EPTRecord labels use the veil of morality, ethics, legality, etc. to hide the exorbitant cash cow they have. There is no moral / legal solution because someone will always be unhappy. Personally, I would just prefer it be the record industry who suffers.
Student fined $675K for 30 music track downloads - Page 12
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gjg.instinct
144 Posts
Record labels use the veil of morality, ethics, legality, etc. to hide the exorbitant cash cow they have. There is no moral / legal solution because someone will always be unhappy. Personally, I would just prefer it be the record industry who suffers. | ||
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:07 gjg.instinct wrote: Piracy is not a danger to music. It's a danger to the record industry. Anyone who is passionate about making music and being an artist can do so, regardless of piracy. Some of the best artists I have ever heard are relatively unknown, and some who are extremely well-known are some of the worst. Record labels use the veil of morality, ethics, legality, etc. to hide the exorbitant cash cow they have. There is no moral / legal solution because someone will always be unhappy. Personally, I would just prefer it be the record industry who suffers. Records labels do use morality, ethics, and legality, "etc" because its exactly what you're exploiting by downloading illegal songs. Yes piracy is a danger to the record company. Anyone who is an artist can make music without a record label. This is all true. But they do use record labels, and they are under contracts and make big money with them. And if youre stealing from the record company, you're stealing from them and the artists. Don't try to confuse the creation of great music with the act of stealing a song owned and distributed by a company. "The is no moral solution because someone will always be unhappy." The unhappy person is what? the guy who wants to steal thousands of dollars worth of music and without it being legal? I want a billion dollars and I am unhappy I dont have it, but it is not a "moral solution"(?) for me to steal a billion dollars. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Rule#2: Don't download popular trash music owned by huge corporations This is fucking ridiculous, can't wait until the day where these rules and laws are finally over with. (I expect it to be at least 20 years off, when the children of today who have known really nothing other than downloading music, and the young adults of now take over those industries) | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke. And he does of course. http://www.ram.org/ramblings/philosophy/fmp/albini.html Read it, very relevant. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:02 Medzo wrote: Your assumptions arent too bad except you seem to think that recording a song is the same as creating a record. Unless you plan to only sell digitally, its not the same. There is still a LARGE LARGE LARGE LARGE LARGE market for CDs and even records. Record companies are far from obsolete, for now. You are exaggerating big time. The CD market has plummeted for a reason that has everything to do with the internet. CD's are generally totally obsolete and the only people that buy records are collectors. Don't pretend otherwise. | ||
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MaZza[KIS]
Australia2110 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:13 Medzo wrote: Records labels do use morality, ethics, and legality, "etc" because its exactly what you're exploiting by downloading illegal songs. Yes piracy is a danger to the record company. Anyone who is an artist can make music without a record label. This is all true. But they do use record labels, and they are under contracts and make big money with them. And if youre stealing from the record company, you're stealing from them and the artists. Don't try to confuse the creation of great music with the act of stealing a song owned and distributed by a company. "The is no moral solution because someone will always be unhappy." The unhappy person is what? the guy who wants to steal thousands of dollars worth of music and without it being legal? I want a billion dollars and I am unhappy I dont have it, but it is not a "moral solution"(?) for me to steal a billion dollars. I've though about this argument over and over again and it has re-appeared SEVERAL times on TL.net. The person that you quoted has said something very true and I'm pretty sure you'll be surprised to know that RECORD COMPANIES DON'T PAY YOU SH*T. They give you a "record deal". That means they pay you an upfront amount to make music for the label. For most artists (if they're already good) this is like $1m - $2m. We're not talking Beyonce or Rhianna or any SUPER star. We're talking your average up and coming musician. The Veronicas, for example, (Australia's hottest and most promising pop act) were signed for a sh*tty $1m. With that you may get royalty per cd sold or every time your song is played on the radio but Record Labels and Publishing companies usually take a FAIR chunk of this. So, how does an artist make money? TOURING. Why do you think Madonna is so super rich? Coz she tours almost every year and does every bloody city in the world. The woman is almost half a billion dollars worth! So, what do you need to become a succesful touring artist? YOU NEED GOOD PROMOTION. ---> That's what the record labels and publishing companies are. PROMOTERS. They add NOTHING to music. They're Don King pimping you for your next fight and dumping you when you lose. In the day and age of the internet where distribution and communication is THE EASIEST THING POSSIBLE artists should start looking at differetn modes of business. Instead of having someone pimp you WHY NOT GIVE YOUR ALBUM OUT FOR FREE ala NIN?!?! Think about it, all you really need is publicity and if people like your songs you're gonna make money anyways from touring/concerts! To the individual artist I REALLY REALLY REALLY believe the current industry model is DYING OUT. You cant stop people from pirating, all you can do is think of a new, better business model to promote yourself.... and this scares record labels because they KNOW they're not gonna make money from record sales any more. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ARTISTS. This is about the record labels. Most artist don't give a flying f*ck if their songs are on youtube or being pirated. If you told them their song got 40 million hits on youtube they'd be pleased, because hey, ching ching ching ching lots of people like me = lots of tickets sold at concerts = MONEY MONEY MONEY. In the end that's what it comes down to... TIME FOR A NEW BUSINESS MODEL!!!!! | ||
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Medzo
United States627 Posts
On August 04 2009 08:01 Jayme wrote: You are exaggerating big time. The CD market has plummeted for a reason that has everything to do with the internet. CD's are generally totally obsolete and the only people that buy records are collectors. Don't pretend otherwise. Not pretending here. CDs and records still bring in some very large $$$ in revenue. I didnt say they havent fallen. Doesnt mean there isnt a mutli million dollar market around. Also people who are into music still buy records, they have a different tone and if you're passionate about music you might enjoy them (I do). Also im am not trying to say that artists make most of the money off CD sales. I never have said this. They DO make money, and a good bit of it, and they also benefit A LOT and make money because of the fact that they have these record companies partnering with them. Record companies make records and CDs. They have a right to protect their music and sue. You do not have a right to steal it. The justifications im hearing are bullshit and most of them have extremely little understanding of how marketing works. The most common justification is that record companies don't make good music, the artists do. But it is the artists that benefit from these record companies and make good music with the services and revenue they provide for them. If you cant see this, just wake up and realise that if they didnt benefit from them, they would not need record deals. A company that makes CDs will profit the most of the sell of the CD, use some common sense. It doesn't mean that an artist wont make a shit ton of money from it too. 13% net profit is a lot of fucking money man. Imagine making an album 10 years ago and then you a very small amount (lets say 1000) CDs are purchased this month for just $10 each. And $2 is net profit. Congrats you just made $260 in a month for something you did 10 fucking years ago, and you did no work creating anything physical at all in the present. You have no more risk, only return. And you can still benefit off the publicity you get from whatever record label that promotes you. And you can find opportunity having a record that is still selling 10 years later thanks to this record company. Now lets say you the artist decided to create these CDs yourself. Here you are 10 years later having to order material and physically create 1000 CDs then ship them and cover all of the material costs, then intangible costs like shipping or promoting, use marketing techniques to find an ideal retail price, have a lawyer on salary, use proper operational management models to estimate the demand of your own CD this month before it happens (or pay holding costs to store unnecessary CDs you created to meet demands as they come). This is like the very very basics of what a producing something would take. Or you can have another company take care of all that for you and pay you your royalty fee and help promote your own label and take on all the risks. You decide what is beneficial for an artist who has demand. EDIT: Scatter brain and math screw up. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On August 04 2009 08:01 MaZza[KIS] wrote: Please allow me to extrapolate and generalize your answer to every type of media content developer. Ranging from musicians to graph artists and programmers.So, how does an artist make money? TOURING. So, how does a content creator makes money without selling Intellectual Property? SERVICES Welcome to 2009. When independent creators are bigger and more powerful than ever. And record labels are so desperate to see their outdated business model die that they got to the point where they sue individuals hoping that spreading fear will slow down their inevitable disappearance. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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moon`
United States372 Posts
Besides, are they seriously going to sue teenagers for several $K? I highly doubt they'll make money, let alone compensate for legal fees. | ||
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Toxiferous
United States388 Posts
If theres a torrent up of their songs then they're probably already getting paid a shit load. Not to mention like said before, the only REAL incentive should be the passion for music, money is just a plus | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
PS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84844 | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 04 2009 07:47 CharlieMurphy wrote: Yeah man... like we'll never let a fucker like Nixon in office ever again man... things will be totally different man... everyone will just share their stuff man... we'll make sure there's never war again man.This is fucking ridiculous, can't wait until the day where these rules and laws are finally over with. (I expect it to be at least 20 years off, when the children of today who have known really nothing other than downloading music, and the young adults of now take over those industries) | ||
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eNoq
Netherlands502 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 03 2009 17:17 JohnColtrane wrote: selling music only cheapens and diminishes it. music should be free for everyone musicians that truly enjoy making music release it for free in their spare time, rather than charging people and making a job out of it. making great music and interacting with great musicians is the reward How retarded. Who the hell are you to say that other people's work should be free for everyone? If people want to charge for their work, they should be able to do it. You're asking people for a fucking forced charity. Why don't you donate your house to charity and the "reward" will be feeling good you helped a ton of people get fed? | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
On August 04 2009 21:18 FabledIntegral wrote: How retarded. Who the hell are you to say that other people's work should be free for everyone? If people want to charge for their work, they should be able to do it. You're asking people for a fucking forced charity. Why don't you donate your house to charity and the "reward" will be feeling good you helped a ton of people get fed? You didn't steal anything from the musician, you played your own very accurate cover of their song. Your instrument was a program and your notes were ones and zeros rather than vibrations in the air but you took nothing from him. Previously you didn't have the song, your computer created the song, you made a cover of it for personal use. It's the same principle as taking a photo of a painting, you haven't stolen the painting, you've used your own equipment to do your own picture which bares the likeness of the original. Until you start selling it you've not stolen a thing. The difference between recording a cover of a song you like with a musical instrument and with a program is negligible. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17544 Posts
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On August 03 2009 17:44 Foucault wrote: Let's have some fun this thread is sick I wanna take a ride on your hydralisk Actually a lot of songs revolve around clever catch phrases and a nifty chorus. hahahaa, I couldn't stop laughing at that first line. I presume the $675k fine was meant to represent not only the value of the music stolen, but also the loss of profit assumed from his sharing as well as the criminality of his actions? | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
On August 04 2009 21:44 Manit0u wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGXavXZwRcg This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Also there is the argument that a small artist who is very much in need of money will greatly benefit the sharing of music online. It gives him an audience and a medium to reach people without being in the position to do so through TV and CDs. He can use the online sharing attitude and bring himself to the next level. On the other hand the multi-millionaires of the music industry might be losing money but at the same time they are making millions by filling stadiums. | ||
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