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On October 18 2016 01:21 Schelim wrote:
maybe we get sick city rewards for it?
i don't really understand how that's gonna work though, how does one make a multiplayer mode harder for only one of the players?
At 12 wins you apparently get 50 packs, 3 golden legendaries and lots and lots of gold and dust.
But at the price of 1000 gold for entry, I'd rather just buy 10 packs rather than gambling it and end up getting less.
Edit: The reward for no win is just a single pack (Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/57y4al/introducing_heroic_tavern_brawl_news/d8vvp9a). I'm not playing this, I'd rather have 10 guaranteed packs
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I've always advocated for a more competitive and skill-based Hearthstone but this is going about it entirely wrong. It's already a problem that unless you want to play face decks or shaman you have to shell out ungodly amounts of cash as a new/casual player, so here comes a brawl that does nothing but reinforce that and help the rich get richer.
I look forward to people figuring out what the average rewards at each win are, but BB himself in that reddit post says "...so the rewards are weighted heavily towards the high end of wins." Great! So the F2Pers who value every bit of gold they can get will statistically get shafted after paying the equivalent of $10 for a single run, while they who paid hundreds for entire collections can jump in carefree to the inevitable shaman and warrior fest for their chance at yet more golden legendaries. This shouldn't even be called a brawl, it's normal ranked with a paywall but still manages to discourage creativity even more.
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Too much info missing, but I'm going to try it at least. I main arena and I barely play ladder, and if so I only play wild, so I wish they could add something similar to arena. The 12 win rewards in arena are a joke compared to the ones shown in Heroic Brawl... but hey it's a time limited mode so it makes sense I guess. At least a great gold sink finally.
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Heroic brawl is such a bait to get people to drain their gold before the next expansion. 1000g for entry really? Gold is the most valuable resource in HS especially with card sets rotating out with standard. They probably noticed people were playing less arena hoarding gold thus less real money sales and are testing a dramatic way to remedy this.
Then theres the whole build your standard deck which lowers the chance of 12 wins drastically. In arena you can out draft your opponents and win the super deck lottery but not here. You might say constructed accounts for skill but HS is a numbers game more so than anything. All you are going to see here is shaman shaman shaman with their overtuned cards taking board or hunter and OTK decks with the capacity to take your face. All of which hold 1-8% variance over each other which makes reach 12 wins almost impossible.
Lastly the rewards are disproportionate to standard arena. 0-3 wins grants 1 card pack and its not far fetched to think the rewards stay unfavored up to 11 wins only paying out on 12. Don't play this brawl unless you have excess resources to spare.
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what a punishment for free2play players. Give me a week and I'd farm at least one shot at beating fish and losing to pros.
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What does this even mean?
"You can participate in Heroic Brawl for a limited amount of completed runs."
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On October 18 2016 06:32 litlnoobs wrote:
What does this even mean?
"You can participate in Heroic Brawl for a limited amount of completed runs."
Well the brawl will only be going on for a week, and there will be a cap on how many times you can enter.
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Thats one way to remove excess gold ahead of the expansion announcement at blizzcon.
Unless you get six wins you will lose value in this brawl.
![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/JMK5MJ92QKFD1476732816485.jpg)
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Welp that's pretty much what I expected, 100% not even gonna attempt this as a F2P player. I need to save all the gold I can for packs in the next expansion so I can have a chance at being remotely competitive then, not blow it all on the chance to get at least 9 wins in this now (which is what I subjectively think I'd have to win to make a 1000 gold investment worth it).
To put it in perspective, that's a 75% required win rate at minimum when a deck is generally considered legend capable if it achieves a 60-65% win rate at high ranks. To get the highly touted 12 win reward you'd need an 85.7% win rate at least against what will only be the strongest net decks and likely experienced players. That's not at all to say it can't be done, big win streaks happen and good players who get decently lucky will undoubtedly get 12 wins sometimes. But for those of us still struggling to get all the required classic legendaires and who start saving gold for an expansion right after the previous one is released, this is insane. I don't want to be unfairly negative but this definitely feels rather like money grubbing to me.
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Definitely a great deal of irony the only way a F2P player can really afford this would be to be a top tier arena player, but such a player will likely not be interested in a constructed event like this in the first place. Honestly confused as to who this is supposed to be for? People who drop money on the game like it's nothing won't need the rewards(and most of them frankly aren't good enough to hit the top tier ones anyway) while the high entrance fee keeps free to play people from participating.
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Following the most recent (and quite unexpected) nerfs, I think this is more of an effort by Blizz to show the competitive players that they give a shit about them. I understand lots of people play casually on their phone and treat it more like Angry Birds or some shit, but this game will immediately die if players like Kolento don't feel like their hours of investment and skill give them an advantage.
Finally, we have a mode that is targeted at the more competitive end of HS, which will hopefully be followed by an expansion that includes zero RNG effects 
Whether or not I'll ever personally feel like taking such a gamble is another thing, but I totally get why they're trying to push in this direction, and it's another great tool for the streamers.
People have also been asking for sit-and-go style tournaments in HS for ages, and this is how they've implemented it.
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While this is not for me I've got a feeling that they are using this to test out a tournament style mode. Kind of interested to see how this all pans out and how well the best players do in this
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This heroic brawl business is completely batshit and no sane person will attempt it. Obvious attempt to drain gold before the expansion. Will be fun to check out some streamers try it though.
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Blizz even suggested that if you're not playing it, maybe hop over to our favorite streamer and watch them do it. I'm pretty sure this is just to increase HS' popularity in a different way.
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On October 18 2016 09:48 NovaAurora wrote:
Welp that's pretty much what I expected, 100% not even gonna attempt this as a F2P player. I need to save all the gold I can for packs in the next expansion so I can have a chance at being remotely competitive then, not blow it all on the chance to get at least 9 wins in this now (which is what I subjectively think I'd have to win to make a 1000 gold investment worth it).
To put it in perspective, that's a 75% required win rate at minimum when a deck is generally considered legend capable if it achieves a 60-65% win rate at high ranks. To get the highly touted 12 win reward you'd need an 85.7% win rate at least against what will only be the strongest net decks and likely experienced players. That's not at all to say it can't be done, big win streaks happen and good players who get decently lucky will undoubtedly get 12 wins sometimes. But for those of us still struggling to get all the required classic legendaires and who start saving gold for an expansion right after the previous one is released, this is insane. I don't want to be unfairly negative but this definitely feels rather like money grubbing to me.
It is a money-grabber of the worst kind! They actually rake (=hous profit) ~30% of the gold spent compared to if we spent it all on packs directly. That is daylight robbery. Only VERY good players will try this, it will possibly be more difficult than playing in legend rank, as some people experiment and drop down there once they got in.
Maybe if I had 100k gold and a complete collection...
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On October 18 2016 17:14 Hearken wrote:Following the most recent (and quite unexpected) nerfs, I think this is more of an effort by Blizz to show the competitive players that they give a shit about them. I understand lots of people play casually on their phone and treat it more like Angry Birds or some shit, but this game will immediately die if players like Kolento don't feel like their hours of investment and skill give them an advantage. Finally, we have a mode that is targeted at the more competitive end of HS, which will hopefully be followed by an expansion that includes zero RNG effects Whether or not I'll ever personally feel like taking such a gamble is another thing, but I totally get why they're trying to push in this direction, and it's another great tool for the streamers. People have also been asking for sit-and-go style tournaments in HS for ages, and this is how they've implemented it.
Game really doesn't need competitive play at all someone on the hearthstone reddit did the math and the number of people who use the reddit is at most 1% of Hearthstones total players, and even then not all of those are competitive players so "competitive" hearthstone really makes up less than 1% of the game so it doesn't matter what competitive players do as far as the survival of the game goes because only the smallest fraction of the community actually cares about it.
More to the point this isn't really that great for competitive players either because matchmaking being wins based means it will come down in a large amount to whether you queue into that rank 20 player with too much money or the legend tryhard looking for some golden cards in your first couple matches when which you get will be totally random.
On the flip side the rewards aren't as bad as people have been making them out as - yes you need 9 wins to get your value back just in packs, but you don't get just packs so I don't see the problem there. At 5 wins you'll get 6 pack, 220 gold(2 more packs) and 220 dust(2 more packs worth of dust) so the break even point is only at 5 wins while hitting 9 wins is where you pull in big rewards.
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So, initally I thought this would be very unpopular, thinking more about it I'm not so sure.
Admittedly, it has a very steep payout that will push out many f2p players and players who have limited collections. But it does do a few good things:
1. It creates a mode that's much more competitive, as another poster said above. Ladder really feels like it doesn't matter. None of it matters, so many players don't try to improve. They don't think "what could I have done differently?" They don't think "What are the top 3 decks I'm expecting to run into on ladder, and what would do well against those three?" A lot of people are not really trying any more, because the ladder doesn't really matter. And that leads to frustration.
This new game mode creates a high stakes competitive atmosphere where people will have to actually care, and actually try, and actually think constructively about the game. It could actually give people a much more positive attitude about standard. (Or it could backfire completely).
2. (some) People like to gamble.
3. Streamers will basically have to do this for viewers, because viewers will wanna see this. It's a bit like throwing people into a gladiator's ring to fight for your amusement, but hey, it's for the entertainment of the masses.
4. This definitely is the testing out of a new game mode. They may keep it as an occasional brawl replacement, or make it a regular game mode / arena variant. But this is definitely testing interest, both for players and viewers.
5. I haven't done the math yet on it, but honestly, while the payout is certainly steep, it's not necessarily stingy (again, I'd have to do the math or check someone else's math before I could conclude that). But realize that the top payout is really huge honestly. 50 packs, 1100 dust, 1100 gold, and 3 golden legendaries is pretty much equivalent to 12000 gold. That's about 6 months worth of quest gold from a f2p player's perspective. And even if things are very competitive, someone has to win every game.
6. People really like to gamble.
Really, the worst thing about it is that the people who are most likely to play, and the people who are most likely to do well out of those who play, are not in need of packs or dust at all. Maybe when the next set comes out, and the packs awarded are from the new set, then maybe it'll look better.
Of course, as people have implied, their goal may be (in part) to drain gold from players before the next expansion. I definitely see that, though I feel there are many other (legitimate) things they are trying to accomplish here as well. Personally I don't think Hearthstone is in a place right now where people are going to view such a thing favorably, but again, they're just testing out interest both for us both as players and as viewers.
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On October 19 2016 05:25 Nakara wrote:
...the number of people who use the reddit is at most 1% of Hearthstones total players...
...it doesn't matter what competitive players do as far as the survival of the game goes...
Don't pay any attention to those %s dude, they mean nothing. At rank 10 you're in the top 5.5% of HS players apparently, which is obviously meaningless without context. What % of players have played this week? What % of players installed the app on their phone and never played again? What % of players are arena only? etc. etc.
My wife plays for instance. She's one of the "HS players" you're talking about who doesn't go on Reddit. The fact that she's included in any player %s is a complete fucking joke as it's basically just another Candy Crush to her.
The point I was trying to make is that HS is a clown fiesta right now. If you watch the pros streaming, they all seem to be losing the will to play the game. I think the Yogg/Tuskarr nerf combined with stuff like this is Blizzard's way of trying to ensure the future of the game. The more likely it is for a casual to beat a pro (through RNG etc.), the less likely it is for a pro to continue playing in the long term, as there really is no return on their time investment.
Regardless of how small the % of legend players are, without pro players and the huge twitch numbers, I think the game would die pretty quickly.
Ensuring that the pros have an incentive to play the game is surely just as important as fun modes for casuals. Seems to me that pros like Kolento, StrifeCro etc. would be able to leverage their experience and skill in order to achieve better rewards in this mode than the average casual, giving them more incentive to keep playing the game.
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I seriously have to wonder if Blizzard even wanted HS to be competitive at all given cards like knife juggler in the classic set. And later Yogg-Saron and Barnes.
And until we have a way of punishing curvestone, I'm gonna claim that Yogg is a necessary evil for the game
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Buying two welcome bundles will give you 20 packs and 2 legendaries which is roughly equivalent to 9 or 10 wins in heroic tavern brawl, and for the same cost. Seems like a very bad value with $. And obviously you want to save gold for the expansion if you are f2p.
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EPT
