On November 07 2014 05:56 Diamond wrote: If you get 20 autoattacks in a row in a teamfight without dying as Valla, the enemy team seriously messed up.
In solo que anything goes, but a comp team will dive around the Rain and obliterate you.
Odin just requires pressing R and can shoot from 14 miles away.
Edit: Also solo laning is VERY important at any decent level of play. Try to hold a 1v4 on Haunted mines of 1v3 on other maps with auto-attack Valla. It doesn't work very well.
Why is the Valla the one solo holding the lanes? Seems like poor strategy seeing as there are tons of champs that do that better with the base kit or a spec that doesn't gimp teamfight.
Playing a game right now as W valla and it's still fucking horrible.
Because she has very safe waveclear with W build and it pretty poor for pushing other lanes as she is short ranged as hell without W upgrades and even her W upgrades make her a poor pusher. She's one of the safest solo laners in the game.
There is a reason literally every top team has fled from auto-attack Valla, it's just too easy to counter and blow up. W max makes diving Valla VERY hard and risky to do so. You don't give up teamfights either, it outputs a ton of damage when done correctly.
On November 07 2014 06:15 Diamond wrote: Because she has very safe waveclear with W build and it pretty poor for pushing other lanes as she is short ranged as hell without W upgrades and even her W upgrades make her a poor pusher. She's one of the safest solo laners in the game.
There is a reason literally every top team has fled from auto-attack Valla, it's just too easy to counter and blow up. W max is VERY hard and risky to do so. You don't give up teamfights either, it outputs a ton of damage when done correctly.
It does a lot of damage, but no burst and no focus fire. That means that any kind of healing (especially Bright, Jug, or Tranq) just negates everything that she does. She cannot duel vs any ranged hero or melee burst hero (which this is supposed to counter), and overall you still do less damage than an autoattack build.
Sure, it's really safe to stand really far back and spam W, but you're not being useful to your team in doing so. You HAVE to be autoattacking so you're getting Battle Momentum procs to use W enough for it to be worth it.
She's great poke and waveclear, but don't try to tell me she does shit in teamfights because she doesn't. And let's be fair, if they really want to blow you up, they're going to fucking blow you up, no matter which build you go.
Ok because SMG who innovated it obviously has no idea what they are doing.
Also the last part is incorrect, that's why people started this build. Your examples of healing btw are on a bottom tier support (malf), a hero that basically should not be in the game (Lili), and a support that is not played with the ult you are assuming (BW) and is also on a low tier of supports.
Both ESV teams spent time testing both, and at this time the W build is superior AT THIS TIME. Both also can work, even more so in solo que, but auto attack Valla just dies in comp play to Chen, Anub, and Tyrael, which are all major priority picks atm.
Nova also blows her up in .2 sec, Tychus can at least press R.
honestly I agree with the Diamond in the ruff. Tychus is greater than Valla in a blood lust comp but Valla is a good alternative along with Raynor. The biggest thing about Tychus that makes him so much better is that he doesn't need time to scale he starts the game very very very strong with high damage displace/cc and an escape then blood lust comes in with Odin making Odins most powerful attribute escalate to a ridiculous level aswell as giving movespeed so they cannot escape the attacks.
On November 07 2014 06:34 Diamond wrote: Ok because SMG who innovated it obviously has no idea what they are doing.
Also the last part is incorrect, that's why people started this build. Your examples of healing btw are on a bottom tier support (malf), a hero that basically should not be in the game (Lili), and a support that is not played with the ult you are assuming (BW) and is also on a low tier of supports.
Both ESV teams spent time testing both, and at this time the W build is superior AT THIS TIME. Both also can work, even more so in solo que, but auto attack Valla just dies in comp play to Chen, Anub, and Tyrael, which are all major priority picks atm.
Nova also blows her up in .2 sec, Tychus can at least press R.
Fixed.
Also, as long as Brightwing takes the non-Healing Rains talent, it doesn't matter which ult she takes. The burst heal from that is insane.
I'm perfectly willing to say Valla probably isn't good at all in competitive play right now (I really don't know because I don't follow the scene), but I'm not willing to say that Valla W build is good.
Your fix is incorrect. The W build gives her self peel and when timed with a good vault can peel Heroes like Chen, Anub, and Tyreal (although angel man is the hardest). A spammable 40% 2 sec slow is no joke.
Do you mean Regenerative Rains of Gust of Healing? Either way its 3-4 seconds to get the full healing off with either, and 3-4 seconds in 1-2 seconds longer than a good team needs to kill you. One of the many reasons that Rehgar and Uther are super popular is their heal is upfront and not over time.
Valla is fine in comp play, and it's the W build that's keeping her there in a double tank meta.
Edit: As a side note, if the meta moves away from double tank + super pushing, it's likely that auto attack Valla would come back as the primary build like it was before the last patch.
So on that note if in solo que and playing vs a non-pusher/single tank team the auto attack build would be the better option still. Unless vs Chen. You need W max vs that asshole.
On November 07 2014 07:01 Diamond wrote: Your fix is incorrect. The W build gives her self peel and when timed with a good vault can peel Heroes like Chen, Anub, and Tyreal (although angel man is the hardest). A spammable 40% 2 sec slow is no joke.
Do you mean Regenerative Rains of Gust of Healing? Either way its 3-4 seconds to get the full healing off with either, and 3-4 seconds in 1-2 seconds longer than a good team needs to kill you. One of the many reasons that Rehgar and Uther are super popular is their heal is upfront and not over time.
Valla is fine in comp play, and it's the W build that's keeping her there in a double tank meta.
Edit: As a side note, if the meta moves away from double tank + super pushing, it's likely that auto attack Valla would come back as the primary build like it was before the last patch.
So on that note if in solo que and playing vs a non-pusher/single tank team the auto attack build would be the better option still. Unless vs Chen. You need W max vs that asshole.
I dunno, AA Valla blows Chen the fuck up with even 1 supporting stun. That's actually precisely what happened in the game I was just in. Executioner + 10 Hatred/Rancor stacks + Searing Attacks with a Tyreal ult or Rain of Vengeance and boom, dead Chen. Or at least force him to pop his ult after which he does basically nothing.
The thing is, the only reason why you're maxing W at all is the lvl 1 talent (Increased W range) and Frost Shot (the slow), I'd rather take Vamp Assault/Manticore and Executioner (and possibly Rancor over the W range talent) and just take Frost Shot over Discipline and Battle Momentum over Searing Attack and just be an autoattacker with peel. The grenades talent sucks and with Vamp Discipline seems less necessary.
Means that the enemy team focus' and gets on a single target as one. In particular in this case, Valla is normally put in the back lines (with tanks in front), so they "dive" past the front line to the back.
On November 07 2014 07:30 Yoav wrote: Quick question: the term "dive" as used many times in the above question, means, to us MoBA non-initiates, "rush"?
Generally speaking this means engaging past the border of an enemy-controlled position. This could be a fortified position such as with towers or, as mentioned above, the front lines of a team fight to take out a backliner.
On the Valla thing, here's Arthelon and Dreadnaught from SMG (#1 team in the world) talking about it, and they are both MUCH better players than I ever will be, so maybe they can explain it in ways I can't.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x84Mib1.jpg)
