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On November 06 2014 06:14 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 03:57 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Finally got enough gold to buy my first hero, Diablo. Man he sucks  Zero damage output unless using his ulti beam. I was 1v1 vs a tassadar but he can just facetank him without any problems even though he is support. His overpower skills does less damage than an auto attack... Diablo not meant to do damage. He has two skills that relocate the enemy and one that farms minion souls. His ability is (1) the highest potential health pool in the game and (2) the ability to get an enemy way out of position so some bursty assassin can kill it. If you're going solo with Diablo, you're doing it wrong. Also, Tassadar is OP as fuck.
But I want lord of TERROR not lord of disruption :o.
And I feel like hp doesn't matter in this game a spam heal is 10x better. I feel the only thing diablo is good at is anti push when he gets returning flame waves
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On November 07 2014 00:21 xDaunt wrote:
So is Fenix going to come as a zealot or as a dragoon?
(when he comes, of course)
Maybe he will be a morphing champion
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On November 07 2014 00:31 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2014 00:21 xDaunt wrote:
So is Fenix going to come as a zealot or as a dragoon?
(when he comes, of course) Maybe he will be a morphing champion
Then I will yell out "IT'S MORPHIN TIME" every time I do it.
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Maybe his ultimate is to get slaughtered by a horde of hydralisks and reappear as a dragoon?
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Yeah I think it would be cool if Fenix's trait is moving back and forth between Zealot and Dragoon. Almost like Troll Warlord in DOTA.
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At home sick today, time to play some heroes!
Feel free to add me anyone Sch1sm#1936 when my brother in law gets up (lazy fucker) he will likely join in as well.
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After playing about 200 games (around 50 pre-reset) i can say that this is a fun game. I've played dota since 2006 and have tried almost all moba out there; 1 year of HoN in beta and around 200 games of LoL, strife and so on. So i know my way around the moba scene. And i will try and pin point why Hots is fun and in my humble opinion have alot of skill involved. TL;DR at the bottom!
My main is Neezebo but i play Stitches and Abathur alot as well. And in the case of all these heroes i have won some games (on my own) with not much help from the other teammates. When you have played a hero 50+ games you learn how to specc vs different comps on different maps. But its the small things that makes a good Hots player. But the biggest thing that matters in my opinion is movement. I've had teamfight as Stitches when my team was 4 levels ahead and we lost a fight at 20 min. Looking at the replay i saw that i was moving like a turd. In other games we've won fights being 2-3 levels behind and looking at my movement that fight it was 100 times better. Map, comp and levels matter, yes, but not as much as how you handle these. HotS has tons of depth, we just have to explore it. And if you don't want to be apart of that, then don't play or post negative stuff. However if you do play and find things that aren't to your liking please do share!
I've seen turnarounds both with randoms and while i played with 4 friends. Its a new game, people are learning it. And feel free to look at my Hotslogs profile, where i have all my games from the reset:+ Show Spoiler +
TL;DR
HotS offers something and it does not have to be for everyone. All i can say is that its for me, of that i am sure.
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On November 07 2014 00:07 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 23:21 Markwerf wrote:Was curious about some stats for the heroes in a nice overview and found a spreadsheet. This had some obvious errors I fixed and did some reformatting to get all the useful information in 1 glance. Thought I might as well share it for others to use: Overview of hero statsYou can change around the level and sort by colums you wish. May contain errors, I copied most of the data from an older version, added the latest heroes and fixed some obvious mistakes the previous person made like screwing up attack speed and attacks per second. Didn't check all numbers. Makes it easier to do some theorycraft, for example: Which heroes have the best DPS based on basic attacks? Could be useful perhaps for deciding which heroes match well with Rehgar's Bloodlust or ETC's trait. Also useful to know to determine how good a lifeleach talent would be on the hero. Answer: + Show Spoiler +Tychus, Raynor, Valla in that order Tychus doesn't benefit near as well as Valla does from Bloodlust. Raynor should be #1 with the right talents. Answer why: + Show Spoiler +Because he already has near max autoattack and a +% AS does a lot less for him, plus Valla has on hit talents so she gains more from Attack Speed than any other stat. Raynor has the highest autoattack damage in the game as well as the longest range AND (IIRC) Bloodlust affects the Banshees. So it should be Raynor, Valla, Tychus. Though Tychus does beat Valla if Valla goes arrow build instead of on-hit AND he's in the Odin when Bloodlust goes off.
Agreed, good analysis.
I just ment the base stats without talents factored in though, i'm not gonna bother putting in all possible talents etc. in a sheet. It's more a quick glance thing to get an idea of how certain heroes are situated etc.
Also I'm not aware there is a max autoattackspeed, is attackspeed capped in some way? Unfortunately information is rather vague and all over the place, there are so many talents and things i'm not exactly sure off how they work and I can't find well.
To completely theorize who benefits best from bloodlust would be tricky, Illidan is up there too with his decent DPS and movement speed advantage. Zagara might even be there too, she has surprisingly decent dps and I believe the summons benefit too for which speed is also amazing.
Anyway having an idea of the stats helped me determine at least here and there which talents are useful. For example sonya has surprisingly low autoattack damage making heal on autoattack not that interesting for her.
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You should always be popping bloodlust when tychus is in odin anyways
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Tychus is one of the highest priority Bloodlust targets in the game because of Odin. In fact Tempest used a double Odin/Bloodlust comp that worked so well it's still used all over the place in comp games.
As for good Bloodlust targets (in no particular order):
Arthas (rune tap, also bloodlust + sindragosa ends games)
Raynor (Highest DPS in game gets even higher)
Tychus (Bloodlust Odin = death)
Valla (Bit weaker than you would think, also more so with the hot W max build)
Tyrael (makes his engage even better, the attack speed also is a huge plus)
Tassadar (Bloodlust Archon is amazing)
Gazlowe (ONLY with silly all in Robo-Goblin builds)
Hammer (not amazing, but still good stats for a hammer)
Sonya/Stitches (for extra engage, they are on the end in particular for a reason, pretty weak with it)
The rest all sort of blow. Move speed is always good but they dont get much overall from it.
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On November 07 2014 00:47 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2014 00:31 ahswtini wrote:On November 07 2014 00:21 xDaunt wrote:
So is Fenix going to come as a zealot or as a dragoon?
(when he comes, of course) Maybe he will be a morphing champion Then I will yell out "IT'S MORPHIN TIME" every time I do it.
He'll go dragon after the first death and turns from a tank class into a dd class. Becomes an Immortal if the goon dies. If the Immortal dies, then a goldfish will plop out of it!
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On November 07 2014 02:42 Diamond wrote:
Tychus is one of the highest priority Bloodlust targets in the game because of Odin. In fact Tempest used a double Odin/Bloodlust comp that worked so well it's still used all over the place in comp games.
As for good Bloodlust targets (in no particular order):
Arthas (rune tap, also bloodlust + sindragosa ends games)
Raynor (Highest DPS in game gets even higher)
Tychus (Bloodlust Odin = death)
Valla (Bit weaker than you would think, also more so with the hot W max build)
Tyrael (makes his engage even better, the attack speed also is a huge plus)
Tassadar (Bloodlust Archon is amazing)
Gazlowe (ONLY with silly all in Robo-Goblin builds)
Hammer (not amazing, but still good stats for a hammer)
Sonya/Stitches (for extra engage, they are on the end in particular for a reason, pretty weak with it)
The rest all sort of blow. Move speed is always good but they dont get much overall from it.
I have played with, against, and as the W Valla build and I still don't understand why people think it's good. The only time it's anywhere near decent is if the other team has no sustain and no tanks. Otherwise, it does a lot of damage, but diffused over the entire enemy team, and your focus fire is super weak. I much prefer the Rancor/Manticore/Discipline/Searing Attack on hit build, especially with Bloodlust, where I'd argue she's actually a lot more powerful than 1 Odin while under Bloodlust.
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It's good because people got really good at diving the shit out of auto attack based Valla imo. If you dive a W max it's actually very difficult to dive her. It's also MUCH better at solo laning.
Still Tychus is the best Bloodlust target in the game. Odin with it is changes teamfights and overcomes the one weakness of Odin (it's relative slowness).
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On November 07 2014 00:31 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2014 00:21 xDaunt wrote:
So is Fenix going to come as a zealot or as a dragoon?
(when he comes, of course) Maybe he will be a morphing champion
Maybe he's a Zealot and turns into a low-HP Dragoon immediately after dying.
Nah. In my mind, Fenix is a Zealot.
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So got into beta like 3 days.
HotsLog says im somwhere around ~2.3k MMR and yea, lookin for some EU folks to play with. bluq#2210
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Speaking about Odin, why the hell are they using the collectors edition thor model lol. The real Odin is way more badass
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/58/Odin.png)
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On November 07 2014 04:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Speaking about Odin, why the hell are they using the collectors edition thor model lol. The real Odin is way more badass
I'm sure you will be able to buy the skin for $9.99
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IDK but Infested Odin looks bad ass
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On November 07 2014 03:19 Diamond wrote:
It's good because people got really good at diving the shit out of auto attack based Valla imo. If you dive a W max it's actually very difficult to dive her. It's also MUCH better at solo laning.
Still Tychus is the best Bloodlust target in the game. Odin with it is changes teamfights and overcomes the one weakness of Odin (it's relative slowness).
I didn't feel that way. I'd rather take Rain of Vengeance on single target Valla to prevent diving than wasting a bunch of talent points getting all the W upgrades just so I can kite with Frost Shot. That and solo laning has never mattered at all. Her clear is a bit better, but her clear isn't bad either way and with Battle Momentum > Searing Attacks (which is a perfectly acceptable substitution IMO) it's pretty much just as good.
The thing is that with 10 stacks of Hatred and 10 of Discipline while lusted, she can easily outduel a Bloodlusted Odin. It takes 6 attacks tops to break the Odin's health bar and after that Tychus is just food. Obviously this ignores the team aspect and Odin has a slightly longer range which can be a problem, I still say she's generally better on a Lust team, with the exception of the Abathur double Odin strat which is fucking ridiculous.
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If you get 20 autoattacks in a row in a teamfight without dying as Valla, the enemy team seriously messed up.
In solo que anything goes, but a comp team will dive around the Rain and obliterate you.
Odin just requires pressing R and can shoot from 14 miles away.
Edit: Also solo laning is VERY important at any decent level of play. Try to hold a 1v4 on Haunted mines of 1v3 on other maps with auto-attack Valla. It doesn't work very well.
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EPT
