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On January 23 2014 00:36 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 18:25 Complete wrote:@the person above, I got to rank 10 with free cards + 2 harvest golems and like a scarlet crusader last season. You can do better!  This doesn't quite hold true. The deck I'm using right now was rank 5 or higher last season but tops out around rank 15 this season. If your deck was rank 10 last season it would pretty much be stuck at 20 this season. A general rule of thumb, from my experiences... Rank 20 is a freebie. Once you get there you can't really get any lower. Sure, it might still be hard to get there but eventually everyone will. This is where the problems begin. Rank 20: Majority of decks have at least one legendary and multiple epics/rares. Rank 17: Majority of decks have at least two legendaries and multiple epics/rares. Rank 15: Pretty much every deck at this point is fully fleshed out, with most having 3-5 legendaries. You also start running into people that have full gold decks quite frequently. Basically once you hit rank 15 everyone you play has either spent hundreds of dollars on cards or has grinded thousands of hours worth of games. The exception to this is people that use decks like the UTH Hunter deck or certain other aggro decks that don't require any good cards to function. Point is that you really can't compare this season to last season at all because the gap in cards is noticeably larger now for someone who is just starting (and will only continue to get worse). I can't imagine how all these open beta players feel when they can't even play matches against anything but bots because of how quickly they will just get destroyed by all of their opponents.
I'm sorry but this just isn't true. I'm rank 15 and don't run a single legendary and I don't think any epics in my decks, you can easily get that high just by using the value neutrals and whatever of the currently good classes you like most. Hell I just won 2 games at 15 where I was actually just going for a quest that said play 40 minions that cost 2 or less, so I made a deck that was literally just 1 and 2 drops. If that can win at 15 you definitely don't need legendaries.
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On January 23 2014 11:17 Khul Sadukar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:05 obesechicken13 wrote:On January 22 2014 21:35 Khul Sadukar wrote:
It's not just 1 or 2 people though. All these r20s so far have had killer decks that combo well with legendaries and epics. I'm going back to casual games for a while till I can afford something like that. Been playing all night and just running into this wall. They're smurfs grinding rank 20 for easy wins and gold. What's the point of grinding ranked as opposed to casual? I was stomping casual games with my buff centric Priest deck, which I then took to ranked and got smashed lol. Redone the whole deck since and doing much better now, but it seems faster to grind casual games then ranked.
I lost around 60 games in a row in casual last night and found it still had more difficult opponents compared to Rank 20. So unless someone works out how casual MMR works I still think Rank 20 leave and que is faster for grinding.
Also due to the nature of Rank 20 leave and que you get a lot more instant leavers which speeds it up a lot more where I encountered none while playing casual.
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Am i the only 1 whos encountered a bug with when you press the enemy turn button it bugs out and you're unable to click it?
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I don't think casual has any MMR. When I first started playing HS it seemed like a good idea to go into casuals. Second game I face a ragnaros. Even if that guy payed for packs there's no way he would have about same MMR as me.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On January 23 2014 16:13 Navillus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 00:36 Serejai wrote:On January 22 2014 18:25 Complete wrote:@the person above, I got to rank 10 with free cards + 2 harvest golems and like a scarlet crusader last season. You can do better! This doesn't quite hold true. The deck I'm using right now was rank 5 or higher last season but tops out around rank 15 this season. If your deck was rank 10 last season it would pretty much be stuck at 20 this season. A general rule of thumb, from my experiences... Rank 20 is a freebie. Once you get there you can't really get any lower. Sure, it might still be hard to get there but eventually everyone will. This is where the problems begin. Rank 20: Majority of decks have at least one legendary and multiple epics/rares. Rank 17: Majority of decks have at least two legendaries and multiple epics/rares. Rank 15: Pretty much every deck at this point is fully fleshed out, with most having 3-5 legendaries. You also start running into people that have full gold decks quite frequently. Basically once you hit rank 15 everyone you play has either spent hundreds of dollars on cards or has grinded thousands of hours worth of games. The exception to this is people that use decks like the UTH Hunter deck or certain other aggro decks that don't require any good cards to function. Point is that you really can't compare this season to last season at all because the gap in cards is noticeably larger now for someone who is just starting (and will only continue to get worse). I can't imagine how all these open beta players feel when they can't even play matches against anything but bots because of how quickly they will just get destroyed by all of their opponents. I'm sorry but this just isn't true. I'm rank 15 and don't run a single legendary and I don't think any epics in my decks, you can easily get that high just by using the value neutrals and whatever of the currently good classes you like most.
I agree with this.
I haven't played much ranked this season due to finally getting some good arena runs going, but I made it to 15 too without epics/legendaries in my deck reasonably easily this season, and I'd be very disappointed if I was unable to move up another couple once I put aside some time to play it. I'd be surprised if even half the decks at the rank are fully fleshed out too.
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Its not too hard to get rank 15ish, i'm at rank 14 and some of my decks like my rogue which i did the quest in ranked today have only like 2 rares rest commons. Just have to run alot of answers to big legendarily and not waste them or be afraid to take face damage to deal with them (deadly poison +minion trade for most 8/8)
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I don't think there are that many legendaries at 15. It curves up rapidly though, the number of legendaries you face.
At the start of the season rank 20 was harder than rank 15 now.
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So Ive got a question... I just have had access for 5 days or so and I dont plan to spend any money on this game. I really lucked out though, since I got Sylvanas in like my 3rd pack or smth. I wonder if I should keep her or disenchant (its 1600 dust atm since she got changed in patch). I mean I could probably build a solid hunter deck with that dust but I dont see myself getting nearly enough legs/dust to build a control oriented deck in which sylvanas would fit. So should I just dis her and turn her into a Leeroy and jump on the huntard rofltrain?
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On January 23 2014 23:49 diehilde wrote:
So Ive got a question... I just have had access for 5 days or so and I dont plan to spend any money on this game. I really lucked out though, since I got Sylvanas in like my 3rd pack or smth. I wonder if I should keep her or disenchant (its 1600 dust atm since she got changed in patch). I mean I could probably build a solid hunter deck with that dust but I dont see myself getting nearly enough legs/dust to build a control oriented deck in which sylvanas would fit. So should I just dis her and turn her into a Leeroy and jump on the huntard rofltrain?
Well, since you get a full refund, it is actually pretty reasonable to dis her. Even getting a bunch of rares you need to get started on a somewhat competitive deck instead of another legendary might be a good idea. The impact of 16 rares would be far more than the effect of 1 leeroy can prolly make even more than 1 reasonable deck with that. After that i would try to be patient and save up for legendaries. (and don't dis anything you get in general)
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On January 24 2014 00:19 Blix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 23:49 diehilde wrote:
So Ive got a question... I just have had access for 5 days or so and I dont plan to spend any money on this game. I really lucked out though, since I got Sylvanas in like my 3rd pack or smth. I wonder if I should keep her or disenchant (its 1600 dust atm since she got changed in patch). I mean I could probably build a solid hunter deck with that dust but I dont see myself getting nearly enough legs/dust to build a control oriented deck in which sylvanas would fit. So should I just dis her and turn her into a Leeroy and jump on the huntard rofltrain? Well, since you get a full refund, it is actually pretty reasonable to dis her. Even getting a bunch of rares you need to get started on a somewhat competitive deck instead of another legendary might be a good idea. The impact of 16 rares would be far more than the effect of 1 leeroy can prolly make even more than 1 reasonable deck with that. After that i would try to be patient and save up for legendaries. (and don't dis anything you get in general)
To get a good start into constructed, it might be good to disenchant the Sylvanas. But keep in mind that you will need to gather your Expert set of Cards anyways. 1600 Dust seems like a lot at the very beginning, but grinding packs and focusing on a good arena play should earn you the needed uncommons and rares for budget decks quickly.
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actually here is my thought process: getting the couple of rares i still need for huntard deck will be not much of a problem since it will only be like 400-500 dust. And I think Leeroy is extremely strong in that deck. I wanna focus on playing arena and actually dont care about ranked, its all about getting as much gold as possible in the shortest amount of time possible out of constructed. So basically I have this (somewhat evil) plan: Build a very strong and fast huntard deck (keeps game times at minimum) and just play casual play mode. Every couple wins, just sandbag (immediately concede) like 5 games in a row to artificially keep my MMR in play mode as low as possible so I actually play weak decks (keeps win rate at maximum). I actually dont have that much time on my hands so I wanna min/max the time/gold spent on constructed and this plan should be optimal for that, shouldnt it?
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I've said this before, but the biggest problem with the game is still that you can game losses.
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On January 24 2014 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:
I've said this before, but the biggest problem with the game is still that you can game losses. The problem isn't the behavior exposing the underlying flaw, but the actual flaw itself. Blizz has yet to make constructed meaningful or worthwhile, and people recognize it and are responding as such.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 23 2014 23:49 diehilde wrote:
So Ive got a question... I just have had access for 5 days or so and I dont plan to spend any money on this game. I really lucked out though, since I got Sylvanas in like my 3rd pack or smth. I wonder if I should keep her or disenchant (its 1600 dust atm since she got changed in patch). I mean I could probably build a solid hunter deck with that dust but I dont see myself getting nearly enough legs/dust to build a control oriented deck in which sylvanas would fit. So should I just dis her and turn her into a Leeroy and jump on the huntard rofltrain?
I would dust her because there's no reason not to if you can for full value, but I wouldn't jump the gun on making a deck.
You can rank up in constructed for a while playing just the basic cards. By the time you hit the "pay-wall" where most people have good cards and legendaries, you should be familiar enough with the game to be able to consistently get your gold's worth in Arena. At that point, that's what you should be doing to earn more cards and improve your technical play until you can go infinite. Drop back to Constructed if you run out of gold, but ideally you shouldn't let that happen too often.
Personally, I feel like if you can't go infinite in arena, your basic technical play isn't good enough for advancing beyond the "pay-wall" to be worth it.
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On January 24 2014 01:05 diehilde wrote:
Every couple wins, just sandbag (immediately concede) like 5 games in a row to artificially keep my MMR in play mode as low as possible so I actually play weak decks (keeps win rate at maximum). I actually dont have that much time on my hands so I wanna min/max the time/gold spent on constructed and this plan should be optimal for that, shouldnt it?
I've tested this ALOT. Rank 20 is actually much better for some bizarre reason but it may have something to do with my 940 wins in ranked play or how the MMR works. Either way after 60 straight losses I still saw people using Tinkmaster / Black Knight on my big minions in casual play.
On January 24 2014 01:32 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:
I've said this before, but the biggest problem with the game is still that you can game losses. The problem isn't the behavior exposing the underlying flaw, but the actual flaw itself. Blizz has yet to make constructed meaningful or worthwhile, and people recognize it and are responding as such.
I think the best way to deal with this would to reward people for ranking up for the first time each season / leveling up (would need to remove the level 60 cap though).
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On January 24 2014 01:59 Drazerk wrote:
I think the best way to deal with this would to reward people for ranking up for the first time each season / leveling up (would need to remove the level 60 cap though).
I think Blizz is intentionally trying to avoid rewarding ranks, because since your ability to rank up is at least partially determined by the quality of your decks, it could create at least the image of "the rich get richer/poor get poorer" when you think about how on average, people who already have cards will rank up faster/earn more cards faster.
Level up rewards make more sense.
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On January 24 2014 02:03 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 01:59 Drazerk wrote:
I think the best way to deal with this would to reward people for ranking up for the first time each season / leveling up (would need to remove the level 60 cap though). I think Blizz is intentionally trying to avoid rewarding ranks, because since your ability to rank up is at least partially determined by the quality of your decks, it could create at least the image of "the rich get richer/poor get poorer" when you think about how on average, people who already have cards will rank up faster/earn more cards faster. Level up rewards make more sense.
Level up reward would also remove the rush deck culture since you get more experience for winning later in the game rather than turn 3.
Either way Blizzard really need to do something before beta ends or rank 20 will simply be people trading concedes rather than actually playing (Which is already starting to happen)
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Once you get to legend rank, is it possible to drop out like from normal league?
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On January 24 2014 02:07 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 02:03 TheYango wrote:On January 24 2014 01:59 Drazerk wrote:
I think the best way to deal with this would to reward people for ranking up for the first time each season / leveling up (would need to remove the level 60 cap though). I think Blizz is intentionally trying to avoid rewarding ranks, because since your ability to rank up is at least partially determined by the quality of your decks, it could create at least the image of "the rich get richer/poor get poorer" when you think about how on average, people who already have cards will rank up faster/earn more cards faster. Level up rewards make more sense. Level up reward would also remove the rush deck culture since you get more experience for winning later in the game rather than turn 3. Either way Blizzard really need to do something before beta ends or rank 20 will simply be people trading concedes rather than actually playing (Which is already starting to happen)
Send people who constantly abandon games to low priority where you can't earn exp or count towards your 10 gold per three wins.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On January 24 2014 03:38 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 02:07 Drazerk wrote:On January 24 2014 02:03 TheYango wrote:On January 24 2014 01:59 Drazerk wrote:
I think the best way to deal with this would to reward people for ranking up for the first time each season / leveling up (would need to remove the level 60 cap though). I think Blizz is intentionally trying to avoid rewarding ranks, because since your ability to rank up is at least partially determined by the quality of your decks, it could create at least the image of "the rich get richer/poor get poorer" when you think about how on average, people who already have cards will rank up faster/earn more cards faster. Level up rewards make more sense. Level up reward would also remove the rush deck culture since you get more experience for winning later in the game rather than turn 3. Either way Blizzard really need to do something before beta ends or rank 20 will simply be people trading concedes rather than actually playing (Which is already starting to happen) Send people who constantly abandon games to low priority where you can't earn exp or count towards your 10 gold per three wins.
How do you even police that though?
All that will change is that instead of pressing concede I'll go afk and multistack or play Dota while i lose games. And there are legitimate concedes on turn 2 as well. When do you cut off the low priority?
No matter what system you put in people will find a way around it until you give them an incentive not to.
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EPT
