On March 23 2010 08:16 ammeL wrote: I'm a fan of this reform because it does have many advantages for those residing in the United States; not to mention, I'm an advocate of universality.
However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread).
(Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future).
If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them.
The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him.
I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc.
Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more.
You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Obama's chrarisma has proven to be entirely illusory beyond being able to give a speech off of a teleprompter. He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted.
If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy.
I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama. He actually managed a fair degree of bipartisanship during his tenure. As I pointed out earlier, "No Child Left Behind" is case in point. His handling of the economic crisis during his last months in office is another example.
All Obama has managed to do is vex the republicans and galvanize their opposition to him. That's political suicide in the making, the reason why Obama's approval ratings have plummeted, and the reason why he'll be a one term president.
.......
What part of the republicans wont work with anyone dont you understand?
Did you hear the bullshit they spewed at his meeting with them? What the fuck. Nothing but retarded rhetoric. The republicans want no part for government in healthcare. They lie through their teeth and no one calls them out on it. If the democrats were as good as the republicans at politics the republicans would never win.
On March 23 2010 08:24 BrownBear wrote: To be fair, when have the Republicans been willing to meet with Obama and actually discuss things rationally? The "Party of No" moniker is looking more and more accurate lately, and I'm honestly very very scared of the direction the Republican lawmakers are going. If they continue being swayed by a small but very vocal minority of Conservatives (The Tea Partiers, essentially), then they are going to alienate 2/3 of the country and probably eventually get voted out of office, but not before potentially causing a lot of damage.
As far as the bill that was pushed through the house, I have mixed feelings on it. I think it's far from perfect, and I'm disappointed that the Democrats caved and decided to not allow federal funds to cover abortions (although I understand it wouldn't have passed unless that language was removed). However, far from perfect as it is, it's still a major step in the right direction, and a bill that was 20 years overdue.
That said, as a college student that will be graduating while Obama is still in office, when are we getting the job reform bill? I think that should have had higher priority...
A job reform bill? If you think that you are entitled to a job, you're in for a very rude surprise when you hit the real world.
If you want more jobs to be available, then you should tell Obama and your representatives to quit taxing businesses so much and ease up the restrictions and regulations that cost businesses so much money. You might find this surprising, but the more profitable businesses are, the more people they hire.
On March 23 2010 09:38 StarsPride wrote: its a joke that i have to live in a country where im forced to pay for everyones health insurance in a socialistic program. This is the kind of shit our founding fathers fought against. This is not freedom and it is a clear sign that the congressman and even our own president has lost touch with what there duties are. It is there duty to uphold the constitution. No man can prove this is constitutional.. Our decleration and Our constitution is what seperates us from every other nation on the globe. It ensures us that no government can take away our god given right to choose. The government can not by any means pass the health care bill LEGALY. People are FORCED to BUY insurance to ensure CITEZENSHIP. such a shame.. this country is such a wreck. Let me be one of the few to say HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. HEALTH COST IS THE PROBLEM.
The fuck you talking about? You do realize most elderly people on Medicaid/Medicare are against the health care reform, right? Yet, they are using socialized health care for fuck's sake -_-;;
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
Americans piss me off, because they don't even know the basis behind "socialism" (omgsobadright?) -- Sweden has the highest standard of living, and they are considered socialist democracy, but idiots in the States think socialism = bad always.
You fucking idiots, you know those FREEDOM FIGHTERS in Sparta when they fought against the Persians (ie 300)? They were fucking communists. Literally.
Ya its amazing the people the conservatives try to paint as allies or symbols. I ROFL @ Glenn Beck and the Tea Baggers acting like Thomas Paine would want a fucking thing to do with them.
Impressive that it was actually passed, but it's really only the beginning. The GOP will be undermining and appealing the policies of the bill at every turn. If the democrats can hold the majority and keep power long enough to see this through then that will be even more impressive. However if the transition period to implement the new policies doesn't go picture perfect the GOP will have an sizable arsenal of campaign material to run on. Similar to how the disastrous 8 years of bush & neo conservatism surged favor towards the democrats.
On March 23 2010 09:38 StarsPride wrote: its a joke that i have to live in a country where im forced to pay for everyones health insurance in a socialistic program. This is the kind of shit our founding fathers fought against. This is not freedom and it is a clear sign that the congressman and even our own president has lost touch with what there duties are. It is there duty to uphold the constitution. No man can prove this is constitutional.. Our decleration and Our constitution is what seperates us from every other nation on the globe. It ensures us that no government can take away our god given right to choose. The government can not by any means pass the health care bill LEGALY. People are FORCED to BUY insurance to ensure CITEZENSHIP. such a shame.. this country is such a wreck. Let me be one of the few to say HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. HEALTH COST IS THE PROBLEM.
The fuck you talking about? You do realize most elderly people on Medicaid/Medicare are against the health care reform, right? Yet, they are using socialized health care for fuck's sake -_-;;
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
Americans piss me off, because they don't even know the basis behind "socialism" (omgsobadright?) -- Sweden has the highest standard of living, and they are considered socialist democracy, but idiots in the States think socialism = bad always.
You fucking idiots, you know those FREEDOM FIGHTERS in Sparta when they fought against the Persians (ie 300)? They were fucking communists. Literally.
lool. figures your not american. already bred to believe bullshit User was banned for this post.
On March 23 2010 08:16 ammeL wrote: I'm a fan of this reform because it does have many advantages for those residing in the United States; not to mention, I'm an advocate of universality.
However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread).
(Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future).
If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them.
The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him.
I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc.
Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more.
You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Obama's chrarisma has proven to be entirely illusory beyond being able to give a speech off of a teleprompter. He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted.
If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy.
I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama. He actually managed a fair degree of bipartisanship during his tenure. As I pointed out earlier, "No Child Left Behind" is case in point. His handling of the economic crisis during his last months in office is another example.
All Obama has managed to do is vex the republicans and galvanize their opposition to him. That's political suicide in the making, the reason why Obama's approval ratings have plummeted, and the reason why he'll be a one term president.
.......
What part of the republicans wont work with anyone dont you understand?
Did you hear the bullshit they spewed at his meeting with them? What the fuck. Nothing but retarded rhetoric. The republicans want no part for government in healthcare. They lie through their teeth and no one calls them out on it. If the democrats were as good as the republicans at politics the republicans would never win.
What part of "Obama never had any interest in working with the republicans nor gave them an opportunity to participate in health care reform" don't you understand? Seriously, are you really that clueless as to who wrote the health care bill or how it was written?
You'd do well to separate yourself from your partisanship when looking at these issues. If you can't distinguish between the talking points and the truth from time to time, you're going to be a tool for the rest of your life. User was temp banned for this post.
On March 23 2010 08:16 ammeL wrote: I'm a fan of this reform because it does have many advantages for those residing in the United States; not to mention, I'm an advocate of universality.
However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread).
(Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future).
If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them.
The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him.
I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc.
Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more.
You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Obama's chrarisma has proven to be entirely illusory beyond being able to give a speech off of a teleprompter. He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted.
If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy.
I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama. He actually managed a fair degree of bipartisanship during his tenure. As I pointed out earlier, "No Child Left Behind" is case in point. His handling of the economic crisis during his last months in office is another example.
All Obama has managed to do is vex the republicans and galvanize their opposition to him. That's political suicide in the making, the reason why Obama's approval ratings have plummeted, and the reason why he'll be a one term president.
.......
What part of the republicans wont work with anyone dont you understand?
Did you hear the bullshit they spewed at his meeting with them? What the fuck. Nothing but retarded rhetoric. The republicans want no part for government in healthcare. They lie through their teeth and no one calls them out on it. If the democrats were as good as the republicans at politics the republicans would never win.
What part of "Obama never had any interest in working with the republicans nor gave them an opportunity to participate in health care reform" don't you understand? Seriously, are you really that clueless as to who wrote the health care bill or how it was written?
You'd do well to separate yourself from your partisanship when looking at these issues. If you can't distinguish between the talking points and the truth from time to time, you're going to be a tool for the rest of your life.
On March 23 2010 10:17 z7-TranCe wrote: Impressive that it was actually passed, but it's really only the beginning. The GOP will be undermining and appealing the policies of the bill at every turn. If the democrats can hold the majority and keep power long enough to see this through then that will be even more impressive. However if the transition period to implement the new policies doesn't go picture perfect the GOP will have an sizable arsenal of campaign material to run on. Similar to how the disastrous 8 years of bush & neo conservatism surged favor towards the democrats.
True. However, the problem for the democratic party and Obama is that a majority of Americans currently think that the bill is a piece of garbage. If the democrats cannot convince a majority of Americans otherwise, then the democrats are going to get destroyed in the next two elections.
The other unfortunate truth is that the bill that has been passed is probably the bill that we're going to be stuck with for some time. I don't think that there's any chance that the current congress passes any reforms. In fact, I wouldn't expect any reforms until, at the very earliest, after the 2012 elections.
On March 23 2010 08:16 ammeL wrote: I'm a fan of this reform because it does have many advantages for those residing in the United States; not to mention, I'm an advocate of universality.
However, Obama is still an idiot - he totally ignored the Republicans since he got into office and that's why he had such trouble passing this bill. Even after it passed, the Senate had to put the bill under 'reconciliation' -- showing just how badly Obama has neglected the thoughts of the Republicans. He can't even sign the bill officially, until it passes reconciliation (and it has failed one time in the past and would be hilarious if it fails again). Politics is not a one-way street (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread).
(Also, not to say that I am supporting the republicans, but as the President, he should realize that he needs to listen/gain favoritism of Republicans if he hopes to get something major like this passed again in the future).
If someone ignores you when you talk to them it doesn't mean you are ignoring them.
The republicans realize they can't come close to fielding someone as charismatic as Obama so their electoral strategy has been to prevent him from making any legislative headway so that when the next election cycle comes up they can throw the "you didn't do anything" card at him.
I mean, Obama went as far as to speak in front of the entire republican assembly to ask them to work together and stop downright lying to people and they haven't. What the fuck more do you want him to do? He gutted his pride and joy bill to satisfy their requests, stated numerous times that he was willing to listen to republican points like tort reform, etc.
Its sad that this is what America is. America used to be so much more.
You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Obama's chrarisma has proven to be entirely illusory beyond being able to give a speech off of a teleprompter. He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted.
If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy.
I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama. He actually managed a fair degree of bipartisanship during his tenure. As I pointed out earlier, "No Child Left Behind" is case in point. His handling of the economic crisis during his last months in office is another example.
All Obama has managed to do is vex the republicans and galvanize their opposition to him. That's political suicide in the making, the reason why Obama's approval ratings have plummeted, and the reason why he'll be a one term president.
.......
What part of the republicans wont work with anyone dont you understand?
Did you hear the bullshit they spewed at his meeting with them? What the fuck. Nothing but retarded rhetoric. The republicans want no part for government in healthcare. They lie through their teeth and no one calls them out on it. If the democrats were as good as the republicans at politics the republicans would never win.
What part of "Obama never had any interest in working with the republicans nor gave them an opportunity to participate in health care reform" don't you understand? Seriously, are you really that clueless as to who wrote the health care bill or how it was written?
You'd do well to separate yourself from your partisanship when looking at these issues. If you can't distinguish between the talking points and the truth from time to time, you're going to be a tool for the rest of your life.
oh the hypocrisy is too good here =)
You're more than welcome to show me when Obama invited particular republicans to sit down and write the health care bill. Just to be clear, neither Obama giving speeches to republicans nor that event at the Blair House count (the health care bill had already been written and passed in the Senate before the Blair House meeting).
When I'm wrong, I'm perfectly happy to admit as such.
Interpreted by the medical profession: We will pay you less and tax you more, without any discussion of tort reform or school loan forgiveness. Is it any wonder no one wants to do primary care?
On March 23 2010 10:37 radar14 wrote: Interpreted by the medical profession: We will pay you less and tax you more, without any discussion of tort reform or school loan forgiveness. Is it any wonder no one wants to do primary care?
Amen.
And people are always like "doctors make too much money, it's not fair!" Well if you went to school until you were 30 and then worked 80 hours a week, you'd deserve 100k too.
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
The importance of the post-election approval rating is that Obama was very popular and the republicans could only oppose him at their own peril of being perceived as an obstructionist party. Obama certainly did not have a mandate to do anything that he wanted. That's why his approval ratings have sunk over the past year. However, he did have the support of the people to push an agenda, including health care reform, as long as that agenda did not stray too far to the left. Obama strayed too far to the left from the start, alienated all of the republicans (which is quite impressive if you really think about it), and, consequently, pissed away whatever mandate that he had. The root of Obama's problem is that he refused to work with the republicans and offer any sort of meaningful compromise. Good politics is not a one-way street.
Also, this notion that republicans are per se against health reform is ridiculous. All of the polls show that most people, including republicans, agree that something needs to be done. Again, where people differ is how to change the system. If your notion of health reform exclusively means "the creation of a robust public option," you're going to find that 65-70% of the country disagrees with you, including virtually all of the republicans.
Define Left. Center right =/= left.
Obama's policies are center right in any definition of left vs. right.
Public option is center left. Singlepayer is far left.
Obama got away from both of them. How the hell is that going too far left?
As for the public option, it polls at around 55%. A majority of the people in this country want it. That poll I am citing is actually from Fox news.
Single payer isn't even far left. Actual socialized medicine is far left; Ie the doctors work for the government. Single payer systems simply have the government reimburse doctors, but doesn't have them regulate them aside from the creation of a professional body.
Public option is pretty much 100% centrist. You can go private, you can go public, you can do whatever you fucking want.
Keep in mind that the political spectrum in America is very different than elsewhere in the world. While the provision of a "robust public option" may be centrist in Europe or elsewhere, it's solidly left in the USA. A single payer system is considered far left.
In the spectrum of American politics, Obama is very liberal and the most leftist president that we've ever had. Whether you like Obama's policies or not, the simple truth is that the American people simply won't stomach most of what he'd like to do in the USA. That's why the health care bill that was passed is so unpopular.
Wow we boned the quotes up here.
And no, Obama is not very liberal and the most leftist president that you've ever had. Maybe he's the most leftist since Reagan, but you have a very, very strong progressive streak throughout your history.
I mean, pinning Obama as more left than FDR? How does that even work?
The American political spectrum hasn't even been 'different' from the rest of the world's for very long. Its been in the past 30 years that mass media has started describing centrist agendas as leftist. This coincides with the rise of national television media around the same period.
You could definitely make a good pitch that FDR and Woodrow were more liberal/progressive than Obama is. That said, Obama is actively pushing the USA further left than its ever been. Health care is just the first step. He has "cap and trade" and immigration reform waiting on deck, among other things.
I agree to an extent that the American political spectrum has diverged greatly from Europe's over the past 30 years, at least in terms of relative definitions of liberal and conservative. However, one could just as well argue that American politics have never been like Europe's. I think that one of the things that Europeans and other non-Americans do not understand is that Americans, on the whole, are just different from people from other nations. Hell, this is something that I did not even really understand until I travelled through other countries, met lots of people from other cultures, and saw how they lived. One of the funniest and most eye-opening moments from my travels was explaining to some Europeans the real purpose of the Second Amendment.
Americans simply have different values and priorities than most everyone else. Chalk it up to "American exceptionalism" or whatever you want to call it, but it's the reason why American politics is so different from European politics.
I wouldn't stop at FDR and Woodrow. I think the perception of what 'left' is has changed dramatically over time which has led to centrist policies being mistaken for 'left' policies.
There's really nothing that can compare with social insurance, medicare, the new deal, the income tax, etc. In recent times, funding schools and giving vouchers has been touted as near apocalyptic socialism. Do you see the slight difference between instituting nationwide welfare and buying a few books? Clearly you don't, since you'd place the books further left than one of the prime incarnations of left-leaning political philosophy.
American politics have never been like Europe's? American politics are a direct descendant of Europes and the cultural background of the states is rooted in a radical left anarchism. Both systems are directly descended from the greek/french/english tradition of philosophy. There's no place more similar in the world to america, after Canada, than Europe.
Americans don't really have different values and priorities than most everyone else. If you bothered to look at public concern polls prior to the expansion of mass media, you'd note that the two historic concerns of pretty much every person in the western world were health and employment. That hasn't changed.
You should at least get your facts straight before you post something like this.
I did. Your teleprompter comments are literally talking points from fox news. Oh hey, just like I told you; its the media feeding you exactly what to say.
He has shown a complete inability to work with republicans. Speaking in front of them was a political stunt, nothing more. If he really intended to work with republicans, he would have invited them into the meetings that he had with other democrats and democratic special interest groups where the health care bill was actually drafted.
No, he has a complete inability to work with people who refuse to work with him. That's pretty much a tautology right there. Speaking in front of them was a stunt, yet he hasn't the ability to work with them? He asks repeatedly for them to reach across the aisle, states that he'll accept their proposals if they're verifiable by third parties and you're asking that they have them drafting the thing?
They basically did!
The bill was gutted compared to the campaign promises. Republicans argued through DINO proxies who refused to give assent because of the abortion issue, amongst others.
If you still want to blame the republicans and need further evidence of Obama's very apparent lack of charisma, just look at how he has handled foreign policy so far. He has managed to piss off all of our allies during his first year in office, the most egregious offenses being against Britain and Israel. Even French President Sarkozy called Obama out for wimping out when it came to handling Iran. You know that something's wrong when the French basically call the US president a pussy.
Oh, you mean that him not caving to Israel's attempts to start a war is him being a pussy? Or do you mean that he should have started up the war drums when its pretty obvious the country is crippled due to being overextended in two theaters thanks to rumsfeld? If America is acting like a pussy right now its because it can't bluff that its going to start a third war when the American people clearly didn't like the first two.
But I guess Obama being put in charge of a vastly weakened America is his fault.
Or Clinton's.
I posit to you that even Bush, as much of a buffoon as he was, had more charisma than Obama.
And I stopped reading. Maybe you don't understand what charisma is. Or bipartisanship, for that matter.
Feel free to tell me what the republican congress is doing towards bipartisanship? Talking about death panels to scare the elderly? The death panels that they proposed? Give me a fucking break.
uh news flash for people saying they don't think taxpayer dollars should pay for the uninsured to have insurance: they already do Yeah, when uninsured people go to the hospital because they got hit by a bus or had a heart attack or something, the hospital pays for the treatment and is reimbursed by the government (using taxpayer dollars).
Except the hospital gives them the bare minimum treatment since they aren't really getting paid (government gyps them off a bit), so when their quick-fix heat treatment stops working they're right back in the ER 2 weeks later, needing more treatment that is again paid for with taxpayer money. thats the way it is now.
Under the new plan, everyone has insurance so you don't end up with situations i just described because everyone goes to the doctors office for checkups and stuff. this saves money in the end,preventative care is cheaper
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
And your point is...
Oh yeah and nice post kid, if you read the entire OP you'd know what his point is
On March 23 2010 12:04 funnybananaman94 wrote: uh news flash for people saying they don't think taxpayer dollars should pay for the uninsured to have insurance: they already do Yeah, when uninsured people go to the hospital because they got hit by a bus or had a heart attack or something, the hospital pays for the treatment and is reimbursed by the government (using taxpayer dollars).
Except the hospital gives them the bare minimum treatment since they aren't really getting paid (government gyps them off a bit), so when their quick-fix heat treatment stops working they're right back in the ER 2 weeks later, needing more treatment that is again paid for with taxpayer money. thats the way it is now.
Under the new plan, everyone has insurance so you don't end up with situations i just described because everyone goes to the doctors office for checkups and stuff. this saves money in the end,preventative care is cheaper
Go read the actual bill, and if you don't wana read the 2,700 page bill the representatives didn't have time to read Alex Jones summarizes it really well over youtube.
On March 23 2010 12:04 funnybananaman94 wrote: uh news flash for people saying they don't think taxpayer dollars should pay for the uninsured to have insurance: they already do Yeah, when uninsured people go to the hospital because they got hit by a bus or had a heart attack or something, the hospital pays for the treatment and is reimbursed by the government (using taxpayer dollars).
Except the hospital gives them the bare minimum treatment since they aren't really getting paid (government gyps them off a bit), so when their quick-fix heat treatment stops working they're right back in the ER 2 weeks later, needing more treatment that is again paid for with taxpayer money. thats the way it is now.
Under the new plan, everyone has insurance so you don't end up with situations i just described because everyone goes to the doctors office for checkups and stuff. this saves money in the end,preventative care is cheaper
Go read the actual bill, and if you don't wana read the 2,700 page bill the representatives didn't have time to read Alex Jones summarizes it really well over youtube.
You'd do well to separate yourself from your partisanship when looking at these issues. If you can't distinguish between the talking points and the truth from time to time, you're going to be a tool for the rest of your life.
On March 23 2010 09:38 StarsPride wrote: its a joke that i have to live in a country where im forced to pay for everyones health insurance in a socialistic program. This is the kind of shit our founding fathers fought against. This is not freedom and it is a clear sign that the congressman and even our own president has lost touch with what there duties are. It is there duty to uphold the constitution. No man can prove this is constitutional.. Our decleration and Our constitution is what seperates us from every other nation on the globe. It ensures us that no government can take away our god given right to choose. The government can not by any means pass the health care bill LEGALY. People are FORCED to BUY insurance to ensure CITEZENSHIP. such a shame.. this country is such a wreck. Let me be one of the few to say HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. HEALTH COST IS THE PROBLEM.
The fuck you talking about? You do realize most elderly people on Medicaid/Medicare are against the health care reform, right? Yet, they are using socialized health care for fuck's sake -_-;;
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
Americans piss me off, because they don't even know the basis behind "socialism" (omgsobadright?) -- Sweden has the highest standard of living, and they are considered socialist democracy, but idiots in the States think socialism = bad always.
You fucking idiots, you know those FREEDOM FIGHTERS in Sparta when they fought against the Persians (ie 300)? They were fucking communists. Literally.
lool. figures your not american. already bred to believe bullshit
On March 23 2010 09:38 StarsPride wrote: its a joke that i have to live in a country where im forced to pay for everyones health insurance in a socialistic program. This is the kind of shit our founding fathers fought against. This is not freedom and it is a clear sign that the congressman and even our own president has lost touch with what there duties are. It is there duty to uphold the constitution. No man can prove this is constitutional.. Our decleration and Our constitution is what seperates us from every other nation on the globe. It ensures us that no government can take away our god given right to choose. The government can not by any means pass the health care bill LEGALY. People are FORCED to BUY insurance to ensure CITEZENSHIP. such a shame.. this country is such a wreck. Let me be one of the few to say HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. HEALTH COST IS THE PROBLEM.
The fuck you talking about? You do realize most elderly people on Medicaid/Medicare are against the health care reform, right? Yet, they are using socialized health care for fuck's sake -_-;;
"Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill?
Americans piss me off, because they don't even know the basis behind "socialism" (omgsobadright?) -- Sweden has the highest standard of living, and they are considered socialist democracy, but idiots in the States think socialism = bad always.
You fucking idiots, you know those FREEDOM FIGHTERS in Sparta when they fought against the Persians (ie 300)? They were fucking communists. Literally. User was warned for this post.
I know this is a sensitive issue, but can we discuss it without calling people "fucking idiots" "tools" or questioning the breeding process under which they were created? Thanks.
EPT
