toward the end. Add to that the fact that it has an aoe hex, and you're golden. It really is a teamfight winner in my opinion. In decent to high level games, nobody is actually going to let you split push with the plant. You'll end up splitting up, and if 2-3 people defend you while you have the plant, you hardly do any damage. I feel that the best thing to do with the Terror is to push as 5, force a fight, and drop pods in the back where it can first take out the walls and towers, and then the Fort/Keep. The Terror is so much stronger than the Dragon Knight. The first Terror can easily take a Fort if you go as 5, whereas the first Dragon Knight pretty much serves to destroy two sets of walls + towers, at best.
well sometimes fighting with it is alright but I think the real strength of it is in the pod and it's siege damage. If you defend or teamfight generally with it it doesn't do as much, still sometimes you need to use it this way.
For pushing though I think it's often better to send the garden one place and go with the other 4 at an other fort. I feel it's much easier to defend an early terror when it's 5 v 5 at one fort, the defending team tends to do fine and they can focus pods pretty quickly. If say the terror goes bottom and the rest goes top I feel it's much harder to defend. If the team goes after the terror it drops a pod and runs another place while hexing giving the 4 a good oppurtunity to do damage. If the team defends top the 4 play conservative and the terror does great damage. Splitting up however to defend is tough too because a single hero against the terror is not enough to take a pod down quickly typically and sending too much leaves you in trouble on the other fort. Plus you have to decide quickly how to split up, not easy either.
Also I think the aoe of the terror comes to better use split up, you nicely clear the lane already on the way over and while pushing it, if you push as team the lane clear is sort of redundant with the general aoe that your team will fire off. I just find but of course others can disagree that the terror works quite well alone because it can run well and drop a pod that requires attention from the team. Of course it only works if the rest of the team is also pressuring at the same time, if they are just creeping it won't be very effective.
Dragon knight is a teampush thing more but still I think in pubs people let it die too quickly, because it's 'free' hp shouldnt mean you can just mindless sacrifice it. If it's half hp pull it back more and use the aoe attack a few more times.
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I don't like split pushing with the terror. It's too damned good in teamfights for that. Get the enemy lumped together and turn 2-3 of them into plants at a time. Good terror usage straight up wins games.
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On December 08 2014 21:15 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 19:04 Spaylz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2014 18:44 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 18:20 BluzMan wrote:On December 08 2014 15:19 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
I just had a game where the enemy stiches used his ult, and ate 3 of us while we were pushing with the dragon knight, and then, the dragon knight used furious charge and send stiches inside their base, killing the 3 of us. It was pretty funny lol, but thank god we won that, because if not i would have been mad. Furious charge is the #1 nooblar detector in this game. 90% of the time the usage of this skill does more harm than good. dragon knight and garden terror usage in general is awful. How often doesn't the knight just die pointlessly, people don't run it while you could use it slightly more conservatively and get far more damage of it's abilities. Garden terror is even worse though, people using it to chase heroes or always want to initiate a teamfight with it. Often it's at it best split pushing because they have to send 2 people after it typically to minimize damage from the pods. Speaking of the pods, how many people play that poorly. So many teammates that don't focus them.. And then even more who place the pods poorly, you either place the pod to hit as many buildings or place it safely. So often you see something in between or people go for the greedy placement anyway while it would be much better often to keep it more safely in the back so it's up far longer. Well most objectives get misplayed anyway I feel in pub. Cursed hollow the team focusses too much on the tribute often, heroes that hopelessly sacrifice themselves into 3+ enemy heroes to delay the tribute gathering.. Even abandoning the push on a fort for it.. Blackheart bay sometimes the overzealous turning in off coins, going for every single coin while it won't be a cannon fired. Or reverse, not handing in a single coin when the meter is 15/16. The worst though heading over with 8+ coins alone on heroes like zagara. Haunted mines most seem to do alright though, perhaps because the objective is more straightforward there. Still oftne too early cap on the siege giants. Also frustatingly poor splitting up during mines often or like cursed hollow overzealously sacrificing to prevent the golem kill. While I agree on the Dragon Knight, I have to disagree about the Garden Terror. Why would you not fight with it? Have you seen just how much damage it does per hit? One slap from that thing is like 500 damage at the beginning, and 1000+ toward the end. Add to that the fact that it has an aoe hex, and you're golden. It really is a teamfight winner in my opinion. In decent to high level games, nobody is actually going to let you split push with the plant. You'll end up splitting up, and if 2-3 people defend you while you have the plant, you hardly do any damage. I feel that the best thing to do with the Terror is to push as 5, force a fight, and drop pods in the back where it can first take out the walls and towers, and then the Fort/Keep. The Terror is so much stronger than the Dragon Knight. The first Terror can easily take a Fort if you go as 5, whereas the first Dragon Knight pretty much serves to destroy two sets of walls + towers, at best. well sometimes fighting with it is alright but I think the real strength of it is in the pod and it's siege damage. If you defend or teamfight generally with it it doesn't do as much, still sometimes you need to use it this way. For pushing though I think it's often better to send the garden one place and go with the other 4 at an other fort. I feel it's much easier to defend an early terror when it's 5 v 5 at one fort, the defending team tends to do fine and they can focus pods pretty quickly. If say the terror goes bottom and the rest goes top I feel it's much harder to defend. If the team goes after the terror it drops a pod and runs another place while hexing giving the 4 a good oppurtunity to do damage. If the team defends top the 4 play conservative and the terror does great damage. Splitting up however to defend is tough too because a single hero against the terror is not enough to take a pod down quickly typically and sending too much leaves you in trouble on the other fort. Plus you have to decide quickly how to split up, not easy either. Also I think the aoe of the terror comes to better use split up, you nicely clear the lane already on the way over and while pushing it, if you push as team the lane clear is sort of redundant with the general aoe that your team will fire off. I just find but of course others can disagree that the terror works quite well alone because it can run well and drop a pod that requires attention from the team. Of course it only works if the rest of the team is also pressuring at the same time, if they are just creeping it won't be very effective. Dragon knight is a teampush thing more but still I think in pubs people let it die too quickly, because it's 'free' hp shouldnt mean you can just mindless sacrifice it. If it's half hp pull it back more and use the aoe attack a few more times.
I still disagree. The Terror's power is far too great in teamfights to waste it. I think the best thing to do is to fight to kill a couple of heroes, and then push. Any half-decent team will counter your split pushing if you send the plant somewhere, and the rest of the team somewhere else. It simply won't work most of the time.
Really, try to fight with it and see just how much it hurts. It's ridiculous.
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I actually don't think its possible for me to win in solo queqe unless i take ilidan or zeratul. Would love for this game to have more heroes that can actually outplay their opponents instead of generic "im big creep" shit like zagara or raynor.
Also fuck Abathur.
EDIT: To the guy that posted below, just wait? Week ago i had 40+ that werent calculated, now all are done.
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I can't be the only this is happening to. https://www.hotslogs.com/Player/MatchHistory?PlayerID=429196
I count a total of 21 wins and 6 losses not being processed, anything i can do to fix it? Tried re-uploading without success and the faggot with the website obviously got not help-button tt.
EDIT: Polish guy above me. I am waiting, only thing to do really, but i saw the news update saying "all replays marked with unexpecting results" can be re-uploaded" so imma kinda confused. I'll wait though :>
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I wouldn't worry about whether Hotslogs updates your profile. What matters is where bnet thinks you're at for matchmaking purposes, and you can use hotslogs as a reference to see the level of competition that you're being matched with. For the record, once you hit a certain threshold in Diamond (per hotslogs), it seems like you'll have more or less topped out in bnet's matchmaking categories, meaning that you can be matched with the top players on hotslogs.
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hotslogs is a nice effort of the guy but it's pretty pointless for rating anyway since it doesn't and can't account for premade. If you team up with a good composition you are far advantaged but that information isn't stored in individual or team ELO.
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On December 09 2014 02:18 Markwerf wrote:
hotslogs is a nice effort of the guy but it's pretty pointless for rating anyway since it doesn't and can't account for premade. If you team up with a good composition you are far advantaged but that information isn't stored in individual or team ELO.
All things being equal, hotslogs is still a pretty good indicator of how good players are. I wouldn't take it seriously, though.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Idk you don't need to be diamond to get matched up with the top players at least in alpha, according to hotslogs I was in gold when I played against idra (and of course we lost that game horribly). Also it seems that if you play agains with a 4-5 premade its easier to get paired with another 4-5 premade and to play with better players.
About the terror fighting or pushing... ThE thing is you win games by destroying forts and then the core. So yeah maybe you can kill one guy but I think destroying forts and keeps ultimately is just more valuable.
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On December 09 2014 03:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
Idk you don't need to be diamond to get matched up with the top players at least in alpha, according to hotslogs I was in gold when I played against idra (and of course we lost that game horribly). Also it seems that if you play agains with a 4-5 premade its easier to get paired with another 4-5 premade and to play with better players.
About the terror fighting or pushing... ThE thing is you win games by destroying forts and then the core. So yeah maybe you can kill one guy but I think destroying forts and keeps ultimately is just more valuable.
I think playerbase is much larger now than it is months ago. Back then, it was probably much more likely that high ELO players could be ranked against gold-league players. When did you meet him?
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On December 09 2014 03:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
Idk you don't need to be diamond to get matched up with the top players at least in alpha, according to hotslogs I was in gold when I played against idra (and of course we lost that game horribly). Also it seems that if you play agains with a 4-5 premade its easier to get paired with another 4-5 premade and to play with better players.
About the terror fighting or pushing... ThE thing is you win games by destroying forts and then the core. So yeah maybe you can kill one guy but I think destroying forts and keeps ultimately is just more valuable.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you use the terror to chase one guy down. What you should do is use the terror to roll as a five man group to force a teamfight -- typically at the enemy fort/keep, but ideally in a narrow space like the garden -- in which you kill a few enemy heroes and then proceed to attack the enemy base with an advantage.
As for hotslogs and matchmaking, I'm in diamond and being matched almost exclusively with diamond and master players (including player from the top 5) now when I solo queue. I don't think that you can use hotslogs to say that you are better than everyone who is below you on hotslogs, but I do think that it is useful for knowing what general class of player you are. From my experience, there very clearly is a difference between diamond/master players and platinum/gold players.
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On December 09 2014 04:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 03:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
Idk you don't need to be diamond to get matched up with the top players at least in alpha, according to hotslogs I was in gold when I played against idra (and of course we lost that game horribly). Also it seems that if you play agains with a 4-5 premade its easier to get paired with another 4-5 premade and to play with better players.
About the terror fighting or pushing... ThE thing is you win games by destroying forts and then the core. So yeah maybe you can kill one guy but I think destroying forts and keeps ultimately is just more valuable.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you use the terror to chase one guy down. What you should do is use the terror to roll as a five man group to force a teamfight -- typically at the enemy fort/keep, but ideally in a narrow space like the garden -- in which you kill a few enemy heroes and then proceed to attack the enemy base with an advantage. As for hotslogs and matchmaking, I'm in diamond and being matched almost exclusively with diamond and master players (including player from the top 5) now when I solo queue. I don't think that you can use hotslogs to say that you are better than everyone who is below you on hotslogs, but I do think that it is useful for knowing what general class of player you are. From my experience, there very clearly is a difference between diamond/master players and platinum/gold players.
I've found that the best method of maximising the terror is to go between the forts using the w and keeping yourself healthy whilst attracting heroes like a moth to a flame then you go for the fight, done well you can sometimes get a level lead, then it's all about hitting the q at people focusing them well.
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Maybe some day Blizzard will actually launch a game properly. Jesus Christ.
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Mexico2170 Posts
The game isnt out yet, so... yeah it does have a lot of bugs especially since that last patch.
Anyway, so i just played a game as zeratul on blackhearths bay, and it was hilarious. It was a pretty long 30 minute or so game, and we bringed their core down to 30% health with the blackhearths atacks. So, while the ship atacked, i sneaked in their base, all my teammates were dead/doing something else.
I had taken the increased range of singularity spike (i thnk thats what its called), and the double thing. So i literally stood there, at the border of the range of vision/atck on their core, casting my atack, until i bringed down their core to 15% (it was pretty fast), and then i just went yolo and killed it just before a jaina and a nova killed me.
It was pretty funny
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Canada8159 Posts
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Caldeum1977 Posts
Haunted Mines has all of the shortest games - it's so much fun to completely destroy a team (not so much fun to be on the other side). Here's my best :D
+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT
this is still alpha and ranked play will come eventually and even then you're still getting matched with opponents of your level atm.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hJ9WcCL.jpg)
