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Nude body scans at airports - Page 14

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Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
November 18 2010 22:49 GMT
#261
When another plane gets crashed, bombed, someone shot on a plane, stabbed, etc, we will bring this topic back up and discuss it again.
RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
November 18 2010 23:03 GMT
#262
On November 19 2010 07:49 Fa1nT wrote:
When another plane gets crashed, bombed, someone shot on a plane, stabbed, etc, we will bring this topic back up and discuss it again.

4th amendment is that way ---->
Check it out, yo.
Kenderson
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada280 Posts
November 18 2010 23:05 GMT
#263
Scenario: You have a job at an airport as the person who monitors the body scanner. Your family is going on a trip and has to fly from the same airport. When they pass through the scanner you see your entire family naked and are traumatized for the rest of your life. SHIT JUST GOT REAL.

"Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage." -Confucious
SharkSpider
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada606 Posts
November 18 2010 23:14 GMT
#264
On November 19 2010 07:34 Nazarid wrote:
if these "pictures" were secure then why are so many people already out there on the web with these "secure" pictures? well if you want to have near naked pics taken of you and possibly released to public view you can use these new machines or just have some guy named bob pat ya down and be done with it... and if your selected to use the machine refuse it... there is no law that states you have to cooperate with that test.. you can always opt for a different method although this may lead to abusive behavior from the Airport security and possibly cost you thousands of dollars in court fees but its the point... I am an American and i shouldn't have to use the security machine that rapes my rights as an American citizen, I like my cloths thank you and no one but my wife needs to see my "business" when a simple full body pat down can do the same thing this machine does.

If you want a body pat you can get one. Also names are never attached to the pictures and the released ones have been -examples- released to the media so that they can't show an accurate representation. Furthermore, the faces are all blurred out in these ones. The reason these machines are there is because people don't want the full body pat downs. This is the most elegant solution to the problem of needing more info about what people have on their bodies but not wanting to impose on people's rights by having to grab their junk.
RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
November 18 2010 23:16 GMT
#265
On November 19 2010 08:14 SharkSpider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 07:34 Nazarid wrote:
if these "pictures" were secure then why are so many people already out there on the web with these "secure" pictures? well if you want to have near naked pics taken of you and possibly released to public view you can use these new machines or just have some guy named bob pat ya down and be done with it... and if your selected to use the machine refuse it... there is no law that states you have to cooperate with that test.. you can always opt for a different method although this may lead to abusive behavior from the Airport security and possibly cost you thousands of dollars in court fees but its the point... I am an American and i shouldn't have to use the security machine that rapes my rights as an American citizen, I like my cloths thank you and no one but my wife needs to see my "business" when a simple full body pat down can do the same thing this machine does.

If you want a body pat you can get one. Also names are never attached to the pictures and the released ones have been -examples- released to the media so that they can't show an accurate representation. Furthermore, the faces are all blurred out in these ones. The reason these machines are there is because people don't want the full body pat downs. This is the most elegant solution to the problem of needing more info about what people have on their bodies but not wanting to impose on people's rights by having to grab their junk.

So you're saying if a nameless, faceless person on the internet wanted a picture of your genitals, with no picture of your face, you'd be okay because they don't know your name, and won't see your face? Hmmm......Sounds a bit odd to me.
SharkSpider
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 23:27:21
November 18 2010 23:27 GMT
#266
On November 19 2010 08:16 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 08:14 SharkSpider wrote:
On November 19 2010 07:34 Nazarid wrote:
if these "pictures" were secure then why are so many people already out there on the web with these "secure" pictures? well if you want to have near naked pics taken of you and possibly released to public view you can use these new machines or just have some guy named bob pat ya down and be done with it... and if your selected to use the machine refuse it... there is no law that states you have to cooperate with that test.. you can always opt for a different method although this may lead to abusive behavior from the Airport security and possibly cost you thousands of dollars in court fees but its the point... I am an American and i shouldn't have to use the security machine that rapes my rights as an American citizen, I like my cloths thank you and no one but my wife needs to see my "business" when a simple full body pat down can do the same thing this machine does.

If you want a body pat you can get one. Also names are never attached to the pictures and the released ones have been -examples- released to the media so that they can't show an accurate representation. Furthermore, the faces are all blurred out in these ones. The reason these machines are there is because people don't want the full body pat downs. This is the most elegant solution to the problem of needing more info about what people have on their bodies but not wanting to impose on people's rights by having to grab their junk.

So you're saying if a nameless, faceless person on the internet wanted a picture of your genitals, with no picture of your face, you'd be okay because they don't know your name, and won't see your face? Hmmm......Sounds a bit odd to me.

No, I'm saying that some pictures have been released (voluntarily on the pretext that faces are blurred) so that the public can know what's going on (and start shitstorming before they actually look in to the facts). That's no reason to say anything about pictures getting leaked, and even less reason to keep saying "nude" instead of what these pictures actually look like. When I walk through one of these things during my next flight, a picture will be taken, some random airport person who doesn't know me and probably never will will get 10 seconds to look at it, then throw it away because I won't have a bomb strapped to my gut. I really have absolutely no problem with this. In fact, I'd be happy if getting a chance to see a healthy person walk through made the security officer's day just that much better, considering the amount of gargantuan americans they'll have to look at throughout the day. That can't be a fun job, but if ten years from now, they catch some fat guy with C-4 taped up between his belly and his junk , it'll be worth every idiot complaining about the whole deal, every media-fuelled misconception and every angry TLer who thinks that this is all part of some 1984 fascist power grab.

Also absolutely everything in your post screams minsinformed and blown out of porportions.
Bartuc
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
November 19 2010 00:04 GMT
#267
Problem is that they may not force people to use these body scans right now, but once they're installed and operational then in time they will be mandatory. I have the impression that many of these privacy invading (might be coming off a bit paranoid here ^^) policies are first introduced in a mild manner as to not upset people, then they use this as a backbone to further expand and implement more excessive and intrusive policies and methods over time.
It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
themorningstar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States22 Posts
November 19 2010 00:10 GMT
#268
I don't like where the levels of paranoia are going.

I also don't like that they fine you if you opt-out of both and leave.
Zhek
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada342 Posts
November 19 2010 00:14 GMT
#269
You know, we're on a RTS website and I have to wonder... Anyone else seeing the economic war going on? I mean, Al Qaeda spent maybe a giant 50$ to make that bastard of a bomb in that guy's trousers.US's answer? Millions of dollars spent into scanners.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 19 2010 00:15 GMT
#270
On November 19 2010 07:36 Manifesto7 wrote:
By keeping the American public fearful like this, the terrorists win without launching another attack. It is also the reason I won't fly out of the US again. It is an unacceptable level of intrusion just to take an airplane.

Unfortunately, I'd bet the majority of the population is so disarmed by FUD and a lack of respect that the outrage will eventually die.

It is also depressing that supporters seem to think you have a say in the matter, "Well is ok if they can't see my face" or, "as long as they don't save the pictures!". You have no say in the matter.
RedTerror
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
New Zealand742 Posts
November 19 2010 00:27 GMT
#271
This is a huge violation of privacy and dignity it's sort of sad to see how some cultures have become so desensitized that they would allow these sort of things to happen.
SharkSpider
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada606 Posts
November 19 2010 00:28 GMT
#272
On November 19 2010 09:15 Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 07:36 Manifesto7 wrote:
By keeping the American public fearful like this, the terrorists win without launching another attack. It is also the reason I won't fly out of the US again. It is an unacceptable level of intrusion just to take an airplane.

Unfortunately, I'd bet the majority of the population is so disarmed by FUD and a lack of respect that the outrage will eventually die.

It is also depressing that supporters seem to think you have a say in the matter, "Well is ok if they can't see my face" or, "as long as they don't save the pictures!". You have no say in the matter.

It's depressing to see people assuming the worst possible answer to all of these questions when it's been specifically stated that that's not the case. Obviously I don't want these pictures put up on a billboard in my hometown with my real picture and name plastered on them, but the fact is that this won't happen, no matter how often people make outlandish claims about the security of the images.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
November 19 2010 00:31 GMT
#273
I just flew in from SF to Long Beach and they had these scanners in SF, I'm guessing they have them at every international airport now. But yeah, I skipped the scanner and went through the metal detector. It's kind of crazy to hear about this then actually see it at an airport.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 19 2010 00:31 GMT
#274
On November 19 2010 09:28 SharkSpider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 09:15 Romantic wrote:
On November 19 2010 07:36 Manifesto7 wrote:
By keeping the American public fearful like this, the terrorists win without launching another attack. It is also the reason I won't fly out of the US again. It is an unacceptable level of intrusion just to take an airplane.

Unfortunately, I'd bet the majority of the population is so disarmed by FUD and a lack of respect that the outrage will eventually die.

It is also depressing that supporters seem to think you have a say in the matter, "Well is ok if they can't see my face" or, "as long as they don't save the pictures!". You have no say in the matter.

It's depressing to see people assuming the worst possible answer to all of these questions when it's been specifically stated that that's not the case. Obviously I don't want these pictures put up on a billboard in my hometown with my real picture and name plastered on them, but the fact is that this won't happen, no matter how often people make outlandish claims about the security of the images.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

Learn it, you're already living it.

You'd be making sense if you weren't attacking imaginary comments and scenarios.

Also, you do not have a choice on whether it happens or not. Sorry. Bureaucracy knows Best.
SharkSpider
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-19 00:44:17
November 19 2010 00:43 GMT
#275
On November 19 2010 09:31 Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 09:28 SharkSpider wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:15 Romantic wrote:
On November 19 2010 07:36 Manifesto7 wrote:
By keeping the American public fearful like this, the terrorists win without launching another attack. It is also the reason I won't fly out of the US again. It is an unacceptable level of intrusion just to take an airplane.

Unfortunately, I'd bet the majority of the population is so disarmed by FUD and a lack of respect that the outrage will eventually die.

It is also depressing that supporters seem to think you have a say in the matter, "Well is ok if they can't see my face" or, "as long as they don't save the pictures!". You have no say in the matter.

It's depressing to see people assuming the worst possible answer to all of these questions when it's been specifically stated that that's not the case. Obviously I don't want these pictures put up on a billboard in my hometown with my real picture and name plastered on them, but the fact is that this won't happen, no matter how often people make outlandish claims about the security of the images.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

Learn it, you're already living it.

You'd be making sense if you weren't attacking imaginary comments and scenarios.

Also, you do not have a choice on whether it happens or not. Sorry. Bureaucracy knows Best.

See: Sarcasm

People in this thread have suggested that these pictures could get leaked online, and that an operator might recognize people he or she knows in the scans. My comment was pertaining to the latter, namely, photos getting online and people being able to find out who they are. Neither of these are likely or even possible with the current system. Don't confuse taking a condescending tone (what I do) with being a moron (what the people who think that if they go through one of these there's a chance people they know will see the images are doing)

And of course I don't have a choice. I'm just pointing out that the people who do make the decisions have made some correctly. You can't base your arguments on theoretics about what the authorities could do with the system when they've been quite specific in saying that they're not doing that. If they do change their opinions and start changing policies, then of course it will warrant another look. Until then, anyone talking about having the images leaked is presenting a straw man argument. (Gasp, you're not the only one who can identify them)
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 19 2010 00:54 GMT
#276
I don't know if you know this, but at one point income taxes were, "Just going to be a few percent on the wealthy" and, "Metal detectors are a hassle but now we are all safe so don't worry".

Hundreds were leaked, so I don't know what you are talking about when you say people are unduly concerned. It is the typical authoritarian line that you don't have any reason to worry and it will never happen. No, it really isn't a strawman, even if it hadn't happened, it is a legitimate concern, albeit minor in the opposition to the scanners.

I am glad you are fine with the scanners. May you enjoy going through the Testicle Squeezing Administration's new checkpoints ^_________^
shaunnn
Profile Joined October 2010
Ireland1230 Posts
November 19 2010 00:59 GMT
#277
I dont see the problem its not taking what isnt already out there, its not forcing you to strip like
The naniwa - Unit of protoss skill, defined as the number of gates you build off of one base
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
November 19 2010 01:08 GMT
#278
A lot of posters are completely missing the point that these scanners do not prevent bombs or other weapons from being taken on board. They are merely another taxpayer-funded boondoggle. They are hazardous, invasive, and ineffective.
Turn off the radio
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
November 19 2010 01:08 GMT
#279
What do they do about crippled people like in wheelchairs? Do they still have to submit to this kind of scan that requires them to have to stand up all the way
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 19 2010 01:09 GMT
#280
On November 19 2010 10:08 FinestHour wrote:
What do they do about crippled people like in wheelchairs? Do they still have to submit to this kind of scan that requires them to have to stand up all the way

Yup. Did you expect anything different from the government?
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