EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 114
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ComaDose
Canada10352 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
It brings me the same joy as WC3 did. Blizzard did it to me again  | ||
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PRJ
31 Posts
On August 17 2014 15:33 ComaDose wrote: i like his argument that in pvp since no one can reasonably hit the skill ceiling (easily/ever?) removing elements makes the others more predominant. the anti other game crusade and math examples are pretty fucked up tho. like aiming in cs:go and that thing he keeps doin with the "what separates the winning team" i hope he is getting the help he needs except he's right (to a certain extent). There is a point of course, where even though the skillsets have changed, you've created a situation where the gameplay is no longer fun or interesting or the outcomes are too close to a coinflip to be enjoyable, even though the skill ceiling is technically infinite. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On August 17 2014 15:21 Shaella wrote: So do you not follow the story or what because its pretty clearly established that the dark voice is not the xel naga its one, rogue xel naga for all we know in Zeratul's travels between BW and WoL he met the few surviving Xel Naga which is why he has all this knowledge out of nowhere, because he clearly didn't have all that knowledge when he ran into Duran and his hybrids in the bonus mission in BW Nice of you to assume I don't know the story. | ||
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Shaella
United States14827 Posts
On August 18 2014 05:56 Disengaged wrote: Nice of you to assume I don't know the story. well apparently you don't or i wouldn't have had to explain why in LotV Zeratul could be a servant of the xel'naga | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On August 18 2014 06:21 Shaella wrote: well apparently you don't or i wouldn't have had to explain why in LotV Zeratul could be a servant of the xel'naga The chances of Zeratul coming across any surviving Xel'Naga that are friendly is highly doubtful. Look at the Zeratul flashback missions in WoD. Zeratul discovered this information by other means such as finding clues(research) and eventually coming across the Prophecy in the first flashback mission. When Zeratul brought those Prophecy fragments to the Preservers they talked of the Xel'Naga as a whole with the Fallen One(Dark Voice) basically being at the helm and about how they will bring about the end of the cycle by exterminating all life. If Zeratul were a servant of the Xel'Naga then he wouldn't be going about letting not only Raynor know about it in WoL but also by helping Kerrigan in HotS. Ever since that BW mission with Zeratul and the Xel'Naga hes basically done everything that he can to try and find out more about the Xel'Naga and the more he found out about them the more hes been trying to prevent them from exterminating all life because hes seen the vision of the Overmind thus leading into the final flashback mission. If he were a servant then he would be keeping his mouth shut and let the cycle arrive without anyone being the wiser(Except for Kerrigan probably since she was after the Prophecy as well) and everyone and everything is dead. Anyways, though, this isn't a thread to debate about lore. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
The Good: Games are 15-25 minutes (Longest game went to 33 minutes, but in my first hour of playing I played 4 games, that's unheard of in dota) Easily recognizable and understandable skills, hero abilities. Queuing as your preferred hero, I haven't fully decided if this is good or bad, but for now, I think I like the fact you can play whatever you want every game. The Bad: Heroes behind a pay/gold wall. The prices also seemed quite extreme, $6.50/$10.00 per hero and costume? Seemingly little to do to out play an opponent in the lane phase. I can't imagine 2 skilled players accomplishing anything 1v1 in a lane. Neither should die and both will just sort of stand around collecting XP or whatever. The heroes look really stupid while mounted, it's not even comically bad, it's legitimately distracting. The Awful: Cannot skip the tutorial. Abilities/Skills behind an 'experience' lockout. Not only do I only get 6 heroes but I have to level up those heroes before I can properly use all of their abilities. Where do they come up with this stuff? Hero skill scaling: My first game I played as Diablo, my W (aoe fire) was hitting for 154dmg late game and all the heroes had 4000-5500hp, what on earth is the point? Even early game it was mostly useless damage, I think my starting HP was ~1600 and the skill hit for ~60. Overall the game will never be a dota replacement for me but I can ultimately see the merits of a faster, more easily accessible moba. However, I do believe Blizzard needs to work on something to achieve that 'X' factor. The game seemed more or less 'unexciting' perhaps its because of my lack of game knowledge, but there wasn't much that got me excited while playing and I certainly don't have any desire to watch HOTS. Having said that, while not often, I could see me and some friends playing a few games here and there when we want to mess around but don't have the time/energy to commit to dota. I'll try out the game a bit more on my own as well, but so far, the solo queue experience was pretty awful, with a lot of people leaving games (which doesn't seem to be punished at the moment). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And I agree that some of the tanks have “wet noddles” for weapons and they need to increase their damage a bit. But then again, a lot of them are there for lock down so the real damage dealers can get their shit done. | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
On August 19 2014 00:56 crms wrote: Hello, I decided to re-install and play a bit last night. Here are my brief thoughts as a hardcore dota player (thousands of hours, games, and play competitively in amateur tournaments) The Good: Games are 15-25 minutes (Highest game went to 33 minutes, but in my first hour of playing I played 4 games, that's unheard of in dota) Easily recognizable and understandable skills, hero abilities. Queuing as your preferred hero, I haven't fully decided if this is good or bad, but for now, I think I like the fact you can play whatever you want every game. The Bad: Heroes behind a pay/gold wall. The prices also seemed quite extreme, $6.50/$10.00 per hero and costume? Seemingly little to do to out play an opponent in the lane phase. I can't imagine 2 skilled players accomplishing anything 1v1 in a lane. Neither should die and both will just sort of stand around collecting XP or whatever. The heroes look really stupid while mounted, it's not even comically bad, it's legitimately distracting. The Awful: Cannot skip the tutorial. Abilities/Skills behind an 'experience' lockout. Really? Not only do I only get 6 heroes but I have to level up those heroes before I can properly use all of their abilities? Where do they come up with this stuff... Hero skill scaling: My first game I played as Diablo, my W (aoe fire) was hitting for 154dmg late game and all the heroes had 4000-5500hp, what on earth is the point? Even early game it was mostly useless damage, I think my starting HP was ~1600 and the skill hit for ~60. Overall the game will never be a 'dota' replacement for me but I can ultimately see the merits of a faster, more easily accessible moba. However, I do believe Blizzard needs to work on something to achieve that 'X' factor. The game seemed more or less 'unexciting' perhaps its because of my lack of game knowledge, but there wasn't much that got me excited while playing and I certainly don't have any desire to watch HOTS. Having said that, while not often, I could see me and some friends playing a few games here and there when we want to mess around but don't have the time/energy to commit to dota. I'll try out the game a bit more on my own as well, but so far, the solo queue experience was pretty awful, with a lot of people leaving games (which doesn't seem to be punished at the moment). I really like system with you locking your heroes in before you actually queue. I hate the fact I'm getting more than often counterpicked in AP in Dota 2. However, I'm curious if Blizzard will implement this system in competitive gaming aswell or if they will use a traditional pick phase. I don't think a laning phase exists in this game. It's mostly Dota 2 players sticking to their guns. It might give you a small edge in XP the first few minutes but I feel like clearing mercenary camps/going for the map objectives is the way to play it. Otherwise I agree with most of what you said. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
How good is healing in this game (like, healing abilities  | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
On August 19 2014 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote: From somebody who's never played and virtually never watched: How good is healing in this game (like, healing abilities From my experience healing is more over time rather than straight up burst heal. There are more heroes which can actually heal compared to Dota 2, but it's not like WoW where you go from almost 0 to full hp in mere seconds. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On August 19 2014 00:56 crms wrote: Hello, I decided to re-install and play a bit last night. Here are my brief thoughts as a hardcore dota player (thousands of hours, games, and play competitively in amateur tournaments) The Good: Games are 15-25 minutes (Highest game went to 33 minutes, but in my first hour of playing I played 4 games, that's unheard of in dota) Easily recognizable and understandable skills, hero abilities. Queuing as your preferred hero, I haven't fully decided if this is good or bad, but for now, I think I like the fact you can play whatever you want every game. The Bad: Heroes behind a pay/gold wall. The prices also seemed quite extreme, $6.50/$10.00 per hero and costume? Seemingly little to do to out play an opponent in the lane phase. I can't imagine 2 skilled players accomplishing anything 1v1 in a lane. Neither should die and both will just sort of stand around collecting XP or whatever. The heroes look really stupid while mounted, it's not even comically bad, it's legitimately distracting. The Awful: Cannot skip the tutorial. Abilities/Skills behind an 'experience' lockout. Really? Not only do I only get 6 heroes but I have to level up those heroes before I can properly use all of their abilities? Where do they come up with this stuff... Hero skill scaling: My first game I played as Diablo, my W (aoe fire) was hitting for 154dmg late game and all the heroes had 4000-5500hp, what on earth is the point? Even early game it was mostly useless damage, I think my starting HP was ~1600 and the skill hit for ~60. Overall the game will never be a 'dota' replacement for me but I can ultimately see the merits of a faster, more easily accessible moba. However, I do believe Blizzard needs to work on something to achieve that 'X' factor. The game seemed more or less 'unexciting' perhaps its because of my lack of game knowledge, but there wasn't much that got me excited while playing and I certainly don't have any desire to watch HOTS. Having said that, while not often, I could see me and some friends playing a few games here and there when we want to mess around but don't have the time/energy to commit to dota. I'll try out the game a bit more on my own as well, but so far, the solo queue experience was pretty awful, with a lot of people leaving games (which doesn't seem to be punished at the moment). So far, my only real gripe is the greedy prices. I too disagree with the free rotation/buy your heroes model, but I think it is here to stay. Regarding outplaying your opponent: this is a common mistake among Dota players. You are still approaching the game as if there were an actual laning phase, when really there isn't. Okay, maybe there is, but it lasts 2-3 minutes at the most. And even that is not necessary. I see it a lot in my games too: some people ignore the objectives and stick to their lane far too much. HotS encourages you to move around a LOT, and after the first 2 minutes or so (or even before that), you really shouldn't stay on one lane for more than 30 seconds unless you're pushing. It's not uncommon to move as five right away, and have a 5v5 right off the bat when the gates open. So yeah, the game wasn't designed to have big 1v1 showdowns. It's more about moving together as a team, accomplishing objectives, permanent fighting, and so on. The locked talents actually aren't that bad in my opinion. It takes one win with a friend during the weekend to unlock them all. Otherwise, more like 1-2 wins. Yeah, it sucks a bit more if you're losing a lot, but even then it's not a major annoyance in my opinion. From my understanding, the old system was far worse and a lot closer to actual pay to win (I could be wrong seeing as I didn't have access then, but what I've read about it is pretty unanimous). I think the talents are in for some change anyway, whether it is the actual talents themselves or the way they are obtained/the way they work. Diablo is actually pretty interesting and tricky to play. He is all about positioning and using your E to land your Q properly. His W is a lot less powerful, though with a certain Trait it grants you a damage aura. It also has certain purposes: for instance, it may allow you to demount a hero you're chasing, or it can reveal a cloaked hero too. I agree though, his W should be reworked. I'm pretty sure we'll see some changes in hero skills too, it's only normal. Overall, I can only tell you a few things: try not to play HotS like you play Dota. Focus on objectives, on creep camps, and on teamfights/ganks. I cannot stress enough how irrelevant the so-called laning phase is. Yes, it's important to have at least one hero on each lane at the beginning so that you don't fall behind on XP, but beyond that, there is much more incentive to be moving around than to stick to one lane. Once you understand that, it's 20 minutes of pure, raw action, and I personally love it. edit: have a look at that if you want to have a bit more insight into a HotS game. Good casting by Khaldor by the way, you can tell this is the kind of game he really likes (it is reminiscent of wc3, at least for me). | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
it sounds like crazy fun game. something i could play and enjoy at the same time with my RL friends who arent really into gaming... p.s. too bad there is no interest in the game tho, maybe it has to do with the fact u can't actually test what you see on stream (closed alpha, right?) | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
Also, pinging a mounting/cloaked hero is great. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On August 19 2014 02:24 snailz wrote: coming from someone who only watched Allstars for few hours in first days of alpha, and never played any moba whatsoever... so you're telling me there are no lanes, games are short, dynamic and action packed, you fight in groups of five, there is no real snowballing, xp and skills(/how u build char?) are different by design, you can pick your own hero, and u have different scenarios depending on which map you get? it sounds like crazy fun game. something i could play and enjoy at the same time with my RL friends who arent really into gaming... p.s. too bad there is no interest in the game tho, maybe it has to do with the fact u can't actually test what you see on stream (closed alpha, right?) It's very fun. You should watch the link I provided. It is a "promatch" between two HotS teams, cast by Khaldor. Right now, the game has little exposure. The reddit has 20k members though, but other than that, not much. It seems to be voluntary on Blizzard's part too. For example, they have forbidden people/organizations to host "big" tournaments, or tournaments/leagues with prizes. Only low profile stuff. Mostly because the game isn't ready to handle that. We all know Blizzard can jump-start the hype train quite well. As of now, HotS really is a work in progress, so time will tell. As far as I'm concerned, I can tell I am going to love this game. Especially with a real matchmaking system in play. I can only imagine that there will be a veto system for the maps, and possibly a drafting mode. I think Blizzard is certainly considering the last one, for competitive purposes. They've stated they don't want to take care of the e-sport side of HotS and focus on the game at hand, but I'm pretty sure a competitive scene will sprout very quickly. Essentially, it already is, since we have "promatches" (though that is to be taken with a grain of salt, I think). All in all, if you are lucky enough to get invited, by all means try it out. I think it will appeal to a lot of people. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10115 Posts
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
Also I'm a little confused by Murky, is there some sort of reveal when he respawns at the egg? I kept getting vision of him at random times. I do realize that taking objectives/pushing will help deal with Murky. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Last game ended... I had the highest Siege Damage in the game (92k) and highest Hero Damage in the game (62k). I was also the only person on the team to ever visit a Tribute during the entire game. The enemy team ended up cursing us half a dozen times. My teammates were as follows: Valla with 1k Siege and 22k Hero Tank with 12k Siege and 23k Hero Sonya with 0 Siege and 26k Hero Gazlowe with 7k Siege and 14k Hero Murky on the other team, for comparison, was at 31k Siege and 26k Hero. About five minutes before we lost my teammates all started cussing me out and blaming me for the loss, claiming I was terrible at Murky, they hated free Murky week, I was afk all game (lol?), and the other team's Murky was far better. Sonya didn't know there was a TAB menu with stats on it and kept telling me that I was afk because they saw me "feeding turret on other team like noob" and "suicide many time". Valla kept telling me I wasn't contributing to team fights and that I needed to google a guide on how to do damage. Gazlowe told me I sucked because I wasn't killing mercs, and our siege tank kept spamming me in Russian so I'm not sure what was said but it was probably equally stupid. This kind of shit was amusing a week ago when it started cropping up often (must've been a big beta invite wave) but now it's just turning into LoL or HoN-levels of retardation in public matchmaking. I really hope they add a proper MMR system soon so these awful players will be filtered out of my bracket. /End rant | ||
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