My humble opinions: Mad Scientist - secrets are of limited viability already, don't think this will be useful outside of some very rare niches. Sludge Belcher - i like this card, may be quite annoying for aggro decks. Not sure about Stoneskin Gargole, only viability that i can think of is vs aggro but then it would have to heal itself for at least 2 in order to be mana efficent. Looks decent vs hunter traps. Maexxna - will most probably be card efficent very often, basically a cobra that's 3 mana more expensive for 5 more HP, which is good for this type of passive. Stalagg - i think we had already enough discussion about that one :p
On July 22 2014 01:51 Hryul wrote: Mad scientist ultra stronk. looks like a buff to both mage and hunter. (maybe even more for mage) don't know about pally.
sludge belcher is one more miracle killer stabilizer in the midgame. will def make huge burst combos difficult.
the gargoyle seems mostly useless, but has a nice lore effect.
maexxna seems really interesting. for 6 mana she is actually playable and 8 health is really beefy.
stalagg seems to confirm the other leaked cards. but it mostly looks like gimmicky play because having stalagg and feugen seems unreliable.
The gargoyle was also in the leaked article, as well as belcher (although it was a 4/3 in the leak),
Mad Scientist could be useful in a paladin aggro deck list considering the new secret a 3/2 buff on turn 2/3 is huge and this would allow that to happen more consistently.
Maexxna looks huge for priest, think of all the druid cards it kills and all the other cards not to mention it will almost always be a card for a card (unless they silence it and trade)]
Sludge Belcher, something I would add to my handlock, see the ironfist handlock discussion about 5 drops. Could be very nice there.
Looking forward to the new possibilities will start to play properly again (been busy lately)
On July 22 2014 01:48 Kaniol wrote: My humble opinions: Mad Scientist - secrets are of limited viability already, don't think this will be useful outside of some very rare niches. Sludge Belcher - i like this card, may be quite annoying for aggro decks. Not sure about Stoneskin Gargole, only viability that i can think of is vs aggro but then it would have to heal itself for at least 2 in order to be mana efficent. Looks decent vs hunter traps. Maexxna - will most probably be card efficent very often, basically a cobra that's 3 mana more expensive for 5 more HP, which is good for this type of passive. Stalagg - i think we had already enough discussion about that one :p
At 5 mana Sludge Belcher won't do enough against aggro. It will disrupt Leeroy combo decks that don't carry a pocket silence/sap.
Mad Scientist - seeing that blizzard are working hard to make secret decks viable i imagine this card is going to see play. People are used to underestimating secrets, however i can't possibly imagine blizz throwing so much effort into secrets just so they end up unplayable still. It will be interesting to see how this will work out, to say the least.
Sludge Belcher - I... don't know what to think about this card. A Sen'jin Shieldmasta for 5 mana is not very inspiring and the Goldshire Footman it spawns after dying is very underwhelming too. The only thing i can think of is combo with Avenge... that's about it xD
Stoneskin Gargoyle - I REALLY like this card. Any class that can buff it up can draw out great utility from it. It is voulnerable to silences and removal, but its a nice little minion that can be buffed with something small like a Mark of the Wild / Mark of Nature / Avenge / Inner Fire or just a Defender of Argus... a 2/5 taunt that heals itself every turn to full can be super annoying.
Maexxana - Its cool. I'm not really sure if i'll take something out of my deck to put this in. Weather this card will be playable or not will depend heavily on the meta. If the metagame is late-game heavy i don't think it will be worth taking this. However i can see Maexxana wrecking havoc on midrange decks.
Stalagg - 7/4 for 5 for a deathrattle effect card is pretty nice. If it's not dealt with it can do lots of damage on turn 5. Once again, we need to see how good is Thaddius to determine weather it will be worth having 2 slots for this and Feugen. (Question: this is like Cairne summoning Baine right? Thaddius will not be a collectible card?)
Feugen - Same concept as Stalagg except a 4/7 for 5 is probably better than a 7/4.
Zombie Chow - In tempo and board control decks this is mindblowing. The 5 health restoration won't matter if you haven't really dealt any significant damage to your opponent by turun 2-3 when this is likely to die and a 2/3 for 1 mana is just ridiculous. In classes with weak early game like Paladin (non-aggro) or Priest this will be invaluable.
Deathlord - This can wreck aggro decks. Beyond that its not strong. Against midrange its not very inspiring and against giant decks its horrible. A free card that gets out a giant on my opponents field? No ty!
Echoing Ooze - More cards that interact greatly with buffs. Cards like Blessing of Kings and Mark of Nature are certainly going to see more play!
Spectral Knight - Best 5 drop in the game? While its equivalent in stats, Spiteful Smith, sees little play, its because its effect is orientated towards combo with weapons. Spectral Knight will just be awesome on his own. When you don't need the spell damage from Azure Drake or you're not facing enough aggro to justify Stampeding Kodo i don't see any other 5 drop that i would want in my deck more than Spectral Knight.
Looking forward to Echoing Ooze. If I'm reading it correctly, we can buff it on the turn we drop it, then it will copy with the buff. Does this mean it will hold a Dark Iron Dwarf or Abusive Sergeant Buff? I think so.
Mad Scientist - AMAZING! More secret cards :D Already in love with Secret Keeper in Paladin, this just makes it even more awesome :D 2 - 2 plus a secret for 2 mana is amazing, it also makes your deck less concentrated, so there are more good cards to pick up, use in aggro paladin freeze mage and (hopefully) control hunter!
Sludge Blecher - Compare it to Harvest Golem / Senjin Sheild Masta basically baying 1 mana for a Goldshire Footman, however you only pay the cost of 1 card, HOWEVER it also costs 5 mana and can't be used on turn 1 or 4 or all the turns in between, average and used only if aggro is huge + some kind of token deck.
Stoneskin Gargoyle - Amazing in arena, so so in constructed. Stick a Blessing of Kings on this and you win games in arena, cool idea and nice stats to back up the ability. Although not as exiting as the others, it is a solid drop but i don't think we will see it in constructed.
Maexxna - Control Hunter? Good card, only wish it had a few more health to survive the Giant hits / Ragnaros hits which it will inevitably face. For only 6 mana it also shows a big threat and I think will do well in decks which have no direct removal, eg Druid.
Stalagg - As said before, we already know about this one :D
*edit* completely missed the other cards xD however i can't be bothered to write about them :/
Maexxna, mad scientist and sludge belcher seem quite useful. Especially mad scientist seems like a much better version of arcanist, if it puts it onto the field from your deck. Thats a lot of tempo and it filters your deck. Turn 1, coin mad scientist Turn 2 Scientist pulls duplicate / mirror image
On July 22 2014 02:03 skatbone wrote: Looking forward to Echoing Ooze. If I'm reading it correctly, we can buff it on the turn we drop it, then it will copy with the buff. Does this mean it will hold a Dark Iron Dwarf or Abusive Sergeant Buff? I think so.
Seems like it. It may not turn temporary buffs into permanent buffs, depending on whether it copies the buffs or just the stats. If we use Faceless Manipulator as an example, the stats will fall off when the buff does.
You know what I really really want to see from blizzard to balance the sides out, a 3 mana card that silences and charges with all the strong effects coming in we need some more ways to lose the effects and help out aggro. (Coming from a mostly control player)
Deathlord seems explicitly designed to hardcounter aggro and zoo (to a much lesser extent, Sludge Belcher does as well).
Zombie Chow is really interesting--usually a 1 drop like that goes best in aggro decks, but the deathrattle cancels that out. But its still a great body for the cost, so i could see midrange decks that primarily fight for board control getting some good use out of it.
Curious what Thaddius does. If he's really great then we could get some interesting combo decks built around Feugen and Stallag.
Stoneskin Gargoyle and Echoing Ooze seem best suited to classes with good buffs like Pally. A Blessing of Kings on Echoing Ooze is outstanding value, and on Stoneskin Gargoyle is created a 5/8 that heals to full each turn, which is a nightmare to deal with without hard removal.
Mad Scientist seems too situational to run unless you're really playing a full Secrets deck, and I still don't think those will be viable.
Spectral Knight is one of those cards like Loatheb that will really cause problems for decks that rely on spells for board control.
All in all, I think the biggest impact on the meta will be Deathlord. A turn 3 2/8 with Taunt just shuts down aggro and zoo so incredibly hard, and the deathrattle isn't really a huge drawback in those matchups.
On July 22 2014 02:03 skatbone wrote: Looking forward to Echoing Ooze. If I'm reading it correctly, we can buff it on the turn we drop it, then it will copy with the buff. Does this mean it will hold a Dark Iron Dwarf or Abusive Sergeant Buff? I think so.
It looks like the same as Faceless Manipulator, so Dark Iron Dwarf buff should only last until the end of that turn.
Holy shit that 5 mana faerie dragon that looks absurd as it destroys most of the cards in the mana region it is at the moment. Echoing Ooze is a dream card also that Zombie is almost just what I wished for, if it was 2 mana and a 2/4 I would play it in a heartbeat still useful. Deathlord, great for priest but really needs a nerf, it stops aggro dead.
On July 22 2014 02:03 skatbone wrote: Looking forward to Echoing Ooze. If I'm reading it correctly, we can buff it on the turn we drop it, then it will copy with the buff. Does this mean it will hold a Dark Iron Dwarf or Abusive Sergeant Buff? I think so.
It looks like the same as Faceless Manipulator, so Dark Iron Dwarf buff should only last until the end of that turn.
On July 22 2014 02:11 Lobotomist wrote: Ironbeak owls in every deck soon. Mexanna would combo really well with tundra rhino for instant removal that stays on the board
When mad scientist pulls a secret, do you get to see what that secret is? I assume so, but it'd be pretty funny if not.
Even if the animation doesn't reveal it to you, mousing over your own secret shows the card associated with it.
On July 22 2014 02:03 skatbone wrote: Looking forward to Echoing Ooze. If I'm reading it correctly, we can buff it on the turn we drop it, then it will copy with the buff. Does this mean it will hold a Dark Iron Dwarf or Abusive Sergeant Buff? I think so.
It looks like the same as Faceless Manipulator, so Dark Iron Dwarf buff should only last until the end of that turn.
Blessing of Kings, on the other hand, gives you two 5/6's for 6 mana. Between that and amazing synergy with Stoneskin Gargoyle, I expect to see midrange Pally make a strong comeback.
Also, Spectral Knight+Sunfury Protector give you a 6 health taunt that can't be targetted with spells. Meaning, Miracle Rogue has basically no way to get through it except by sacrificing Leeroy, which loses them the game. Between this and Loatheb, Miracle Rogue is absolutely fucked.
I still think Deathlord will have the biggest impact on the meta though. It simply utterly screws aggro decks so hard. OTOH, it really sucks in control matchups, so it presents an interesting tradeoff--including Deathlord in your deck says that you're prepared to take a serious hit in control matchups in exchange for very favorable matchups against aggro.
With some of these cards like gargoyle and ooze a paladin midrangey buff deck could be good, blessing of kings on gargoyle and ooze is really powerful. Even blessing of might on gargoyle for a 4 mana 4/4 that fully heals after one full turn.
I like all these cards.We get a lot of things that were needed.More variety to aggro decks,answers to aggro and combo decks and looks like they are trying to make Priest and classes with secrets more viable.
In theory it seems like a great set of cards.Can't wait to actually play with them.
Zoo looks set to be pretty insane with some of these cards, they get another 2 flame imps (zombie chow) the nerubian egg which is easily buffed in zoo, maybe undertaker although probably not and theres some more reveals left.
Also, Spectral Knight+Sunfury Protector give you a 6 health taunt that can't be targetted with spells. Meaning, Miracle Rogue has basically no way to get through it except by sacrificing Leeroy, which loses them the game. Between this and Loatheb, Miracle Rogue is absolutely fucked.
I honestly don't understand what people see in Stoneskin Gargoyle. How is this better than a Silverback Patriarck? Sure it can be amazing if it's buffed, but that would require having a 1/4 survive a turn (if played on turn 3), as well as having a strong buff in hand...
It can be strong if you buff it the same turn, but the game is probably at a stage where it only leads to you getting 2 for 1'ed by a Yeti or a silence...
On July 22 2014 02:27 Zaros wrote: Zoo looks set to be pretty insane with some of these cards, they get another 2 flame imps (zombie chow) the nerubian egg which is easily buffed in zoo, maybe undertaker although probably not and theres some more reveals left.
Zombie Chow not sure about that being in zoo, I know it's mainly board control but 5 health on the opponent on a minion that can be killed quite easily seems like a bad inclusion.
I like a lot of these new cards they look super good.
Deathlord is definitely going in my shaman deck - against aggro it's insane, and against control I can stall for a turn and then just Earth Shock it. Zombie chow may end up replacing Argent Squire, since the 5 point heal is irrelevant when all I want it to do is trade with a 2-drop. Might replace an Azure Drake with Maexxna, too.
Stalagg and Feugen scream Ramp Druid to me, depending on what Thaddius does. a lot of these cards are also screaming tempo Priest imo, which i would greatly appreciate
On July 22 2014 02:27 Zaros wrote: Zoo looks set to be pretty insane with some of these cards, they get another 2 flame imps (zombie chow) the nerubian egg which is easily buffed in zoo, maybe undertaker although probably not and theres some more reveals left.
Zombie Chow not sure about that being in zoo, I know it's mainly board control but 5 health on the opponent on a minion that can be killed quite easily seems like a bad inclusion.
If it comes out early then your opponent is unlikely to get the full 5hp anyway, Zoo is about board control and this is a really strong card for that, its only bad when you have lost board control and need a few extra points of damage to finish them off, which then you would just keep it in your hand.
On July 22 2014 02:38 Azuzu wrote: Deathlord seems pretty good against zoo! ... until you realize every zoo deck will run it and you'll die before you can kill it.
Risky card for zoo to have although i'll probably try it, could be auto lose if a free ysera or something similar comes out onto the field turn 4 or 5.
So, my first impressions, and not considering the current "meta" (just taking them at face value).
Mad Scientist Cute card, leaning more towards the "fun" side of the spectrum rather than serious value. Perhaps some good synergy in Hunter decks, could potentially make secrets Mage viable. With Riverdare this could be quite funny. [4/10]
Sludge Belcher An alternative to Abomination. Potentially better or worse depending on how you look at it. Probably favours constructed more than arena [6/10]
Stoneskin Gargoyle What's pretty cool about this is I've seen the idea before on a fan made card (one of Fulla's maybe?). Unfourtunately I didn't like it then and don't like it now. Requires a buff to get any true value. [3/10]
Maexxna Again I've seen something like this on a fan made card, I think it was Oberyn Martel on the GoT card ideas. Either way this is fantastic, a very strong legendary. Could be very scary in Druid decks if Innervate is used to rush it out [8/10]
Stalagg We've already seen Feugen and Stalagg in the leaked photos. Kind of hard to tell how good they are without knowing anything about Thaddius. Seeing as their stats are super high for their cost I predict Thaddius will have some kind of detrimental effect [7/10]
Zombie Chow I quite like this, the reverse Flame Imp. A decent turn 1 drop. Normally I'd say he's weak to classes with Weapons but his 3 health puts him out of Stormforged Axe range. I can see this been a valuable pick in arena [6/10]
Deathlord I suppose this is the closest thing we have to a "wall". Very hard to rate it seeing as it's detrimental effect is so heavily RNG based [4/10]
Echoing OozeReminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. Missed the "battlecry" part. Still decent though as other people have pointed out. Could give druid even more Innervate insta-win options [5/10]
Feugen Same as Stalagg. Marginely better as more health trumps more attack. Again, we really need to see Thaddius [8/10]
Spectral Knight A 4/6 for 5 is right on point and the spell protection give this card an extra value boost [7/10]
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
Ah, my mind didn't read the "battlecry" part, I though it did it each turn. Yeah, that sucks compared to what I originally thought it could do.
On July 22 2014 02:42 AssumedNewb wrote: Death Lord is an absolute death sentence to aggro decks
Zombie Chow is more midrange, but still a good anti aggro card and a good 1 drop for anything but aggro
Death Lord seems me so powerfull it is beyond broken, let's see how it plays.
Death Lord is like the Black Knight or Harrison Jones. Its a meta choice--it hardcounters specific deck archetypes incredibly well, but is otherwise really lousy value. Just like if you'd run Black Knight if you face a lot of taunt druid and handlock or Harrison if you're seeing a lot of weapons, Death Lord is strictly a choice for when you're running into tons of aggro and zoo. Because while it is insanely good in those matchups, it is truly awful against most other archetypes. Against a Giant deck, for example, it simply dies having done nothing, then gives your opponent a free card.
Basically it gives all those players who bitch and moan "all I'm seeing on ladder is aggro and zoo, this sucks" a clear choice: put this card in your deck, and never worry about aggro and zoo again. But it also comes with a clear tradeoff, because its mediocre against midrange and downright awful against control.
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
Ah, my mind didn't read the "battlecry" part, I though it did it each turn. Yeah, that sucks compared to what I originally thought it could do.
Not really. If it happened every turn, then any damage dealt to one ooze would also hurt the other.
As it is, this effectively doubles any buff card you combo it with. Two 5/6's for 6 mana when paired with blessing of kings, for example, is outstanding value.
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
Ah, my mind didn't read the "battlecry" part, I though it did it each turn. Yeah, that sucks compared to what I originally thought it could do.
Not really. If it happened every turn, then any damage dealt to one ooze would also hurt the other.
As it is, this effectively doubles any buff card you combo it with. Two 5/6's for 6 mana when paired with blessing of kings, for example, is outstanding value.
lol, obviously we can create "dream scenarios". You're right, when paired with BoK this is a great card. Fact is it still requires "help" and is not good on it's own. Could be strong in arena, even a 1/1 buff makes it useful, but as an epic it could have stiff competition.
On July 22 2014 02:53 sacrilegious wrote: Spectral Knight seems OP
The 5 mana spot really used to be a choice between Azure Drake (most decks), Stampeding Kodo (for Pally), Auctioneer (for Miracle Rogue), and very rarely Stranglethorn Tiger (for midrange priest).
I think Loatheb and Spectral Knight are going to provide some real competition for inclusion. Both of them have great stats for cost and really useful effects.
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
Ah, my mind didn't read the "battlecry" part, I though it did it each turn. Yeah, that sucks compared to what I originally thought it could do.
Erm... no it doesn't. This work amazing with buff cards. Turn 3 you can have double 3/4 taunt as druid (you can have that turn 1 with innervate), turn 6 you can have double 5/6 as paladin. Its a combo-y card but it can work wonders in some decks.
On July 22 2014 02:42 Greendotz wrote: Echoing Ooze Reminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. [5/10]
Are you sure you understood the card text?
It only copies once and it (confirmed) copies buffs is how i understand it.
Ah, my mind didn't read the "battlecry" part, I though it did it each turn. Yeah, that sucks compared to what I originally thought it could do.
Erm... no it doesn't. This work amazing with buff cards. Turn 3 you can have double 3/4 taunt as druid (you can have that turn 1 with innervate), turn 6 you can have double 5/6 as paladin. Its a combo-y card but it can work wonders in some decks.
I expect to see the classes with good permabuff cards (pally, druid, priest) playing around with Echoing Ooze and Stoneskin Gargoyle plus lots of buffs, because both of those cards give outstanding value paired with buffs.
On July 22 2014 02:38 Azuzu wrote: Deathlord seems pretty good against zoo! ... until you realize every zoo deck will run it and you'll die before you can kill it.
Sludge Beltcher seems better for zoo/aggro. Tazdingo stats and summons another taunt to deal with. With Feral Spirit and Sludge Beltcher Shaman will basically be immune to aggro.
On July 22 2014 01:45 huller20 wrote: What are Thaddius' stats?
Vanilla 11/11 for 10 mana
I wonder does "summon Thaddius" mean he goes in your hand or straight on the board? Seems weird that Deathlord is very specific about how the summoned card "goes on the battle field" yet here it just says "summon" Thaddius. I guess other deathrattles say summon, but the consistency seems a little off.
Mad Scientist Tries to empower a weak archetype, but has strength in hunter/mage deck. A 2/2 for 2 that draw and plays a card is force to be reckoned with. [6/10]
Sludge Belcher Not convinced at all, seems me the stat are pretty weak for the cost [3/10]
Stoneskin Gargoyle Hard to rate. Could end very deadly for arena paladins/druid . Otherwise, average. [7/10]
Maexxna A decent legend, but competition for the 6 mana slot is so fierce. I see her competing with Sylvanas and Cairne, though [8/10]
Stalagg Good stats, deadly effect for control decks --> will allow priest control to shine IMHO, as I think Thaddius will be something strong. Awful card alone though. It it is the announced 11/11 the card is an easy 8/10 (for non-warlock slow decks) [6/10]
Zombie Chow Good card for non aggro decks : low downside for a utility card [7/10]
Death Lord Zoo and all facerush deck now unofficially banned. Unless I can't read, the card is COMPLETELY broken. [10/10]
Echoing OozeAfter carefull read, it only echoes once. seems me too small to have a meaningfull effect. [2/10]
Feugen Same as Stalagg. Marginely better as more health trumps more attack. It Thaddisus is really 11/1 then it's an easy 9 [9/10]
Spectral Knight Average, or mediocre without a Sunfury Protector or Defender of Argus . Good with it. Let's see [5/10][/QUOTE]
I'm surprised no one has pointed out yet that Deathlord is going to potentially screw with your opponent's minions, since they'll be forced to play a minion without activating their battelcry.
On July 22 2014 01:45 huller20 wrote: What are Thaddius' stats?
Vanilla 11/11 for 10 mana
I wonder does "summon Thaddius" mean he goes in your hand or straight on the board? Seems weird that Deathlord is very specific about how the summoned card "goes on the battle field" yet here it just says "summon" Thaddius. I guess other deathrattles say summon, but the consistency seems a little off.
"Summon" has always meant the same. The minion goes onto (into) the battlefield.
Sludge Belcher (5) Mana 3/5: Taunt. Deathrattle: Summon a (1/2) slime with taunt. + Show Spoiler +
Double Taunt to stop all aggro/face decks. Also Reincarnate and other fun duplication stuff.
Stoneskin Gargoyle (3) Mana 1/4: At the start of your turn, restore this minion to full health. + Show Spoiler +
Defender of Argus Divine Spirit Inner Fire Gg
Zombie Chow (1) Mana 2/3: Deathrattle: Restore 5 Health to enemy hero. + Show Spoiler +
Auchenai Soulpriest woot woot?!
Echoing Ooze (2) Mana: 1/2 Battlecry: Summon exact copy of this minion at the end of the turn. + Show Spoiler +
Any buff that doesnt cost much and persists. Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Wisdom, Power word shield
Also: please read the card texts precisely before pouring so much missinformation. Yes, cardtexts are not uniform/normalised. There is blue on that topic (something to do with when you see the card for the first time and confusing players). No, oozes do not keep one turn buffs and no they wont replicat over and over. It is just a facless applied to themselves at the end of the round. If you dont know the ins and outs of faceless manipulators, craft one and play with it. it's a great card.
also sry for horrible formatting, I am writing this on a German cell phone.
On July 22 2014 03:08 AssumedNewb wrote: Deathlord Zoo and all facerush deck now unofficially banned. Unless I can't read, the card is COMPLETELY broken. [10/10]
OTOH, its mediocre vs midrange and downright awful against control. Its a meta choice, like Black Knight or Harrison Jones, where the upside against specific decktypes is gamewinning, but in other matchups its crappy.
I think its badly needed. There are points on the ladder where literally all anyone ever plays are rush and zoo, and providing a way to counter that without needing to build your entire deck around it is very much a good thing.
Echoing OozeSeems very strong : a 1/turn incremental advatage. Please not an unkilled ooze May double EVERY turn, as, if I am not mistaken, the echoed ooze also echoes itself [10/10]
You're mistaken. Its effect is a battlecry. It doesn't infinitely copy itself, it just copies itself once. The main advantage is that it will copy buffs you apply that turn, so the potential value with stuff like blessing of kings and mark of nature is great.
Spectral Knight seems like its going to have a huge impact on the meta as it a large threat that cannot be easily removed by all classes. I see this guy being played a lot. Not sure if it is better than Loatheb or not as its effect lasts longer but Loatheb can have a larger impact on the turn it is played.
Zombie Chow is also an interesting card that I'm not quite sure how it will fit in the meta quite yet. I would be surprised if it doesn't pop up in a few decks.
Edit: Nerubian Weblord looks very interesting as well. Difficult to remove for 2 mana with an ability that can significantly impact your opponents mana curve.
On July 22 2014 03:18 ystao wrote: When your Zombie Chow gets killed when you have aucheni soulpriest on board, does it do 5 damage to enemy hero instead?
On July 22 2014 03:12 BlacKcuD wrote: Possible synergies:
Echoing Ooze (2) Mana: 1/2 Battlecry: Summon exact copy of this minion at the end of the turn. + Show Spoiler +
Any buff that doesnt cost much and persists. Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Wisdom, Power word shield
Seems like an easy inclusion in the current Paladin Aggro decks since this card plus Blessing of Might would be so easy/effective. Also as someone else stated Echoing ooze => Innervate => Mark of the Wild could flat out win you the game on turn 1. Definitely a stupid "dream" scenario that requires 3 correct cards in your opening hand, but still you know it's going to happen.
Haunted Creeper: More tokens for token decks? Hunters might like this card if the Spectral Spiders are beasts too.
Kel'Thuzad: incredible if you have the board control. Incredible in tempo and board control decks. This card has so much potential its insane!
Nerub'ar Weblord: RIP battlecries! Deathrattles galore! Very strong card vs rogues among all other classes.
Unstable Ghoul: Son of Abomination? I guess it will be way more effective against aggro than Abomination is at the moment. Its a cool little card.
Wailing Soul: Make a deck of OP cards with drawback deathrattles and use Wailing Soul to make up for that? Kinda makes sense when you want to play stuff like Dancing Runeblades, Deathlord, Zombie Chow, etc.
Thaddius: Holy Sshit! holy shit... H O L Y ! S H I T ! PUT STALAGG AND FEUGEN IN EVERY DECK!
You would spend a card and 2 mana to summon a Goldshire Footman?
If you have no other means to protect your face why not? It provides additional outs for shamans and other control decks when faced with extreme agression. that one footman will stop another 2mana minion from the zoolock hitting you giving you another turn to stabilise. not saying this will be a standard play. u am saying, the synergy is there and more ways to do fancy stuff means for fun and viewing pleasure.
Wailing Soul also so good. RIP freeze mage and strong addition to my watcher priest deck.
And 2 mana 1/4 spider that adds 2 mana cost to battle cry minions, 4/6 fearie dragon..., so many good minions. It's time to be creative again when I have all these cards.
Deathlord at worst will take 2 cards, but gives your opponent one back. 3 + 3 + 2 (abusive) or wolf could drop it for a net of only 1 minion. I guess making the new minion lose its battlecry will give some value also, assuming that is what is drawn.
With cards like spectral and loatheb i'm afraid control becomes shit :/. Also the those extra taunt cards counter face decks. Also all the tempo cards and cards that benefit from board control and buffs etc... Expecting nothing but midrange and mb zoo.
On July 22 2014 03:30 Sufinsil wrote: Deathlord at worst will take 2 cards, but gives your opponent one back. 3 + 3 + 2 (abusive) or wolf could drop it for a net of only 1 minion. I guess making the new minion lose its battlecry will give some value also, assuming that is what is drawn.
Seems a decent balance.
Or your opponent runs a giant deck, or stampeding kodo or cabal shadow priest, and its worse than useless.
Seems like a well balanced card to me. Great against aggro of course, but the tradeoffs in other matchups make it a tough consideration whether to include it or not.
On July 22 2014 03:12 BlacKcuD wrote: Stoneskin Gargoyle (3) Mana 1/4: At the start of your turn, restore this minion to full health. + Show Spoiler +
Defender of Argus Divine Spirit Inner Fire Gg
if gargoyle healing works the same way Ancestral Healing does (and I think it does): Auchenai Soulpriest Your 10/10 taunt self-restoring gargoyle just killed itself.
On July 22 2014 03:33 Algis wrote: With cards like spectral and loatheb i'm afraid control becomes shit :/. Also the those extra taunt cards counter face decks. Also all the tempo cards and cards that benefit from board control and buffs etc... Expecting nothing but midrange and mb zoo.
Control decks like Handlock, ramp druid and Giant Mage are as strong as ever. Stronger, really, since they can hardcounter aggro now. Control warrior should be fine as well.
What have really been nerfed are decks built purely around spells like Miracle Rogue. Miracle Rogue gets screwed really hard by cards like Loatheb and Spectral Knight.
But that strikes me as intentional on Blizzard's part--they want the game to be about fighting for board control, not playing 30 damage solitaire with a deck with like 25 spells+Leeroy in it. Control decks will absolutely still exist, but they will still need to play minions and not just rely purely on spells.
Similarly, I think Aggro decks will still have a place, but as a meta choice--whenever Giant decks become so dominant that Death Lord becomes a really bad choice and people start taking it out of their decks, you'll see Aggro make a comeback and do well until people are forced to make choices to counter it, at which point Giant decks will make a comeback and the cycle will continue.
So, my first impressions, and not considering the current "meta" (just taking them at face value).
Mad Scientist Cute card, leaning more towards the "fun" side of the spectrum rather than serious value. Perhaps some good synergy in Hunter decks, could potentially make secrets Mage viable. With Riverdare this could be quite funny. [4/10]
Sludge Belcher An alternative to Abomination. Potentially better or worse depending on how you look at it. Probably favours constructed more than arena [6/10]
Stoneskin Gargoyle What's pretty cool about this is I've seen the idea before on a fan made card (one of Fulla's maybe?). Unfourtunately I didn't like it then and don't like it now. Requires a buff to get any true value. [3/10]
Maexxna Again I've seen something like this on a fan made card, I think it was Oberyn Martel on the GoT card ideas. Either way this is fantastic, a very strong legendary. Could be very scary in Druid decks if Innervate is used to rush it out [8/10]
Stalagg We've already seen Feugen and Stalagg in the leaked photos. Kind of hard to tell how good they are without knowing anything about Thaddius. Seeing as their stats are super high for their cost I predict Thaddius will have some kind of detrimental effect [7/10]
Zombie Chow I quite like this, the reverse Flame Imp. A decent turn 1 drop. Normally I'd say he's weak to classes with Weapons but his 3 health puts him out of Stormforged Axe range. I can see this been a valuable pick in arena [6/10]
Deathlord I suppose this is the closest thing we have to a "wall". Very hard to rate it seeing as it's detrimental effect is so heavily RNG based [4/10]
Echoing OozeReminds me of Flesheating Ghoul and Questing Adventurer. 70% of the time it will be swept aside easily, but the other times it'll snowball and could single handidly win you the game. Superior to the Imp Master in my opinion. Missed the "battlecry" part. Still decent though as other people have pointed out. Could give druid even more Innervate insta-win options [5/10]
Feugen Same as Stalagg. Marginely better as more health trumps more attack. Again, we really need to see Thaddius [8/10]*bumping this up 1 considering how insane Thaddius is [9/10]
Spectral Knight A 4/6 for 5 is right on point and the spell protection give this card an extra value boost [7/10]
Haunted Creeper Shoddy stats for a 2-drop with a decent enough battle cry, but isn't this essentially a slow 3/2? Either way I'd like to try this out in a Hunter control deck to see how it plays [3/10]
Kel'Thuzad Love it, pretty damn insane really since it applies every turn. What I love most about it is it'll force people to think a bit more. Could deter people from using board wipes so frivolously [10/10]
Nerub'ar Weblord Again, love it! Totally unique, like a Mana Wraith that doesn't fuck you over. Could be great in a specifically built tournament deck [6/10]
Unstable Ghoul Solid enough, a bit niche, but solid. [5/10]
Wailing Soul The stats are good, as for the battlecry... there's probably a really awesome use that I can't think of. At the moment all I can really think of is Ancient Watcher synergy. Not that impressive [3/10]
Thaddius I thought Thaddius would have a negative effect. Considering he's pretty much free and to get him you need to put a good minion and a great minion in your deck? Yeah, I find this a little silly actually. Every one of my decks is going to run BGH when this card is released (maybe ever two BGH). Should also state I'm assuming this isn't actually a card you put in your deck, it can only be summoned, like Baine Bloodhoof [9/10]
Thaddius I thought Thaddius would have a negative effect. Considering he's pretty much free and to get him you need to put a good minion and a great minion in your deck? Yeah, I find this a little silly actually. Every one of my decks is going to run BGH when this card is released
7/4 for 5 mana is not a good minion by any stretch. 4/7 for 5 isn't bad but isn't exactly amazing except maybe for Priest. And all you have to do to prevent the combo is silence whichever one you're going to kill second.
Haunted Creeper (2) Mana: 1/2: Deathrattle: Summon two 1/1 Spectral Spiders. Hunter weapon.3/4 of stats for 2 mean good "stat" value, especially for hunters. 7/10:
Kel'Thuzad (8) Mana: 6/8: At the end of the turn, summon all friendly minions that died this turn. Eventullally an alternative to Ragnaros and Alextrasza. Basically game over if you have board control and are out of opponent burst. Not sure he is better than Rag, though, as he look like a win more 8cost card. 7/10
Nerub'ar Weblord (2) Mana: 1/4: Minions with Battlecry cost (2) more. Insanely great ==> it 's a pain in the ass you can anticipate. Not a gamewinning card, but it will grind you an advantga in most situations. 7/10
Unstable Ghoul (2) Mana: Taunt. Deathrattle: Deal 1 damage to all minions. Extremely good whan you have a bad board situations. Not sure if the card is stong enough to allow a comeback; though. Oh, btw, RIP Blood Imp 8/10
Wailing Soul (4) Mana: 3/5: Battlecry: Silence your other minions. Vanilla test -> fail Great effect -> fail , as it does NOT combo with Venture Co Mercenary (IMHO the biggest candidate) [10/10- (Yeti strength + Yeti thoughness) ] In Arena at least. In constructed, that's another enabler of Silent Watcher, a good one, so a promising 4/10 for acard that will follow craze alchemist in the land of weak gimmicks
Thaddius (10) Mana: 11/11 Alone ? 2/10 But since it's meant to be summonned from its two subminions ....
Thaddius is pretty disappointing just a removal target, dunno if it is even worth running a 7/4 that could get silenced just to get a alarm'obotted deathwing in play.
If Feugen dies for your opponent and Stalagg dies on your side of the board, do you get Thaddius? Any info on how this interaction works as it is not clear from the card text.
On July 22 2014 03:45 Zaros wrote: Thaddius is pretty disappointing just a removal target, dunno if it is even worth running a 7/4 that could get silenced just to get a alarm'obotted deathwing in play.
Thanks
Once, the alarm ot deck will be usable. Think of a hunter decks full of traps, time wasters, 2 trackings and then the dreaded alarm botted Thaddius ...
Thaddius I thought Thaddius would have a negative effect. Considering he's pretty much free and to get him you need to put a good minion and a great minion in your deck? Yeah, I find this a little silly actually. Every one of my decks is going to run BGH when this card is released
7/4 for 5 mana is not a good minion by any stretch. 4/7 for 5 isn't bad but isn't exactly amazing except maybe for Priest. And all you have to do to prevent the combo is silence whichever one you're going to kill second.
There will be interesting situations where both players are using Feugen and Stalagg and there's kind of a Mexican stand off for who plays their initiator first. With Riverdare on the board you could get a crazy situation with 6 Thaddius on your side of the board. I really want to see that.
Its amazing how many of the cards in this expansion are targets for silence or cabal shadow priest. Factor in how amazing Dark Cultist is, and I expect Priest to be the top class in Hearthstone for a while.
Priest is looking very good now, they have two solid one drops with zombie chow and northshire cleric, 2 mana they have nerub'ar weblord, 3 mana they have dark cultist and deathlord and can curve into yeti, feugen, loatheb, cabal shadow priest.
Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Imagine the reaction of the first player to get the turn 7 stallagg, turn 8 kelthuzad combo (we assume stallagg has died at some point, yes, I know its very unlikely, but we all know it will happen at some point)
oh, I get to trade stallagg to get an 11/11 and I get stallagg back at end of turn to summon another 11/11 later? what could possibly make this better? turn 9 Baron Rivendare
Wailing Soul (4) Mana: 3/5: Battlecry: Silence your other minions. Vanilla test -> fail Great effect -> fail , as it does NOT combo with Venture Co Mercenary (IMHO the biggest candidate) [10/10- (Yeti strength + Yeti thoughness) ] In Arena at least. In constructed, that's another enabler of Silent Watcher, a good one, so a promising 4/10 for acard that will follow craze alchemist in the land of weak gimmicks
Since every single minion in Naxx has a deathrattle, and a good number of those have a deathrattle that can give a considerable advantage to your opponent, it seems like a ''Silence all your minions'' effect could be WAY better than it seems at first, in the right deck of course.
There's no way to know exactly how viable it is in Constructed with pure theory crafting.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Well, keep in mind that Deathlord is barely stronger than Oasis Snapjaw (2/8 vs 2/7) and it's deathrattle sure makes up for it.
I think it will be too much of a gamble to see any kind of play.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
Wailing Soul (4) Mana: 3/5: Battlecry: Silence your other minions. Vanilla test -> fail Great effect -> fail , as it does NOT combo with Venture Co Mercenary (IMHO the biggest candidate) [10/10- (Yeti strength + Yeti thoughness) ] In Arena at least. In constructed, that's another enabler of Silent Watcher, a good one, so a promising 4/10 for acard that will follow craze alchemist in the land of weak gimmicks
Since every single minion in Naxx has a deathrattle, and a good number of those have a deathrattle that can give a considerable advantage to your opponent, it seems like a ''Silence all your minions'' effect could be WAY better than it seems at first, in the right deck of course.
Testing will be required to know just how viable it is.
Agreed, I admitted it is "promising". 3/5 is not ridiculous, getting arounf the death rattle of Dancing Sword /Death Lord will be pretty good.
On July 22 2014 04:15 Loox wrote: Every single one of the 30 cards is un-craftable, correct?
Meaning we will get a full week to get used to the Arachnid Quarter cards before anyone gets the rest, right?
gold versions of the cards are craftable as far as I have heard, Iv'e heard different things regarding when they will be craftable though, some say immediately after launch, others say after the wing the cards are in are opened
On July 22 2014 04:15 Loox wrote: Every single one of the 30 cards is un-craftable, correct?
Meaning we will get a full week to get used to the Arachnid Quarter cards before anyone gets the rest, right?
gold versions of the cards are craftable as far as I have heard, Iv'e heard different things regarding when they will be craftable though, some say immediately after launch, others say after the wing the cards are in are opened
I can say with high confidence that gold versions of the cards are craftable after you beat the boss that unlocked the regular card for you, on heroic mode.
...Or supposedly they removed that requirement after saying it, so I'm not sure what to believe anymore. Sounds like heroic would be almost pointless if they did.
On July 22 2014 04:15 Loox wrote: Every single one of the 30 cards is un-craftable, correct?
Meaning we will get a full week to get used to the Arachnid Quarter cards before anyone gets the rest, right?
gold versions of the cards are craftable as far as I have heard, Iv'e heard different things regarding when they will be craftable though, some say immediately after launch, others say after the wing the cards are in are opened
I can say with high confidence that gold versions of the cards are craftable after you beat the boss that unlocked the regular card for you, on heroic mode.
The way to get goldens is craft them after you obtain the normal version.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Not sure if it is 100% instawin
In the current meta it would be an auto include with 2/6 stats. The card would ba good 5drop without the deathrattle. The huge tempo gain of playing it 2 turns faster and having an extra 5 drop in your 3 slots is so insane it's perfectly worth the deathrattle against midrange and more generally anything but handlock.
Seriously, no love for Nerub'ar Weblord? Such a powerful disrupter card and with four health for 2 mana is should stick around long enough to mess up your opponents plans.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Thats really not true though. So long as you don't take more than 2 cards to kill it, its even value. So, for example, any 3 drop+Fireball will kill it, at which point you get a free minion. If that 3 drop is a Harvest Golem or Scarlet Crusader, then congrats, you just 2 for 1'd the Priest.
And dropping this on turn 3 the best case scenario for this card--after turn 3 its value declines enormously. Stampeding Kodo or Black Knight used against this is a disaster.
As far as Priest goes, I'm not even convinced this is a better turn 3 play than Blademaster+Circle. That takes 2 cards, but this gives your opponent a free card, so the net card value is roughly the same, and Blademaster has better stats.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Not sure if it is 100% instawin
In the current meta it would be an auto include with 2/6 stats. The card would ba good 5drop without the deathrattle. The huge tempo gain of playing it 2 turns faster and having an extra 5 drop in your 3 slots is so insane it's perfectly worth the deathrattle against midrange and more generally anything but handlock.
Are we still talking about Deathlord? Basically, the Oasis Snapjaw for one less mana and a lot more risk attached to it?
On July 22 2014 04:34 Greendotz wrote: Seriously, no love for Nerub'ar Weblord? Such a powerful disrupter card and with four health for 2 mana is should stick around long enough to mess up your opponents plans.
Seems like a meta choice really. Its value is dependent on opponents running battlecry, and many decks don't. Really good against some classes like Pally (who tend to run aldor peacekeeper, argent protector and stempeding kodo), ok against handlock (delays twilight drake and earthen ring farseer), pretty lousy against stuff like Zoo or Freeze mage.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Not sure if it is 100% instawin
In the current meta it would be an auto include with 2/6 stats. The card would ba good 5drop without the deathrattle. The huge tempo gain of playing it 2 turns faster and having an extra 5 drop in your 3 slots is so insane it's perfectly worth the deathrattle against midrange and more generally anything but handlock.
Are we still talking about Deathlord? Basically, the Oasis Snapjaw for one less mana and a lot more risk attached to it?
lets be honest, 8 health for 3 mana is pretty silly. Plus you can't avoid it like the Snapjaw.
On July 22 2014 03:45 AssumedNewb wrote: Kel'Thuzad (8) Mana: 6/8: At the end of the turn, summon all friendly minions that died this turn. Eventullally an alternative to Ragnaros and Alextrasza. Basically game over if you have board control and are out of opponent burst. Not sure he is better than Rag, though, as he look like a win more 8cost card. 7/10
I wouldn't consider it a win more card, strictly speaking. It lets you close the gap in situations where you are behind on board control but still have a presence, by trading aggressively against the opponent and then returning your losses to the board at the end of the turn. If the board state is about even, the same scenario would usually put you massively ahead.
I'm not sure why everyone is goin on about Deathlord. He's a middle-grade taunt at best.
Unstable Ghoul looks very solid at countering the current crop of aggro decks. This is one of the most exciting cards in the set, imo. Also makes Goldshire Footman look even worse than it currently does.
This Deathlord can combo well with self silence, inner fire, dark cultist (for moar inner fire goodness), and of course the usual stuff like clerics and healing. Crazed Alchemist might also do some work. Sure, inner fire and alchemist aren't common now, but that's the fun of HS anyway, coming up with new stuff that's fun to play.
On July 22 2014 04:34 Greendotz wrote: Seriously, no love for Nerub'ar Weblord? Such a powerful disrupter card and with four health for 2 mana is should stick around long enough to mess up your opponents plans.
Seems like a meta choice really. Its value is dependent on opponents running battlecry, and many decks don't. Really good against some classes like Pally (who tend to run aldor peacekeeper, argent protector and stempeding kodo), ok against handlock (delays twilight drake and earthen ring farseer), pretty lousy against stuff like Zoo or Freeze mage.
Zoo? Abusive Sergeant, Arcane Golem, Dark Iron Dwarf, Defender of Argus, Doomguard, Shattered Sun Cleric, Earthen Ring Farseer, Elven Archer, Flame Imp? This card shits on zoo. Just look through the list to see how much potential this card has.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Thats really not true though. So long as you don't take more than 2 cards to kill it, its even value. So, for example, any 3 drop+Fireball will kill it, at which point you get a free minion. If that 3 drop is a Harvest Golem or Scarlet Crusader, then congrats, you just 2 for 1'd the Priest.
And dropping this on turn 3 the best case scenario for this card--after turn 3 its value declines enormously. Stampeding Kodo or Black Knight used against this is a disaster.
As far as Priest goes, I'm not even convinced this is a better turn 3 play than Blademaster+Circle. That takes 2 cards, but this gives your opponent a free card, so the net card value is roughly the same, and Blademaster has better stats.
Its unfair to call for the use of premium 4 mana removal as a advantage. It would mean you MUST get a 4 mana or more creature for this to be good for you. Even then, fireball is a premium removal that is generally considered more powerful than 4 mana minions as utility. This in reality will trade for like 3 thing if you are lucky because priest will heal it, in a lot of cases, where you don't have any good spell removal, this thing will just stay on the board indefinitely while the priest is able to keep playing creature.
Late game its value goes down significantly but if you can't deal with it on turn 3, you will just lose from board control perspective. Its still going to stop you from playing anything smaller than a yeti on turn 3.
On July 22 2014 04:42 HardlyNever wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is goin on about Deathlord. He's a middle-grade taunt at best.
For decks without the ability to get out massive taunts fast (meaning, every deck except ramp/taunt druid and handlock), Deathlord provides the ability to completely stabilize against any aggro deck much earlier than would otherwise be possible. That has big meta implications.
OTOH, I think people assuming that makes it broken are being shortsighted. Its a lousy card in control matchups--against stampeding kodo, black knight, any giant deck, etc. it is basically negative value. It'll be great for those times when all you're seeing on ladder is zoo and aggro, but when that isn't the case its not going to be a staple choice.
On July 22 2014 04:02 Came Norrection wrote: Deathlord is a stupid card. Priest puts it down turn 3 and wins the game. Cards like this just makes stuff broken.
Priest is getting way too much stuff, spectral knight is a hard counter to priest but with these new cards, its way too easy for priest to fight for board control early on and the opponent having now way to counter priest heals.
Shaman OP in new patch. Most cards are midrange forcused. Shamen has easy silence and hex. Shamen also are midranged in general.
I predicted a slower meta with the new cards. Most cards are fine but deathlord is just too much.
Deathlord is great. It finally gives the game something it has needed for a long, long time--a card that hardcounters aggro/zoo the way Black Knight counters taunt druid and handlock. Currently, it is extremely easy to put together a competitive aggro/zoo deck that stomps over almost everything except expensive control decks built specifically to counter them, which means that there are huge stretches of ladder where practically all you run into is Zoo. Death Lord gives every class a cheap and accessible anti-aggro counter, which is absolutely needed. At the same time, its very weak against Giant Decks and control in general, which means that just like Black Knight it represents a meta-driven tradeoff. Running into tons of aggro and zoo? Put this in the deck and enjoy your wins. But once the meta shifts or you hit a different stage on ladder, there's a good chance it just becomes a dead card and you'll need to swap it out (vs. Handlock, for example, this is an insanely bad card).
I do, however, agree that Priest is poised to become the best class in the game. Not so much because of Deathlord, and more because silence is gonna be super useful in Naxx, and Dark Cultist is the best new class card by far.
The card counters more than just agro. Any card that you just play and win is just dumb. There nothing you can do against it turn 3-4 and priest will heal it. All priests would need to do is mulligan for it and win every game they have it. Hard removal don't come until turn 4-5 and even then the card you get is random so unless you are playing nothing but late game, it will be something average like a 3-4 mana minion and that is just not enough tempo. I don't agree with cards that you play on turn 3 and just win games. What kind of game is it if all you are trying to do is to mulligan for 2/30 cards and instawin?
Thats really not true though. So long as you don't take more than 2 cards to kill it, its even value. So, for example, any 3 drop+Fireball will kill it, at which point you get a free minion. If that 3 drop is a Harvest Golem or Scarlet Crusader, then congrats, you just 2 for 1'd the Priest.
And dropping this on turn 3 the best case scenario for this card--after turn 3 its value declines enormously. Stampeding Kodo or Black Knight used against this is a disaster.
As far as Priest goes, I'm not even convinced this is a better turn 3 play than Blademaster+Circle. That takes 2 cards, but this gives your opponent a free card, so the net card value is roughly the same, and Blademaster has better stats.
Its unfair to call for the use of premium 4 mana removal as a advantage. It would mean you MUST get a 4 mana or more creature for this to be good for you. Even then, fireball is a premium removal that is generally considered more powerful than 4 mana minions as utility. This in reality will trade for like 3 thing if you are lucky because priest will heal it, in a lot of cases, where you don't have any good spell removal, this thing will just stay on the board indefinitely while the priest is able to keep playing creature.
Late game its value goes down significantly but if you can't deal with it on turn 3, you will just lose from board control perspective. Its still going to stop you from playing anything smaller than a yeti on turn 3.
I would feel totally fine dropping a Harvest Golem or Scarlet Crusader against this on turn 3. I wouldn't even really feel bad about dropping a 4/3, or a Frothing Berserker, or a Raging Worgen, or an Unbound Elemental if I had overload cards in hand, or a Feral Spirit...
Basically, there are a lot of 3 drops that this thing can't kill, and if you can combo any of them with halfway decent removal on turn 4 you're golen. Turn 3 Kirin Tor Mage, Turn 4 Frostbolt+Hero Power can absolutely get the job done, for example.
On July 22 2014 04:42 HardlyNever wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is goin on about Deathlord. He's a middle-grade taunt at best.
For decks without the ability to get out massive taunts fast (meaning, every deck except ramp/taunt druid and handlock), Deathlord provides the ability to completely stabilize against any aggro deck much earlier than would otherwise be possible. That has big meta implications.
OTOH, I think people assuming that makes it broken are being shortsighted. Its a lousy card in control matchups--against stampeding kodo, black knight, any giant deck, etc. it is basically negative value. It'll be great for those times when all you're seeing on ladder is zoo and aggro, but when that isn't the case its not going to be a staple choice.
I would not want to play in a meta where all the decks are control warrior, ramp druid and handlock.
With cards like spectral and loatheb i'm afraid control becomes shit :/. Also the those extra taunt cards counter face decks. Also all the tempo cards and cards that benefit from board control and buffs etc... Expecting nothing but midrange and mb zoo.
Control decks like Handlock, ramp druid and Giant Mage are as strong as ever. Stronger, really, since they can hardcounter aggro now. Control warrior should be fine as well.
What have really been nerfed are decks built purely around spells like Miracle Rogue. Miracle Rogue gets screwed really hard by cards like Loatheb and Spectral Knight.
But that strikes me as intentional on Blizzard's part--they want the game to be about fighting for board control, not playing 30 damage solitaire with a deck with like 25 spells+Leeroy in it. Control decks will absolutely still exist, but they will still need to play minions and not just rely purely on spells.
Similarly, I think Aggro decks will still have a place, but as a meta choice--whenever Giant decks become so dominant that Death Lord becomes a really bad choice and people start taking it out of their decks, you'll see Aggro make a comeback and do well until people are forced to make choices to counter it, at which point Giant decks will make a comeback and the cycle will continue.
Yeh of course miracle gets screwed over far more then warrior and handlock, but i don't agree the will remain as strong as before.
As handlock if u have giants or twilight drakes on the board u can use them to clear (though the drakes need some help sometimes in from of a soulfire), but you much rather would siphon soul the target and hit face. And incase u don't have a giant on board? Normally u delay wiht siphon or best case pull some hellfire molten (sunfury) soul fire combo. But now u still have a minion on bard that can help deal with the giant(s), or just mb kill u.
Warrior has ghorehowl of course, but if he doesn't draw it he's kinda screwed right? Cuz apart form the weapon control warrior only has executes and shield slams to deal with the larger 4-5-6 mana cost creatures before it puts out its big guys on a clear(er) board. (Though admittedly warrior faces the same difficulty with cairne and devine shield guys with the current card pool.) I suppose the versions with more midrange cards like yeti's or elites or wh will have less of a problem, but thats what i mean, this shit will make decks be more midrange. U need board control to deal with minions like those 2 5 drops, and a lot of other naxx cards favor ppl wiht board control or give good temp plays. So yeh thats why i think midrange got stronger.
Druid is fine ofc, ramp or midrange wh doesnt matter, he's the guy who will be innervating out these dudes and give me a headache. I guess it will make having board control even more important in druid mirrors, making it even more dependent on curving out well/getting wild growths. But the match up is all draw dependent alrdy, so /wh.
Call me crazy, but I think Mad Scientist is the strongest card here.
It is essentially a "tutor" (MtG slang) that puts a 1-3 mana card directly into play AND has a decent body, compared to Loot Hoarder / Novice Engineer. People are deceived by the word "random"... truth is, competitive decks can play no more that 2 or 3 different secrets, and we know (Ben Brode's tweet) that the Scientist can't get a secret that's already on the battlefield, so we have a bit of control over that. Like, essentially it means that's going to grab a Ice Block whenever needed. Not to mention it's +1 durability for Eaglehorn Bow for free.
On July 22 2014 05:04 Big G wrote: Call me crazy, but I think Mad Scientist is the strongest card here.
It is essentially a "tutor" (MtG slang) that puts a 1-3 mana card directly into play AND has a decent body, compared to Loot Hoarder / Novice Engineer. People are deceived by the word "random"... truth is, competitive decks can play no more that 2 or 3 different secrets, and we know (Ben Brode's tweet) that the Scientist can't get a secret that's already on the battlefield, so we have a bit of control over that. Like, essentially it means that's going to grab a Ice Block whenever needed. Not to mention it's +1 durability for Eaglehorn Bow for free.
I agree. Not only Ice Block would be great, but Mad Scientist + Mirror Entity would also be quite nice for the tempo play. And ofcourse it would fit right into some Midrange Hunter deck, along with the other new Beast cards.
Very excited about it all. Looks fantastic. I'm definitely gonna experiment a lot with Priest (like nearly everyone will), Hunter and Mage.
Edit: things I'm considering: some kind of Watcher Midrange Priest with Cabals, the 1 mana 2/3 and the Silence all your own minions guy. Some kind of tempo Hunter with Mad Scientist + Freezing Traps and Spiders and tempo Mage.
On July 22 2014 05:04 Big G wrote: Call me crazy, but I think Mad Scientist is the strongest card here.
It is essentially a "tutor" (MtG slang) that puts a 1-3 mana card directly into play AND has a decent body, compared to Loot Hoarder / Novice Engineer. People are deceived by the word "random"... truth is, competitive decks can play no more that 2 or 3 different secrets, and we know (Ben Brode's tweet) that the Scientist can't get a secret that's already on the battlefield, so we have a bit of control over that. Like, essentially it means that's going to grab a Ice Block whenever needed. Not to mention it's +1 durability for Eaglehorn Bow for free.
I don't know if it's the strongest card but it will definitely have a very strong impact on the way secret-classes play out. it's a strict upgrade for freeze mage and will help the other classes immensely.
On July 22 2014 05:04 Big G wrote: Call me crazy, but I think Mad Scientist is the strongest card here.
It is essentially a "tutor" (MtG slang) that puts a 1-3 mana card directly into play AND has a decent body, compared to Loot Hoarder / Novice Engineer. People are deceived by the word "random"... truth is, competitive decks can play no more that 2 or 3 different secrets, and we know (Ben Brode's tweet) that the Scientist can't get a secret that's already on the battlefield, so we have a bit of control over that. Like, essentially it means that's going to grab a Ice Block whenever needed. Not to mention it's +1 durability for Eaglehorn Bow for free.
The card has some potential but I'm really not sure which deck it will work best in. The problem with bow hunter is figuring out what to do when you don't draw bow. The deck is pretty solid already when you do. The problem with putting it in freeze mage is that while fetching the secret is important, it's not too useful a creature and will likely die for free since nothing else will soak the removal. It's also troublesome to end up your singleton vaporize since it has very specific uses. In paladin, you're only getting 1 mana cost secrets out of it anyway. Maybe some of them will be worth it but the opportunity cost is high.
My issue with this card is that it takes away from the fun aspect of the secrets: the mindgames and layering. There's no mindgames if it's random.
I really like all of the cards and what they'll bring to the table... except Death Lord. It just seems way too OP.
Why don't people run mindgames? Because what you pull from it, on average, sucks. So by that same logic, the minion summoned from the opponent's deck will probably not be a big deal, especially given that merely playing this card is pretty much going to guarantee you incredible board control and tempo. In priest, it may not ever die, as they can heal it and it'll be a long time before you can do 8 damage burst on it at 3 mana. More, if they pop a power world shield or health doubler on it.
This isn't also considering how the summoned monster won't get a battlecry, so you could potentially mess your opponent up on top of all this.
Yeah, it may counter aggro really well... But its cheap cost means that the aggro decks themselves can easily afford to run it. Basically, you have no reason not to run it, regardless of the deck you play. It's that good.
On July 22 2014 05:35 MCXD wrote: I really like all of the cards and what they'll bring to the table... except Death Lord. It just seems way too OP.
Why don't people run mindgames? Because what you pull from it, on average, sucks. So by that same logic, the minion summoned from the opponent's deck will probably not be a big deal, especially given that merely playing this card is pretty much going to guarantee you incredible board control and tempo. In priest, it may not ever die, as they can heal it and it'll be a long time before you can do 8 damage burst on it at 3 mana. More, if they pop a power world shield or health doubler on it.
Yeah, it may counter aggro. But it's cheap cost means that the aggro decks themselves can easily afford to run it. Basically, you have no reason not to run it. It's that good.
On July 22 2014 05:42 Release wrote: Kel'Thuzard + Harvest Golem/Savannah Highmane/Carine Bloodhoof = free minions?
yes. unless you fill up your board, in which case your minions probably cannot revive. also feugen/stallagg would fit into the same cathegory of minions that generate minions when they die, of course it would only work with whichever dies last.
On July 22 2014 05:57 HardlyNever wrote: Is anyone else counting 31 cards? I'm guessing Thadius counts as "token" and not a card (that you put in your deck)?
yes. thaddius is a token. thaddius is not a card you put in your decklist.
Mad Scientist seems like it'll be really solid in any deck that does run secrets. It'll directly pull Iceblock for freeze mage, effectively casting it for 2 mana while also possibly trading with something on the board (and unlike loot hoarder, doesn't die to hero powers). And in Face Hunter, it combos really well with Eaglehorn Bow. Play Mad Scientist on turn 2, turn 3 play your board, trade with scientist, profit.
I wonder: if Deathlord summons, say, an enemy players Ragnaros the Firelord, is that Ragnaros gone from their deck? or is it like Mindgames in that it just summons a copy of the summoned minion?
the phrasing of deathlord mentions no copy, so I assume the minion is gone from the deck, but I don't know.
also, if I, as a druid, has kelthuzad on the board and plays Force of Nature, what happens? does it matter if I trade the treants into things or not? and then, assuming that I end up getting treants out of it, what happens to the revived treants the turn after that?
So how do you get the cards? How many of them will you have after playing the 5 wings. Will you have to play the wings with every class? Will the cards be in the normal packs, will there be Naxx edition packs?
On July 22 2014 08:00 Musicus wrote: So how do you get the cards? How many of them will you have after playing the 5 wings. Will you have to play the wings with every class? Will the cards be in the normal packs, will there be Naxx edition packs?
This looks like so much fun and so refreshing. I haven't been playing so actively lately because all the same cards and decks have gotten pretty boring, but I have so many really fun ideas for decks. For example, turn 3 Deathlord, turn 4 Wailing Soul. Wailing Soul also completely counters Freeze Mage. Can't wait to try everything out!
On July 22 2014 08:00 Musicus wrote: So how do you get the cards? How many of them will you have after playing the 5 wings. Will you have to play the wings with every class? Will the cards be in the normal packs, will there be Naxx edition packs?
Kel'Thuzad seems pretty cool. Great synergy with Rebirth or Redemption. Image a scenario where you trade your Fire Elemental, play Kel'Thuzad, Rebirth him and have at the end of your turn 2x 6/5 and 2x 6/8 minions on the field Or can every minion only be summoned once?
I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
you have to set it up and you have to pay 10 mana and hope you don't get silenced. pretty big IFs
yeah if everyone gets a hard on about this stalag/fuegen combo, people will just start saving a silence for the second of the two. as multiple people have pointed out, the meta immediately following naxx release is likely going to include lots and lots of silence, in just about every deck, so it's not like you'll even have to go out of your way to put it in your deck just for these two cards.
i mean, it'll be really strong when it goes off... i just don't think it'll last terribly long in very many decks because of the conditionality of it.
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
Not only are they not bad cards they are the only individual 5 drops in the game that actually match the vanilla budget.
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
you have to set it up and you have to pay 10 mana and hope you don't get silenced. pretty big IFs
I'd play a 4-7 vanilla 5 drop with no effect any day. 7-4 isn't as good but it's still 11 points of stats and much better when predicting something like a giant.
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
you have to set it up and you have to pay 10 mana and hope you don't get silenced. pretty big IFs
I'd play a 4-7 vanilla 5 drop with no effect any day. 7-4 isn't as good but it's still 11 points of stats and much better when predicting something like a giant.
Not just silence though. As someone has already pointed out, it is possible to mind control the other player's 2nd legendary and summon Thaddius for themselves. I can see the potential for this to backfire lol.
Not to comment on any specific card cos it's just one more list to read and who's got the time - but I really like that the focus seems to be on providing tools to combat both rush decks and bursty combo decks. It definitely seems to favor midrange decks... but at the same time, I don't think it will kill the more extreme decks completely, the reason being that you cannot run all of these anti-X tech cards and expect to have a functioning, synergistic deck. And I'm glad it won't kill those decks. Miracle rogue was exciting before it became THE deck to play/beat. Those kinds of decks keep you honest.
I may also be biased because midrange is my most competent playstyle. Anyway, I'm extremely excited. These cards look amazing - few if any have an equivalent effect in the base set.
I'm sure new broken strategies will emerge out of this when the dust settles, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it eh?
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
you have to set it up and you have to pay 10 mana and hope you don't get silenced. pretty big IFs
I'd play a 4-7 vanilla 5 drop with no effect any day. 7-4 isn't as good but it's still 11 points of stats and much better when predicting something like a giant.
Not just silence though. As someone has already pointed out, it is possible to mind control the other player's 2nd legendary and summon Thaddius for themselves. I can see the potential for this to backfire lol.
How many heroes exactly can mind control anyway? >_>
On July 22 2014 10:13 lionspaw wrote: I didn't go through all the posts, but what people don't realize about Stalagg and Feugen is that you don't have to play both cards yourself!
For example, if your opponent plays Feugen, and you kill it, then you play Stalagg, then your opponent is in a really shitty situation, because if he kills it, you get Thaddius, but if he doesn't kill it, you get 7 power on the board.
I think it's really well designed.
Really well designed? Looks super overpowered to me, to be honest... They aren't even bad cards by themselves.
you have to set it up and you have to pay 10 mana and hope you don't get silenced. pretty big IFs
I'd play a 4-7 vanilla 5 drop with no effect any day. 7-4 isn't as good but it's still 11 points of stats and much better when predicting something like a giant.
Not just silence though. As someone has already pointed out, it is possible to mind control the other player's 2nd legendary and summon Thaddius for themselves. I can see the potential for this to backfire lol.
How many heroes exactly can mind control anyway? >_>
Technically, every Hero with Sylvanas xP. Unreliable yes, but it sure would be great when you pull it off. Time to bust out the old Warlock Sylvanas + Power Overwhelming/Void Terror combo.
Well, you can also mind control their Thaddius in return... "It can be mind controlled" is like the worst reason for why a card would be bad, and you can even silence the card if it does get mind controlled. It's like saying Tirion Fordring is a bad card because it can be mind controlled.
Probably, if you bounce the original. If the copy doesn't come with the card text I'm not sure, but if the copy DOES come with the card text it would have the potential to get really out of control so I'd be surprised if it does.
On July 22 2014 12:05 Shikyo wrote: Well, you can also mind control their Thaddius in return... "It can be mind controlled" is like the worst reason for why a card would be bad, and you can even silence the card if it does get mind controlled. It's like saying Tirion Fordring is a bad card because it can be mind controlled.
I never said it was bad, just that if you are using both of them then there are 2 targets for mind control (the 2nd legendary and Thaddius himself) which makes it more vulnerable. They're still scary as heck obviously but I'm not completely convinced they're OP for many reasons (not just mind control). I expect to see everyone running them for a while though, we'll see how it goes.
I predict classes with silences, or hard removals vs deathrattles / other strong effects (druid and especially shaman and priest) will see a huge increase in strength.
if i had to pick, shaman would take nr1. for the next few months. I can imagine a deck using ancient watchers, owls, earthshocks, hexxes, the new reincarnate, and some of the new cards to be quite effective
On July 22 2014 12:05 Shikyo wrote: Well, you can also mind control their Thaddius in return... "It can be mind controlled" is like the worst reason for why a card would be bad, and you can even silence the card if it does get mind controlled. It's like saying Tirion Fordring is a bad card because it can be mind controlled.
I never said it was bad, just that if you are using both of them then there are 2 targets for mind control (the 2nd legendary and Thaddius himself) which makes it more vulnerable. They're still scary as heck obviously but I'm not completely convinced they're OP for many reasons (not just mind control). I expect to see everyone running them for a while though, we'll see how it goes.
They are good even without the effect. They're the only 11 stat 5 drops in the game with no negative effects and an enormous potential one. Just drawing a silence is useful for a 11 stat 5 drop.
I cannot wait to play spectral knight with defender of argus against miracle rogue. Unsappable and near impossible to deal with without board presence.
Apparently, you can use Feugen and Stalagg to get two Thaddiuses. Their death is registered before the Deathrattles trigger, so if you kill off both with the same spell or series of events they'll both spawn a Thaddius.
Man, spectral knight seems really strong. Overall I like the cards and I'm extremely curious to see how everything plays out. Definitely going to be seeing a lot more silence being run, that's for sure.
On July 22 2014 09:39 JohnBird wrote: Kel'Thuzad seems pretty cool. Great synergy with Rebirth or Redemption. Image a scenario where you trade your Fire Elemental, play Kel'Thuzad, Rebirth him and have at the end of your turn 2x 6/5 and 2x 6/8 minions on the field Or can every minion only be summoned once?
If you suicide Fire Elemental A, then play Kel'Thuzad A, play Reincarnation on Kel'Thuzad to get KT B. (you currently have only a KT on the field). At the end of your turn, all minions with "at the end of the turn" trigger simultaneously, and resolve in the order in which they were played. So, KT B summons a Fire Elemental C and a KT C. KT C doesn't trigger as he has already missed his timing.
correct me if i am wrong but isnt mad scientist absurdly OP? He has 2/2 stats, cycle and search engine not to mention he instant plays that card for no cost...
Example: T2: Mad scientist search for Duplicate T3: Dead scientist (get 2 copies) T4: 2 mad scientist = 2 secrets + 2- 2/2 body Total: 6 mana -> 6/6 stats + 2 frree secrets at expense of 1 card... wtf
That spectral knight seems like it'll be the doom for miracle. I mean sure they can get past it with deadly poison + flurry, but often they only run one of those, so if you can protect your knight from azures and SI7, they should just lose the game.
They should get a keyword for "can't be targeted by spells and hero powers", they have 3 minions with that effect now and filling the entire card with text for something that straightforward is clunky. It could be called "Elusive" or something like that.
Circumstance: Presumably not. One would suspect that "end of turn" is separate from "during the turn", so that minions that die during end of turn aren't affected by this. That's how I would formulate it at least. And even if that's not the case, effects like this typically only trigger once, so even if it does return the treants, then they should survive, since their end of turn effect has already been triggered. They would then die again at the end of next turn, and be resurrected... Just speculating of course. In MtG, I believe the active player chooses the order in which simultaneous triggered effects from their cards resolve. In HS, of course, Blizz hides those rules behind the fancy graphics and doesn't tell us anything.
On July 22 2014 17:08 Circumstance wrote: Does Kel'Thuzad soft-lock the game with Force of Nature, or...?
Well no, I think KT can only proc once per turn, so he'll just revive the treants, and then they'll die at the end of the turn, since they were 'summoned last', and we now know that effects play in order.
On July 22 2014 16:58 Release wrote: Faceless Manipulator value just skyrocketed Also the brewmasters, BGH, Kodo, and TBK
Agreed, BGH had kind of fallen out of favour with all classes bar Druid. Now I'll definately be running it again, along with Faceless. While the new meta is all in the chaos stage I expect all Aggro decks to die (so many of these new cards are anti-aggro) and the ladder to be swarmed with Mid-range decks.
On July 22 2014 17:08 Circumstance wrote: Does Kel'Thuzad soft-lock the game with Force of Nature, or...?
Well no, I think KT can only proc once per turn, so he'll just revive the treants, and then they'll die at the end of the turn, since they were 'summoned last', and we now know that effects play in order.
Have they stated that the "summoned last" principle applies to all effect resolution conflicts? I only knew that they said that's how it's going to work for deathrattle effects.
At first I though people were been a little OTT with the whole "PRIEST IS OP NAO!!" but I have to admit, every time I try to come up with crazy ideas with all the cards the class that keeps popping up is Priest (Shaman does quite well too). Even arguably the worst card, Stoneskin Gargoyle has synergy with Northshire Cleric.
On July 22 2014 17:08 Circumstance wrote: Does Kel'Thuzad soft-lock the game with Force of Nature, or...?
Well no, I think KT can only proc once per turn, so he'll just revive the treants, and then they'll die at the end of the turn, since they were 'summoned last', and we now know that effects play in order.
Have they stated that the "summoned last" principle applies to all effect resolution conflicts? I only knew that they said that's how it's going to work for deathrattle effects.
I figured it was a baseline rule, not just pertaining to deathrattles. If not then, I have no idea. I can only guess at this point..
Best case is he re-summons the treants and they die at the end of your next turn, which would imply you have immortal treants until KT is dealt with.
On July 22 2014 16:11 hzflank wrote: Wailing Soul would be so good against freeze mages, but I am struggling to find enough other synergy to build a deck around it.
Ancient Watcher, plus maybe Deathlord... but still, it'll mainly depend on the metagame. 3/5 for 4 mana is reasonable, the hardest part will probably be to avoid playing minions with relevant (non-battlecry) abilities.
On July 22 2014 15:42 Hellonslaught wrote: correct me if i am wrong but isnt mad scientist absurdly OP? He has 2/2 stats, cycle and search engine not to mention he instant plays that card for no cost...
Example: T2: Mad scientist search for Duplicate T3: Dead scientist (get 2 copies) T4: 2 mad scientist = 2 secrets + 2- 2/2 body Total: 6 mana -> 6/6 stats + 2 frree secrets at expense of 1 card... wtf
Would be funny if there were like a "worthless secret" you may get if you have no more secrets in your deck, which reads like "When your hero is attacked, restore 0 life" but that messes with your opponent
On July 22 2014 15:42 Hellonslaught wrote: correct me if i am wrong but isnt mad scientist absurdly OP? He has 2/2 stats, cycle and search engine not to mention he instant plays that card for no cost...
Example: T2: Mad scientist search for Duplicate T3: Dead scientist (get 2 copies) T4: 2 mad scientist = 2 secrets + 2- 2/2 body Total: 6 mana -> 6/6 stats + 2 frree secrets at expense of 1 card... wtf
It's a deathrattle not a battlecry. Your example doesn't work. Still a very strong card though
On July 22 2014 19:40 Nekovivie wrote: Could maybe combo it with that Dancing Swords card, so your opponent doesn't get the draw (which is pretty significant)
Yeah but I don't think it's worth it with Dancing Swords, it's only 4/4 and may be killed before you have the chance to play Wailing Soul... so a standard 3 drop + a Yeti seems equal in strength and more reliable than those. I specifically said Ancient Watcher and Deathlord because you may want to play them anyway (depending on the meta ofc).
Some pretty strong cards among these. Zombie chow, like a flame imp, strong stats but offset by a lifechange. Giving life however sucks quite a bit for aggro though zoo could deal with it maybe. Looks quite decent as a 1-drop for more midrangy decks though as this dying against aggro usually does nothing. Maybe also a self silence (priest) deck spawns around stuff like this, ancient watcher, wailing soul, dancing swords etc.
Mad scientist, insane in hunter and mage. 2/2 for 2 and cast a free 2 or 3 mana spell when dying is great. Especially in facerush hunter this looks great as it's a fine creature that gives some damage when it dies, like a buffed leper gnome. This turn 2 into bow is also very sweet. The secret being random doesn't matter that much as you typically want a secret to be unknown to your opponent and it's not so hard to make a deck with enough secrets that are always fine. A singleton in mage as iceblock #3 is fine too.
Unstable ghoul, mini abomination that has applications in warrior i guess but not much else. 1 damage is too little for most decks to care about I think.
Haunted creeper, mini harvest golem with 3/4 total stats for 2 although very easy to ignore before dying. Still insane I think as separate bodies usually sucks against sweepers but these tend to come out after the sweeper. Quite sweet with knife juggler, undertaker and dire wolf.
nerub'ar weblord: too narrow hatecard I think. Not much decks with more than 4-6 battlecries. Azure drake, keeper, si agent, shattered sun etc. but typically just two of these in a deck, with less I think when naxxramas is out.
stoneskin gargoyle: garbage, will just die too easily
spectral knight; decent, could be playable depending on how strong the other 5 drops are but for now I think the others seem stronger, not considering the other 5 drops in naxxramas I think this is pretty sweet though and would just be that curve filler at 5 some decks would use.
deathlord: very interesting, seems terrible at first but there are actually few spells that can kill this without silencing it too and if your opponent plays weenies you are fine with them running 3 into it. Still unplayable just because this sucks so much against a deck with yeti's and the like but if the meta becomes very aggro with undertaker.dec curving out at 3-4 this could be a metagame (tournament) choice.
wailing soul: potential deck enabler but I kind of doubt it.
sludge belcher: cards like senjield are what you want sometimes and this seems to fill that spot at 5. 5 seems a spot with many good options coming out in naxramas though. Small deathrattle effects with decent vanilla stats are great though as they aren't as vulnerable to silence.
echoing ooze: not sure, does the copy trigger battlecries again as well so you potentially get a 1/2 at end of every turn? if so this is amazing. If not two 1/2's for 2 is alright, perhaps playable in decks that can benefit of multiple minions (direwolf, knife juggler that sort of thing) but I doubt it.
feugen/stalagg: this seems like a good combo. Two card combo's of which each is only played once have been played quite a bit in hearthstone with good success if both pieces where alright on there own, even when they aren't that much. Both of these have decent stats and especially feugen is just quite fine on it's own while getting both makes the second into some super Cairne. I think this duo will be a must in many decks like sylvanas was.
maexxna: meh pretty weak I think, just quite slow and I imagine it will be too easy oftne to just make this a 2 for 1 at best by clearing it with a spell after it attacked, especially with vulnerability to silence.
kel'thuzad: only shines in a niche condition, where you can trade off minions and cast this. that is too narrow as you need to get back too much on average for this to shine, maybe in druid which has more avenues to play this at the right time with innervate.
Overall naxramas: the class cards are subpar with the exception of the priest one but the neutral cards have some amazing ones. Especially undertaker with it's support cards seems overpowered and a core that many decks will have to adopt. Undertaker, haunted creeper, zombie chow OR leper gnome, harvest golem, stalag&feugen and some others seems like a strong core of solid cards all which happen to pump undertaker.
On July 22 2014 22:31 Markwerf wrote: echoing ooze: not sure, does the copy trigger battlecries again as well so you potentially get a 1/2 at end of every turn? if so this is amazing. If not two 1/2's for 2 is alright, perhaps playable in decks that can benefit of multiple minions (direwolf, knife juggler that sort of thing) but I doubt it.
should be pretty good in backspace rogue or midrange pala. ooze + coldblood turn 3 or ooze + blessing sounds damn scary
People said before that 30 cards isn't that big an expansion. But pretty much every Naxx card seems highly playable, and open up tonnes of new interactions. I think this is going to make the game more skill based and more fun, I'm super excited.
It just occured to me: The Nerubar Weblord will make Leeroy Jenkins Combos unplayable, especially sh!tty for Rogues and to some extent Handlock. Did I get this right or is there something I am missing?
On July 23 2014 00:18 BlacKcuD wrote: It just occured to me: The Nerubar Weblord will make Leeroy Jenkins Combos unplayable, especially sh!tty for Rogues and to some extent Handlock. Did I get this right or is there something I am missing?
Its right but it won't last long its only a 1/4, rogue can probably get rid of it and still combo leeroy if they have 10 mana.
On July 23 2014 00:18 BlacKcuD wrote: It just occured to me: The Nerubar Weblord will make Leeroy Jenkins Combos unplayable, especially sh!tty for Rogues and to some extent Handlock. Did I get this right or is there something I am missing?
Its right but it won't last long its only a 1/4, rogue can probably get rid of it and still combo leeroy if they have 10 mana.
This is true...but in addition to Weblord, Naxx is also giving us Loatheb (which basically shuts down the auctioneer for a turn while putting a big body in play) and Spectral Knight (which at 6 life and can't be targetted by spells is a nightmare to bust through for Miracle if you give it taunt). Between those 3 cards, I suspect Miracle Rogue is going to have a rough time of it.
I can really see hope for priests with all those new cards,
Deathlord
Chow Zombie
play zombie chow to trade the board until you can play Deathlord ;p
unstable goul
Maexena
I think I will try to build decks with this core and the new priest card.
Kel'Thuzad seems to have awesome utility, you can drop it and trade the board for free ! And seems like it's the case every turn until it dies since it's not even a battlecry
Not to mention ALL THOSE NEW JUICY TARGETS FOR CABAL SHADOW PRIEST
Deathlord can be stolen this way.
And all the downside deathrattles are a huge buff to shadow word: pain
And I see room for one mass dispell now (spectral night, althought it will stay a 4 health minion, we can then peel it and Holy Fire)
Didn't realise Maexxna was a beast. Time to dick around with Hunter. Also Rexxar now says "TO MY SIDE" when you play Animal Companion. Made me jump first time I heard it.
Echoing ooze isn't a fucking battlecry blizzard, you can't just have an effect like battlecry and then change what you want it to mean now.
If you shadowstep it and play it multiple times you don't get multiple oozes, how exactly is this a battlecry? Battlecries are meant to be effects that exist after something is played, if you wanted this to be a battlecry it should give you a copy of the minion regardless of if it died, you shadowstepped it or not.
A proper card text would be: "At the end of the first turn this card was played, create an exact copy of it" Because that's what it does, it has fuckall to do with a battlecry.
On July 23 2014 08:37 Unleashing wrote: Echoing ooze isn't a fucking battlecry blizzard, you can't just have an effect like battlecry and then change what you want it to mean now.
If you shadowstep it and play it multiple times you don't get multiple oozes, how exactly is this a battlecry? Battlecries are meant to be effects that exist after something is played, if you wanted this to be a battlecry it should give you a copy of the minion regardless of if it died, you shadowstepped it or not.
A proper card text would be: "At the end of the first turn this card was played, create an exact copy of it" Because that's what it does, it has fuckall to do with a battlecry.
Does battlecry not really mean "do this first turn card is played". Most are instant, this one is just saying do the action at the end of the turn. It's an affect that happens after the card is played on the first turn. You just have time to buff or change the minion before the actual effect happens.
On July 23 2014 08:37 Unleashing wrote: Echoing ooze isn't a fucking battlecry blizzard, you can't just have an effect like battlecry and then change what you want it to mean now.
If you shadowstep it and play it multiple times you don't get multiple oozes, how exactly is this a battlecry? Battlecries are meant to be effects that exist after something is played, if you wanted this to be a battlecry it should give you a copy of the minion regardless of if it died, you shadowstepped it or not.
A proper card text would be: "At the end of the first turn this card was played, create an exact copy of it" Because that's what it does, it has fuckall to do with a battlecry.
Does battlecry not really mean "do this first turn card is played". Most are instant, this one is just saying do the action at the end of the turn. It's an affect that happens after the card is played on the first turn. You just have time to buff or change the minion before the actual effect happens.
No, every single battlecry except this one is something that comes into effect AS you play it, even if your mob is destroyed as it is played by something like snipe or whatever their effects will still always come into play. This card however can not be shadowstepped for multiple clones, can not be sacrificed to do stuff with it.
It's just a incredibly poorly worded ability unless they suddenly want to change what battlecry means to just "stuff that happens on the first turn it's played" because that's not how the mechanic has worked so far and i see zero reason to suddenly change it.
This is just one step away from hearthstone being filled with ambiguous and shitty card texts where you're like "I'm not actually entirely sure how this works" just from the card text which is a really fucking shitty situation to be in.
On July 23 2014 08:37 Unleashing wrote: Echoing ooze isn't a fucking battlecry blizzard, you can't just have an effect like battlecry and then change what you want it to mean now.
If you shadowstep it and play it multiple times you don't get multiple oozes, how exactly is this a battlecry? Battlecries are meant to be effects that exist after something is played, if you wanted this to be a battlecry it should give you a copy of the minion regardless of if it died, you shadowstepped it or not.
A proper card text would be: "At the end of the first turn this card was played, create an exact copy of it" Because that's what it does, it has fuckall to do with a battlecry.
Does battlecry not really mean "do this first turn card is played". Most are instant, this one is just saying do the action at the end of the turn. It's an affect that happens after the card is played on the first turn. You just have time to buff or change the minion before the actual effect happens.
No, every single battlecry except this one is something that comes into effect AS you play it, even if your mob is destroyed as it is played by something like snipe or whatever their effects will still always come into play. This card however can not be shadowstepped for multiple clones, can not be sacrificed to do stuff with it.
It's just a incredibly poorly worded ability unless they suddenly want to change what battlecry means to just "stuff that happens on the first turn it's played" because that's not how the mechanic has worked so far and i see zero reason to suddenly change it.
This is just one step away from hearthstone being filled with ambiguous and shitty card texts where you're like "I'm not actually entirely sure how this works" just from the card text which is a really fucking shitty situation to be in.
Why are you so angry? The card text says exactly what will happen: "Summon an exact copy of this minion at the end of the turn." It's a new kind of mechanic, but it still fits into the category battlecry. A battlecry does something, when you play it from hand. The point is that the effect does not happen when it is put into play differently. Meaning: the effect happens only when played from hand and only in that turn. So it is neither poorly worded nor ambiguous. I think you are a bit overreacting here
it summons an exact copy at the end of the turn. if the minion is not in play at the end of the turn, an exact copy is nothing. this isn't really ambiguous or anything.
On July 23 2014 08:37 Unleashing wrote: Echoing ooze isn't a fucking battlecry blizzard, you can't just have an effect like battlecry and then change what you want it to mean now.
If you shadowstep it and play it multiple times you don't get multiple oozes, how exactly is this a battlecry? Battlecries are meant to be effects that exist after something is played, if you wanted this to be a battlecry it should give you a copy of the minion regardless of if it died, you shadowstepped it or not.
A proper card text would be: "At the end of the first turn this card was played, create an exact copy of it" Because that's what it does, it has fuckall to do with a battlecry.
Does battlecry not really mean "do this first turn card is played". Most are instant, this one is just saying do the action at the end of the turn. It's an affect that happens after the card is played on the first turn. You just have time to buff or change the minion before the actual effect happens.
No, every single battlecry except this one is something that comes into effect AS you play it, even if your mob is destroyed as it is played by something like snipe or whatever their effects will still always come into play. This card however can not be shadowstepped for multiple clones, can not be sacrificed to do stuff with it.
It's just a incredibly poorly worded ability unless they suddenly want to change what battlecry means to just "stuff that happens on the first turn it's played" because that's not how the mechanic has worked so far and i see zero reason to suddenly change it.
This is just one step away from hearthstone being filled with ambiguous and shitty card texts where you're like "I'm not actually entirely sure how this works" just from the card text which is a really fucking shitty situation to be in.
Battlecry is an effect that activates when the minion is played from hand.
The effect activating in this case is like the Warlock spell corruption, it doesn't resolve until a specificed point in time. That doesn't mean the effect isn't active though.
There's nothing really ambiguous or confusing about it at all.
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, 4/6 fearie dragon..., so many good minions. It's time to be creative again when I have all these cards.
