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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
They found blood in my urinie, and said it is most likely kidney stones, I have no insurance....so they couldn't do a catscan or an ultrasound to find out how big they are, or where they were. I was told to just drink a lot of water, and take some vicodin for the pain. Does anyone else have any suggestions, or experiences with this? I'm missing a lot of time at work, that I can't really afford and the pain is really unpredictable...so it's hard to actually do anything. :-( | ||
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Ziph
Netherlands970 Posts
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Alpine
United States86 Posts
I have heard all you can do is flood yourself with fluids and gradually let it erode till its small enough to pass. Take the vicodin like they said. Maybe drink a lot of true cranberry juice (not the cocktail shit), that cleans the surface of the urinary tract which might lessen the pain of something large moving through it. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
Oh, also; You're fucked | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
I just really really hope they're smaller then 5mm so I can pass them on my own. Just wish I knew how long it would take. :-( | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
kidney stones are usually operated, but you can try some other things. Get some literature, esp on "non-traditional" medicine, i remember they had few ideas on how to get rid of those involving olive oil and lemon juice or something like that, it could be pretty painful im sure they could have prescribed you some medications to begin with, not just vicodin and water LOL this country never ceased to amaze me | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
( ) drink more fluids (2.5 to 3 liters a day according to a random website) ( ) exercise a lot ( ) eat less protein ( ) don't donate a kidney ( ) luck | ||
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Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
I doubt you'll be feeling any better until the same thing happens. Apparently you kidney stones are trying to get out of your system but got lodged in the ureter. But yea, drink alot of water and urinate alot. It should eventually come out. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
Week 1: Wierd sensation in my low back, first sign of kidney stones Week 2: Huge and unbearable pain in my lower back, this is when dilaudid(vicodin in your case) is required. If I had a gun, I would have shot myself a couples times for sure. It usually last 1 or 2 days. Week 3: My urine burns, it hurts, and sometimes you have the impression something is gonna come out but stay that way End of Week 4: It usually comes out. You'll be peeing like every other time, except it'll stop peeing without warning. That means the stone is passing through the canals. You'll likely lack fluid to piss it one shot, so it'll get stuck in your canal, hurting every move while you wait. At that point you need to drink glass of water 1 after the other to produces fluid. You wait 45 mins, make sure you've got enough liquid, and then piss again. It'll pass and the pain goes IMMEDIATELY away. Personally, this is a lot more uncomfortable but a lot less painful then the lower back pain the first 2 weeks. Also, you might want to consider taking a piss everytime before taking your car, taking the bus or knowing you'll be stuck in some kind of traffic. Even if you know you haven't drank shit, you often get the feeling like your balls are gonna blow out because they need to piss. I remember dropping out of the bus 3-4km earlier just to piss outside and having only 2 drop & then having to walk home. You'll feel a lot safer knowing you pee'd before and that it's impossible your gonna piss your pants in the bus. | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:54 Rhaegar99 wrote: I had this shit before. Put up with it for one whole day until I went to the hospital. The doctors there didn't know what was wrong until they applied pressure on my kidneys before they realised I had a kidney stone. They did that for a while and it hurts like fuck. After that, the next time I went to the toilet, I urinated blood and some solid stuff out and after that I was all fine. I doubt you'll be feeling any better until the same thing happens. Apparently you kidney stones are trying to get out of your system but got lodged in the ureter. But yea, drink alot of water and urinate alot. It should eventually come out. often times they just dont? if it was as easy as your case no one would even worry about it | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
I just really really hope they're smaller then 5mm so I can pass them on my own. Just wish I knew how long it would take. :-( | ||
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Wurzelbrumpft
Germany471 Posts
im sorry for you, i know how it hurts  | ||
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Xiberia
Sweden634 Posts
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pangshai
Chinatown5333 Posts
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
I then walked around in my room for about 2 hours, cursing, holding my back, taking another hot shower. At some point I gathered all my strenght and tried to walk to the doctor. I was almost crawling, panting, I must have looked like I'm about to die. That's how I felt too. I was in so much pain and my muscles had cramped up so much I had to walk like a hunchback, and shivers went through my body all the time. Anyway, at the doctor's I talked to the receptionist and then fainted. I was gone for like about 20seconds I was told. After that I got a painkiller cocktail and it seriously was the most relieving moment in my life. I just can't describe that feeling. It's like an orgasm after 300 days of no sex - multiplied by 100. Wow it was so great. In the end I was told the same thing you were told, drink a lot, pee a lot. I was also told to drink wheat beer, because it helps with the urinating. So I did that for the next 3 days, and eventually it went away. Had to take lots of painkillers during that time though. Good luck to you! | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
However, I'm thinking of going on a lemonade vitamin water regiment...I heard that citric acid helps break down the calcium of the kidney stones a bit. Whatcha think? That or, just a slice of lemon in my water? | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
also, gl | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
9:00 AM, April 26, 2009 Rarely do health experts admit that drinking soda may be good for you. Here's an exception: People who are prone to kidney stones may develop fewer stones by drinking diet soda. Dietsoda The body needs to maintain a proper alkaline pH balance for healthy functioning. Increased alkalinity is known to be a factor in the development of kidney stones. A study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Urology Assn. meeting in Linthicum, Md., examined 15 popular diet sodas for their citrate and malate content, substances in soda that may help dissolve kidney stones. They found the sodas probably have enough of these substances to inhibit the formation of calcium stones. The researchers, from UC San Francisco, said Diet Sunkist Orange contained the greatest amount of total alkali and Diet 7-Up had the greatest amount of citrate alkali. Of course, this doesn't give kidney stone sufferers a license to drink up. Kidney stones may be caused, in part, by dehydration, and people with recurring stones are advised to drink a lot of water. "This study by no means suggests that patients with recurrent kidney stones should trade in their water bottles for soda cans," said Dr. Anthony Y. Smith, a spokesman for the American Urological Assn., in a news release. "However, this study suggests instead that patients with stone disease who do not drink soda may benefit from moderate consumption." Source: LA Times | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
Yeah, this thread kinda fuckin' scares me too....especially with no insurance. ;-(( | ||
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uglymoose89
United States671 Posts
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
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uglymoose89
United States671 Posts
On May 01 2009 02:55 SuBlue wrote: Nah, I work full time in a tech support call center, but I have too many bills that I couldn't afford to have the 60 bucks come out of my paycheck. :-\ Sorry to hear that. All you can do now is drink a lot of water and take some pain pills. Have you considered going to a county hospital where people w/o insurance go for treatment. I know the lines are killer but you may be able to get some sort of treatment there. :/ I dunno what else you can do. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
it will make you a man | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:00 uglymoose89 wrote: Sorry to hear that. All you can do now is drink a lot of water and take some pain pills. Have you considered going to a county hospital where people w/o insurance go for treatment. I know the lines are killer but you may be able to get some sort of treatment there. :/ I dunno what else you can do. He doesn't need treatments. The best thing to do is just to change your diet to make sure it doesn't come back. For now just drink water and take your vicodin. It will hurt, but it will pass. Here, everything is covered by our national health care and they that's exactly what they tell me. You'd just be spending the extra bucks for a useless travel. | ||
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Tyrant
Korea (South)234 Posts
On May 01 2009 02:39 VIB wrote: Do it like Michael Moore did and get a boat to Cuba to get some decent treatment Or learn how to manage your budget and get some insurance... oh wait, that means being responsible! Diet is believed to be less of a factor than heredity unless you're consuming large quantity of oxalates in which case you should stop if you are... no rhubarb pie for you~ | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
On May 01 2009 02:52 SuBlue wrote: You have them to XoXiDe? Yeah, this thread kinda fuckin' scares me too....especially with no insurance. ;-(( no luckily I don't have them and I dont' know any of my immediate family who has had them, but i don't have insurance either and i think it best to take the necessary steps to avoid kidney stones. i do exercise a lot but i think i can still drink more water than what i do, usually i take a water bottle with me to school to drink in class and drink at home fairly often. but yes, scariest thread ever. | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
I drink about 64oz of soda a day, I eat maybe 1 meal, if that...and when I do eat, its just pure shit, pizza, fast food, doritos etc. I smoke maybe 10-12 cigs a day too. I never drink water, and I'm only 22. Having this happen, I'm going to start eating right, exercising and taking care of my body. Not gonna stop smoking though! :p | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:08 SuBlue wrote: Yeah, I got it because of my diet I think. I drink about 64oz of soda a day, I eat maybe 1 meal, if that...and when I do eat, its just pure shit, pizza, fast food, doritos etc. I smoke maybe 10-12 cigs a day too. I never drink water, and I'm only 22. Having this happen, I'm going to start eating right, exercising and taking care of my body. Not gonna stop smoking though! :p If your only 22, it's genetic for sure. You'll be stuck for it your whole life which means you just need to change your diet after you pee'd this demon. Really, it's really not a problem, you just need to drink maybe 3-4 glass of water everyday. But since I hate water, I'd rather change my whole diet. | ||
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RA
Latvia791 Posts
Those stones don't appear out of nothing, those are most likely mineralized parts of different substances which you get inside you from eating different food. | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
I mean fuck, I'm 22...this shouldn't be happening for at least 10-15 years, and if its happening now...what will happen in 20 years from now? | ||
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uglymoose89
United States671 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:08 SuBlue wrote: Yeah, I got it because of my diet I think. I drink about 64oz of soda a day, I eat maybe 1 meal, if that...and when I do eat, its just pure shit, pizza, fast food, doritos etc. I smoke maybe 10-12 cigs a day too. I never drink water, and I'm only 22. Having this happen, I'm going to start eating right, exercising and taking care of my body. Not gonna stop smoking though! :p Wow with that diet i'm suprised you never got it earlier. Just try eating a salad once a day and you would be so much better. And drink propel/gatorade instead of all that soda. You can find some of the powder mixes at store for pretty cheap. Yea, GL to you. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
Try googling some "naturistic" treatments. Now, some have always been questioning here "how could the american medicare be bad"... this thread's your answer, wouldn't have happened in europe. | ||
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Tyrant
Korea (South)234 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:08 SuBlue wrote: Not gonna stop smoking though! :p Yea, why worry about the real problems when you can focus on your caloric intake and your sodium levels. I hear emphysema is way better than kidney stones--In 20 years can you let me know? Now, some have always been questioning here "how could the american medicare be bad"... this thread's your answer, wouldn't have happened in europe. Wouldn't have happened if he used his cigarette money for insurance either. Insurance isn't expensive. Medical in America isn't bad, it's the people who don't give a fuck about themselves that make it seem like it's bad. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:13 SuBlue wrote: Yeah, I've had about 3 glasses of water since I woke up, going to for sure change my diet and start being healthy, if anything, this is a wake up call for me. I mean fuck, I'm 22...this shouldn't be happening for at least 10-15 years, and if its happening now...what will happen in 20 years from now? It's got nothing to do with age. Had kidney stone when I was 4 years old  | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
On May 01 2009 02:49 XoXiDe wrote: this thread has completely terrified me of kidney stones me too :o | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
That's an incredibly messed up thought. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
So, ummm... good luck with that. Edit: haha inc. sniped. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I heard this is the male equivalent to pregnancy and is REALLY painful. Get some pain meds.. take care of yourself and good luck! | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:40 CubEdIn wrote: They say that the only pain worse than passing a kidney stone is natural birth. So, ummm... good luck with that. The pain in my lower back has always been 10x more hurtful. than the actual "evacuation" of the stone throughs my canals. And when I said I would have shot myself, I am serious about it. The last time it was hell. I get woken up: Back is hurting so I'm like... maybe it won't be too bad this time. 10 Minutes: Can barely walk... this is unusually fast, so I get my dilaudid that I kept home from my last "crisis" and pop 2mg. 15 Minutes: In pain and trying to lay on the bed so it doesn't hurt as much. 20 Minutes: Waiting for the pills to make their effect, still in pain and complaining. 25 Minutes: Start vomitting 30 Minutes: I feel a little better but I figured I puked out my dilaudid, so I pop another 2mg to make sure the pain goes away fast 35 Minutes: Start screaming in pain and vomited 2 times consecutively, hospital time 36 Minutes: Ambulance have a 4 hours responding time for Kidney Stone, not an urgent matter, WTF? From there I had to call my mother to grab me up. It's 3:00 pm. Stuck in the traffic trying to get to the hospital. A whole 30 minutes banging my head into the car saying I want to die. In front of my mother too, nice. As soon I got to the hospital they made me wait 45 minutes on the bed because the doctor was unavailable and they couldn't give me intraveinous pain meds. The whole 45 minutes I screamed banging my head against the wall and telling everybody I wanted to die and crying like a baby. And then... there was the pain meds. Didn't take 30 seconds and I was floating. Thanks god for hydromorphone. Longest 2 hours of my life prior to that though. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
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Pioneer
994 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:53 food wrote: they wont help you with this if you dont have insurance? ROFL im about to flee US anyways, this only adds to the pot kidney stones are usually operated, but you can try some other things. Get some literature, esp on "non-traditional" medicine, i remember they had few ideas on how to get rid of those involving olive oil and lemon juice or something like that, it could be pretty painful im sure they could have prescribed you some medications to begin with, not just vicodin and water LOL this country never ceased to amaze me Ok, no reason to be scared about kidney stones. Firstly don't listen to this guy, kidney stones aren't usually operated on. A couple people in my family frequently get kidney stones and they've always passed them and that's the case with most people. It's going to hurt like hell but you'll probably pass it. My grandmother gets them about every month or 2 months and she just drinks a lot of water. They suck but there's no reason to be scared. And if you're going to have to deal with the pain you might as well go to work. It'd be better making some money and be in pain rather than sitting at home at the computer, making no money & in pain. (depending on your job of course. If you sit at a desk I would say go but if you do like manual labor probably not). You're vomiting and crap? What the hell. I can understand it hurting enough to make you feel nauseated but that's kind of a lot. Are they sure it'd kidney stones btw? I had a kidney infection before and I had the same kind of pain in my back and felt sick occasionally. | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
Going to make working kind of hard, I work in a call center for tech support....so being drugged up on vicodin I'm sure will impair my ability to troubleshoot. :-\ | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:08 SuBlue wrote: Yeah, I got it because of my diet I think. I drink about 64oz of soda a day, I eat maybe 1 meal, if that...and when I do eat, its just pure shit, pizza, fast food, doritos etc. I smoke maybe 10-12 cigs a day too. I never drink water, and I'm only 22. Having this happen, I'm going to start eating right, exercising and taking care of my body. Not gonna stop smoking though! :p My diet wasn't that great about a year ago, but I started working out a lot because of my career path and really started eating healthy. My tips for you if you'd like to start eating healthier just from what has worked for me would be to not buy sodas, if you don't have them in your house or apartment you're not going to drink them as often. I usually limit myself to one junk food day a week. Also buy a water bottle and take it with you, trust me if you have it with you, you will get thirsty and you will drink it, plus you can fill up at a water fountain instead of having to spend a buck and waste a plastic dasani bottle. Buy good snacks like baby carrots, or healthy trail mix instead of oreos or whatever. Also, eat breakfast! oatmeal for sure is a healthy breakfast, make an omelet with onions & tomato or something. Everything else is obvious i guess, eat vegetables and more fruits, also stop smoking! :/ | ||
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Pioneer
994 Posts
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psion0011
Canada720 Posts
Imagine passing this instead of your smooth little grains: ![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/ae851s.jpg) | ||
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LuMiX
China5757 Posts
PS- That was my last exam of this semester. YAY! | ||
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ilistis
United States828 Posts
On May 01 2009 04:04 psion0011 wrote: If you didn't have that much pain while urinating out the stone, consider yourself lucky. Kidney stones vary WILDLY in size and shape (some can by sharp and spikey, others smooth) My friend's uncle compared it to getting shot in vietnam and said passing his kidney stone was considerably worse. The scene in the washroom after he was done was apparently like a murder scene - blood on the floor, walls, ceiling (!?), etc. Imagine passing this instead of your smooth little grains: That horrified me and made me laugh at the same time. | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
I just hope this gets resolved quickly, the back pain has not been very bad since the first time, and I stopped having weird shooting pains in my abdomen, so...Iunno what the situation is currently. | ||
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.watchtheskies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/karlpilkington.jpg) | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925 | ||
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SoulMarine
United States586 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Personally, I'm fine as long as I drink "enough" water, which basically translates to: I have to dirnk extra water whenever I'm sweating. If I do some exercise without drinking anything, or just not drink enough in general, then I go through the following stages: 1. I feel mild pain in my back, on one side. (doesn't always happen) 2. I feel sharp pain in my lower abdomen. 3. At this point I know what's wrong and I'm drinking a lot of water, or sometimes orange or lemon juice (the commercial kind). 4. The pain in my abdomen gradually subsides over a few hours. If I'm lucky, the symptoms start with a mild tingling in my lower abdomen, which might not be caused by a stone at all, but it gets me drinking water right away for fear of future pain, so it's good either way. As for what to consume when you have a stone, personally I've done fine with just water, but keep in mind that different kidney stone sufferers can have their stones caused by completely different things. In addition, I've never had a severe case before, so while water alone might be good enough for me, it might not be sufficient for someone with bigger stones. Furthermore, I drink a lot of milk and orange juice. I've heard claims that both of them can make kidney stones both better and worse, so I just say  -it, they're both good for me so I'm going to keep drinking them. But again, I wouldn't be surprised if some people's stones are directly caused by drinking too much milk or orange juice, so each person has to find what works for them. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 01 2009 03:54 Pioneer wrote: Ok, no reason to be scared about kidney stones. Firstly don't listen to this guy, kidney stones aren't usually operated on. A couple people in my family frequently get kidney stones and they've always passed them and that's the case with most people. It's going to hurt like hell but you'll probably pass it. My grandmother gets them about every month or 2 months and she just drinks a lot of water. They suck but there's no reason to be scared. And if you're going to have to deal with the pain you might as well go to work. It'd be better making some money and be in pain rather than sitting at home at the computer, making no money & in pain. (depending on your job of course. If you sit at a desk I would say go but if you do like manual labor probably not). You're vomiting and crap? What the hell. I can understand it hurting enough to make you feel nauseated but that's kind of a lot. Are they sure it'd kidney stones btw? I had a kidney infection before and I had the same kind of pain in my back and felt sick occasionally. On May 01 2009 04:01 Pioneer wrote: That's a bit to much for kidney stones, I don't know the ins and out of how the insurance thing works but could your parents possibly put you on their insurance until you can get this whole situation worked out? Blood in the urine and the amount of pain + vomiting seems way different than kidney stones. I'm not a doctor nor very knowledgeable about this stuff but it seems a lot like when I had my kidney infection. Have you tried drinking any cranberry juice? That seemed to help me a lot and it's supposed to be good for flushing your kidneys. You don't know a lot about it, do you? To say something like "don't listen to this guy" you need to at least do some research first. If your relatives had it easy then everyone else will be OK too? There is a number of methods they use to remove stones if they can't pass, and huge amount of large stones will never come out without surgeon breaking them up. If a stone does not pass for a period of time it can cause different complications. A friend of mine had this problem and had to undergo a surgery, she was about 23 yrs old at the time. Also you know nothing about symptoms, it definitely can cause blood in your urine and everything he spoke about. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 01 2009 06:41 food wrote: You don't know a lot about it, do you? To say something like "don't listen to this guy" you need to at least do some research first. If your relatives had it easy then everyone else will be OK too? There is a number of methods they use to remove stones if they can't pass, and huge amount of large stones will never come out without surgeon breaking them up. If a stone does not pass for a period of time it can cause different complications. A friend of mine had this problem and had to undergo a surgery, she was about 23 yrs old at the time. Also you know nothing about symptoms, it definitely can cause blood in your urine and everything he spoke about. I bolded the bullshit. A stone can stay in your kidney indefinately without a problem. It's only when it is obstructing that it becomes a problem. Sign of obstruction? 1) Urine not coming out 2) Fever Now, it is possible a surgeon had to operate, but it's coming less and less common with the new methods (shockwave, pills) and they usually do this when it's absolutely necessary, which is rarely the case. Your right about a few things though. Operation is still used and likely more encouraged in countries where health care isn't free. Blood in urine is also a VERY common symptom of kidney stones. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On May 01 2009 06:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Go to the ER they can't turn you away. unless he's fucking loaded; this is pretty bad advice. | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:50 Alpine wrote: If you have no insurance, how did they do any tests on your urine? I have heard all you can do is flood yourself with fluids and gradually let it erode till its small enough to pass. Take the vicodin like they said. Maybe drink a lot of true cranberry juice (not the cocktail shit), that cleans the surface of the urinary tract which might lessen the pain of something large moving through it. This. Does it hurt when you drain the lizard? | ||
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PaeZ
Mexico1627 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:43 SuBlue wrote: So, I woke up Tuesday morning in complete fucking agony...the lower right side of my back was in the most pain of my life, and it felt like I had really really bad gas. I fell back asleep, woke up at 12, felt fine and went to work. Was fine all day and all night, went to work and then at around 1, it all started up again...so I went to the doctor. They found blood in my urinie, and said it is most likely kidney stones, I have no insurance....so they couldn't do a catscan or an ultrasound to find out how big they are, or where they were. I was told to just drink a lot of water, and take some vicodin for the pain. Does anyone else have any suggestions, or experiences with this? I'm missing a lot of time at work, that I can't really afford and the pain is really unpredictable...so it's hard to actually do anything. :-( Yes you probably have kidney stones, but dude wtf? try to get money or something, that shit if left untreated can rape your kidneys so bad (if there is an obstruction).... also it can cause the ideal environment for an infection later on.. for now just do what the doctors told you. Also drink more water and DONT DRINK SODA... I REPEAT DO NOT DRINK SODA, studies have not confirmed that diet soda helps, and even if it does, it helps to PREVENT kidney stones from forming, doesnt do anything when formed.... IF you drink regular soda more than water everyday thats a risk factor for developing kidney stones... Check for symptoms of alarm that include. - Fever. - fewer urine or absolutly no urine at all. -Pain on the other side of your back (can mean there is an obstruction in the lower urinary tract system. -Any other systemic symptom like muscular or articular pain, headache, nausea, vomiting, asthenia etc. -IF you do urinate check the color and smell of your orine, also check if it hurts in your penis when you urinate, those are typical signs of infection (again a complication of kidney stones that cause hydronephosis. What i cannot understand is why you dont have an insurance if you work? i thought that a work insurance must be given to everyone working legally ? maybe im wrong :s Good luck! | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 01 2009 07:07 PadrinO wrote: I bolded the bullshit. A stone can stay in your kidney indefinately without a problem. It's only when it is obstructing that it becomes a problem. Sign of obstruction? 1) Urine not coming out 2) Fever Now, it is possible a surgeon had to operate, but it's coming less and less common with the new methods (shockwave, pills) and they usually do this when it's absolutely necessary, which is rarely the case. How is this bullshit when it does happen? It can stay in your kidney for sure if it's not causing trouble, but we are not talking about this case are we? Also I treated "shockwave" as an "operation", pills will most likely not help in severe cases. You would be surprised if you actually found out what the number of operations is yearly and how long you have to wait for one. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
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FirstProbe
1206 Posts
Kidney stones and renal colic are supposed to be amongst the most painful conditions. We treat them with NSAID's and paracetamol - which if I recall correctly, are similarly efficacious as opiods. Opiods may be necessary. Kidney stones, while sometimes painful continuously, are supposed to be worst in three phases. 1. passing through the pelvis of the kidney 2. over the iliac vessels 3. at the junction of uretovesical junction Some stones will pass, others won't. Long term obstruction can lead to hydronephrosis and predispose to urinary tract infections. CT KUB has become a favoured tool for assessment, though a plain film KUB may be able to detect the stone alone (not as sensitive). USS is an option though is not as sensitive as CT in detection (though may provide other useful information). Confirming the diagnosis isn't always necessary as it may not change management. One medication that may possibly help passage of a kidney stone is an alpha blocker (such as doxazosin) - through its effect on relaxing ureteric smooth muscle tone and peristalsis. Beware of the first dose hypotensive effect, which can be quite profound. I forget exactly, but I believe NSAIDs may have some beneficial effect aside from analgesia, too. My standard cocktail is analgesics and possibly doxazosin. You can treat on the history alone though sometimes its nice to confirm the diagnosis. Failing that, or with other complications, it may be necessary to refer to a urologic specialist. | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On May 01 2009 07:38 Aphelion wrote: Not getting health insurance was pretty fucking stupid. Not everyone can afford health insurance. Its health or cable internet for starcraft dammit! | ||
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
On May 01 2009 13:00 SuBlue wrote: I think I passed one, it was really uneventful...went to take a piss, felt like something came out, wasn't really painful at all...but I felt something, and I looked down and there was this little brownish skin colored spikey thing. I nearly gagged from reading that | ||
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BC.WeaPonX
Canada107 Posts
Also if you're in a bad stone attack, try taking some epsom salts in water, about 1 tps per cup of water. This helps to open up the bile ducts and aids in passing stones. Now, if you want to prevent gallstone build up and avoid gallstone surgery, there are cleanses out there, most of them involve epsom salt ( Magnesium Sulphate) and olive oil as the aid to remove the stones. Search them and their results, many people swear by the cleanses. I my self have done it several times, I've never had a kidney stone and after each cleanse I feel better, energized and ready to fight off anything! | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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Pioneer
994 Posts
On May 01 2009 07:07 PadrinO wrote: I bolded the bullshit. A stone can stay in your kidney indefinately without a problem. It's only when it is obstructing that it becomes a problem. Sign of obstruction? 1) Urine not coming out 2) Fever Now, it is possible a surgeon had to operate, but it's coming less and less common with the new methods (shockwave, pills) and they usually do this when it's absolutely necessary, which is rarely the case. Your right about a few things though. Operation is still used and likely more encouraged in countries where health care isn't free. Blood in urine is also a VERY common symptom of kidney stones. Operating on kidney stones isn't as common as you made it out to be. And I never said I was the best source on it, read my subsequent posts. I had never heard of blood in urine but I remember having very similar symptoms when I had a kidney infection. That's why I suggested it might be that since the multiple family members that have had kidney stones have never mentioned blood in their urine except a little after the stone passed. Most kidney stones are passable without surgery, hell just the other my friends dad found out he had kidney stones and couldn't pass them without being broken up with something (not sure what it was) and they were supposedly larger than usual. Granted they had to shove something up his urethra but that's not the same as surgery. Maybe you're being a bit broad with what you consider surgery, I don't know but coming out and saying something along the lines of him needing surgery (I know that's not the exact wording but that's how it came across at least for me) is a bit over the top. i accidently quoted padrino too, my post was meant to be directed at food only. | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
i think i gagged a few times already i this thread. | ||
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 01 2009 13:00 SuBlue wrote: I think I passed one, it was really uneventful...went to take a piss, felt like something came out, wasn't really painful at all...but I felt something, and I looked down and there was this little brownish skin colored spikey thing. Yep that was it. As I said, smaller stones usually involve little pain when you urinate them. It's the lower back pain a few days before that's a lot worse. You might have gotten lucky though and it might have broken into several pieces. Your almost guaranteed that the rest of them will be small enough to pee them on your own. There's probably gonna be a couple more in the next few days. Keep drinking water! | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
On May 01 2009 04:04 psion0011 wrote: If you didn't have that much pain while urinating out the stone, consider yourself lucky. Kidney stones vary WILDLY in size and shape (some can by sharp and spikey, others smooth) My friend's uncle compared it to getting shot in vietnam and said passing his kidney stone was considerably worse. The scene in the washroom after he was done was apparently like a murder scene - blood on the floor, walls, ceiling (!?), etc. Imagine passing this instead of your smooth little grains: This is the most disturbing picture i have ever seen in my life. | ||
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Gumbo
Canada807 Posts
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bboyldy
Korea (North)664 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:50 Alpine wrote: If you have no insurance, how did they do any tests on your urine? I have heard all you can do is flood yourself with fluids and gradually let it erode till its small enough to pass. Take the vicodin like they said. Maybe drink a lot of true cranberry juice (not the cocktail shit), that cleans the surface of the urinary tract which might lessen the pain of something large moving through it. im pretty sure you need don't need to do a test to see that blood is in your urine. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
If an admin reads this 2 day temp ban plz | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On May 01 2009 14:06 bboyldy wrote: im pretty sure you need don't need to do a test to see that blood is in your urine. You do. They test for microscopic amounts that are caused by kidney stones and that are impossible for you to see yourself. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On May 01 2009 01:53 food wrote: they wont help you with this if you dont have insurance? ROFL im about to flee US anyways, this only adds to the pot gtfo they won't help him because he can't afford to pay the fees. he has to pay fees because it doesn't qualify for pro bono. the fees are high because he has no medical insurance. he has no medical insurance because... ? usually it means he is over 23 (no longer covered under his parent/guardian's plan) and doesn't have a job with benefits and he neglects to pay for it himself (full stand-alone PPO coverage with most carriers costs about 50-150 bucks/month for a single, young man). medical insurance is very cheap relative to the cost of medical services; one major accident or surgery and it pays for itself many times over. not to mention 5-30 dollar copays, and cheap prescriptions. walking around without medical insurance is really stupid and selfish. "hey society, catch me if i fall!" i don't know anybody who's never gotten sick. but no, you're right; we shouldn't be responsible for ourselves. that's obviously the government's duty. | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 01 2009 16:32 HeadBangaa wrote: gtfo they won't help him because he can't afford to pay the fees. he has to pay fees because it doesn't qualify for pro bono. the fees are high because he has no medical insurance. he has no medical insurance because... ? usually it means he is over 23 (no longer covered under his parent/guardian's plan) and doesn't have a job with benefits and he neglects to pay for it himself (full stand-alone PPO coverage with most carriers costs about 50-150 bucks/month for a single, young man). medical insurance is very cheap relative to the cost of medical services; one major accident or surgery and it pays for itself many times over. not to mention 5-30 dollar copays, and cheap prescriptions. walking around without medical insurance is really stupid and selfish. "hey society, catch me if i fall!" i don't know anybody who's never gotten sick. but no, you're right; we shouldn't be responsible for ourselves. that's obviously the government's duty. I find it comical that in the country like USA people are expected to be fully aware and responsible for their health while almost everywhere else government considers this one of their priorities. Maybe you are smart and educated on the matter, does this mean that major amount of population doesn't even deserve to get help? Also, 50-150 $ a month is not a tiny bit of money, especially if you live on your own. Insurance will not even offer a full coverage on all your expenses, often times it's a huge scam in itself. If anything, US health care system is fucked up, you talk about insurance covering the high cost of it but first of all you should realize that it is insanely overpriced. How much do you make to afford 80$ monthly on average without cutting something else? | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On May 01 2009 04:04 psion0011 wrote: This shit right here gives me chills....I on the other hand qualified for a whole year of insurance b/c of my low-income. I only earn about 30k a year and qualified for a year's worth of insurance. I'm glad I have it since im 23 now and every now and then I will feel something I don't think is normal but anyways I am glad I have it. You should try and look up in your city about low-income insurance. I'm taking advantage of mine as much as I can as I might be bumping up to 50k a year soon. Oh and just make sure u drink plenty of fluid. Also I heard drinking some beer can help as well. | ||
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On May 02 2009 02:10 food wrote: I find it comical that in the country like USA people are expected to be fully aware and responsible for their health while almost everywhere else government considers this one of their priorities. Maybe you are smart and educated on the matter, does this mean that major amount of population doesn't even deserve to get help? Also, 50-150 $ a month is not a tiny bit of money, especially if you live on your own. Insurance will not even offer a full coverage on all your expenses, often times it's a huge scam in itself. If anything, US health care system is fucked up, you talk about insurance covering the high cost of it but first of all you should realize that it is insanely overpriced. How much do you make to afford 80$ monthly on average without cutting something else? If paying medical insurance puts you in the red, then you are living beyond your means. When you nationalize the health care, you alleviate responsibility from individuals at the cost of poorer service for all. Look at England's system, it's fucked. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
If paying medical insurance puts you in the red, then you are living beyond your means. Oh wow. | ||
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Quint
467 Posts
Drink a lot and take painkillers in order to relax as much as possible. You will definitely know when it is about to come out. Show the stone to your doctor so he can analyze it and give you tips how to prevent a second one (which is, unfortunately, very likely). Even though it happened years ago, I still have problems with my kidneys due to the stone and I changed a lot in my lifestyle just to prevent having another one. I wish you the best of luck. Edit: I dont want to scare you, those are just my experiences - there are a lot of people who had much less problems. | ||
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TS-Rupbar
Sweden1089 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
On May 02 2009 02:41 HeadBangaa wrote: If paying medical insurance puts you in the red, then you are living beyond your means. When you nationalize the health care, you alleviate responsibility from individuals at the cost of poorer service for all. Look at England's system, it's fucked. Rofl your brain is fucked. USA health care sucks terribly. My stomach hurts so fucking bad right now and I dont really know why. I took a shit and ate and it still hurts so I'm outta ideas. I am actually considering going to a clinic and getting checked out. I can do this and be back at home within like 45 minutes for free. Universal health care is not a bad thing. Health shouldn't be left to free-market ideology. | ||
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Kenny
United States678 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On May 02 2009 03:51 MiniRoman wrote: Rofl your brain is fucked. USA health care sucks terribly. My stomach hurts so fucking bad right now and I dont really know why. I took a shit and ate and it still hurts so I'm outta ideas. I am actually considering going to a clinic and getting checked out. I can do this and be back at home within like 45 minutes for free. Universal health care is not a bad thing. Health shouldn't be left to free-market ideology. When I feel ill, I go to the doctor's office and see a doctor. Not a nurse, a doctor. It costs me $10. Any meds also cost $10. You exaggerate about "free-market". The fact is, you only have to be responsible enough to get insured. That's not dog-eat-dog laissez faire as you imply. Medical care is very accessible. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On May 02 2009 03:51 MiniRoman wrote: Rofl your brain is fucked. USA health care sucks terribly. My stomach hurts so fucking bad right now and I dont really know why. I took a shit and ate and it still hurts so I'm outta ideas. I am actually considering going to a clinic and getting checked out. I can do this and be back at home within like 45 minutes for free. Universal health care is not a bad thing. Health shouldn't be left to free-market ideology. USA health care is generally many times then universal health care countries... why...? enjoy spending multiple hours in line in the emergency room because people go there for a common cold... because it's free. Clinic check ups aren't that expensive and even if you live on your own 50-150 a month should be no problem at ALL for someone to come up with. I don't think the US could really afford universal health care to be completely honest with you. Countries with that have on average 1/5th the population the United States does and the US is already spending a good chunk of change on social insurance/means-tested programs. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On May 02 2009 02:48 L wrote: Oh wow. It's like rent, food, car payment, car insurance, or any other expense. You have to budget your expenses and figure in necessary costs. Are non-americans really this dependent on the government, that the concept of budgeting your money for your needs elicits "oohs" and "ahhs"? Pathetic. Again, any full-time job is 99% likely to provide medical insurance. If a US American is uninsured, it is self-neglect. Just like, if you get in a major car accident and you didn't have auto insurance, you are also rolling the dice. The OP has an internet connection, probably a cell phone, probably a car payment. But no health insurance? And it's USA's fault? No no, we value our individualism a bit more than that, thank you. | ||
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myfriendPlank
United States550 Posts
Serious Response: You're probably going to be in tons of pain. One of my friends dad had kidney stones and he was wrecked for a couple of days. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
Sorry Alpine, you're too fucking irresponsible and lazy to be treated for kidney stones. Gl brutha. Stories about 8 hour waits in emergency rooms because people have colds is fucking stupid. We have common sense and it goes by the necessity seriousness. If you're a moron that goes to the emergency room with a cold then yes, that moron will wait 8 hours because they dont need to be there. Other than that it's just American ignorance =\ Oh and walk-in clinics have doctors. dont know what the fuck your talking about. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On May 02 2009 04:47 MiniRoman wrote: I love the American mentality of blaming the poor for being poor. Sorry Alpine, you're too fucking irresponsible and lazy to be treated for kidney stones. Gl brutha. Stories about 8 hour waits in emergency rooms because people have colds is fucking stupid. We have common sense and it goes by the necessity seriousness. If you're a moron that goes to the emergency room with a cold then yes, that moron will wait 8 hours because they dont need to be there. Other than that it's just American ignorance =\ Erm, a large collection of people(in this case you're referring to an entire nation), regardless of race, nationality, or however else you want to divvy it up by NEVER have "common sense" as a whole. I'd like to caution you against lumping what you read into as "American ignorance" - it makes you just as bad as the individuals you're trying to generalize. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On May 02 2009 04:56 rushz0rz wrote: i am fucking terrified of kidney stones now. thanks. Haha... my Dad had them once, too small to warrant an operation, but large enough to make him scream when they had to pass. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On May 02 2009 04:47 MiniRoman wrote: I love the American mentality of blaming the poor for being poor. Sorry Alpine, you're too fucking irresponsible and lazy to be treated for kidney stones. Gl brutha. Stories about 8 hour waits in emergency rooms because people have colds is fucking stupid. We have common sense and it goes by the necessity seriousness. If you're a moron that goes to the emergency room with a cold then yes, that moron will wait 8 hours because they dont need to be there. Other than that it's just American ignorance =\ Oh and walk-in clinics have doctors. dont know what the fuck your talking about. Interestingly, Canadians above the poverty line (20k/yr) pay an avergae of about $1000/year in income taxes to cover nationalized health care. Much more than the average PPO insured American. :p | ||
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SuBlue
United States59 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Hopefully that's the last of them...? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32058 Posts
This thread is painnnnnnnnn Op update yet?? WELL I'M QUITE THE OBLIVIOUS ONE TODAY EH | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On May 02 2009 07:03 Hawk wrote: My dick hurts from the picture of the hell stone, and my brain hurts from some absurd comments. This thread is painnnnnnnnn Op update yet?? /facepalm Look two posts above yours. | ||
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MuR)Ernu
Finland768 Posts
On May 02 2009 06:31 HeadBangaa wrote: Interestingly, Canadians above the poverty line (20k/yr) pay an avergae of about $1000/year in income taxes to cover nationalized health care. Much more than the average PPO insured American. :p taxes overall or is that the part which goes directly to the healthcare? But man, this thread reminded me of something really horible. In amazon or somewhere there, there are these fish, which can swim trough the stream of your piss right into your dick. Then they lodge theirselves there with spikes or something ; Man i hope i won't ever get kidnet stones | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On May 02 2009 07:35 MuR)Ernu wrote: taxes overall or is that the part which goes directly to the healthcare? But man, this thread reminded me of something really horible. In amazon or somewhere there, there are these fish, which can swim trough the stream of your piss right into your dick. Then they lodge theirselves there with spikes or something ; Man i hope i won't ever get kidnet stones now those fish are really nasty indeed, but from what i read on wikipedia they have never swum through the stream of piss. | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
In the US it could take you 5 hours EASILY waiting in the ER to be checked out, it will be another 2-3 hours till they let you out. If you want to see a doctor, you need an appointment. If it's urgent then your fucking doctor is of no use, because you will end up in the ER no matter what. There are multiple cases of patients DYING waiting for hours to be checked out. The concept that medicare is just like another utility bill is a complete failure. No doctor( or medical personnel) should be ever allowed to turn off the patient if he needs help. It is against the very nature of medicine. If you think otherwise - you are not worthy of calling yourself human. People should be able to afford 80$ a month? Wake the fuck up, look around yourself. If you didn't go to college and working shitty jobs, got laid off or just happen to be in a fucked up situation most likely you are not going to be able to afford it. In addition to this some people have kids, get in accidents, get sick with something that is not included in their insurance plan. You are neglecting all the circumstances and telling me that they not supposed to get decent help even if they need it. That's beyond shallow. Also, things that you are suggesting will never work. If people are tight on their budget and relatively healthy they WILL NOT get insurance, just because it is a part of a HUMAN NATURE. Most people don't think of what's going to happen tomorrow if a brick falls on their head of if they catch a swine flu. Saying that they should is like saying that everyone should be nice to each other, it's just another utopia. That's why "foreign" countries regulate health care including its cost into taxes. It is done to give everyone an equal opportunity to be healthy, not reject someone on the basis of his income or financial situation or just being a fool for not getting insurance. US health system offers better care then countries that regulate it? This is a load of shit, just NOT TRUE. | ||
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piskooooo
United States351 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
You apparently don't know what you're talking about. | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 02 2009 11:11 HeadBangaa wrote: Doctors can't legally turn people away who require medical help. They will loan you the money, or do it pro bono. The OP must have turned down the cost; that's not the same as being turned away. You apparently don't know what you're talking about. This is it? Everything else is legit? You could've tried to argue your point some. They will do a check up and help you in critical condition sure. You will owe 1k for a simple test at a hospital which you will never pay off and ruin your credit history. You are the one that has no idea about it. Look around yourself, all the people complaining must be imagining things. They won't operate on your kidney stone if it's not passing. See the difference? It's a fluke. | ||
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FirstProbe
1206 Posts
The quality of care provided in the US is very high if you can afford it. I believe that most people can afford health care insurance if they believe this is important (even if its not the most comprehensive package, it should still cover the most emergent medical care). In New Zealand public health care is free, but there are long waiting lists, and just an overall lack of funding to this sector. Incidentally people take health care for granted and this really irritates me. I'm sure they believe they pay enough taxes to feel that they can treat the hospital like a hotel. Which system is best? I don't know. "No doctor( or medical personnel) should be ever allowed to turn off the patient if he needs help. It is against the very nature of medicine. If you think otherwise - you are not worthy of calling yourself human." They shouldn't be able to refuse anyone requiring urgent medical help, but to suggest that they should attend to anyone who seeks medical attention is ludicrous. I can't imagine my mechanic offering to fix my car for free and I'm sure you can't imagine working for free either. | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm A Report by the Institute of Medicine to Congress March 11, 2009 only 10 pages worth the read. http://iom.edu/Object.File/Master/64/230/Ayanian IOM Ways and Means Testimony 3-11-09.pdf excerpt "The principal cause of declining rates of private health insurance coverage is the ever-rising cost of health care. Between 1999 and 2008, family health insurance premiums rose 119 percent, more than triple the 34 percent increase in workers’ earnings in the same time period" | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On May 02 2009 12:08 FirstProbe wrote: They shouldn't be able to refuse anyone requiring urgent medical help, but to suggest that they should attend to anyone who seeks medical attention is ludicrous. I can't imagine my mechanic offering to fix my car for free and I'm sure you can't imagine working for free either. If we talking free medicare then it is free no matter what, what's the use of it if you only kept alive but cannot get help otherwise without spending a lot of money. Also it doesn't quite compare to mechanic fixing your car, if medicare is funded through taxation then government is the one paying you money with the patients taxes. Government doesn't have an auto repair tax to pay the mechanic. | ||
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feathers
United States236 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
It's like rent, food, car payment, car insurance, or any other expense. Haha, the hits keep on comin'. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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FirstProbe
1206 Posts
On May 02 2009 14:11 food wrote: If we talking free medicare then it is free no matter what, what's the use of it if you only kept alive but cannot get help otherwise without spending a lot of money. Also it doesn't quite compare to mechanic fixing your car, if medicare is funded through taxation then government is the one paying you money with the patients taxes. Government doesn't have an auto repair tax to pay the mechanic. I wasn't really referring to medicare - to be honest, I'm not really sure what medicare is. I was just talking about some guy walking down the street, collapsing, and being taken to a hospital - that sorta thing. I guess in some sense, insurance is the cheapest way of getting health care, should you need it. Oh, and to make a terrible analogy (and it really is) - you shouldn't buy a car, without buying car insurance. edit: I doubt the Government will be able to fund the level of care that private insurance can provide in the USA, without absurdly high tax rates. | ||
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BalliSLife
1339 Posts
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ToSs.Bag
United States201 Posts
as for kidney stones i feel for you bro.........water and walking........ break them up so they pass easier........ good luck! | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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VegeTerran
Sweden214 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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MagisterMan
Sweden525 Posts
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PadrinO
Canada103 Posts
On May 02 2009 06:32 SuBlue wrote: So, I passed like 3 last night....I took 2 5mg tabs of vicodin 15 minutes into it, and I still passed out from the pain. There was blood, puke and urine all over the place....and it was FUCKING HORRIBLE! That mean one of the possibility I put forth has came up! You actually had quite a stone there, but it broke out into pieces after drinking all that water and now it's cleaning your kidney's up. If you think peeing all those little stone hurts.... tell yourself it's much better then pissing that one stone in one shot. And have it stuck in your dick for 45 minutes because there wasnt enough water to push it out all throughout the canal the first try. And then running back to get more water, have more liquid to piss, and have a 2nd attempt, and rinse & repeat until it finally comes out. | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
On May 02 2009 06:32 SuBlue wrote: So, I passed like 3 last night....I took 2 5mg tabs of vicodin 15 minutes into it, and I still passed out from the pain. There was blood, puke and urine all over the place....and it was FUCKING HORRIBLE! wow. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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fearus
China2164 Posts
1.childbirth 2.passing a kidney stone so... hi 5 for being men!!!!! | ||
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piskooooo
United States351 Posts
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Pieguy314
Canada262 Posts
EDIT: however, there still is a scar here, and its been here for two years now. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On May 02 2009 02:41 HeadBangaa wrote: If paying medical insurance puts you in the red, then you are living beyond your means. When you nationalize the health care, you alleviate responsibility from individuals at the cost of poorer service for all. Look at England's system, it's fucked. QFFT. I lived in England for three years when my father, a surgeon, was stationed there. I frequently heard horror stories of the patch jobs they'd have to do on someone who'd been through the NHS. We all had instructions to refuse local service in the event of an accident and get the fuck to the nearest US military hospital. (anecdotes FTL, I know) The free medical care as a military dependant was nice, I see the allure of a nationalized system. But it's not too hard to get some coverage with insurance. And it beats dealing with this: http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=27997 (OHGOD at the source of this article and the political spin put on it, but I'm mostly in it for the waiting time stats) "It's simple. As the market-oriented Fraser Institute in Vancouver, B.C., can tell you, Canada's vaunted "free" government health-care system cannot or deliberately will not provide its 33 million citizens with the nonemergency health care they want and need when they need or want it. Courtesy of the institute, here are some unflattering facts about Canada's sickly system: Number of Canadians on waiting lists for referrals to specialists or for medical services -- 875,000. Average wait from time of referral to treatment by a specialist -- 17.8 weeks. Shortest waiting time -- oncology, 4.9 weeks. Longest waiting times -- orthopedic surgery, 40.3 weeks. Average wait to get an MRI -- 10.3 weeks nationally but 28 weeks in Newfoundland. Average wait time for a surgery considered "elective," like a hip replacement -- four or more months." Holy Shit. 40 weeks wait for orthopedic surgery? That happens to be my father's field, and I know his patients aren't waiting anywhere near that long. IMHO the biggest problem with health care in the states is litigation. | ||
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
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KwarK
United States42695 Posts
The middle class get about the same standard of care under both systems, although the upper middle class do lose out on the public system because (at the very least in the UK) you can't top up the public healthcare with private so they are limited to whatever provision they get on the state. How good this standard is varies from country to country but there will always be a few people on the cusp between middle class and upper class who will lose out. The lower class benefit hugely from the public healthcare system. They cannot afford a full healthcare plan, no health insurance would cover them because it'd be a bad financial investment, their earnings will not cover the costs. That and the lower classes get sick more, generally due to environmental factors. Under a public system they are taken care of for free, paid for out of general taxation. Under a private system they are either left to die, treat the symptoms without treating the problem or trapped in overwhelming debt. The reason you can find statistics both ways on the public-private healthcare argument is because the waiting lines are shorter in a private system and the mortality rates are lower. That's because the average patient gets about twice as much spent on him in private as in public, not because of some intrinsic magic in private practice medicine. More lives are saved by the public system though. The costs of curing someone are less than the costs of treating the symptoms of a condition for years on end. Lower class people without insurance will have trouble paying for the treatment they need immediately and will instead spend far more money with worse results managing the symptoms over a long period of time. Medicine has a diminishing return on investment, the improvement in healthcare is not proportionate to the increase in cost. To put that in context. Public takes X money and treats everyone with Y quality of health care. Private will take X money, treat half the people with only 1.5Y quality. Better for the people being treated but far less cost efficient. Sick people are bad for society in general. Poor people who are ill with a contagious virus ignore it and infect those around them, perpetuating the problem. While that may not bother you, eventually one of those people getting paid so little he can't afford to take a sick day will be the guy coughing over your food. To use a crude analogy, you may not like your toilet on a personal level, you may not think it deserves your investment, but you still buy products to keep it hygenic because if you don't it'll be worse for you. Public health challenges can be met with a co-ordinated, universal approach in a public system. From pandemics to obesity, public can invest (for example) in anti-smoking ads which pay for themselves and more in lower healthcare costs. The economics of healthcare change when the objective is to make a healthy society rather than to treat a lot of patients. On a related note, it's actually advantageous for a private hospital for there to be a surplus of sick people, it increases demand and therefore prices. Basic economics. Whereas a public system is given a set amount of money and told to spend it as best they can on the sick people that year which means if there's anything it can do to save itself money it will. While one profits from a sick society the other does not. I'm not suggesting that private hospitals deliberately make people ill but equally they don't attempt to reduce the healthcare costs of society as a whole. Avoidable money spent on healthcare is ultimately money wasted and is bad for everyone in society. You might think that if someone chooses burn their money that doesn't effect you but it does, its money not spent on goods or invested or put into a house. Having people without insurance burning money away treating symptoms of a condition they can't afford to cure and dying while still capable of work is a net loss for society which in turn means its a net loss for every member of society. It's an indirect loss but a 45 year old man dying of a curable condition still leaves society 20 years of productive labour worse off. Oh, and one other point. People aren't cars needing mechanics. If they don't get healthcare they die. This is bad. If people are dying and we can stop it we probably should. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
Chomsky D: Why a linguist thinks he knows about healthcare is a bit unknown. He is also super liberal, and his position on the matter is going to be pretty obvious without having heard him speak. "If you take the socialized part of the system, medicare, its administrative costs are like a fraction of the privatized system" That's partly because they pay a fraction of what they are billed. My dad sees a lot of medicare patients because the other oprthopods in town won't. "there's constant talk about the problems Medicare's facing down the road ... yeah it's true. But the problems are because it has to work through the privatized system, which makes it highly inefficient, costly, bureaucratized" Sure, because the government isn't notorious for bureaucracy. Whether it's DC or Brussels, you'll find it hard to convince me that government does anything efficiently. "The public has wanted something that makes sense" How about fewer lawyers dicking around in the process. I write a huge check each month for malpractice insurance. That cost gets passed to you. Lack of tort reform in my state has led to a drain, as the doctor population declines to head elsewhere. No one is going to want to work for pennies on the dollar for the government (after spending 13 years of higher education for the privilege) while having to fork over for insurance so they don't get ruined by a suit. Would nationalized health care address this? Maybe, but it could be addressed without putting the government in charge of everything. "If it was part of an ongoing, lively debate or discussion, as would happen in a functioning democratic society" LOLWUT. That in a nutshell is all one needs to know about Chomsky. Where is the Great Firewall of America preventing us from debating this here? Or newspapers not covering Hillary's efforts in the 90s? Democracy is not at its shining best here (though Obama is president, he is more of the same) but telling me that people don't debate whatever they want here? Has the man turned on a cable news channel? Has he listened to O'Really and Olbermann? To say there is no debate is ridiculous. Speaking of the 2004 election, the NY Times and others point out that "Kerry never suggested any government involvement in the healthcare system because it is politically impossible and lacks political support" You think? How does he reconcile this statement with his assertion that government run healthcare is demanded by most of Americans (who for some reason don't debate it because we are a non functioning democracy). "the only support it had was from the large majority of the population" ..because I say so. "pharmaceutical corporations didn't like it, and so on" How about we neuter our pharma industry. Let's take away the incentive for discovering drugs that help people. Or let's turn it over to the government, who for sure could do it more efficiently. Yeah, stuff like Rogaine is dumb. But if vain people *cough* buy it and fund research on other stuff, welp I'm cool with it. What I'm saying is our pharma is doing pretty well at advancing medicine. People will disagree with that of course, people who are into natural cures and would prefer medicine (and life expectancy) to be like centuries ago. And they'll probably be likely to align with Chomsky's views on a lot of things. On Obama's health care plan: "The privatized health care system is complaining bitterly right now, because if there's an option of a public system, as is written into the program, they won't be able to compete on a level playing field. That's a way of saying 'we're so inefficient and costly that we can't compete with a national health care system'" Again, governement efficiency? GTFO. There will be no level playing field because the government could, by fiat, pay less. Being cheapasses (and letting most of the people availing themselves of a government program be cheapasses too) is not efficiency. There are still many Americans (though that number could be dwindling, in which case it's time for me to leave) who believe in self reliance, hard work, and small government. Increased government involvement in health care, when the government is already insolvent, just doesn't strike a lot of people as a good idea. Of course they'll just keep printing more of their paper fiat based currency and pay for everything!! woo. Now, while I'm not sure Chomsky is qualified to talk about this stuff, I'm probably not either. Yet here we both are (no debate my ass). And I'm not too likely to be objective, given the field I am in. Mostly Chomsky just makes me so very very angry. It's too bad for the OP he didn't have insurance to get him a CT scan or an MRI, but I'm pretty sure it would be a fallacy to think he'd get one elsewhere in a timely fashion for a non life threatening condition. See previous post about wait times for non essential procedures in Canada for example. I just don't think letting the government handle it would make everything better. That's not an uncommon attitude here (though I can't say if it's the most common), even if it's apparently pretty unbelievable for people living in places where the government does control a lot more. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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Krohm
Canada1857 Posts
Either way I drink 2-4L of diet pepsi a day... God I'm so not going to enjoy my future kidney stones... How old is everyone who got a kidney stone anyway? I'm only 24 and have never once felt anything described in this thread. | ||
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KwarK
United States42695 Posts
Also your suggestion that everyone who believes in a public system also believes in herbal remedies is just an insult. On the contrary, a public system is even better equipped to deal with a pharmaceutical companies as they represent a large portion of the demand. I believe a public system is more efficient for society as a whole (if you regard the preventable death of someone else as inefficient). Of course, if your only concern is yourself and your immediate family then private seems more efficient (paying for just yourself) but you are a member of society and when society loses out, you do too. | ||
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Shrinky Dink
United States52 Posts
Im really worried right now and i hope that its rare under a certain age, as im only 16. its a good chance of being severe back pain or some kind of other infection, but i just thought i would ask | ||
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BasedSwag
Algeria418 Posts
On January 09 2011 01:52 Shrinky Dink wrote: Sorry for bump but im in deep pain in my lower back, having signs of kidney stones, and im wondering if theres a certain age that people are usually when they get it. Im really worried right now and i hope that its rare under a certain age, as im only 16. its a good chance of being severe back pain or some kind of other infection, but i just thought i would ask Go see a doctor. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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jgoonld
334 Posts
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ScrubS
Netherlands436 Posts
On topic: all you can do is to take it easy and use some painkillers which also have a muscleweaking effect on the urinary system. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On January 09 2011 03:05 ScrubS wrote: Sucks to be an American lol. America is one of the few western countries where they wouldn't fix this due to your insurence. In most european countries, it is mandatory to have a health insurence. God Bless America! On topic: all you can do is to take it easy and use some painkillers which also have a muscleweaking effect on the urinary system. Don't even start to bring that up ok? One of my friends has had kidney stones since he was like 15, so I don't think there's a certain age. He has them repeatedly as well, not sure if something is wrong with him or what but it sucks. | ||
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Quint
467 Posts
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MadJack
Peru357 Posts
Chancapiedra (the name of the herb literally means "stone breaker") you take it like a herb tea, and IT REALLY works, its from my country tho, but you can get capsules from this website + Show Spoiler + http://www.perunaturalproducts.com/la_chancapiedra.htm It really did a wonderfull job with me, i had that problem, it hurts really really bad. But i started taking the herb and after one month i was totally fine. | ||
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Dropsonic
United Kingdom36 Posts
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
NHS ftw | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 09 2011 03:16 GreEny K wrote: Don't even start to bring that up ok? One of my friends has had kidney stones since he was like 15, so I don't think there's a certain age. He has them repeatedly as well, not sure if something is wrong with him or what but it sucks. Tell him to go to the urologist, any person below 25 with more than one episode of kidney stones MUST be studied further looking for urinary tract abnormalities. If it were his case, with the passing years the kidney scars and chalices dilate because of the increased pressure from repetitive obstruction (hydronephrosis/hydroureteronephrosis), and might get infected, causing a chronic pyelonephritis, maybe even losing a kidney. All of this is, of course, somewhat farfetched, but it's a possible complication of repeated and untreated urolithiasis. He should definitely get more exams. On Topic. The initial treatment for kidney stones is drinking lots of water and waiting for it to come out. Excruciating pain and blood in the urine is normal during this period. If it is not expelled in around a week the regular procedure is a catheter lithotripsy, then other procedures come, like ultrasound lithotripsy, and only in very complicated cases the treatment is surgery. As far as prevention goes: -Drink lots of water -Reduce consumption of calcium-rich foods (though this is of less importance than hydration,and somewhat controversial) -Proteins have only a light relation with kidney stones, they are, however, related to chronic kidney problems in long-term high protein based diets, if you add that up with damage from stones, it could complicate it more in older ages. In people who suffer from other metabolic problems they can increase kidney stones, but in this case the stones are made of other substances, derived from protein metabolism. -Basically, diluted urine prevents kidney stones, since it prevents calcium and other mineral stones from crystallizing and precipitating into the urinary tract. -Diet drinks and other caffeine based drinks have been strongly related to kidney stones. Basically, the kidney drops tons and tons of water, only water, thus concentrating mineral salts in the chalices or collector tubules, which makes them precipitate and form a stone. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:08 Dropsonic wrote: I experienced some minor pain in my lower right back today. And of course someone had to bump this thread. Needless to say, i'm scared shitless. Only minor pain though, and I did sit in an uncomfortable position. But still... Unlikely to be a kidney stone, remember this: -The pain is insanely high. (Women usually compare this to giving birth to a child, or worse) -Characteristically, any person, particularly male, with lots of lower back or abdominal pain irradiating into the inguinal area and/or scrotum is suspect of having a kidney stone. -A very important and common characteristic of kidney stones is that the pain makes the person VERY uncomfortable and makes him/her move around, squeal, scream in pain, and being unable to stay put. The patient is incredibly restless, I've seen many of these in the ER during my shifts and you can instantly recognize kidney stones because of this, it's an almost certain diagnosis. Edit: Sorry for double post :S | ||
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DoA
Korea (South)599 Posts
I was told by the doctors that diets that are high in sugar (drink much pop, nerd?) and protein (I was grilling with a friend at least 3-4 times per week that summer) were probably causes. One good thing you can do during the whole ordeal is to move around as much as you can. It sounds crazy, but it helps the stone work it's way through to your bladder. Make sure you're already taking the pain meds before this step though... | ||
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Project Psycho
United Kingdom329 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
he's about 300lbs and 5'8, lives on coca cola, pizza and hamburgers and ive never seen him drink a glass of water in the 20 years ive known him the gallstone was so big they had to remove his entire gallbladder, he's such a retard and im surprised if he makes it past 30 | ||
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Glasse
Canada1237 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:40 Project Psycho wrote: Wow it sucks to be american, they cant even tell you if your dying or not unless you pay them thousands of dollars, wtf? thats what i was thinking | ||
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Marcjuh
Netherlands25 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:40 Project Psycho wrote: Wow it sucks to be american, they cant even tell you if your dying or not unless you pay them thousands of dollars, wtf? Oh the ER had too treat you but they also charge you and medical treatment gets very expensive very fast. Eleven stitches in the wrist was 1250 dollars and the surgery there after was another 12000. Luckily I have insurance but yea. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:51 Jayme wrote: Oh the ER had too treat you but they also charge you and medical treatment gets very expensive very fast. Eleven stitches in the wrist was 1250 dollars and the surgery there after was another 12000. Luckily I have insurance but yea. OMG that's crazy expensive, if my country were like that, no one would even get treated for anything. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:16 Pulimuli wrote: lmao reminds me of a friend of mine who got a gallstone about 2 years ago he's about 300lbs and 5'8, lives on coca cola, pizza and hamburgers and ive never seen him drink a glass of water in the 20 years ive known him the gallstone was so big they had to remove his entire gallbladder, he's such a retard and im surprised if he makes it past 30 Gallbladder must be removed regardless of stone size when a person has gallstones. Reasoning behind this is that if you have a gallstone it can eventually block the bile drainage, causing inflamation and a potentially lethal complication (acute cholecystitis), which can cause a number of more important and severe complications. Also, having gallstones produces chronic gallbladder inflamation, even if symptoms aren't present, which can eventually cause gallbladder cancer, with a very high mortality rate. All of this seems to have a very strong genetic component. In the US gallstones aren't that common, whilst in my country it's an everyday consult, and cholecystitis surgeries are almost as frequent as apendicitis ones. Also, gallbladder cancer is one of the leading death causes here, particularly in middle aged women. | ||
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SaYyId
Portugal277 Posts
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