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Whale Wars - Page 3

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Vex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Ireland454 Posts
June 30 2009 15:02 GMT
#41
On June 26 2009 17:26 ArvickHero wrote:
I thought the thread heading was going to be a clever name about a show that stars a bunch of fat people fighting each other


+1
"Bonjwa" is the most retarded word ever. Wtf does it even sound like.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10446 Posts
June 30 2009 15:22 GMT
#42
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.
gameguard
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Korea (South)2131 Posts
June 30 2009 15:30 GMT
#43
On June 25 2009 16:38 esla_sol wrote:
though not about whales, brad stine (comedian) has some good stuff to say about animal rights activism.



lol that bit about the bugs really cracked me up
Ethenielle
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Norway1006 Posts
June 30 2009 15:37 GMT
#44
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


LOL. Yes, why should you care. If you have that attitude, you can really just ask that question about anything not directly influencing you.

About the topic, I think that's a pretty retarded way of going about it.. but then again I also think whalers are pretty retarded, so it evens out I guess? -_-;;
Theres a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
June 30 2009 15:40 GMT
#45
On July 01 2009 00:22 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.


I don't understand why whales are being put up on a higher pedestal than other animals. There are smarter, cuter and more useful animals out there if we really want to be cynical about it.

Not that I endorse whaling, but I don't see the issue with hunting whales when we are hunting other animals as long as they aren't endangered. The sort of whale those Japanese whalers seem to hunt isn't endangered though.
starcraftomatic
Profile Joined March 2009
United States46 Posts
June 30 2009 15:56 GMT
#46
Captain Paul Watson was kicked out of Greenpeace for being an arrogant eco-terrorist and he's continued his sludge of stupidity and unbridled war against whatever he hates for over 20 years now. If you watch the show you'll notice he routinely puts his volunteers live's at risk for the sake of nothing, for example: pushing the ship through the heavy arctic ice pack when the ship has a ice hull rating of 0 (it basically cannot handle ANY form of ice).

His turnover rate is probably 99% except for 2 or 3 mainstays, because the volunteers go out for one mission and come back fearing they could of died out there. Most of the time, they argue about petty navigational problems or technical issues. The time they actual spend engaged with a whaling vessel is probably less than 1% of their total time--going by the TV show. People get hurt constantly because the captain could give a care less about the safety of his crew.

And about the whales: The only comfortable way to combat whaling by those Japanese ships is to politically fight it (I can guarantee fighting it politically is a lot more wholesome than spending 99% of your time hurting your crew and endangering lives).

To Mr. Philosophical "I don't need whales, why should I care?" well you're exactly right. Given that your attitude is basically "I want what I want and everything else doesn't matter." Exactly fits your idea on the whales.
To die with valor in war is to die a hero. Make haste and fight your enemy with fierce resolve until you can no longer.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10446 Posts
June 30 2009 16:02 GMT
#47
On July 01 2009 00:40 Eury wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2009 00:22 BlackJack wrote:
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.


I don't understand why whales are being put up on a higher pedestal than other animals. There are smarter, cuter and more useful animals out there if we really want to be cynical about it.

Not that I endorse whaling, but I don't see the issue with hunting whales when we are hunting other animals as long as they aren't endangered. The sort of whale those Japanese whalers seem to hunt isn't endangered though.


Pretty much all sea animals that are fished for food are protected to make sure they don't become endangered. Tuna, Salmon, Crab, Lobster, etc. In this instance, whales are not on a higher pedestal.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17244 Posts
June 30 2009 16:35 GMT
#48
On July 01 2009 00:56 starcraftomatic wrote:
To Mr. Philosophical "I don't need whales, why should I care?" well you're exactly right. Given that your attitude is basically "I want what I want and everything else doesn't matter." Exactly fits your idea on the whales.


It is a valid question, found even in the books about ecology. Is it really worthwile (not even counting costs) protecting/saving something most people don't care about/don't even know it exists (like the last tree of wild coffe - which until recently was thought extinct, until one student in Australia I think, said that his grandma has one in her backyard, or some single palm tree left)?
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32049 Posts
June 30 2009 16:45 GMT
#49
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


There's a whole thing called an ecosystem you fucking nitwit.

That being said, these people are fucking jerkoffs on both sides of the argument. The Japanese are going to make certain species go extinct with overfishing, and these assholes are going about this defense of the whales in an absolutely horrible way.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
starcraftomatic
Profile Joined March 2009
United States46 Posts
June 30 2009 17:01 GMT
#50
reply to: Manit0u

I'm going to critique your reply, because it's wrong. First a "valid question" would pertain to validity, that is; well grounded in logic or truth. Your support is that it is found in nameless books about ecology. Firstly, ecology is: the environment as it relates to living organisms, so an ecology book would bring questions like "is it worthwhile to care about x, y and z" as a starting point to their arguments. They are not simply stating "it is or isn't worthwhile" they are making a case for their own biases found within said book. Secondly, are those claims well grounded in logic or truth: the answer is, no they are not. Being opinionated about either liking the world around you or not giving a shit does not make you into a great philosopher. Now your claim should be, "is it really worth it to give a damn about things I don't care about?" sounds like a much more VALID claim, concerning that it relates to your personal feelings and is logically grounded from your own information, see?

The simple facts (that is information outside of the stupidity of this all) is that we are organisms part of an ecosystem (a system formed by the interaction of a community of organisms with their physical environment), living and breathing in the same place as others. It is an ethical or moral question whether to "give a damn." Some people though are so blinded by their own selfish ambition that nothing else takes any precedence over it.

To die with valor in war is to die a hero. Make haste and fight your enemy with fierce resolve until you can no longer.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17244 Posts
June 30 2009 17:12 GMT
#51
I'm not hiding that I'm biased. But it's not that I don't give a damn about everything (I even give money for shelters for homeless dogs, lol), there's just stuff that's more important than others and that should be focused on in the first place.

By the way, really good book for those into this stuff (not very scientific but still great):

http://sciencetechbooks.suite101.com/article.cfm/last_chance_to_see_revisited
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Gogleion
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States534 Posts
June 30 2009 17:22 GMT
#52
On June 25 2009 17:23 The Storyteller wrote:
This is the wrong way to go about things entirely. There has been a sustained campaign against hunting sharks, but it isn't done through piracy and a bunch of morons acting like terrorists. Since many sharks are hunted because of the enormous demand for their fins by the newly wealthy Chinese, the campaign works by educating the Chinese and encouraging them not to eat sharks' fin. And it works.

Great point, I think that there is no way that the Sea Shepard has nearly enough resources to battle with the Japanese whaling fleet, no matter how many donations they receive. All that the Sea Shepard can do is stop the Japanese for a little while, but they aren't changing the culture that drives the whaling industry.
EffOrt. That is all.
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
June 30 2009 18:12 GMT
#53
On July 01 2009 01:02 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2009 00:40 Eury wrote:
On July 01 2009 00:22 BlackJack wrote:
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.


I don't understand why whales are being put up on a higher pedestal than other animals. There are smarter, cuter and more useful animals out there if we really want to be cynical about it.

Not that I endorse whaling, but I don't see the issue with hunting whales when we are hunting other animals as long as they aren't endangered. The sort of whale those Japanese whalers seem to hunt isn't endangered though.


Pretty much all sea animals that are fished for food are protected to make sure they don't become endangered. Tuna, Salmon, Crab, Lobster, etc. In this instance, whales are not on a higher pedestal.


Over fishing is a big issue but I don't see that being the issue here. The Japanese are killing 800 per year of a particular whale that have a population over 500 000.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 18:14:53
June 30 2009 18:14 GMT
#54
On June 27 2009 11:38 Lefnui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2009 16:47 Jonoman92 wrote:
On June 25 2009 16:38 esla_sol wrote:
though not about whales, brad stine (comedian) has some good stuff to say about animal rights activism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfXu9V9ggoU


Wow I ended up watching that whole thing. It was really good, thanks for posting it.


You're both complete idiots if you enjoyed even a moment of that garbage. That's Brad Stine, perhaps the least talented comedian around. He endlessly complains about how Christians are persecuted in the United States, even though they're the massive majority. He seems to think being a conservative Christian is what has kept him from fame, when in fact it's simply that the liberal atheists are far more clever and funny.

This entire video is him arguing against a straw man. Very few people claim that animals are equal to humans and deserve to be treated as such. That view is of a tiny, insignificant minority. However, there are many who believe we should treat animals with kindness instead of viewing them as entities solely for our use. He speaks of how a lion or a whale would devour a human if given the chance, he somehow thinks that's an actual argument for how we should treat them. Shouldn't we be held to a slightly higher standard than that? I don't derive my sense of justice and morality from lions, but clearly this fool does. It's comical how he goes on and on about how much more logical and intelligent we are than animals but fails to see that we should think differently for that very reason.



There's another video of this ignorant moron exhibiting his stupidity. Firstly, he seems to take great pride from the fact that "we" invented basketball. "We" didn't, a Canadian did while in the United States. Then he falsely claims that the world plays American football, which couldn't be less true. No other country accepted American football, it has been a complete disaster internationally. The NFL pumped a large sum of money into the development of the sport in Europe, Europe said "No thanks, we'll keep our football". He acts as if soccer has been a failure when it's the most massively popular sport of all time. Go to almost any country and football will be played there by everyone, you'll be lucky if you even see an American football. Like any far right wing fool, he attacks France with ridiculous cliches. He panders to hicks, no one should take him seriously. You should never quote this person on any issue, especially animal rights.

If you want to see a comedian with sharp, insightful commentary then watch Bill Hicks, George Carlin or Bill Maher. Not this nobody.


Amen!
Even though I didn't know this Brad Stine before I 100% agree, the guy's reasoning is so freaking bad.
I wish Bill Hicks was still alive to kick this guy's ass
beep boop
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 30 2009 18:34 GMT
#55
On July 01 2009 01:45 Hawk wrote:
There's a whole thing called an ecosystem you fucking nitwit.


That's a bit overstated; would ecosystems suffer? Sure. Would it collapse? Probably not. Does it mean we can overfish as we wish? No. Does it mean the problem at hand is overestimated? Yes.
Get it by your hands...
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 30 2009 19:47 GMT
#56
I don't think anyone would argue that Whales are indeed part of an ecosystem that balances out are oceans and if they went extinct the oceans and ultimately all of us would feel the affects.

Every human being has a biological need that must be constantly met - oxygen. And 70% of the oxygen added to the atmosphere each year comes from plankton in the sea. Serious damage to the world ocean therefore could endanger the entire atmosphere of the earth. During the last two decades (1950's and 60's) man has killed so many of the large whales that four species of whale have been reduced from a total of several million to just a few thousand.

Every one of these vanished millions of whales used to consume several hundred tons of a large species of zooplankton a year. That plankton now is undergoing a classic population explosion for want of a predator. What will be the effect on the oxygen-producing smaller plankton of the world ocean? What will be the effect on the colour and reflectivity of the oceans? What will be the effect on the average water temperature of the oceans, on its dissolved oxygen content and subsequently on the earth's atmosphere? No one knows.

Climatologists know any significant change in ocean temperature can have profound effects on the earth's climates. By killing off the whales of the world man is playing Russian roulette with the earth's primary support system.
Source(s):
www.whales.org.au
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
June 30 2009 19:47 GMT
#57
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


That must be quite some university.

That is not a serious question, it's totally ridiculous. By the same logic I could kill a stranger. I don't know the person, I don't ever see them, I will never see them again. Their existence makes no difference to my life at all so why should I care if they die?

Unlike you I understand that living organisms shouldn't be judged on the basis of whether or not they provide any entertainment or use for myself. That is a terribly arrogant and selfish view to take. A whale that I will never see or even know of has value, as does a stranger who is unknown to me.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10446 Posts
June 30 2009 20:30 GMT
#58
On July 01 2009 03:12 Eury wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2009 01:02 BlackJack wrote:
On July 01 2009 00:40 Eury wrote:
On July 01 2009 00:22 BlackJack wrote:
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.


I don't understand why whales are being put up on a higher pedestal than other animals. There are smarter, cuter and more useful animals out there if we really want to be cynical about it.

Not that I endorse whaling, but I don't see the issue with hunting whales when we are hunting other animals as long as they aren't endangered. The sort of whale those Japanese whalers seem to hunt isn't endangered though.


Pretty much all sea animals that are fished for food are protected to make sure they don't become endangered. Tuna, Salmon, Crab, Lobster, etc. In this instance, whales are not on a higher pedestal.


Over fishing is a big issue but I don't see that being the issue here. The Japanese are killing 800 per year of a particular whale that have a population over 500 000.


True, however commercial whaling is also illegal. If whaling was allowed, I'm sure it may be a bigger issue considering how many species we've already made endangered. It's probably a lot harder to regulate if you excuse the behavior of the Japanese by saying 'well a few hundred whales isn't going to make a difference.' Then everyone is going to want in on the industry.
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
June 30 2009 20:32 GMT
#59
This show seems great, and I'm going to start following it on TV. I really want to see ships ramming each other :D
Eury
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden1126 Posts
June 30 2009 20:37 GMT
#60
On July 01 2009 05:30 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2009 03:12 Eury wrote:
On July 01 2009 01:02 BlackJack wrote:
On July 01 2009 00:40 Eury wrote:
On July 01 2009 00:22 BlackJack wrote:
On June 30 2009 23:43 Manit0u wrote:
On June 27 2009 12:31 Lefnui wrote:
whales on the other hand are being wiped out by humans alone.


And?

I don't need whales (and I'll probably never see one live). Why should I care?

(this is a serious question, we've even asked such at our philosphy classes at the univ)


Lots of people go "whale watching." I'd love to go whale watching. Whales are the largest animals that have ever existed on this planet.


I don't understand why whales are being put up on a higher pedestal than other animals. There are smarter, cuter and more useful animals out there if we really want to be cynical about it.

Not that I endorse whaling, but I don't see the issue with hunting whales when we are hunting other animals as long as they aren't endangered. The sort of whale those Japanese whalers seem to hunt isn't endangered though.


Pretty much all sea animals that are fished for food are protected to make sure they don't become endangered. Tuna, Salmon, Crab, Lobster, etc. In this instance, whales are not on a higher pedestal.


Over fishing is a big issue but I don't see that being the issue here. The Japanese are killing 800 per year of a particular whale that have a population over 500 000.


True, however commercial whaling is also illegal. If whaling was allowed, I'm sure it may be a bigger issue considering how many species we've already made endangered. It's probably a lot harder to regulate if you excuse the behavior of the Japanese by saying 'well a few hundred whales isn't going to make a difference.' Then everyone is going to want in on the industry.


Well, International Whaling Commission have made commercial whaling illegal, but if some country doesn't agree with that they can just leave the commission. Japan is still a member though but they are using a loophole that says you can whale for research. In other words what the Japanese are doing isn't illegal even though everyone pretty much know that they are whaling for commercial reasons and not scientific ones.

I think Norway and Iceland have left IWC, and they haven't put up any kind of self imposed quota for their whaling at all, unlike the Japanese.
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