Was busy for a few days but I'd just like to throw a few topics up for discussion.
Nova is complete garbage now and is basically unplayable. Mediocre hero damage, average burst, and zero utility. All I can say is grats to all the bad players that cried endlessly about being bad at the game and got a viable hero nerfed into the ground.
Tassadar I am undecided on. I previously already expressed my opinion that heroes like Tassadar were the standard other heroes should aim for.
Promote nerf across the board seems pretty stupid. Permanent might've been too long but 15 seconds is way too short. Blizzard repeatedly states that they don't want games to last too long and they get rid of a good lane pushing option. If promote was an issue, they could've removed it from certain heroes where it was an issue. If triple promoted catapults are an issue, maybe teams should have better map awareness. Previously, I think it was a great option to give team comps / heroes who couldn't split push well the ability to do so, thus allowing play-styles to differ. That was a great thing that added build variety.
They've said that a talent rework is in the works, though. I just hope some of these decisions make more sense in the future.
Jaina seems pretty underwhelming. Her damage is okay if you all-in damage with her talents but that leaves you super squishy with no escape or sustain. Frost Ring needs to root enemies who step through the ring for the full duration of the spell graphic. As is, it's not reliable root so it's just an AoE burst on a long timer. Water Elemental is also too weak before 20 and too strong after 20. I don't think such hard carries should exist in HotS. In terms of design, her talents are well designed but the trade-offs at certain levels are too extreme. I suppose it's a healthy thing that she can be so different depending on the talents you take. You either take one of her only options for escape with sprint or you take the backbone of her burst damage in icy veins. You either take a huge damage boost with 25% damage buff on targets hit by cone of cold or you take a huge boost to survivability through gaining thousands of shield health through ice barrier. You either take one of her only options for escape with blink or you take the talent that makes her water elemental ridiculously strong.
I finally got this game on my battle.net account. Only played a little, but it seems really really fun. Way more than the few games I saw on twitch made it seem. A lot of battling all over from the very beginning, no pussying around with the laning phase. I only played Arthas, and he seems amazing. So tanky, near infinite mana, constant heals with his ult being ridiculous on the self healing. I went on a 25 kill streak without dieing. So fun. Is there no place to discuss Heroes on teamliquid?
On December 05 2014 17:00 GogumaCat wrote: I finally got this game on my battle.net account. Only played a little, but it seems really really fun. Way more than the few games I saw on twitch made it seem. A lot of battling all over from the very beginning, no pussying around with the laning phase. I only played Arthas, and he seems amazing. So tanky, near infinite mana, constant heals with his ult being ridiculous on the self healing. I went on a 25 kill streak without dieing. So fun. Is there no place to discuss Heroes on teamliquid?
Most of the discussion occurs in this thread. At some point I'm sure there will be a subforum or maybe another site branch of TL for it but for now it's just all here.
On December 05 2014 17:00 GogumaCat wrote: I finally got this game on my battle.net account. Only played a little, but it seems really really fun. Way more than the few games I saw on twitch made it seem. A lot of battling all over from the very beginning, no pussying around with the laning phase. I only played Arthas, and he seems amazing. So tanky, near infinite mana, constant heals with his ult being ridiculous on the self healing. I went on a 25 kill streak without dieing. So fun. Is there no place to discuss Heroes on teamliquid?
The game is quite fun to me too (as a player) but I've tried watching it and even though it was "pro level" games it felt really really boring. There is few individual outplay and sick moves or crazy strategies (everyone just picks the strongest 5v5 teamfight setup) so the game is pretty boring to watch atm ...
It looks like the "pros" aren't really trying much and just stick with the known top tiers, I've seen no splitpush strategy or lame abathur/azmodan comps (even on mines!) and I think it will probably take a very long time to see the zeratul gazlowe combo despite the hilariousness of seeing a 5 man void prison followed by a E R E 5 second stun combo with insane aoe damage from gazlowe :D
basically spent most of yesterday playing the game, it is really fun I love the objective based play. Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand that idea and just want to team fight or get hero kills.
It feels more like LoL than Dota with regards to design, interface and skill usage. I understand the game concepts and my hero control/ skill usage is pretty good. Next step for me is learning the maps properly and the ability of all heroes.
I hope we get a proper sub-forum soon so discussion is a bit easier, I don't think a TL branch site is likely though.
Since it is a blizzard game there is a decent chance there will be a TL branch site (imo). Especially considering there are quite a few sc2 pros playing it. The game however is still in alpha so it's probably "too soon" ™.
There is few individual outplay and sick moves or crazy strategies (everyone just picks the strongest 5v5 teamfight setup) so the game is pretty boring to watch atm ...
I think with the way abilities are designed, the game would actually fit much better if it had more 1on1 and 2on2 interactions. At least judging from my diamond rank games, alot of the games actually have some pretty cool moments, and could be fun spectatorwise. But whenever I watch pro games, it's just 5 guys running around all the time, and then a big battle with lots of abilites happens, but it's just so difficult to be "impressed" as viewer. In soloq, people coordinate things a lot worse, which actually creates more exciting games imo.
My team leads in kills 30 to 10 on pirate map and we are slowly and carefully abusing the coin advantage and breaking their base. Then two guys DC and we slowly lose, the end. Lots of people seem to have connection issues and apparently reconnecting takes ages.
So far I've bought Uther, Tassadar and Tychus. Waiting for Abathur and Siege Tank to get in rotation as I'm hoping to enjoy those. My first Tychus game I crushed my personal game length record with 41 mins win, our Abathur must have ended with like 400-500k siege damage, stopped checking towards the end.
On December 05 2014 12:03 Brian333 wrote: Was busy for a few days but I'd just like to throw a few topics up for discussion.
Nova is complete garbage now and is basically unplayable. Mediocre hero damage, average burst, and zero utility. All I can say is grats to all the bad players that cried endlessly about being bad at the game and got a viable hero nerfed into the ground.
Tassadar I am undecided on. I previously already expressed my opinion that heroes like Tassadar were the standard other heroes should aim for.
Promote nerf across the board seems pretty stupid. Permanent might've been too long but 15 seconds is way too short. Blizzard repeatedly states that they don't want games to last too long and they get rid of a good lane pushing option. If promote was an issue, they could've removed it from certain heroes where it was an issue. If triple promoted catapults are an issue, maybe teams should have better map awareness. Previously, I think it was a great option to give team comps / heroes who couldn't split push well the ability to do so, thus allowing play-styles to differ. That was a great thing that added build variety.
They've said that a talent rework is in the works, though. I just hope some of these decisions make more sense in the future.
Jaina seems pretty underwhelming. Her damage is okay if you all-in damage with her talents but that leaves you super squishy with no escape or sustain. Frost Ring needs to root enemies who step through the ring for the full duration of the spell graphic. As is, it's not reliable root so it's just an AoE burst on a long timer. Water Elemental is also too weak before 20 and too strong after 20. I don't think such hard carries should exist in HotS. In terms of design, her talents are well designed but the trade-offs at certain levels are too extreme. I suppose it's a healthy thing that she can be so different depending on the talents you take. You either take one of her only options for escape with sprint or you take the backbone of her burst damage in icy veins. You either take a huge damage boost with 25% damage buff on targets hit by cone of cold or you take a huge boost to survivability through gaining thousands of shield health through ice barrier. You either take one of her only options for escape with blink or you take the talent that makes her water elemental ridiculously strong.
Agree, nova was overnerfed and it's silly.
Tassadar is still 'ok' but not really great. For competetive I think he becomes a situational pick if his abilities line up well, like against stealth heroes or against some pick compositions. The new build I like and think will be good is with psi infusion which suddenly makes him far less mana hungry. Also his E upgrades are the best choice now i feel which leaves him near unkillable as those actually got buffed, he definately has a place and it feels right.
Jaina seems fine I actually like the talent choices on her. More than any hero she really has troubling choices which don't depend as much on eachother. With valla I think she is the best designed hero in terms of talents. Some tiers are weak some are strong but you have choices in most of them, only the ring ultimate feels lackluster to me. More so her choices aren't as dependant on eachother giving much more options. Some other heroes have multiple builds but they boost eachother so it's basically taking A thus this and that or B and the talents that align with that. I like her role actually as a squishy no escape/defense range based hero that didn't really exist yet.
Promote was nerfed too hard and it's stupid, push abilities like it are cool and should be viable. I do like the idea though of it being timed some way with a quicker replenish. Before it was a bit bland, when you had 2 stacks and mercs or catapults you'd just use it now you would have to play more into it but got to use it more. I think on a timer is fine if it's slightly longer and it boosts damage more than hitpoints.
Anub'arak also got butchered by the way, nerfs on him were to harsh.
Other changes were alright though arthas and uther hardly got hit and are still tier 1 I think. Tychus also needs a hit more than just a bug fix. And about ~10 unplayable heroes need significant boosts or changes but it's getng somewhere.
Honestly promote was fine on most heroes (gazlowe, zagara, azmodan...) it was just way too strong on abathur and in general on catapults. The nerf is indeed harsh but balance changes are meaningless at this point, there will be many more changes and it's obvious arthas and tychus for example won't stay the way they are right now.
On December 06 2014 01:19 RouaF wrote: Honestly promote was fine on most heroes (gazlowe, zagara, azmodan...) it was just way too strong on abathur and in general on catapults. The nerf is indeed harsh but balance changes are meaningless at this point, there will be many more changes and it's obvious arthas and tychus for example won't stay the way they are right now.
I disagree. Promote was a total pain.
You'd end up fighting gigantic catapults that took ages to kill. It was so damn boring. I do agree they overnerfed it, so they should probably put the timer to 60sec instead of 15.
just got the game, before i start playing just wanna know what the best heroes for each role are atm? i.e. top 3-4 heroes for dps/tank/support/whatever other roles there are in this game
On December 06 2014 02:13 deathray797 wrote: just got the game, before i start playing just wanna know what the best heroes for each role are atm? i.e. top 3-4 heroes for dps/tank/support/whatever other roles there are in this game
In order: Tychus / Arthas / Uther. Given that Arthas is free this week, you should just play him a bunch until you get a feel for the game. Other heroes are very good, but they have more specialized applications that you won't appreciate until you get more experience.
On December 06 2014 01:19 RouaF wrote: Honestly promote was fine on most heroes (gazlowe, zagara, azmodan...) it was just way too strong on abathur and in general on catapults. The nerf is indeed harsh but balance changes are meaningless at this point, there will be many more changes and it's obvious arthas and tychus for example won't stay the way they are right now.
I disagree. Promote was a total pain.
You'd end up fighting gigantic catapults that took ages to kill. It was so damn boring. I do agree they overnerfed it, so they should probably put the timer to 60sec instead of 15.
Haha, just had another brilliant one. Had some pretty good VRs in the game, and then one VR where Valla was trapped along with two other enemies. She really wasn't happy out that I think.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i61.tinypic.com/19mbnn.jpg)
