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On February 03 2014 06:33 Malphite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 03:27 Infundibulum wrote:Trying out some shaman - didn't want to play Mage and other choice was 'Lock, which if i had to guess Lock prob sucks after blood imp got nerfed. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EGvLF50.png) Notably, no Hex, Earth ele, or Lightning Storm. I do think the deck is solid esp mid game. Kind of sucks to play shaman without hex though... edit: 4-3, got wrecked by 2 pallys with Conc+Equality blowouts and then rogue with double argent commander. maybe i'm just bad maybe no hexes really is a huge handicap this deck looks average or below average. Nothing scares me if i was playing against you. the 2 fire ele's are great... but you need like 4 or 5 to get 12. Shaman is average tier so you need good cards. no earth ele's
Explain why it looks below average because there is nothing average about the cards isolated values nor the mana curve.
1. He has all good early game removals
2. Except for kobold, he has GREAT 2 drops
3. Except for raid leader there is nothing wrong with the other 3 drops. They are top tier I would even say looking at all various drafting lists.
4. Except for silvermoon guardian nothing wrong with the 4 drops.
5. His 5, 6 and 7 drops are all perfectly fine.
He is missing hex and lightning storm.He could have made use of a card draw or two.
But that deck is not below average or I am getting the shittiest draft ever.
I feel a lot of people in this thread are making comments about decks when they know how the poster has performed. Would love a poll on each poster and afterwards tell us how it went.
If you have a way of valuing a deck before it's played then say so. But right now it's like:
"Hey I went 7-3"
and people answer
"wow, that is a good deck"
or
"Hey I drafted this and only went 3-3"
"Well, that deck is below average"
which isn't very analytical at all. At least tell us how you value the deck on a scale and tell us what would make the deck jump up a notch on the scale.
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Latest arena another mage which went 7-3. So far my past 5 arena runs were 7+ wins (3 of them were mages so think what you like  ) which is a huge deal to me for someone not coming from a MtG background or any other card game. I feel like I've definitely improved (my statistics of the past 2 weeks show this as well). There is the occasional bad drafts + bad plays combo which makes me go 1-3 wins but it is occurring less than usual.
Got enough dust + golden cards to DE for 3 legendaries but I've decided not to DE them until they're full value which may take a while (I don't play constructed that much anyways).
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2014 23:04 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 06:33 Malphite wrote:On February 03 2014 03:27 Infundibulum wrote:Trying out some shaman - didn't want to play Mage and other choice was 'Lock, which if i had to guess Lock prob sucks after blood imp got nerfed. Notably, no Hex, Earth ele, or Lightning Storm. I do think the deck is solid esp mid game. Kind of sucks to play shaman without hex though... edit: 4-3, got wrecked by 2 pallys with Conc+Equality blowouts and then rogue with double argent commander. maybe i'm just bad maybe no hexes really is a huge handicap this deck looks average or below average. Nothing scares me if i was playing against you. the 2 fire ele's are great... but you need like 4 or 5 to get 12. Shaman is average tier so you need good cards. no earth ele's Explain why it looks below average because there is nothing average about the cards isolated values nor the mana curve. 1. He has all good early game removals 2. Except for kobold, he has GREAT 2 drops 3. Except for raid leader there is nothing wrong with the other 3 drops. They are top tier I would even say looking at all various drafting lists. 4. Except for silvermoon guardian nothing wrong with the 4 drops. 5. His 5, 6 and 7 drops are all perfectly fine. He is missing hex and lightning storm.He could have made use of a card draw or two. But that deck is not below average or I am getting the shittiest draft ever. I feel a lot of people in this thread are making comments about decks when they know how the poster has performed. Would love a poll on each poster and afterwards tell us how it went. If you have a way of valuing a deck before it's played then say so. But right now it's like: "Hey I went 7-3" and people answer "wow, that is a good deck" or "Hey I drafted this and only went 3-3" "Well, that deck is below average" which isn't very analytical at all. At least tell us how you value the deck on a scale and tell us what would make the deck jump up a notch on the scale.
This is exactly what i thought. Rating a deck after you know the result is just based on the result and not very objective. I am very bad at evaluating my deck before i start. Usually i think i got a really nice draft and i end up with 3-6 wins and other time i draft a shitty deck and i manage to do 7-8 wins. Yesterday i drafted an ok-ish deck with mage and to my surprise i went 12-2 with it. I guess Gadzetan Auctioneer + Archmage Antonidas + 2 x Mirror Image and 2 x sorcerer's apprentice was OP.
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On February 03 2014 23:26 Ricjames wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2014 23:04 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 06:33 Malphite wrote:On February 03 2014 03:27 Infundibulum wrote:Trying out some shaman - didn't want to play Mage and other choice was 'Lock, which if i had to guess Lock prob sucks after blood imp got nerfed. Notably, no Hex, Earth ele, or Lightning Storm. I do think the deck is solid esp mid game. Kind of sucks to play shaman without hex though... edit: 4-3, got wrecked by 2 pallys with Conc+Equality blowouts and then rogue with double argent commander. maybe i'm just bad maybe no hexes really is a huge handicap this deck looks average or below average. Nothing scares me if i was playing against you. the 2 fire ele's are great... but you need like 4 or 5 to get 12. Shaman is average tier so you need good cards. no earth ele's Explain why it looks below average because there is nothing average about the cards isolated values nor the mana curve. 1. He has all good early game removals 2. Except for kobold, he has GREAT 2 drops 3. Except for raid leader there is nothing wrong with the other 3 drops. They are top tier I would even say looking at all various drafting lists. 4. Except for silvermoon guardian nothing wrong with the 4 drops. 5. His 5, 6 and 7 drops are all perfectly fine. He is missing hex and lightning storm.He could have made use of a card draw or two. But that deck is not below average or I am getting the shittiest draft ever. I feel a lot of people in this thread are making comments about decks when they know how the poster has performed. Would love a poll on each poster and afterwards tell us how it went. If you have a way of valuing a deck before it's played then say so. But right now it's like: "Hey I went 7-3" and people answer "wow, that is a good deck" or "Hey I drafted this and only went 3-3" "Well, that deck is below average" which isn't very analytical at all. At least tell us how you value the deck on a scale and tell us what would make the deck jump up a notch on the scale. This is exactly what i thought. Rating a deck after you know the result is just based on the result and not very objective. I am very bad at evaluating my deck before i start. Usually i think i got a really nice draft and i end up with 3-6 wins and other time i draft a shitty deck and i manage to do 7-8 wins. Yesterday i drafted an ok-ish deck with mage and to my surprise i went 12-2 with it. I guess Gadzetan Auctioneer + Archmage Antonidas + 2 x Mirror Image and 2 x sorcerer's apprentice was OP.
This is what I like about Trumps stream. Not only does he evaluate his picks out loud as he chooses, when the deck is built he also gives his expert opinion about how many wins he feels it can make, and is usually bang on the money give or take one win.
It's helped me to build my arena decks a bit better.
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On February 03 2014 19:39 gobbledydook wrote:
This warrior draft I wanted to draft Cult Master but misclicked and drafted the Young Dragonhawk next to it.
What should I do with it :/
You just have to cross your fingers and pray that you never ever draw it, lol. Click more carefully! :D
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On February 03 2014 19:29 JShark wrote:I get the 100 gold quest AND draft this monster deck: + Show Spoiler +
That's a good deck overall, but the Shield Slam sticks out like a sore thumb to me, because it exposes a possible mistake in your drafting technique. Why did you draft it? It's a very poor card without Shield Block (and possibly Armorsmith), because without those cards your armor is <=2 in most cases. This means you're spending a card and 1 mana (or 3 mana if you must hero ability too) to do 2 damage.
Don't draft for the synergy you hope for, but draft for the synergy you have.
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On February 03 2014 23:04 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 06:33 Malphite wrote:On February 03 2014 03:27 Infundibulum wrote:Trying out some shaman - didn't want to play Mage and other choice was 'Lock, which if i had to guess Lock prob sucks after blood imp got nerfed. Notably, no Hex, Earth ele, or Lightning Storm. I do think the deck is solid esp mid game. Kind of sucks to play shaman without hex though... edit: 4-3, got wrecked by 2 pallys with Conc+Equality blowouts and then rogue with double argent commander. maybe i'm just bad maybe no hexes really is a huge handicap this deck looks average or below average. Nothing scares me if i was playing against you. the 2 fire ele's are great... but you need like 4 or 5 to get 12. Shaman is average tier so you need good cards. no earth ele's Explain why it looks below average because there is nothing average about the cards isolated values nor the mana curve. 1. He has all good early game removals 2. Except for kobold, he has GREAT 2 drops 3. Except for raid leader there is nothing wrong with the other 3 drops. They are top tier I would even say looking at all various drafting lists. 4. Except for silvermoon guardian nothing wrong with the 4 drops. 5. His 5, 6 and 7 drops are all perfectly fine. He is missing hex and lightning storm.He could have made use of a card draw or two. But that deck is not below average or I am getting the shittiest draft ever. I feel a lot of people in this thread are making comments about decks when they know how the poster has performed. Would love a poll on each poster and afterwards tell us how it went. If you have a way of valuing a deck before it's played then say so. But right now it's like: "Hey I went 7-3" and people answer "wow, that is a good deck" or "Hey I drafted this and only went 3-3" "Well, that deck is below average" which isn't very analytical at all. At least tell us how you value the deck on a scale and tell us what would make the deck jump up a notch on the scale.
He doesn't have a good early game with this deck. He has great early game removal but his early game is his biggest weakness. He needs to be quite lucky with draws (since he doesn't have many 2-3 drops that can be played without board presence) and not get overloaded first few turns. He has about half his low drops (2/3 drops) as support. And with overload cards it requires you to have more than average amount of low drops as a Shaman player which he doesn't. So this draft makes it harder for him to establish board presence and have board control with this deck early game.
This deck requires him to go second so that he has a higher chance of playing a minion first so that he can buff them with support cards and so that he can play more cards. If he were first he'd have a much harder time and it would not surprise me if the games went a little bit like I described above.
The hex isn't that big of a deal unless you're at 10+ wins when facing the monster drafts. The lightning storm is definitely a big miss here in case he needs to swing the tempo back in his favour but still manageable early in the arena run.
I would still rate it as average imo. The lack of low drop minions is a big weakness in this draft. As a Shaman you want lots of low drops if you have a decent amount of overload cards. The guy you quoted is right that it is average but not so much in the sense of the card values like you pointed out but rather the synergy of the cards together which makes it an average deck. 6-3 would've been more normal to me.
This is more of a case of picking 30 good value cards rather than 30 good cards that synergize well together.
The 4-3 is still a bit surprising but that could be possible that he misplayed early game which like I pointed out earlier is the drafts biggest weakness.
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On February 04 2014 00:54 shannn wrote:
This is more of a case of picking 30 good value cards rather than 30 good cards that synergize well together.
That's more or less the point of arena though, to go for the top value cards over the combo and basic synergies of each class... As a Hunter, how many times do would you go for a beast deck in arenas when you've been offered a Croc and a Grizzly in your first 10 cards? At this point you just drop the beast thing and go for all around solid creatures.
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On February 04 2014 01:13 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 00:54 shannn wrote:
This is more of a case of picking 30 good value cards rather than 30 good cards that synergize well together.
That's more or less the point of arena though, to go for the top value cards over the combo and basic synergies of each class... As a Hunter, how many times do would you go for a beast deck in arenas when you've been offered a Croc and a Grizzly in your first 10 cards? At this point you just drop the beast thing and go for all around solid creatures.
You're definitely right but my point was that the draft was going too far into picking the top value cards instead of picking to compliment his draft.
There has to be a mix of both and not either (maybe I didn't made it clear enough, sorry for that).
There has to be a point when you start picking the right cards to synergize and for mana curve purposes instead of the best value card every time which to me looked like that. He also might've been unlucky with the 2 or 3 drops in his drafting choices (we don't know) but my point still stands.
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I think this is the best deck i had in Arena Sylvanas + Ragnaros ^^
I would be mad if i cant hit 12x
+ Show Spoiler +
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Thanks for the analysis. I hadn't thought about valuing lower drops more heavily given the amount of overload.
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Seeing as one of the previous posters mentioned to analyze your own drafts and guess what amount of wins you'll go I'll post mine here and analyse it before I continue to play. I've already played 3 games (and currently 3-0) so it might influence my opinion a bit and of others.
The paladin draft.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HQZvGdO.jpg)
I lack a bit of premium 2's so I need some luck there with drafting (I didn't get any 2's after my 20th pick) so I had no choice but to pick 1's considering I had argent protectors for the early game. So I might have some trouble early game.
I don't have any truesilver champion in case if I'm behind to swing it back in my favour so I basically need to be the beatdown all the time for this to happen although the consecration can help with that a bit.
I lack good 4's to drop on turn 4. Only play I have is a Gnomish Inventor with no board presence which can happen against board control players which further reinforces my opinion of being the beatdown all the time and making sure I don't get behind and/or even (which will be difficult against control players).
My late game is ok, not the greatest but it seems I will definitely need to play aggressively early game so that I can snowball it quickly into a fast win. Any sweepers from my opponents will be devastating as I won't have a good response to that.
Seeing all this, this is an aggro-control deck and I need to be the one setting the pace or else I'll lose badly which will be difficult if I play against mages.
AP will play an important role and will dictate how the game will go if I have it within my starting hand / first 2 draws.
I've played 3 games and basically won 2 games within 6 rounds each and the first one within 10 rounds (could've won in 7 if I didn't have a huge misplay at turn 7).
Cards which aren't good for the synergy of this deck is probably the hammer of wrath only.
The rest has some synergy for this deck.
Some analysis from other people won't hurt ^^
Update:
Prediction: 7+ wins if I don't face many control players else I'd say 6 most likely.
Update:
Right when I play again I run into a heavy druid control player with about 10 taunts in his deck.
I lost in the last 4 cards. I didn't have a good start as well so I was almost always behind but the late game druid was just better with ancient of war and 3 ironbarks and 4 mark of the wild I think on beefy minions like Chillwind Yeti.
Update:
Lost to a freeze mage like I predicted that it'll be hard. I was frozen whole time that I didn't stand a chance.
Then won against another mage but this mage didn't had any freezes or any sweepers other than 1 frost nova so I was able to close the game within 7 turns.
Currently 5-2.
Update:
Lost to a paladin with many truesilver champions and Blessings of Kings with another slow starting hand.
So I ended up 5-3. It was in my prediction this would happen. I think if I had a Truesilver champion I could've turn the tide in two of my losses.
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On February 04 2014 00:37 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 19:39 gobbledydook wrote:
This warrior draft I wanted to draft Cult Master but misclicked and drafted the Young Dragonhawk next to it.
What should I do with it :/ You just have to cross your fingers and pray that you never ever draw it, lol. Click more carefully! :D
9-2 atm...
Young Dragonhawk = lucky charm
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Today I drafted an extremely aggro deck. It did okay. 6-3
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5N5yjb9.png)
My losses were basically the first one i had terrible draw (somehow) the second one the paladin drew a sufficient number of consecrations and the third one the warlock decided it'd be a good idea to hit my face when I had a trap up (he had 2 minions in explosive range) instead of trading with my minions first. I'm 99% certain it was the wrong play from him. It was misdirection, and he hit my minion instead of one of his or his face.
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Just had my best arena run so far. Went 8-3. Best before was 6-3. Picked paladin and this was the draft.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/88xQddo.jpg)
I'm not good at evaluating decks but I think it was pretty good although it's missing some card like: Consecration, Equality and Guardian of Kings.
It went best the times I went second and started with, or pulled, Argent Protectors and another 2 mana card. I coined out a 2 drop and then shielded it with Argent Protector and then Truesilver Champion too keep as many minions alive as possible. I ended up with a 8/8 or 9/9 Frostwolf Warlord more than a few times.
Got 185 gold, a golden Power of the Wild and this pack.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RKa9w7k.jpg)
Deathwing !!!
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On February 04 2014 06:17 thompzn wrote:
Just had my best arena run so far. Went 8-3. Best before was 6-3. Picked paladin and this was the draft.
I'm not good at evaluating decks but I think it was pretty good although it's missing some card like: Consecration, Equality and Guardian of Kings.
It went best the times I went second and started with, or pulled, Argent Protectors and another 2 mana card. I coined out a 2 drop and then shielded it with Argent Protector and then Truesilver Champion too keep as many minions alive as possible. I ended up with a 8/8 or 9/9 Frostwolf Warlord more than a few times.
Got 185 gold, a golden Power of the Wild and this pack.
Deathwing !!!
Hand of Protection, Redemption, Humility, Holy Light, and Dread Corsair appear to be suspect picks. If you refer to a drafting list you'll likely improve your results.
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Sigh, just picked Paladin and I got no consecrate, truesilver champion, or equality. I have literally no aoe or direct removal. I almost wanna just retire it now and save myself the 0-3....
sigh 1-3. last game played a warlock who got 2 fking molten giants out for 0 mana when he had 5 health left. My deck sucks so much have nothing to do damage other than minions.
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On February 04 2014 06:42 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 06:17 thompzn wrote:
Just had my best arena run so far. Went 8-3. Best before was 6-3. Picked paladin and this was the draft.
I'm not good at evaluating decks but I think it was pretty good although it's missing some card like: Consecration, Equality and Guardian of Kings.
It went best the times I went second and started with, or pulled, Argent Protectors and another 2 mana card. I coined out a 2 drop and then shielded it with Argent Protector and then Truesilver Champion too keep as many minions alive as possible. I ended up with a 8/8 or 9/9 Frostwolf Warlord more than a few times.
Got 185 gold, a golden Power of the Wild and this pack.
Deathwing !!!
Hand of Protection, Redemption, Humility, Holy Light, and Dread Corsair appear to be suspect picks. If you refer to a drafting list you'll likely improve your results.
I'm sure my picks can be improved some. In the case of Dread Corsair though I'm sure I made the right pick considering that at that point I had 3 Truesilver Champions and that the other cards weren't good. I also had good results with Humility + Stampeding Kodo to take down huge targets such as the 8/8 druid taunt. Also humility + Crazed Alchemist and kill with a 1/1 minion, which I usually had plenty of thanks to Imp Master and paladin ability.
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New arena draft.
This time I went mage (I'm not ashamed lol).
The draft:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/29C7gEy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TTJOpqC.jpg)
2 Frostbolts and 2 polymorphs, 1 water elemental and 2 arcane intellect as class cards with no fireballs and no blizzard/flamestrike.
1 Legendary Ysera as well.
My analysis is that I'll have it very tough against aggro decks and vs control decks I should be fine.
I got 5 premium 2 drops and 6 premium 3 drops so I have more than plenty to play on the first 3 turns with/without coin so early game shouldn't be that difficult.
My mid game and late game seem solid as well seeing I have plenty to play on every turn so I'm mana efficient with my cards and can keep my tempo up.
Only downside is that I don't have any burn and/or sweepers to go against any aggressive opening whereas I'll have an easier time against control decks it seems.
My predictions is probably 6-7 wins and hoping not to play against aggro decks too much. Seeing as last time I was playing against control decks most of the time with a very aggressive deck I think I can go 7 wins with this deck. It's not an insane draft but rather a fine deck for 7 wins I think.
Thoughts anyone? Maybe I should save my arena drafts as well?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VYgkqBt.jpg?1)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4xaAStY.jpg?2)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S01HNph.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Tb0h3ie.jpg)
