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On January 30 2009 09:30 ilovehnk wrote:I still suggest people read it, the quotes I posted doesn't represent the whole book. It's not like he tryings to convince you stop studying and get rich, he wanted to explain to people if you want to be rich, you simply cannot follow your traditional "study hard in school and expect to be successful by working your ass off in a company". Instead focus on increasing financial IQ, get involved in stocks, government bonds, real estate, etc... Like Excalibur_Z said: Show nested quote +Some of it is vague but he does a good job of outlining the value of money and how that value is different for everyone. It's not about greed as some people in this thread believe, it's about smart money management. I particularly like how he breaks down what is an asset versus a liability (ie your house is a liability because it is a constant money-sink) and how to balance out the two such that you limit liabilities to the degree that your assets overtake them in value, thereby increasing your personal wealth
How can you get involved in businesses when you don't know the "root" of business. The only way you can become a "competent" businessman is to learn from experience. That is, start your own business/corporation. Once you understand how businesses work then you can judge other good businesses and enter the stock market. Until then, you're just following others advice and market trends. You'll make money off market trends but you won't get rich. You need to either have insider knowledge or very good power of perception to go good on the stock market.
Read the book, read it again, then again (like I did) and you will understand the underlying principle -> good systems make money NOT money. That is, the way you view the business and set up the business will determine how much you prosper. Not your bottom line, because your bottom line can fail at any time due to "bad luck". That's why Kiyosaki always uses "barring any unforeseen circumstances" in his arguments.
It's nothing about school or being rich or any of that. It's about "thinking right".. again, to relate it to poker. No book tells you "exactly how to play". Each book feeds you a certain set of perspectives so you learn to "view the situation through a pros eyes". This is what I think Kiyosaki's message is... "learn to view money making through a rich person's eyes".... not the bottom line.
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Osaka27175 Posts
The main point I agree with is that there is a woeful amount of training out there for the everyday person to manage their money. I believe money management should start in junior high school and continue through university. It is such an important part of people's lives that it baffles me that it isn't a core course everywhere.
You might call me a chump, but I have a hard time with this money-first approach that dominates contemporary society. I think Theos was the one who said "who doesn't want to make millions of dollars" earlier in the thread, but I'll raise my hand for that one. I think people with lots of money end up becoming defined by their wealth, not by what they do.
I am able to live a comfortable existence in a single-income family. I would much rather spend my time on things other than money, such as my family and my hobbies. I would rather be known for the things I do then the amount I get paid to do them.
Now I know people will say "if you get rich you will be able to do that stuff later on", but I want to spend the prime of my life doing these things. I don't want to be 50 trying to play basketball or missing my kid's formative years so I can take care of them later.
When I get older, I will undoubtedly have to work harder to provide for the growing needs of my family. I am ok with that. I would rather do it then than now.
Kind of random thoughts, but just what I am thinking about these days.
PS- 500 bones for a board game? No wonder that dude is rich.
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On January 30 2009 03:15 zizou21 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 01:55 ilovehnk wrote:
"A truly intelligent person welcomes new ideas, for new ideas can add to the synergy of other accumulated ideas. Listening is more important than talking. If that was not true, God would not have given us two ears and only one mouth. Too many people think with their mouth instead of listening to absorb new ideas and possibilities. They argue instead of asking questions."
stopped reading. in all seriousness, this book sounds like pure drivel
And all this time I thought we had 2 ears so that the brain could locate the direction sound is coming from based on the difference in time that sound takes to travel to one ear before the other >.>
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Ok i am now more or less convinced that it is bullshit.
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On January 30 2009 10:15 Straylight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 03:15 zizou21 wrote:On January 30 2009 01:55 ilovehnk wrote:
"A truly intelligent person welcomes new ideas, for new ideas can add to the synergy of other accumulated ideas. Listening is more important than talking. If that was not true, God would not have given us two ears and only one mouth. Too many people think with their mouth instead of listening to absorb new ideas and possibilities. They argue instead of asking questions."
stopped reading. in all seriousness, this book sounds like pure drivel And all this time I thought we had 2 ears so that the brain could locate the direction sound is coming from based on the difference in time that sound takes to travel to one ear before the other >.>
the whole two ears one mouth is just him being sarcastic....... smart people always listen to what others say, while others just keep talking, giving out information. In the end, the smart learned what others had to say while keeping his information to himself and others still don't know what's in the smart guy brain.
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I think this book is just a "feel good" encouragement that sells because it convinces people they can be rich, the amount of times i have heard that another stock market crash is impossible (before the stock market crash) is just silly, and i know plenty of people who bought realestate believing that the overblown, bloated price that they paid would go even higher. there is no easy way to get rich, you either have to get lucky, or just have great timing with a good idea, and that itself is considered to be lucky by many people. A lot of people don't realize that most people in high-standards of living countries have slaves, they can't see the slaves but it doesnt mean they are not there. how many people die or work their asses of for nothing for me? i couldnt give a number, i dont have those statistics, but the fact is we steal half of our shit from african countries and other countries who cant do shit about it, and in turn people die, or are forced to work and live in horrible conditions, you cannot create wealth, you can only move it.
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On January 30 2009 01:55 ilovehnk wrote:
It seems people misunderstood from few quotes I posted, this is not trying to tell you stop studying and get rich now, it is trying to give you another perspective if you want to become rich but stuck in the studying hard pathway. Hence I added more quotes to demonstrate his ideas.
studying/developing has very little to do with becoming rich
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To quote the_pwnerer "You gotta get involed...then you take the stuff you learn and add it to your stuffs, and liek, thats how you get ahead of everybody else"
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On January 30 2009 03:24 Cloud wrote:
Great book imo, As with anything else, you shouldnt place this on a pedestal and base your life on it, but it does have some good advice. Particularly the "dont work for money" motto and the "get a job to learn more than to earn money".
Woot! +1
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dont listen to this man, study hard work hard, die.
ps: and play some recreational amateur poker while you arrive from work at home, k thx bye.
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On January 30 2009 09:59 MaZza[KIS] wrote:
How can you get involved in businesses when you don't know the "root" of business. The only way you can become a "competent" businessman is to learn from experience. That is, start your own business/corporation. Once you understand how businesses work then you can judge other good businesses and enter the stock market. Until then, you're just following others advice and market trends. You'll make money off market trends but you won't get rich. You need to either have insider knowledge or very good power of perception to go good on the stock market.
Read the book, read it again, then again (like I did) and you will understand the underlying principle -> good systems make money NOT money. That is, the way you view the business and set up the business will determine how much you prosper. Not your bottom line, because your bottom line can fail at any time due to "bad luck". That's why Kiyosaki always uses "barring any unforeseen circumstances" in his arguments.
It's nothing about school or being rich or any of that. It's about "thinking right".. again, to relate it to poker. No book tells you "exactly how to play". Each book feeds you a certain set of perspectives so you learn to "view the situation through a pros eyes". This is what I think Kiyosaki's message is... "learn to view money making through a rich person's eyes".... not the bottom line.
sighhh. well first of all
The only way you can become a "competent" businessman is to learn from experience. That is, start your own business/corporation.
1. You do not start a business if you do not know what you are doing. You have a better chance of making money off the stock market by selecting 5 stocks and hoping they take off. Businesses fail very often and sometimes people never get back on their feet. I see small businesses go under because of poor management. Management skills are learned working in sucessful companies. You always go work for a firm, and if you are good, break away and go into business for yourself. General accounting skills are learned in school or a textbook, once agian, many small businesses neglect these fundamentals.
That is, start your own business/corporation.
2. I remember him speaking about corporations vs private businesses. Do not let his incorporated vs private business model fool you. You do not get double taxed in a private business. You can claim expenses to decrease your tax liability in a private business. You increase capital expenditures (infrastructure type improvements) in your private business and claim the depreciation expense to decrease your tax liability. Corporations must pay taxes on their profits, and if they want to transfer that profit to shareholders, there is another tax (dividend tax). That is considered double taxation.
This is what I think Kiyosaki's message is... "learn to view money making through a rich person's eyes".... not the bottom line.
3. His statements make no sense, they just stand out because they are complete opposites from common logical knowledge. The "bottom line" is how businesses determine how succesful their business is. They can identify if there is any inefficiencies in the system. By forgoing the "bottom line" you will have such a hard time "thinking right".
Now if Robert was referring to the slash and burn type of business that only focus on the short term profits and not longterm structure/goals of the company. Ofcourse those companies are not healthy. Then yes, he is correct. What a way to butcher up that idea and make it more confusing than it is.
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"Now I know people will say 'if you get rich you will be able to do that stuff later on', but I want to spend the prime of my life doing these things. I don't want to be 50 trying to play basketball or missing my kid's formative years so I can take care of them later."
I found this quite contradicting, it might be my intrepretation of it, but if you don't want to be 50 playing basketball and you don't want to miss your child growing up, how are you supposed to play basketball when you aren't 50? Because if you don't miss your child grow up, you are doing that when you aren't 50, and then once you reach 50 and finish watching your child grow up, you aren't in your prime anymore so you can't go get into the NBA - Not really relevant though - (I get the point... Maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut next time)
=[
on topic: I think that the author is being a little TOO stereotypical. My dad tells me to work hard study hard, and probably doesn't expect me to buy a company, but my dad studied hard, worked hard, and now he owns his own business...
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Osaka27175 Posts
On January 30 2009 14:16 OmgIRok wrote:Show nested quote +"Now I know people will say 'if you get rich you will be able to do that stuff later on', but I want to spend the prime of my life doing these things. I don't want to be 50 trying to play basketball or missing my kid's formative years so I can take care of them later." I found this quite contradicting, it might be my intrepretation of it, but if you don't want to be 50 playing basketball and you don't want to miss your child growing up, how are you supposed to play basketball when you aren't 50? Because if you don't miss your child grow up, you are doing that when you aren't 50, and then once you reach 50 and finish watching your child grow up, you aren't in your prime anymore so you can't go get into the NBA - Not really relevant though - (I get the point... Maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut next time)
I guess I wasn't being that clear. I didn't mean I was going to the NBA. I just meant that is seems many of my friends who have been going the "money route" spend most of their 20's and 30's work extremely hard. They are consumed by the desire to make millions. Some will succeed and some will fail, but they all spend their younger years working to make enough capital to get their money working for them.
I dunno, I would rather take the path I am on. I don't make so much money, but I have a ton of free time to do things I really want to do. I work on my hobbies (like sports and BW), I spend time with my wife and child, I travel.
I feel like I would rather work really hard when I am older and play catch up, than work hard when I am younger and have more freedom later. Obviously I will not have as much money, but I think I will be wealthier.
edit: I guess part of it comes from living in a society where you are expected to kill yourself at a desk for 20 years before you can relax. I look at the train zombies around here and just cringe.
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On January 30 2009 06:12 StRyKeR wrote:
I had two dads who played SC. One was a noob, the other was a pro. I've had many discussions with both of them, and frankly, it's been hard to decide for myself what I wanted to do. I've now come to terms with their perspectives.
Noob dad always advocated the "safe" strategy. 12hatch11pool13hatch, 3-hatch spire, 2gate robo-obs, 1rax cc. He looked down upon "cheesers" and said he doesn't "play for wins" -- he plays for "fun". He has Ph.D. in Starcraft and he theorycrafts all day long.
Pro dad was more risk-taking. He sometimes recommended an 8-rax bunker rush, a 2 hatch-spire, even a 1-hatch hydra and 14nex against a zerg, but his playstyle was definitely very colorful. He had this mantra that you shouldn't work so hard just to get wins -- you should make wins work for you. He also had this thing about being "strategically literate". He owns a progaming team and trains the next generation of progamers.
I learned that a lot of people complain about cheese -- "I need a better opponent", "I woulda won ez", etc., when in fact it's really the burden of the middle class players to adapt.
You know you're in this ditch when you constantly think of "playing it safe" and "following the most popular builds". It may be fun to do because everyone is doing it, but you have to be strategically literate. It's a cultural thing. People work hard and practice hard memorizing their favorite progamer builds but always wonder, "How can I win more games? How can I get wins quick? I need some wins... I have a massive win-debt..."
Players that accumulate a great mass of wins all of a sudden often end up in win-debt because they got there by luck.
I mean, if you play cookie-cutter TvZ every single game and you start losing to cheese here and there, is it really their fault for playing the best game possible?
"Win" is an acronym for "whining insecure noob". People who work for the win complain about their win ratios, their APM, their build orders, and their opponents.
Perhaps the most important thing to realize is that gosus know the difference between an asset and a liability. Muta control is a liability in the hands of a noob. Far too often, noobs think that their control is an asset and don't think twice about using their APM purely for muta harassing the Terran main. Only afterwards might he realize that he has 1k min 1k gas in his bank and no lurkers to defend against the Terran ball. Gosus understand this difference.
If you let emotions take over, you will most certainly fail. What? You see more tanks than you had thought? *adds 5 more sunks* Now that was a waste of money wasn't it? You have to let your emotions guide you, not define you. Emotion = energy in motion.
I learned a lot of things from my pro dad.
Awesome post. Makes this thread a winner.
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On January 30 2009 12:13 baal wrote:
dont listen to this man, study hard work hard, die.
ps: and play some recreational amateur poker while you arrive from work at home, k thx bye.
Have fun, die.
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On January 30 2009 14:37 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 14:16 OmgIRok wrote:"Now I know people will say 'if you get rich you will be able to do that stuff later on', but I want to spend the prime of my life doing these things. I don't want to be 50 trying to play basketball or missing my kid's formative years so I can take care of them later." I found this quite contradicting, it might be my intrepretation of it, but if you don't want to be 50 playing basketball and you don't want to miss your child growing up, how are you supposed to play basketball when you aren't 50? Because if you don't miss your child grow up, you are doing that when you aren't 50, and then once you reach 50 and finish watching your child grow up, you aren't in your prime anymore so you can't go get into the NBA - Not really relevant though - (I get the point... Maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut next time) I guess I wasn't being that clear. I didn't mean I was going to the NBA. I just meant that is seems many of my friends who have been going the "money route" spend most of their 20's and 30's work extremely hard. They are consumed by the desire to make millions. Some will succeed and some will fail, but they all spend their younger years working to make enough capital to get their money working for them. I dunno, I would rather take the path I am on. I don't make so much money, but I have a ton of free time to do things I really want to do. I work on my hobbies (like sports and BW), I spend time with my wife and child, I travel. I feel like I would rather work really hard when I am older and play catch up, than work hard when I am younger and have more freedom later. Obviously I will not have as much money, but I think I will be wealthier. edit: I guess part of it comes from living in a society where you are expected to kill yourself at a desk for 20 years before you can relax. I look at the train zombies around here and just cringe.
well thats your case but some people bulid wealth withouth that sick work in their 20s and 30s and many people work their asses off all their life for little profit in regular boring jobs.
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On January 30 2009 14:46 MeriaDoKk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 12:13 baal wrote:
dont listen to this man, study hard work hard, die.
ps: and play some recreational amateur poker while you arrive from work at home, k thx bye. Have fun, die.
thats the plan son :D
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I'd be very very careful about this book. Kiyosaki is more of a motivational writer than an informative one. Many people finish this book ready to start a new financial life, but still have no idea how the hell to begin. Plus most of Kiyosaki's fortune comes from books and seminars he holds, rather than the profitable business ventures he claims to have.
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lol i should write a book, except my dad was both rich ( exceedingly) and poor, now he's in the lower middle class building a company.
as a consequence i was both rich and poor, though i was poorer than him, because i was left with poor aunt in a Portuguese ghetto for 2.5 years T.T
things I've learned: money isn't the most important thing in the world. and leading a sheltered life leads to an unfulfilled life, but money does buy a lot of facilitators in life.
on topic, the book has a few tips that are valid, I.E buy assets, you should buy a house rather than rent one, if you can of course.
BTW he lost his money because he was naive, and didn't diversify his assets as well as he should have, instead he was busy making more money.. *sigh*
I have learned from him/ his mistakes, that after a certain point one has to decide, whether it's worth it to keep going, and be consumed by this greed, or if they should liquidate and live a more fulfilled life. the problem with this is that to people who make this kind of money, making money is the biggest life fulfillment.
/rant
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EPT
