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8748 Posts
On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? I thought about it and the article still says it's just the current plan.
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On October 26 2014 04:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 04:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 26 2014 03:55 Grumbels wrote: I think it's a bit naive and silly to dismiss people that have valid concerns and/or criticisms with the "just alpha" spiel. First of all, if you don't give the feedback then nobody will actually know about it and it might fly under Blizzard's radar; second of all, there is ample precedent of Blizzard not changing problematic aspects of previous games during beta even while everyone said to keep faith; and third, it's Blizzard, the multi-million dollar company, even if you hurt their feelings by doubting them I imagine their money reserves can soothe their pain.
Case in point, Blizzcon 2011 used Shattered Temple in close positions. SC2 development was hampered from the start, because they were caught between making an Esport and making a game. HotS gets to be treated like a game, which means the devs can just stick to making it more enjoyable, instead of competitive. Actually they never tried to make SC2 an eSports game. At least officially, so unless you have some inside information I'm gonna stick with "not true". eSports and fun video game aren't mutually exclusive, actually it's quite the opposite.
I remember them saying it would be tailored towards competition and esports already when they announced it. So here's a link from when they announced it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/53503-starcraft-ii-panel-discussion-on-art-and-gameplay
"Dilling explains that because Starcraft II is being developed with professional competition in mind, the sequel's special effects will be "tight, fast, and quick" such that they don't obscure the action or slow down your computer. However, "landmark events" like the summoning of the top-level protoss mothership unit will be accompanied by sufficient graphical fanfare to point out their importance."
May 2007
I have a bunch of these bookmarked so I might as well go on:
Q: And what about production queues? A: There you see that Sc2 is orientated towards esports. We have to keep a fragile balance: The game should offer comfortable usage, but it should not play by itself, else the challenge would evaporate. Let's see what the Beta testers say about it.
Source May 2008, one year after unveiling
TL:OK, Blizzard has recently been making moves into the world of E-Sports - you have a dedicated E-Sports team now. With Starcraft 2, will you actually be organizing and sponsoring SC2 events or will you be leaving that to 3rd parties, either professional or in the community? DB: I think Bob [Editor's Note: Bob Colayco, Blizzard PR Manager for SC2] is going to answer this one. Bob: You know, we have an E-Sports team for a reason and I think you're going to see some 3rd party stuff as well, but we definitely like to get hands on with our own things. If you look at what we've done with WoW Arena, we do have the tournament realms and we do regional finals that we run and we sponsor. And then there's the grand finals which we have at Blizzcon, so I think you're going to see a mix of things. I can't say anything specific DB: I think the important message for the community with this one would be, that we love the 3rd party tournaments as well. We love watching those, going to them and seeing them live etc. So we want to do stuff as well, and we want to promote E-Sports overall. <div class="insetQuote r">“We are trying to make this game as complete – like if nobody buys any other product, this game needs to be awesome. Like if Blizzard gets hit by a meteor tomorrow and we all die, at least Starcraft 2 was awesome – that's what it needs to be.”</div>We want E-Sports to grow and grow and grow – ideally with our game of course, but even in the wider world of everybody's games. We think E-Sports is an important component of what video games could become, and we want to take this opportunity with Starcraft 2 to push E-Sports forward. But, we really hope that lots of people out there see how fun it is and jump on board to make their own tournaments for our games or whoever's games. As long as we have a lot of E-Sports out there, we'll have more E-Sports players, more sites and bigger sites. It's just good for the business overall and because we put so much energy into it, it's good for us. So we are really hoping that E-Sports, in the States specifically and in Europe as well takes off like it has in Korea where it's huge. We see that opportunity like “wow this is so fun, there's no reason this couldn't be a world-wide phenomenon” instead of one limited to a few places in the world. December 2009, 2 months before WoL Beta launced. Whole interview is worth reading.
When you use your ass as a source it can come back to bite you 
Regarding David Kim's and Blizzard's more recent comments on "casual vs competitive" in regards to movement tricks:
I also bring up the Muta stacking to Dustin Browder preobably every time I talk to him. He wants to include in in the game but the programming has troubles with it. - Semioldguy, who reviewed SC2 alpha multiple times as Teamliquid press. June 22, 2009 (Source)
"Dustin Browder has noted a few times that they are looking for a solution to [the poor handling of mutalisks]. They have to "break" the engine in order to do it"- Kennigit, July 20th 2008. (Source)
I don't think the "casuals won't understand it" argument is actually genuine. Rather I think they gave up on it in 2009, after having trouble understanding what was causing it. I don't think there were many employees at Blizz who could even notice the difference. Maybe David Kim.
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On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode?
Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products.
Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade.
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On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade.
Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs.
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On October 27 2014 09:45 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade. Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs. did they ever say they want hots to be competitive? all i remember is them saying they want it to be casual and fun, nothing serious, they could as well go with casual approach like they did with every recent game give no fuck about esport and just say they add it "soon".
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If there is no ladder, outside of customs, draft mode is not needed. And surely it's not needed for the promotional alpha showmatches at Blizzcon. Of course they will add it... at some point before release. Maybe it will be at this blizzcon, or it will not. Not that big of a deal. Draft mode without ladder and big enough hero pool is redundant anyways.
And by the way, in order to create Draft mode first they need to figure out the best way to do drafting in this game. Will it be like LoL where you do the bans before the picks, will it be like Dota where drafting is more complicated, who will draft(one guy or everyone will pick his own hero) etc. To do that they will need to do quite a lot of testing and bigger hero pool.
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On October 27 2014 06:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 05:35 TheHumanSensation wrote: Just at the point with almost enough gold to buy my first 7000 hero, might wait for 10000. Who's a hero with a lot of really divergent playstyles? Tassadar and Tyrael come to mind immediately. On the tankier side, maybe Arthas and Anub, but I don't have much experience with them.
I don't think any of those have really divergent play-styles unless you start considering bad builds as divergent. Arthras is probably the most versatile warrior in that he can easily adjust between damage or survivability and adapt to different comps with his talents but his play-style is the same either way.
If you want a warrior with divergent play-styles, you can look at Stitches. He has a tankier build and a damage build.
Of 18~20 heroes I own, I would say Tyrande probably has the most divergent play-styles as she's either a full healing / utility support (spec for healing, trueshot, stuns, and shadowstalk) or a damage dealer with a bit of support. She's bad as a healer but her other support is helpful if your team doesn't need damage. As a damage dealer, she will frequently deal more damage than assassins with a lot less burst but much better pressure and chase.
Abathur probably has the most variety as a hero due to his ulti.
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On October 27 2014 09:59 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 09:45 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade. Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs. did they ever say they want hots to be competitive? all i remember is them saying they want it to be casual and fun, nothing serious, they could as well go with casual approach like they did with every recent game give no fuck about esport and just say they add it "soon". This is a bit anecdotal but Richard Lewis said on Unfiltered that one of the higher ups (Rob Pardo maybe?) confirmed when they were drinking at an event somewhere that Blizzard planned on it being ESPORTS as fuck.
I don't have a source on me because I can't remember what episode, but yeah.
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On October 27 2014 10:54 Dismay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 09:59 kongoline wrote:On October 27 2014 09:45 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade. Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs. did they ever say they want hots to be competitive? all i remember is them saying they want it to be casual and fun, nothing serious, they could as well go with casual approach like they did with every recent game give no fuck about esport and just say they add it "soon". This is a bit anecdotal but Richard Lewis said on Unfiltered that one of the higher ups (Rob Pardo maybe?) confirmed when they were drinking at an event somewhere that Blizzard planned on it being ESPORTS as fuck. I don't have a source on me because I can't remember what episode, but yeah.
Yup, can't remember which episode it was either. It was Chris Sigaty he was talking with iirc.
Sigaty told him Blizz had "big plans" for Heroes as esports. Richard Lewis asked him what "big" meant, and told Sigaty it wouldn't really be considered big enough unless it blew every current ARTS/MOBA out of the water.
Sigaty repated it would be big, but Lewis had his doubts and seemed to think it would be something similar to SC2 WCS ^^
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On October 27 2014 11:38 LaLuSh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 10:54 Dismay wrote:On October 27 2014 09:59 kongoline wrote:On October 27 2014 09:45 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade. Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs. did they ever say they want hots to be competitive? all i remember is them saying they want it to be casual and fun, nothing serious, they could as well go with casual approach like they did with every recent game give no fuck about esport and just say they add it "soon". This is a bit anecdotal but Richard Lewis said on Unfiltered that one of the higher ups (Rob Pardo maybe?) confirmed when they were drinking at an event somewhere that Blizzard planned on it being ESPORTS as fuck. I don't have a source on me because I can't remember what episode, but yeah. Yup, can't remember which episode it was either. It was Chris Sigaty he was talking with iirc. Sigaty told him Blizz had "big plans" for Heroes as esports. Richard Lewis asked him what "big" meant, and told Sigaty it wouldn't really be considered big enough unless it blew every current ARTS/MOBA out of the water. Sigaty repated it would be big, but Lewis had his doubts and seemed to think it would be something similar to SC2 WCS ^^ Ah, Sagaty, you're probably right. Either way, the ESPORTS is out there. We've just gotta wait and see.
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On October 27 2014 09:59 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2014 09:45 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 09:39 Serejai wrote:On October 27 2014 09:18 deth2munkies wrote:On October 27 2014 08:50 NonY wrote:That article doesn't confirm that it's coming. It just says that it's the current plan. Just think about it this way: what reason would they have to not add draft mode? Because it's Blizzard. They are lazy moneygrabbers and have halfassed every product they've released in the last 8 years. Explain to me why we are still giving them the benefit of the doubt after all of this time. Fool me once... But apparently some people can get fooled by Blizzard a dozen times and still blindly defend them. It has almost gotten as bad as Apple products. Will there be a draft mode? Sure. But "common sense" doesn't dictate it will be at Blizzcon; fanboy-ism does. Common sense would actually dictate it will NOT be at Blizzcon given Blizzard's track record over the last decade. Put it this way, they wouldn't restrict SC2 to only 2v2 or 3v3. The esports mode is 1v1. In HotS, the esports mode is draft, the "fun" mode is normal vs. did they ever say they want hots to be competitive? all i remember is them saying they want it to be casual and fun, nothing serious, they could as well go with casual approach like they did with every recent game give no fuck about esport and just say they add it "soon". That's what Blizzard is saying but it's obviously just some internal principle that sounds like a good guideline for developing a game. I've read Day[9] say exactly the same thing about his game, for instance. This idea is in fashion and seems mostly related to Starcraft 2's negative status as an inaccessible game that can only be enjoyed on a competitive level. This was a failure for Blizzard, and in continuing development on new games they will strive not to make the same mistake.
But this doesn't mean that they are not designing Heroes to be a potential esports.
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Hey guys
is this the new esport hit yes/no
cheers
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I played ~60 or so games before the wipe (maybe more). Played another 30 or so since the newest wipe. Still find the game fun, and my overheating issues are better now. Starting to see more and more whiners, but they are fun to tease. I really wish they had a ranking system so I could see where I stand. Like it or not, SC2's league system is pretty great for some kind of league "progression."
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League "progression" can roughly be gauged by their level(skins) as the game is relatively new. I'm not too used I want league progression yet given the amount of hate Dota2 MMR have. Friends who are too scared to play ranked in dota and only wants to play unranked get weird after a while.
On another note, the amount of pings in the game is still rather annoying. They should make it so that you can only ping a maximum of once per every 5 seconds or give me an option to mute a player's pings.
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Removing the only viable form of team communication in a game that heavily relies on team communication seems like a terrible idea.
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Anyone has a suggestion to which hero I should buy next?
Of the free heroes I liked Falcan the most. But then I bought Illidan and absolutely love this hero. I guess they both share a high mobility, and it's probably what I enjoy with them. In League I liked mages with skillshots the most and also mobile meele heroes such as Zed and Fizz, and I generally dislike tanky meele heroes.
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United States1213 Posts
On October 27 2014 22:29 Hider wrote: Anyone has a suggestion to which hero I should buy next?
Of the free heroes I liked Falcan the most. But then I bought Illidan and absolutely love this hero. I guess they both share a high mobility, and it's probably what I enjoy with them. In League I liked mages with skillshots the most and also mobile meele heroes such as Zed and Fizz, and I generally dislike tanky meele heroes.
Zeratul feels the most like those two champs
hes extremely fun
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Gah. They really have to remove this talent gating nonsense, not only is it annoying for me, i'm also annoying my teammates with it, and it's just not a good way of doing whatever they may wanted it to be (some sort of noob help i guess, in which case it should be changed to some kind of "suggested talent for beginners-system")
If it's just a way to legitimize the lvling system then scrap the lvling system altogether. Why would anyone want that anyway?
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Is there any rating system for 5v5 now? Or I just play with random people.
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