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try and figure out which statments are really true and which are really false. enjoy... each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it. start with statement 1.
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
ill give you guys a while to figure it out before posting the answer. 
edit: hint, tally up all the true/false for each statement on a piece of paper as you go.
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well, technically it depends on their starting values
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On August 19 2008 06:33 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +1-4 are false, 5 is true. Am i right? ill let you sweat on it till more ppl try.
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Okay let's give it a shot... Let me assume they're all true to begin with... 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
Execute statement 1: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 2: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 3: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5f Exe 4: 1t 2t 3f 4t 5t Exe 5: 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
But oh wait I think I did it the bad way hmm
Hmm after some more thoughts and a method I made up it seems that it has no solution.
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On August 19 2008 06:35 evanthebouncy! wrote: Okay let's give it a shot... Let me assume they're all true to begin with... 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
Execute statement 1: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 2: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 3: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5f Exe 4: 1t 2t 3f 4t 5t Exe 5: 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
But oh wait I think I did it the bad way hmm when reaching a new statement you have to recheck the others/reverse them/leave them alone.
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+ Show Spoiler +assuming they start as true, it's 1,2 and 4 false, 3 and 5 true. assuming they start as false, it's the opposite my guess at least
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On August 19 2008 06:36 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 06:35 evanthebouncy! wrote: Okay let's give it a shot... Let me assume they're all true to begin with... 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
Execute statement 1: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 2: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5t Exe 3: 1t 2f 3f 4t 5f Exe 4: 1t 2t 3f 4t 5t Exe 5: 1t 2t 3t 4t 5t
But oh wait I think I did it the bad way hmm when reaching a new statement you have to recheck the others/reverse them/leave them alone. Like I said that doesn't work(As in I've alredy know what ur gonna say so no worries)
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+ Show Spoiler + I think no solution To put it this way, let's consider 1's statement: "2,3 are false"
Assume 1t, then 2f 3f. Assume 1f, then 2t 3t.
As we can see, no matter 1's true/falseness, 1 and 3 will always be opposite. Either 1t 3f, or 1f 3t.
Now let's consider 5's statement: "1, 3 are true"
Assume 5t, then 1t 3t Assume 5f, then 1f 3f
As we can see, no matter 5's true/falseness, 1 and 3 will always be the same, Either 1t 3t, or 1f 3f.
Thus we reach a contradiction >_< Thus no solution I guess.
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+ Show Spoiler +if 1 is true, then 2 and 3 are false (as stated) => 1 is true and 3 is false (so far so good) and 4 is true, 5 is false (the reverse of 3) => 2 is true, 3 is false and 1 is false and 3 is true - contradiction with the initial presupposition
if 1 is false, then 2 and 3 are true => 1 is false, 3 is true and 4 is false, 5 is true => 2 is false, 3 is true (the reverse of 4) and 1 is true - contradicting the initial supposition
So 1 can't be true or false, therefore the exercise has no solution?
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Netherlands6142 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +1: true 2: false 3: false 4: false 5: false
Edit: sorry added spoiler
I think I can retrace my steps and explain it. I know it's a solution, dunno if it's the only solution.
And a little hint I think at least one person here missed: + Show Spoiler +When you set, f.e., (1) to FALSE you get 3 optional REAL statusses: -(2) FALSE, (3) TRUE -(2) TRUE, (3) FALSE -(2) TRUE, (3) TRUE
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Does "false" mean "completely false"?
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+ Show Spoiler +Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it looks like the only one that never changes is statement 5 (by the time you read statement 3 it always says statement 5 is true, and it's the only statement that can change 5), but 5 can't be true because 1 says statement 2&3 are true/false (depending on whether it's been reversed) and statement 2 never agrees that both statement 1 and statement 3 are true.... just looking at it, I'd say that statements 2 or 3 can be true, but not both of them... and I'm not sure how to determine which if either of them are true. Statements 1, 4 and 5 look to be definitely false.
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i actually remembered this from a long long time ago but cannot remember the answer. i actually do not KNOW the answer but assume its either one of the following...
answer 1 with my "work" wrong or right. + Show Spoiler +statement 1) 2 and 3 are false.
1= 2=f 3=f 4= 5=
statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true.
1=f 2=f 3=ft 4= 5=
statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true.
1= 2=f 3=f 4=ftf 5=t
statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false.
1= 2=ft 3=ff 4=ftf 5=t
statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
1=t 2=ft 3=fft 4=ftf 5=t
2 false cancel out, no matter how many true's, a leftover false will make the statment false. end result:
1=t 2=f 3=t 4=t 5=t
answer 2 with my "work" wrong or right + Show Spoiler +statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
1) says 2 and 3 are false. 2) can no longer say 1 is false and 3 is true. it now says 1 is true and 3 is false 3) can no longer say 4 is false and 5 is true. it now says 4 is true and 5 is false. 4) says 2 is true, and 3 is false. 5) can no longer say 1 is true, 3 is true. now says 1 is false, 3 is true.
remember: one statement saying another statement is true, therefore keeps the statement the same.
the curren't status of the statements are:
1=tf 2=ft 3=ffft 4=t 5=f
final answer:
1=f 2=f 3=f 4=t 5=f
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On August 19 2008 06:57 Mindcrime wrote: Does "false" mean "completely false"? false means a reversal of the statement. and "possible" reversal of other staments. i forgot to mention you can only run the statements once down through (or maybe once down through and then read and tallied, idk)
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On August 19 2008 06:57 Mindcrime wrote: Does "false" mean "completely false"? Eh, can there be "incompletely false"? If a statement is false then it is false.
Maybe lemme try explain more it'll be better... Let's say... A: Apples are red and Apples are orange. ^ That is false B: Apples are red or Apples are orange ^ That is true
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Pholon, he specifically said that "each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it", so you don't get 3 options.
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a really smart friend of mine gave me this problem a long time ago before he moved. i wish i could remember the answer.
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Lets see if I understood this correctly
+ Show Spoiler + statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true. Starting at 1 = T
T 1) 2 false, 3 false F 2) 1 true, 3 false F 3) 4 true, 5 false T 4) 2 false, 3 true
go back to 3)
T 3) 4 false, 5 true F 4) 2 true, 3 false
go back to 2)
T 2) 1 false, 3 true
go back to 1)
F 1) 2 true 3 true T 2) 1 false, 3 true T 3) 4 false, 5 true F 4) 2 true, 3 false
Loop???
Or are we just supposed to change the values once? Or are we supposed to find a pattern where all the statements are correct in such a way that the false statements are simply negating the truth?
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so what're the complete rules to the problem again?
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Doing it in my head, it seemed to me that + Show Spoiler +none are true: I) If 1 is true: 1 -2 and 3 are false 2 -since 3 is false, 4 is true 3 -which means that 2 is true 4 -which contradicts line 1
II) If 2 is true: 1 -3 is true 2 -which means that 4 is false 3 -which means that 2 is false 4 -which contradicts the starting premise
III) If 3 is true: 1 -5 is true 2 -which means that 1 is true 3 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction
IV) If 4 is true: 1 -2 is true 2 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction
V) If 5 is true: 1 -1 is true 2 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction This was following the OP that false means the complete reverse is true, and not simply that the statement is not fully true (but may be true in part).
Edit: I realized afterward that I wasn't thorough enough: I checked each statement for trueness, but not for falseness (by the definition used, false is not the same as not-true). However, it's easy to remedy that: + Show Spoiler +1-4 each say that various other statements are false. If any of 1-4 are false (i.e. its reverse is true), that will make a different statement true. We already showed that none of the statements can be true; therefore none of statements 1-4 can be false. If 5 is false, then 1 & 3 are false, but we just said that 1-4 cannot be false.
In short, all 5 statements are neither true nor false.
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On August 19 2008 07:08 Leath wrote:Lets see if I understood this correctly + Show Spoiler + statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true. Starting at 1 = T
T 1) 2 false, 3 false F 2) 1 true, 3 false F 3) 4 true, 5 false T 4) 2 false, 3 true
go back to 3)
T 3) 4 false, 5 true F 4) 2 true, 3 false
go back to 2)
T 2) 1 false, 3 true
go back to 1)
F 1) 2 true 3 true T 2) 1 false, 3 true T 3) 4 false, 5 true F 4) 2 true, 3 false
Loop???
Or are we just supposed to change the values once? Or are we supposed to find a pattern where all the statements are correct in such a way that the false statements are simply negating the truth?
now that you put it like that you made me remmember that my friend was really into computers >_>
On August 19 2008 07:13 qrs wrote:Doing it in my head, it seemed to me that + Show Spoiler +none are true: I) If 1 is true: 1 -2 and 3 are false 2 -since 3 is false, 4 is true 3 -which means that 2 is true 4 -which contradicts line 1
II) If 2 is true: 1 -3 is true 2 -which means that 4 is false 3 -which means that 2 is false 4 -which contradicts the starting premise
III) If 3 is true: 1 -5 is true 2 -which means that 1 is true 3 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction
IV) If 4 is true: 1 -2 is true 2 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction
V) If 5 is true: 1 -1 is true 2 -which has already been shown to generate a contradiction This was following the OP that false means the complete reverse is true, and not simply that the statement is not fully true (but may be true in part).
my brain is having a meltdown.... ill come back and read everything later...
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Dude just read my post :<
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I think I got it, per your instructions. + Show Spoiler +
I'm considering there to be three values: false, neutral, true, with all statements starting off as "neutral" with statement 1 and changing it with each new instruction.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On August 19 2008 07:04 Doctorasul wrote: Pholon, he specifically said that "each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it", so you don't get 3 options.
Yeah read that now, in which case I think I'm not finding a solution the way I'm doing it, but Ill give it some more though.
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+ Show Spoiler + 1:True 2:False 3:True 4:False 5:True
It's simple, if you start with 1 and just go down the line this is the answer you get using simple logics.
Okay, I gave it some more thougt and in my mind it depends on what you assume 1 to be. If you assume it to be true then my answer is correct, if false then reversed.
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On August 19 2008 07:30 Makhno wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 1:True 2:False 3:True 4:False 5:True
It's simple, if you start with 1 and just go down the line this is the answer you get using simple logics.
i had the same response but im not so sure now, seeing as statements 1 and 5 contradict each other with regards to 3.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
I'm thinking there's not solution, using the full reverse type of fail.
Reason+ Show Spoiler + Consider S3: 1 ) If 3 is true, it says that 5 is true, which says that 1 is true which says that 3 is [i]false (contradiction in italics)
2 ) If [b]3 is false it means that (through full reversal) 4 is true which says that 2 is true which then says that [b]3 is true (contradiction in italics)
So you could never find a value for 3, so no solution
...right?
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wait...no, wtf
its all false. blah, how frustrating
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Statement 6: Statement 6 is false
o_O
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On August 19 2008 07:33 fig_newbie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 07:30 Makhno wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 1:True 2:False 3:True 4:False 5:True
It's simple, if you start with 1 and just go down the line this is the answer you get using simple logics. i had the same response but im not so sure now, seeing as statements 1 and 5 contradict each other with regards to 3.
Damn, just realized I misread 1... Okay, i'm not seeing a reasonable answer here.
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i just came up with a solution but I'm not gonna spoil it for you guys
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Belgium9947 Posts
this is really easy for anyone who got a logics course
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Okay. I'll start with the ones that cannot be true:
2 and 3 cannot be true. If they were true, then three would also be true. Three says that five is true, which says that three is false. Since they can't agree, they are both out.
4 cannot be true because it says that 2 is true.
1 says that 2 and 3 are false, 5 says that 1 is true and 3 is false. Those two are in agreement, and since 2 and 3 are certifiably false, we know that they are true as well.
1,5 True 2-4 False
/thread
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On August 19 2008 07:49 RaGe wrote: this is really easy for anyone who got a logics course
You need to take a course to do elementary logic?
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edit: decided not to be snarky. Neverborn, your mistake is in assuming that not-true is the same as false here.
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On August 19 2008 07:49 RaGe wrote: this is really easy for anyone who got a logics course Meh posts like this is as good as nothing because it makes it sound like you know wtf is going on yet you offer no insights to it, and sounding off bragging some empty claims.
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On August 19 2008 08:21 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 07:49 RaGe wrote: this is really easy for anyone who got a logics course Meh posts like this is as good as nothing because it makes it sound like you know wtf is going on yet you offer no insights to it, and sounding off bragging some empty claims.
He obviously barely read it and threw that, to brag
On topic :
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
Problem...
if statement 3 is true, then statement 4 is false, then statement 2 is false, then statement 3 is false. ERROR.
ok then,
statement 3 must be false. so statement 5 must be false. so statement 1 must be fasle (but then 3 must be true. ERROR)
ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR
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On August 19 2008 08:14 qrs wrote: edit: decided not to be snarky. Neverborn, your mistake is in assuming that not-true is the same as false here.
well...
On August 19 2008 06:29 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote: ... each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it. ...
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On August 19 2008 07:54 Neverborn wrote: Okay. I'll start with the ones that cannot be true:
2 and 3 cannot be true. If they were true, then three would also be true. Three says that five is true, which says that three is false. Since they can't agree, they are both out.
4 cannot be true because it says that 2 is true.
1 says that 2 and 3 are false, 5 says that 1 is true and 3 is false. Those two are in agreement, and since 2 and 3 are certifiably false, we know that they are true as well.
1,5 True 2-4 False
/thread
Nope, 5 says 3 is true.
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On August 19 2008 08:14 qrs wrote: edit: decided not to be snarky. Neverborn, your mistake is in assuming that not-true is the same as false here. No, his mistake was misreading #5. :p
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eh, maybe i was wrong o.O, i could of swore it said 1 was true and 3 was false x.x
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Has this been solved yet?
+ Show Spoiler +
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
Assume 1 is true: 2 is false -> 1 is true, 3 is false 3 is false -> 4 is true, 5 is false 4 is true -> 2 is true RAA: 1 is false When 1 is false, 5 is false. When 5 is false, 3 is false. Therefore making 4 and 2 true. However, 2 says that 3 is true
So there is no answer. Unless you take the path that "not false" doesn't mean "true." Then you only look at the "true" values:
Assume 2 is true: 3 is true 5 is true 1 is true, which contradicts 2 being true
Assume 3 is true: 5 is true 1 is true can work.
Assume 4 is true: 2 is true 3 is true 5 is true 1 is true, contradicting 2 being true
Assume 5 is true: 1 is true 3 is true 5 is true
Assume 1 is true: nothing.
Therefore, 1, 3, 5.
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5 is false because there is a conflict of logic if it's not. Following that:
My logic: 5F -> 1F, 3F 3F -> 4T, 5F 4T -> 2T, 3F 2T -> 1F, 3T 1F -> 2T, 3F
which works as far as I know since statement one states that 2 and 3 are false. The 'and' is misleading since statement 1 is false if statement 2 _or_ 3 is true. No assumptions required.
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+ Show Spoiler +Assume statement 1 is true, and the rest are false. Statement 1 is valid because we're assuming both 2 and 3 are false. Statement 2 is false because 1 is true, and says 2 is false Statement 3 is false because 1 is true, and says 3 is false. Statement 4 is false because it says 2 is true, but 2 is actually false. Statement 5 is false because it says 3 is true, but 3 is actually false.
Yeah, it's all based on assumptions, but based on that assumption, everything checks out.
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was bored, came back to check LOL at my answer
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On August 19 2008 09:07 Jin wrote: 5 is false because there is a conflict of logic if it's not. Following that:
My logic: 5F -> 1F, 3F 3F -> 4T, 5F 4T -> 2T, 3F 2T -> 1F, 3T 1F -> 2T, 3F
which works as far as I know since statement one states that 2 and 3 are false. The 'and' is misleading since statement 1 is false if statement 2 _or_ 3 is true. No assumptions required.
If 2 is true then 3 is true then 5 is true. :|
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On August 19 2008 09:17 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 09:07 Jin wrote: 5 is false because there is a conflict of logic if it's not. Following that:
My logic: 5F -> 1F, 3F 3F -> 4T, 5F 4T -> 2T, 3F 2T -> 1F, 3T 1F -> 2T, 3F
which works as far as I know since statement one states that 2 and 3 are false. The 'and' is misleading since statement 1 is false if statement 2 _or_ 3 is true. No assumptions required. If 2 is true then 3 is true then 5 is true. :|
Oops you are right
K, starting with 5T then:
5T -> 1T, 3T 3T -> 4F, 5T 4F -> 2F, 3T 2F -> 1T, 3F which is another conflict I;m confused
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You fail again. 
EDIT: I posted before your edit~
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all F
edit: unless the false here does not imply logical not, which I'm assuming it does
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On August 19 2008 08:39 Yank31 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 08:14 qrs wrote: edit: decided not to be snarky. Neverborn, your mistake is in assuming that not-true is the same as false here. well... Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 06:29 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote: ... each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it. ... Right. If a multiple-part statement is not true, it doesn't follow that its reverse is necessarily true. But anywayOn August 19 2008 08:52 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 08:14 qrs wrote: edit: decided not to be snarky. Neverborn, your mistake is in assuming that not-true is the same as false here. No, his mistake was misreading #5. :p my bad: didn't reread the OP. Even if neverborn had been right about #5, his answer would still be wrong, for the reason I mentioned.
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one answer:
+ Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
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Oh god sounds like a UMAT question ><
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On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false.
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+ Show Spoiler + Order of Operation:
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. 1T2F3F4T5T statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. 1T2F3F4T5T (Works good so far) statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. 1T2F3F4T5F (Good) statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. 1T2T3F4T5F (Everythings Fine) statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true. 1F2T3F4T5F (A bit of switching) 1F2T3T4T5F (Starting from beginning again) 1F2T3T4T5F (After 2) 1F2T3T4F5T (After 3)
I quit, dinner time
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+ Show Spoiler +
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
statement 1) = OK statement 2) = OK statement 3) = OK statement 4) = 3 reverses to <b>true</b>! 2 stays the same <b>false</b> statement 5) = 3 stays the same and so does 1.
1 F 2 F 3 T 4 F 5 T
Ez  Check PLz ?
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On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false.
Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false."
Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid.
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:edit:mis understood hte perms on how this is done. i'll do it later my first conclusion was all are false because the statement conflict with their own true or false but that is taking statement 5 as a truth.
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On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid.
The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false."
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the real answer
+ Show Spoiler + assume 5 is true. 5 says 1 is true and 3 are true. ok so look at 1. 1 says 3 is false. direct contradiction with 5 saying that 3 is true. so 5 IS FALSE. and we can rule out anything else that says 5 is true. therefore 3 IS FALSE because it claims so. and by chain combo logic, anything saying 3 is true is also false. so 2 IS FALSE for claiming so. the only thing that can be true is either 1 or 4. and because 4 says 2 is true, which we just prove is totally bogus, 4 is also bogus by the bogus-transitive property. 1 IS TRUE.
Check: 1 says 2 and 3 are false. 2 claims than 1 is false and 3 is true. that is not consistnet with 1. checks out 3 claims that 4 is false and 5 is true. 5 is not true, so that is also not consistent with 1. checks out.
1 IS TRUE
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On August 19 2008 11:28 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid. The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false."
Please read some basic logic theory.
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On August 19 2008 06:57 Mindcrime wrote: Does "false" mean "completely false"?
no false means the entire the is not true.
if i say "bush is a jackass, cheyney is the devil, and bill clinton did not screw monica lewinsky", then we can say about the statement as a whole "it is false", because we know bill clinton did screw monica lewinsky.
now if only bills were rejected as a whole for having one inkling taint. christmas trees would die forever.
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On August 19 2008 12:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 11:28 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid. The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false." Please read some basic logic theory.
The OP says "reverse".
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On August 19 2008 12:13 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 12:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 11:28 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid. The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false." Please read some basic logic theory. The OP says "reverse".
then the op is wrong and doesn't understand logic, because if that's true it means the process by which I reached my conclusion (which was logically valid, even if you take that "reverse" rule into account) would be wrong and the system in which the problem is based is flawed.
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+ Show Spoiler +FTFTF run the statement from 1 to 5 once.
just to add, bad wording!! please use the word 'and', or ppl going to assume false meaning either, 'OR' is not true.
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read through it once, i don't want to think about it because i just got back from band camp which is fucking tiring as hell.
3+5true
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On August 19 2008 12:18 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 12:13 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 12:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 11:28 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid. The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false." Please read some basic logic theory. The OP says "reverse". then the op is wrong and doesn't understand logic, because if that's true it means the process by which I reached my conclusion (which was logically valid, even if you take that "reverse" rule into account) would be wrong and the system in which the problem is based is flawed. Oh for heaven's sake, just accept that you read the OP too quickly and didn't notice one of the rules. The problem is entitled to define its terms however it likes--if it defines "false" as "the reverse is true", then that's what "false" means in the context of the problem. It has nothing to do with "understanding logic".
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Lots of disagreement. I'll give it a try: + Show Spoiler + Givens:
1 ⇔ ¬2 ∧ ¬3 2 ⇔ ¬1 ∧ 3 3 ⇔ ¬4 ∧ 5 4 ⇔ 2 ∧ ¬3 5 ⇔ 1 ∧ 3
Let's test statement 1, by assuming 1 is true.
A. 1 ⇔ ¬2 ∧ ¬3; let's test the individual components ¬2 and ¬3
B. ¬2 ⇔ ¬(¬1 ∧ 3) ⇔ 1 ∨ ¬3
We are assuming 1 is true, so that holds. How about ¬3? (Note that we are still interested in ¬3 because of statement A, not statement B)
C. ¬3 ⇔¬(¬4 ∧ 5) ⇔ 4 ∨ ¬5
Let's test 4 and ¬5, then.
D. 4 ⇔ 2 ∧ ¬3
But we already have ¬2. So let's check the other term from C, ¬5
E. ¬5 ⇔ ¬(1 ∧ 3) ⇔ ¬1 ∨ ¬3
¬3 we already hold to be true, so E is satisfied, which satisfies C, and so on... so statement 1 is possibly TRUE.
So far, if we assume that 1 is true, we find a consistent result that: 1, ¬2, ¬3, ¬4, ¬5.
Bleh, too lazy to go through all the statements -_- someone else can give it a try
Hah, I guess I was lucky in choosing to start with 1.
AcrossFiveJulys's logic is correct. If you negate "A AND B," then you'll end up with "!A OR !B," not "!A AND !B."
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On August 19 2008 12:40 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2008 12:18 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 12:13 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 12:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 11:28 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 11:05 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On August 19 2008 10:02 Mindcrime wrote:On August 19 2008 09:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:one answer: + Show Spoiler +
Proof that 5 is false by contradiction: 1) Assume 5 is true. This implies that 1 is true and 3 is true. 2) Since 1 is true, both 2 and 3 are false. But this is a contradiction; 5 said 3 is true. Thus, 5 must be false.
Now we know 5 is false. Let's find any statements that say 5 is true. Statement 3 says 5 is true. Thus, statement 3 must be false.
Now let's find statements which say 3 is true. Both 2 and 5 say 3 is true; thus, both 2 and 5 must be false (we already knew 5 was false).
Finally, we find any statements that say 2 is true. Statement 4 says 2 is true, thus 4 must be false.
So far, we have proved that 2,3,4, and 5 are all false. Let's look at statement 1. Statement 1 says both statements 2 and 3 are false. Hence, statement 1 must be true.
Hence, we have figured out the values of all five statements:
1 is true, and 2,3,4,5 are all false.
If 1 is true then 3 is false then 5 is false then 1 is false. Negative. If 1 is true, then 3 is false, I agree. But, if 3 is false, then it's the opposite of "4 is false and 5 is true", which is equivalent to: "4 is true AND 5 is true, OR 4 is true AND 5 is false, OR 4 is false AND 5 is false." Edit: for clarity, I'm showing you the first untrue statement you made which means your conclusion isn't valid. The reverse of "4 is false, 5 is true" is "4 is true, 5 is false." Please read some basic logic theory. The OP says "reverse". then the op is wrong and doesn't understand logic, because if that's true it means the process by which I reached my conclusion (which was logically valid, even if you take that "reverse" rule into account) would be wrong and the system in which the problem is based is flawed. Oh for heaven's sake, just accept that you read the OP too quickly and didn't notice one of the rules. The problem is entitled to define its terms however it likes--if it defines "false" as "the reverse is true", then that's what "false" means in the context of the problem. It has nothing to do with "understanding logic".
yeah but if you reverse it like it says to in the op there is no answer, you just get contradictions.. This implies to me the op forgot the details of the question and made a mistake in the instructions.
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"Reversing" a statement has no logical meaning. There is negation, there is taking the inverse, there is taking the converse.... there is no "reverse" of a statement.
The negation, or the "NOT A" of a statement A, is probably the correct interpretation and yields a consistent result.
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Canada7170 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Assume 5 is true. 3 and 1 are then true. But 1 says 3 is false. So 5 must be false. 3 is then false. so 2 is then false. Then 4 is false. 1 is true.
TFFFF
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mikeymoo, you can't justify "5 is false, therefore 3 is false." It could be 1 that is false, and 3 could be true at that point.
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no solution..
two statement saying eachother is T both has to have the same real value (ie. both true or both false), two statement saying eachother is false both has to have different value.
On August 19 2008 13:16 sYz-Adrenaline wrote: F F T F T
so 5 is true, and 5 says that 1 is true, but 1 is false?? lol there is no solution dude.
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AcrossFiveJulys said everithing that should be said in this case...
please... study some logic...
!(P AND Q)= !P OR !Q
+ Show Spoiler + 1 true, everithing else is false, just need to find a contradiction, and with 5 is easy to find, but try and u will find it on 2,3 and 4 too
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Glider.... 1 true and the rest false is consistent. I don't think any other scenario is consistent, as proven by AcrossFiveJulys. "No solution" is the wrong answer.
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On August 19 2008 14:49 BottleAbuser wrote: Glider.... 1 true and the rest false is consistent. I don't think any other scenario is consistent, as proven by AcrossFiveJulys. "No solution" is the wrong answer.
that is only right if 1 false perimeter makes the whole statement false... which i guess makes sense but if you read the condition at the beginning..
On August 19 2008 06:29 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:
each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it.
in this case a false statement 5 would mean that statement 1 is false also...
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+ Show Spoiler +Only the first statement is true. Just start from Statement 5 and work your way up from that.
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Is this already solved? Anyways here is my "guess": + Show Spoiler + 1, 2 and 5 are true 3 and 4 are false
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On August 19 2008 14:51 iamke55 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Only the first statement is true. Just start from Statement 5 and work your way up from that.
true
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statement 2 and statement 4 prove that there is no possible combination,
if s4 is true than s2 must be true, but statement 4 also states s3 is true while s2 states that it s false, which means impos.
if s4 is false then s2 must be false but by making statement 4 false it would also state than s3 must be false while a false s2 would state s3 must be true, which means impos.
^this is done assuming that being false would completely reverse the statement, however being false doesn't necessarily mean that it is completely wrong, it is simply not wholly correct. which makes s1=t s2-s5=f a possible answer
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On August 19 2008 14:51 iamke55 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Only the first statement is true. Just start from Statement 5 and work your way up from that.
what about...
On August 19 2008 06:29 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:try and figure out which statments are really true and which are really false.  enjoy... each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it.
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Okay, what is a "reverse" of a logical statement?
Uhm... what?
Maybe "tnemetats lacigol a" ?
There is no such logical term as a "reverse." If you assign some arbitrary meaning to the word, such as a function that maps from "A AND B" to "NOT A AND NOT B," then yes, the system becomes unsolvable.
It is much more reasonable to assume that the "reverse" of a statement is the negation of it.
What is the "reverse" of "The sun is shining?" "The not-sun is not shining?" Or "The sun is not shining?" Come on, use common sense.
"If the red light is on, don't go." "If the green light is on, go." How do you reverse those?
"If the light that isn't red isn't on, go." "If the light that isn't green isn't on, don't go." Right? Jeeeeeez.
Even more intuitive example:
This statement is false: "I am 21 years old, and I have 10 million dollars." It is false because although I am 21 years old, I do not have 10 million dollars. Just because the statement is false doesn't mean that I'm not 21, though.
Now, if we "reverse" that statement, we'll end up with "I am not 21 years old and I do not have 10 million dollars." Obviously, both the statement and its reverse are FALSE, and assuming that the two together cover all of the possibilities is fallacious.
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On August 19 2008 15:48 BottleAbuser wrote: Okay, what is a "reverse" of a logical statement?
Uhm... what?
Maybe "tnemetats lacigol a" ?
There is no such logical term as a "reverse." If you assign some arbitrary meaning to the word, such as a function that maps from "A AND B" to "NOT A AND NOT B," then yes, the system becomes unsolvable.
It is much more reasonable to assume that the "reverse" of a statement is the negation of it.
What is the "reverse" of "The sun is shining?" "The not-sun is not shining?" Or "The sun is not shining?" Come on, use common sense.
"If the red light is on, don't go." "If the green light is on, go." How do you reverse those?
"If the light that isn't red isn't on, go." "If the light that isn't green isn't on, don't go." Right? Jeeeeeez.
Even more intuitive example:
This statement is false: "I am 21 years old, and I have 10 million dollars." It is false because although I am 21 years old, I do not have 10 million dollars. Just because the statement is false doesn't mean that I'm not 21, though.
Now, if we "reverse" that statement, we'll end up with "I am not 21 years old and I do not have 10 million dollars." Obviously, both the statement and its reverse are FALSE, and assuming that the two together cover all of the possibilities is fallacious.
where u get the if statements from, was that in the original questions?
I take reverse as used in this case simply means flip true and false... the reverse of (A is true, B is false) is (A is false, B is true). I don't see how else to interpret him add "reverse the statement". Not to mention only first statement had "AND' in it, every other one is just a comma which confuses things further. And I already said it makes more sense for TFFFF since following commonsense a statement can be false if just one of its parameter is wrong. But a lot of logic questions and puzzles requires you to strictly follow the words, and in this case "Reverse" is not too clear.
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The AND is simple. If Agent A speaks truth, then everything he says must be true. If Agent A makes statement i and statement ii, then i AND ii must be true. Therefore, if Statement 2 is true, both of its assertions must be true. Only one of them needs to be false for Statement 2 as a whole to be false.
Statement 2 says that statement 1 is false, 3 is true.
Truth table:
2 | 1 | 3 T | F | T F | F | F F | T | F F | T | T
Those are the possibilities given by Statement 2. Logically equivalent to AND. Q.E.D.
Also, if you're saying "reverse" means "break into atomic components and reverse each of those," then... well, that's not really a common way to interpret the word. What happens if you reverse a train? Do you turn the whole thing around, or the individual cars and re-link them, or maybe chop them into their constituent molecules and turn each one of those by 180 degrees on the XY plane?
The interpretation where we take the whole thing and flip the sign (negation) makes the most sense to me.
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Canada7170 Posts
Try two, although I still don't see what you mean, BottleAbuser. Unless you're referring to the "reverse" terminology used in the OP. + Show Spoiler + Assume 1 is true.. 2 is false 3 is false 4 is false 5 is false.
Assume 1 is false. Assume 2 is true 3 is true 4 is false 5 is true
Assume 1 is false Assume 2 is false 3 is then not true, that would make 2 true. But 3 cannot be false, or 1 would be true.
So I think my first two satisfy.
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On August 19 2008 14:15 mikeymoo wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Assume 5 is true. 3 and 1 are then true. But 1 says 3 is false. So 5 must be false. 3 is then false. so 2 is then false. Then 4 is false. 1 is true.
TFFFF
I was referring to this post. You have a statement "5 must be false. 3 is then false."
The second statement doesn't follow from the first - it would only if you also had such a statement like "3 is false if 5 is false," which we don't.
Probably you omitted some steps, and the conclusion isn't wrong, but the reasoning is incomplete.
Also, in your more recent post, you seem to say that 5 can be true, but it can't - 5 being true leads to contradiction.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On August 19 2008 12:21 anch wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FTFTF run the statement from 1 to 5 once.
Nope, is 2 is TRUE, 3 must be TRUE as well
On August 19 2008 10:58 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
statement 1) = OK statement 2) = OK statement 3) = OK statement 4) = 3 reverses to true! 2 stays the same false statement 5) = 3 stays the same and so does 1.
1 F 2 F 3 T 4 F 5 T
Ez  Check PLz  ?
On August 19 2008 13:16 sYz-Adrenaline wrote: F F T F T
Nope, cause if 5 is TRUE then 1 is TRUE also
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im satisfied that my friend gave me an unsolvable problem. from what i read here.... whatever =(
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my head hurts from this. give us another one.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On August 19 2008 19:26 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:im satisfied that my friend gave me an unsolvable problem. from what i read here....  whatever =(
Hey, you promised to post the answer later on =/
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I got a contradiction under the understanding that:
If something is true, then both of its arguments hold. If something is false, then both of its arguments are false, i.e. the opposite is what is actual.
If he means that only one or the two arguments can be false i.e.: ex: Cats are animals and Plants are animals - a false statement despite one of its premises being true... then I don't really feel like solving it which others have figured out.
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how are 1 and 5 linked together, not in 1 statement are they used at the same time.
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comma means AND. reverse means NOT.
example: statement 2 (1 is false, 3 is true) is false, reverse it: => NOT ( 1 false AND 3 true) => NOT(1 false) OR NOT(3 true) => 1 true OR 3 false.
edit: oh and TFFFF works.
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What if a statement is False just because ONE of the two variables is incorrect? that outta stir some shit up?
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Someone please close this thread. It's making me (and others) sad.
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On August 19 2008 06:29 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:try and figure out which statments are really true and which are really false.  enjoy... each true keeps the statement the same, each false reverses it. start with statement 1. statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is true. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true. ill give you guys a while to figure it out before posting the answer.  edit: hint, tally up all the true/false for each statement on a piece of paper as you go. Since you said start with one i will I assume 1 is true. This means that 2 and 3 are false, meaning 1 is true, and 4 is true. Except now 2 is true if four is true.
This means 1 is false, right? Well that means 2 and 3 are true. Which mean 2 and three are true. Which means 5 is true. Which means 1 is true. But we just figured out its false. No solution starting with 1.
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On August 19 2008 14:51 iamke55 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Only the first statement is true. Just start from Statement 5 and work your way up from that. He says start with one...
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On August 20 2008 02:20 MiniRoman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +1 and 5 true, the rest false
if 5 is T, 3 is also T, so it doesn't work
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Canada7170 Posts
On August 20 2008 01:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Someone please close this thread. It's making me (and others) sad. Yeah fuck this.
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+ Show Spoiler +Assuming 1 = true, 2 and 3 contain elements of falseness.
4 options:
yes, yes yes, no no, yes, no, no
if 2 is completely false, that means, 1 is true and 3 contains elements of falseness. ( which is what we want since it matches up with statement 1)
So far, we have established based on our 1st assumption,
1= completely true. 2= completely false.
If 3 contains elements of falseness, then there are only 3 possibilites. Since the given statement is "statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true." and that this is false, Only remaining is:
yes, yes yes, no no, no
SKipping ahead for a second, we want to maintain the fact that
1= completely true. 2= completely false.
Thus, with statement 4,"statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false." We want it to be false so that 2 will be false.
Since we have assumed 3 contains elements of falseness, the only remaining choice is (no, no) since (no, yes) is assumed false.
We now have:
1= completely true. 2= completely false. 3= Half True. (but still false)
Since statement 3 allows us to continue the assumption that statement 4 is false, that means we are able to conclude some information.
We know that the first part, 2=yes is false. What we don't know is whether the second part of the statement, 3 is false is true or not. However, since we already established 3 = half true, we can say the 2nd part of statement 4 is true.
We now have:
1= completely true. 2= completely false. 3= Half True. (but still false) 4= Half True ( but still false)
Statement 5 says 1= true. We must assume this to be true since it is the basis for everything. However, based from statement 3, we had established statement 5 is false. That means 3=yes is incorrect. Meaning 3 is false. ( Which we have established )
Thus
1=true 2=false 3=false 4=false 5=false
Is what I think the answer is.
I think this is right, does anyone have the 100% answer? ( my explanation may be a bit odd though.) I use yes = true, and no = false throughout it.
edit: When I first attempted it, I was operating solely with Completely True or Completely False. When I did this, I ended up going in a circle, since statements contradicted each other.
What i did in the spoiler, was assume that a False statement can still have truth in it.
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There is no answer to this puzzle, I can only only assume that it was meant to be typed:
statement 1) 2 and 3 are false. statement 2) 1 is false, 3 is false. statement 3) 4 is false, 5 is true. statement 4) 2 is true, 3 is false. statement 5) 1 is true, 3 is true.
p.s. X.xDeMoNiCx.X, I got nothing done at work 2day thanks to you, you baffoon  p.p.s. There is an actual answer to the above
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+ Show Spoiler +1 is true, rest are false
Hm, there's some discussion about what it means to be false. In terms of binary logic, statement 1 would be false if either 2 is true OR if 3 is true. But if that's not how you're defining the question, then it changes the answer...
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