EPTHealthcare Reform in the US - Page 49
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bdams19
United States1316 Posts
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StarsPride
United States364 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:59 bdams19 wrote: why dont we just focus on getting people jobs, so that way they can afford health insurance This is infact a great idea. unfortunately the government is inclined to believe that it can make the best decisions for everyone because people cant be trusted with making there own decisions because they will always choose the bad. If there were enough jobs for everyone not as many people would rely on the government. and thats something they wont let happen | ||
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:07 StarsPride wrote: This is infact a great idea. unfortunately the government is inclined to believe that it can make the best decisions for everyone because people cant be trusted with making there own decisions because they will always choose the bad. If there were enough jobs for everyone not as many people would rely on the government. and thats something they wont let happen YES! | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
 + Show Spoiler + lolol fueling the fire, don't mind me i don't know shit about politics! im glad you guys finally have health care though! | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: grats on finally getting something that basically every first-world country has had for decades ^_^ im sorry your government and media are so terrified of communism that it took this long + Show Spoiler + lolol fueling the fire, don't mind me i don't know shit about politics! im glad you guys finally have health care though! I have already had health care for awhile now. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 23 2010 07:07 StarsPride wrote: This is infact a great idea. unfortunately the government is inclined to believe that it can make the best decisions for everyone because people cant be trusted with making there own decisions because they will always choose the bad. If there were enough jobs for everyone not as many people would rely on the government. and thats something they wont let happen the average person cant get a job with good health insurance in michigan. You know nothing. People dont get fulltime specifically so that the company doesnt have to pay health insurance. The big 3 pay so much money in attrition and benefits its unbelievable. With Universal Healthcare the autoindustry would be much easier to get back on its feet. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 23 2010 03:11 xDaunt wrote: So here you are, referring to the republicans as "nutbags" and "gay ass republicans." Do you think that that attitude would get you very far in getting a republican to vote for your initiatives or legislation? Considering that the liberal democrats who pushed health care reform shared and expressed your sentiments (although not verbatim), how can anyone expect the republicans to come to the table? they wont come to the table in the first place. Thats why they are gay ass republicans. They are socially backwards as a whole and anti-science. Except when it comes to them personally.....Oh nooooo then they want the best they can get. Fuck everyone else. Do you think Regan family would have been for stem cell research had they not realized it could have helped him? Hell no. The republican party is a joke and forever will be a joke while the religious right and social conservatives are involved. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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ammeL
United States211 Posts
However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread). (Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future). | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
As far as the bill that was pushed through the house, I have mixed feelings on it. I think it's far from perfect, and I'm disappointed that the Democrats caved and decided to not allow federal funds to cover abortions (although I understand it wouldn't have passed unless that language was removed). However, far from perfect as it is, it's still a major step in the right direction, and a bill that was 20 years overdue. That said, as a college student that will be graduating while Obama is still in office, when are we getting the job reform bill? I think that should have had higher priority... | ||
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ammeL
United States211 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:24 BrownBear wrote: As far as the bill that was pushed through the house, I have mixed feelings on it. I think it's far from perfect, and I'm disappointed that the Democrats caved and decided to not allow federal funds to cover abortions (although I understand it wouldn't have passed unless that language was removed). However, far from perfect as it is, it's still a major step in the right direction, and a bill that was 20 years overdue. That said, as a college student that will be graduating while Obama is still in office, when are we getting the job reform bill? I think that should have had higher priority... I agree -- the bill is NOT perfect and far from it. However, it IS on the right track. Think about it this way: right now, the government ALREADY puts forth 45% of the economy towards medicaid/medicare (the government practically already runs the insurance industry), so with this reform, they just have more ownership (not a big deal), and it's beneficial to practically everyone. Of course, it has flaws but it's better than our current system and that's for damn sure. Not to mention, Doctors may be making less now (which is a legitimate argument against this reform), but what most people fail to understand is that doctors create their OWN demand... this reform isn't really going to affect them all that much. And I second your "job reform bill," as an undergraduate student, as well. Lol. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:16 ammeL wrote: I'm a fan of this reform because it does have many advantages for those residing in the United States; not to mention, I'm an advocate of universality. However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread). (Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future). If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them. The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him. I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc. Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more. | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
i remember watching the news back in December and remember them saying "senate is pushing the health care bill to be passed before Christmas" since then its gone between the senate and house numerous times, and i lost track of what it contained, and what it doesn't contain. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:43 xDaunt wrote: Keep in mind that the political spectrum in America is very different than elsewhere in the world. While the provision of a "robust public option" may be centrist in Europe or elsewhere, it's solidly left in the USA. A single payer system is considered far left. In the spectrum of American politics, Obama is very liberal and the most leftist president that we've ever had. Whether you like Obama's policies or not, the simple truth is that the American people simply won't stomach most of what he'd like to do in the USA. That's why the health care bill that was passed is so unpopular. Wow we boned the quotes up here. And no, Obama is not very liberal and the most leftist president that you've ever had. Maybe he's the most leftist since Reagan, but you have a very, very strong progressive streak throughout your history. I mean, pinning Obama as more left than FDR? How does that even work? The American political spectrum hasn't even been 'different' from the rest of the world's for very long. Its been in the past 30 years that mass media has started describing centrist agendas as leftist. This coincides with the rise of national television media around the same period. | ||
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ammeL
United States211 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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sMi.MeOw
New Zealand160 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:54 ammeL wrote: A single payer system is the best possible thing that could happen, in terms of health care. Look at Canada and England. Don't know about Canada but UK/AUS/NZ's problem after the health reform = less doctor, less nurses, loooooooooooong ass waiting list for something simple such as hip replacement for the elderly...oh and the best of all...foreigners scamming the system... | ||
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StarsPride
United States364 Posts
This is not freedom and it is a clear sign that the congressman and even our own president has lost touch with what there duties are. It is there duty to uphold the constitution. No man can prove this is constitutional.. Our decleration and Our constitution is what seperates us from every other nation on the globe. It ensures us that no government can take away our god given right to choose. The government can not by any means pass the health care bill LEGALY. People are FORCED to BUY insurance to ensure CITEZENSHIP. such a shame.. this country is such a wreck. Let me be one of the few to say HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. HEALTH COST IS THE PROBLEM. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:47 L wrote: Wow we boned the quotes up here. And no, Obama is not very liberal and the most leftist president that you've ever had. Maybe he's the most leftist since Reagan, but you have a very, very strong progressive streak throughout your history. I mean, pinning Obama as more left than FDR? How does that even work? The American political spectrum hasn't even been 'different' from the rest of the world's for very long. Its been in the past 30 years that mass media has started describing centrist agendas as leftist. This coincides with the rise of national television media around the same period. You could definitely make a good pitch that FDR and Woodrow were more liberal/progressive than Obama is. That said, Obama is actively pushing the USA further left than its ever been. Health care is just the first step. He has "cap and trade" and immigration reform waiting on deck, among other things. I agree to an extent that the American political spectrum has diverged greatly from Europe's over the past 30 years, at least in terms of relative definitions of liberal and conservative. However, one could just as well argue that American politics have never been like Europe's. I think that one of the things that Europeans and other non-Americans do not understand is that Americans, on the whole, are just different from people from other nations. Hell, this is something that I did not even really understand until I travelled through other countries, met lots of people from other cultures, and saw how they lived. One of the funniest and most eye-opening moments from my travels was explaining to some Europeans the real purpose of the Second Amendment. Americans simply have different values and priorities than most everyone else. Chalk it up to "American exceptionalism" or whatever you want to call it, but it's the reason why American politics is so different from European politics. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 23 2010 08:34 L wrote: If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them. The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him. I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc. Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more. You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Obama's chrarisma has proven to be entirely illusory beyond being able to give a speech off of a teleprompter. He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted. If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy. I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama. He actually managed a fair degree of bipartisanship during his tenure. As I pointed out earlier, "No Child Left Behind" is case in point. His handling of the economic crisis during his last months in office is another example. All Obama has managed to do is vex the republicans and galvanize their opposition to him. That's political suicide in the making, the reason why Obama's approval ratings have plummeted, and the reason why he'll be a one term president. | ||
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