EPTRandomKo_orean is this you? I hope it's not because the OP's intelligence level is seriously in question...and talking about USA politics on a European website is like asking to be buttraped...
Healthcare Reform in the US - Page 51
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sMi.MeOw
New Zealand160 Posts
RandomKo_orean is this you? I hope it's not because the OP's intelligence level is seriously in question...and talking about USA politics on a European website is like asking to be buttraped... | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
This thread is full of people being banned and begging to be ban. At times like these, it's better to hold your peace and let the hot-heads rage at each other. On March 23 2010 10:43 Neverborn wrote: Amen. And people are always like "doctors make too much money, it's not fair!" Well if you went to school until you were 30 and then worked 80 hours a week, you'd deserve 100k too. 100k would be a huge rip off for probably 300k worth of tuition and 80 hour weeks. That's normalized to 50k a year on normal hours. That's being undervalued. 200k at least for those hours! | ||
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dirtylaundry
United States4 Posts
On March 23 2010 12:39 sMi.MeOw wrote: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/thread/507625-health-care-reform-passed RandomKo_orean is this you? I hope it's not because the OP's intelligence level is seriously in question...and talking about USA politics on a European website is like asking to be buttraped... thats nex-november, hes from seattle, and his intelligence level is probably not lower then yours( also its his actual picture, is that what makes you envious?) I dont understand how you can insult someone over a matter like this one, to me someone like tangent is absolutely out of his mind but im not throwing insults his way | ||
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Undisputed-
United States379 Posts
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HeartOfTofu
United States308 Posts
While supporters of reform may praise the Democratic party and the President for essentially playing "hardball" to get the bill passed at all costs, I think we need to be conscious of the fact that it's these kinds of power plays that ingrain deep resent and division across the country and leads countries into civil war be it military or political. Regardless of all that is said about efforts to make Republicans a part of this law making process, the simple fact that they were willing to push this through without a single Republican vote just because they could speaks volumes about how much they actually cared about Republican input at all. Please don't think I'm some right-wing nut either because I'd say the same thing about the Republicans if they were the ones in power and pulling this nonsense. Also, if it was the Republicans pulling this crap (and maybe one day they will be in the position to), I'm sure plenty of Democrats would have loads of unpleasant things to say about it as well. Just because you CAN do something doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD regardless of the ideology behind the cause. And to top it all off, what did we really get for all these absurd politics? We ended up with a bastardized bill that does little to nothing in the way of real reform in the healthcare industry. While the bill is touted as a "great first step", I would have hoped for a bit more than a "great first step" after ingraining so much resentment and spending so much political capital. Let's not kid ourselves here... I think it's clear to just about everyone on BOTH sides that there are some serious flaws in this bill that was passed that are going to need to be addressed at some future date when they should have been addressed before passing it. While I will admit I was against healthcare reform being passed right now (not on principle but on timing due to our current economic state and other troubles), but if you're going to go ahead and stir up trouble to do it, at least do it right the first time around for heaven's sake.. When I realize that we're eventually going to be in this same spot a few years from now to try to fix this bill to what it should have been, it makes me want to dig a hole and go hide in it because if anything, it's only going to get uglier from here... And if all this political drama wasn't enough for one lifetime, they're already off talking about immigration reform... FML I think I'll go start digging that hole now because I'm sick of hearing the idiots crying "Armageddon" and I'm tired of hearing the rhetoric of Pelosi and her ilk... Where the hell did all the sensible people go? -_- | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 23 2010 12:04 funnybananaman94 wrote: uh news flash for people saying they don't think taxpayer dollars should pay for the uninsured to have insurance: they already do Yeah, when uninsured people go to the hospital because they got hit by a bus or had a heart attack or something, the hospital pays for the treatment and is reimbursed by the government (using taxpayer dollars). Except the hospital gives them the bare minimum treatment since they aren't really getting paid (government gyps them off a bit), so when their quick-fix heat treatment stops working they're right back in the ER 2 weeks later, needing more treatment that is again paid for with taxpayer money. thats the way it is now. Under the new plan, everyone has insurance so you don't end up with situations i just described because everyone goes to the doctors office for checkups and stuff. this saves money in the end,preventative care is cheaper This is true for the sickly ones. It's not true over the general population who are mostly healthy. Covering everyone with preventive care is more expensive. ER visits for the uninsured are too expensive for routine stuff and it might toll bankruptcy for the serious operations. ERs don't do a bad job, per se, since they risk malpractice if they make a mistake or eat the next round of losses when the individual comes back in again if bankruptcy is involved. The ER splits the bankruptcy risk between all ER visitors, insured and uninsured. The uninsured don't benefit from group bargaining power of the insurance companies, and if they can't declare bankruptcy, then they have a huge medical bill on their hands. The uninsured are especially careful about preventive care since any complication could lead directly to bankruptcy. They may not seek out a medical professional for that care, and thus may be misguided, but they do try really really hard. A lot of the problem comes from government underpayment of Medicaid services and the failure of Medicaid patients to steadily see a doctor. The problem is mutual. Doctors, especially general practitioners hate seeing Medicaid patients for the extensive examinations they have to do and the dearth of billable procedures. Medicare payments is also slowly lagging behind cost, and doctors and hospitals are shifting those costs to the insured and uninsured to make up for it. | ||
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Undisputed-
United States379 Posts
On March 23 2010 10:02 randomKo_Orean wrote: The fuck you talking about? You do realize most elderly people on Medicaid/Medicare are against the health care reform, right? Yet, they are using socialized health care for fuck's sake -_-;; "Forced to pay for everyone's health insurance" Whoopie fucking do, United States is the LAST 1st-class country to have "socialized" health care. By the way, did you even read the damn bill? Americans piss me off, because they don't even know the basis behind "socialism" (omgsobadright?) -- Sweden has the highest standard of living, and they are considered socialist democracy, but idiots in the States think socialism = bad always. You fucking idiots, you know those FREEDOM FIGHTERS in Sparta when they fought against the Persians (ie 300)? They were fucking communists. Literally. User was warned for this post. The US had the best healthcare system in the world bar none. It's not perfect, but there is no where else I'd rather live. A government that can give you everything you want, can also take everything you have. I think this is the basic argument against socialism. Power corrupts. I have faith that democrats will get clobbered this November. Especially in the manner they passed this. Americans will not stand by while this country is destroyed. The only bipartisan part of this bill was the opposition to it. Not that it really matters if democrats voted against it, all of them are far left of center, "blue dog" or not they all answer the liberal call, I hope all of them lose their seats. | ||
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
On March 23 2010 12:09 neVern wrote: Go read the actual bill, and if you don't wana read the 2,700 page bill the representatives didn't have time to read Alex Jones summarizes it really well over youtube. dunno about alex jones but i just watched a video about it on cnn. by 2014 almost every american will be required to have health insurance, and if you can't get it/are uninsured there's this insurance exchange thing you can do with your state so you still get coverage. So what i said originally should make sense... | ||
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Igakusei
United States610 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:02 TanGeng wrote: LOL, This thread is full of people being banned and begging to be ban. At times like these, it's better to hold your peace and let the hot-heads rage at each other. 100k would be a huge rip off for probably 300k worth of tuition and 80 hour weeks. That's normalized to 50k a year on normal hours. That's being undervalued. 200k at least for those hours! I agree, but after all this crap settles down PCPs will probably be lucky for 100. | ||
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ellenburstyn
India1 Post
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:02 TanGeng wrote: 100k would be a huge rip off for probably 300k worth of tuition and 80 hour weeks. That's normalized to 50k a year on normal hours. That's being undervalued. 200k at least for those hours! Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Primary Care. I think we can all agree that that "specialization" is headed in a completely negative direction. No med student wants to be primary care anymore thanks for just a ridiculous amount of paperwork, long hours, and low pay, all a result of, well, our medical system. And that leads to another one of my gripes of our medical system, in that no information is centralized and literally nothing is done on computers. I swear that it's like still in the dark ages in terms of patient data. Sure we have MRIs and high tech in that area, but no one innovates patient data because it isn't "profitable". It's just sad. But I digress. About the bill - it does nothing to solve this. On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: The US had the best healthcare system in the world bar none. It's not perfect, but there is no where else I'd rather live. A government that can give you everything you want, can also take everything you have. I think this is the basic argument against socialism. Power corrupts. I have faith that democrats will get clobbered this November. Especially in the manner they passed this. Americans will not stand by while this country is destroyed. The only bipartisan part of this bill was the opposition to it. Not that it really matters if democrats voted against it, all of them are far left of center, "blue dog" or not they all answer the liberal call, I hope all of them lose their seats. What do you mean by the "best health care system in the world bar none"? I'd like to know how exactly you're measuring that. It might be a good soundbite, but I'm not exactly sure if that statement holds up overall. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On March 23 2010 14:48 Mystlord wrote: What do you mean by the "best health care system in the world bar none"? I'd like to know how exactly you're measuring that. It might be a good soundbite, but I'm not exactly sure if that statement holds up overall. You pay for what you get, and since we pay the most we get the most? | ||
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On March 23 2010 14:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote: You pay for what you get, and since we pay the most we get the most? So if you can afford it essentially. America has the largest disparity between health care given to the rich and health care given to the poor. Is that something to be proud of? Is that something we'd prefer over giving good health care to the bottom, oh let's say, ~75% of America? Unfortunately, the picture isn't necessarily rosy across the board. While we're good in some types of cancer, organ transplants, respiratory diseases, circulatory diseases, and diabetes are all the banes of our existence. It's ultimately chronic conditions that ends up going under the radar. | ||
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IndigO
United States17 Posts
On March 23 2010 12:39 sMi.MeOw wrote: http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/thread/507625-health-care-reform-passed RandomKo_orean is this you? I hope it's not because the OP's intelligence level is seriously in question...and talking about USA politics on a European website is like asking to be buttraped... On March 23 2010 13:21 dirtylaundry wrote: thats nex-november, hes from seattle, and his intelligence level is probably not lower then yours( also its his actual picture, is that what makes you envious?) I dont understand how you can insult someone over a matter like this one, to me someone like tangent is absolutely out of his mind but im not throwing insults his way Im not randomKo_orean, im NeX-November or Juuu on gg.net. YOUR ignorance and arrogance level is seriously in question smi.meow or are you mmrow on gg.net? lets keep it legit and post comments and question like this on the thread i posted in? To make this short as I can… The new health care system isn’t “free” at all. You will be forced upon to purchase the new government health program even if you choose not to. If you are currently uninsured and refuses to PURCHASE the new government health program you can be jailed up to 5 years and pay fine of $250,000. This bill will also raise and create more taxes, raise the cost of preminiums, weaken the medicate instead of strengthen it, it will increase the unemployment rate, it will increase the countries deficit, it will give the people no freedom at all relating to health care, it will give the government more power over the people, it violates the 10th amendment of the Constitution, the doctor won’t decide what kind plan/treatment you shall receive some guy in a suit in some new government run agency will. It’s like paying penalty for living. Do you think this is what the American people want right now? They should be talking about decreasing the money supply and creating more jobs. I’m not saying let’s keep the current health care program we have right now, I hate it with a passion. Our current health care and soon to be new health care program aren’t the only programs that brainless people in Washington D.C can come up with to help the people of this nation. I don't get it... they believe increasing spending will decrease the spending???? ummm... Yes, private insurance companies can’t deny you coverage because of pre existing conditions but you must realize that they WANT you in the government program. When I saw the new health bill that will cover the 32+ millions in America and the health companies can’t deny you because of pre existing conditions I couldn’t believe it, and good thing I didn’t from the new leaders that didn’t bring change for jack shit except bring more suffering to the people. And the first mother f@#$ing black president gets noble peace prize for sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan?!??? Tell me one thing that Obama and his administration did that they say they will do during his presidential campaign? Did Bush do what he say he will do when he was running his presidential campaign or ANY presidents of America? LOL you should see what he says. Obama just used the desperation of the American people for change after the bush administration as a tool to manipulate the people to believing their agenda like Bush did with “Terrorism”. | ||
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Zeridian
United States198 Posts
On March 23 2010 02:14 Try wrote: Either this is a troll, or this is quite possibly the most economically retarded post I have ever read. LOL, guess this was substance as a post. try: lolurdumb me: ok | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On March 23 2010 12:05 funnybananaman94 wrote: Oh yeah and nice post kid, if you read the entire OP you'd know what his point is Ok, I guess I should have quoted that person more clearer. Well anyways the person that he quotes makes a valid point that people shouldn't be forced to pay for healthcare and he brings up how America is the last 1st-class country to have socialized health care. I don't know how that makes an argument. Please enlighten me... | ||
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: The US had the best healthcare system in the world bar none. It's not perfect, but there is no where else I'd rather live. then why don't you have the longest life expectancy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_Expectancy_2008_Estimates_CIA_World_Factbook.svg why don't you have the least infant death rate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality#United_States very interestingly, conservative states have higher infant death rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality#Infant_mortality_rate_by_State On March 23 2010 14:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote: You pay for what you get, and since we pay the most we get the most? Have you heard of the terms "inefficiency" and "ripoff"? On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: A government that can give you everything you want, can also take everything you have. I think this is the basic argument against socialism. An economy that can give you everything you want, can also take everything you have. It actually does take everything they have from many people. Yet i have to see this argument laid out against capitalism. On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: Power corrupts. I agree. But why is it better to give that power to private corporations that only a handful of people can influence or even argue with than to the government that is re-elected by all of the people on fixed intervals? Government = elected by all of the people Corporations = a few individuals wielding power On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: Americans will not stand by while this country is destroyed. It really hurts to see people over-dramatizing things just like they do on fox. Remember ... this kind of reasoning brought you 2 wars, one of which was against international right with false evidence and the other you can't get out anytime soon. The only thing destroying your country is your lack of imagination and motivation (it's the same in europe btw.). Not presidents offering universal health care or terrorists hiding in middle-asian mountain ridges. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 23 2010 14:34 Neverborn wrote: I agree, but after all this crap settles down PCPs will probably be lucky for 100. It's inconceivable to get down to 100k for that kind of education investment without price controls or subsidies. Maybe we'll have government provided health care professional education like France. That's how they hide some of their costs. The alternative is price controls and I shudder at the thought of ensuing shortages... but thinking back on it, that's exactly what Medicare and Medicaid are. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 22 2010 10:29 L wrote: That's not what he's saying. He's saying that economic actors who have near monopolies on their abilities will charge whatever they can get away with and that simply isn't 'fair'. That's exactly the line of thinking behind the anti-monopolist thought that ran through the states at the time of the dissolution of standard oil and it worked out pretty well seeing as the period straight after became one of the best periods of economic growth ever seen on record. The only difference is that instead of having a monopoly, now we have oligopolies and cartels. Even the libertarian train of thought and their attacks against the AMA, for instance, share in that core belief. But wow, its impressive that you'd ignore his points to that extent. Given your track record in debates its not surprising that you'd do it; The magnitude in this instance, however, is impressive. Sorry to drag this back out since I missed it yesterday. Looks like L still loves to get a shot in. All in good fun right? Anyways, the other possibility is that Kwark doesn't like price theory or the idea of supply and demand. Yet, to attack that should not have been to pose a scenario where Bankers and Builder be forced to live without division of labor. Although, rejecting price theory wouldn't surprise me. It's a good way to belittle or inflate people's contributions to society by slapping a fixed and arbitrary value on various types of labor. When it manifests itself in price controls... well, there have been many experiments in price controls all down the ages. The possibilities are there for all to see. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On March 23 2010 14:05 Undisputed- wrote: The US had the best healthcare system in the world bar none. It's not perfect, but there is no where else I'd rather live. A government that can give you everything you want, can also take everything you have. I think this is the basic argument against socialism. Power corrupts. I have faith that democrats will get clobbered this November. Especially in the manner they passed this. Americans will not stand by while this country is destroyed. The only bipartisan part of this bill was the opposition to it. Not that it really matters if democrats voted against it, all of them are far left of center, "blue dog" or not they all answer the liberal call, I hope all of them lose their seats. *Yawn* I've lost count of how many ways Obama is destroying the country. If someone could make a list, that would be great. What are you going to say when someone is actually destroying the country? With bombs. No one will believe you. Teabagger who cried apocalypse. | ||
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