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The China Politics Thread - Page 38
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allending2016
China11 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12021 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24376 Posts
On August 11 2022 18:38 Simberto wrote: The thing is, we have lots of different sources with lots of different positions. You extrapolate your situation to ours. That is not correct. Just because your media is all propaganda does not mean all media is. Can you give an example of media that you think isn't propaganda? | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17850 Posts
On August 11 2022 18:12 allending2016 wrote: the only resonable explaination is that president Xi really want to achieve the final unification in his term of service. And what if some of the lands that Xi wants to achieve "final unification" with do not want to be unified? On August 11 2022 20:38 GreenHorizons wrote: Can you give an example of media that you think isn't propaganda? I think what he meant is that while you still have propaganda in western media at least you're able to see different view points (left wing media vs right wing media for example) and regardless of where the media is leaning most of them are still able to publish pieces that criticize the government and its decisions. It appears that in China you can't say a bad thing about the CCP, regardless of your position. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6322 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
The most significant difference between china and the west that I think gets lost a lot in these conversations is that in the west there is an at least implied right to speech and press that is free from government punishment. The term "politically correct" comes from the wider base of what is socially acceptable. In china however this has a very very different connotation to meaning that if you say something "politically incorrect" you will be punished by the state that has no accountability to its people. trying to coop western terms to things in china that is woefully different than what it means is the west just hurts communication. Xi is a dictator that has no terms, just time until he is taken out of power. I have yet to see any credible reason why he would want to be the guy to take back taiwan militarily with how much damage it will cause the country. I can understand that Chinese people don't want to talk about the things in china that the ccp will come after them for talking about. that has to be understood that us in the west don't have those limitations and find it morally wrong to have the government stop us from talking about those things. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17850 Posts
To be honest I still think the majority of people can't do that, even in the west (might depend on the country and overall level of education) but there's enough people who can and they can kind of keep the media in check. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
On August 11 2022 18:38 Simberto wrote: The thing is, we have lots of different sources with lots of different positions. You extrapolate your situation to ours. That is not correct. Just because your media is all propaganda does not mean all media is. We have lots of different sources with lots of different positions too, especially today.The concept "we media" was created under the innovation of Web 2.0 technology, including a variety of personal Internet news application, in which blog, podcast, SNS and micro-blog are currently the most popular forms in China. And we have views from Japan/korea/india...too, not only English information sources. I am not extrapolate my situation to yours, our media is not all propaganda (like yours), as we hear views from many other countries including the west, I think we have a wider view on many things. Many chinese read japnese/korean too, we can easily visit their website with or without vpn. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
On August 11 2022 23:18 Sermokala wrote: I can understand that Chinese people don't want to talk about the things in china that the ccp will come after them for talking about. Actually we can talk about TW, but why TW topics is limited? The reason is complicated. there are 261,390 taiwan enterprises in mainland china, hiring millions of workers. What do we mainlanders would talk about taiwan? When to get it back? That will cause conflicts with people from taiwan, I think the goverment don't want to irritate the masses of taiwan excessively. on the biggest chinese forums, tieba ( 300million active accounts), we have political forums and taiwan forums, I am not sure if you can visit them but I will give links. https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=台湾 https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=航空母舰 the problem is this , when you post something politically sensetive, 6 of your 10 post will be deleted, so you are losing the interest to post more unless you learned how to avoid the keywords-censoring. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
On August 11 2022 22:32 Manit0u wrote: And what if some of the lands that Xi wants to achieve "final unification" with do not want to be unified? the final unification means - taiwan, no other lands. it is also the wish of 1.4billion chinese people. In the last 73 years since the kuomintang flee to taiwan with 2million refugees/troops, the taiwan ruling party never seeked independence in public until their recent goverments. The old people in taiwan still accept that tw is part of china, while their descendants, after decades of brainwash, believe they would better to get independence. The time advantage is on our side, so I think there will not be any real actions in 5-10 years if the international situation is stable. | ||
KwarK
United States44361 Posts
On August 12 2022 11:09 allending2016 wrote: the final unification means - taiwan, no other lands. it is also the wish of 1.4billion chinese people. In the last 73 years since the kuomintang flee to taiwan with 2million refugees/troops, the taiwan ruling party never seeked independence in public until their recent goverments. The old people in taiwan still accept that tw is part of china, while their descendants, after decades of brainwash, believe they would better to get independence. The time advantage is on our side, so I think there will not be any real actions in 5-10 years if the international situation is stable. They already are independent. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
And people in colony could be unwilling to be colonized, but what can stop it? only powers. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
On August 12 2022 11:18 KwarK wrote: They already are independent. you have the right so say that, but I didn't see her name on the list of UN. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On August 12 2022 10:31 allending2016 wrote: Actually we can talk about TW, but why TW topics is limited? The reason is complicated. there are 261,390 taiwan enterprises in mainland china, hiring millions of workers. What do we mainlanders would talk about taiwan? When to get it back? That will cause conflicts with people from taiwan, I think the goverment don't want to irritate the masses of taiwan excessively. on the biggest chinese forums, tieba ( 300million active accounts), we have political forums and taiwan forums, I am not sure if you can visit them but I will give links. https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=台湾 https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=航空母舰 the problem is this , when you post something politically sensetive, 6 of your 10 post will be deleted, so you are losing the interest to post more unless you learned how to avoid the keywords-censoring. You've got to be trolling, there's no way you can say that all our media is propaganda and you get some real stuff when you think that the ccp doesn't want to irritate Taiwan. They literally just shot missiles over the island while they surrounded it with naval exercises to kill off all the fish in their fishing grounds. They were constantly saying how Pelosi getting off the plane meant that they were going to invade. The wacky idea that the state with the great firewall somehow has wider access to information than the nations that invented web 2.0 is just silly. TW topics are limited because your government decides what you are allowed to talk about and what you are not allowed to talk about. They don't trust you to believe fully that Taiwan is a nation that wants to be independent and to not be invaded. They only allow their subjects to have the opinions they deem you worthy of having. The treaty ports weren't rented to the colonial powers they were just given to them to operate and build up as if they were apart of those countries. China is doing the same thing right now to countries with their belt and road debt traps. There is an argument that they probably shouldn't be given back with how the ccp likes to run over its citizens with tanks. | ||
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allending2016
China11 Posts
when I saw the word " trolling" I knew some punishment is coming in the name of justice from heaven | ||
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Simberto
Germany12021 Posts
On August 12 2022 11:09 allending2016 wrote: the final unification means - taiwan, no other lands. it is also the wish of 1.4billion chinese people. In the last 73 years since the kuomintang flee to taiwan with 2million refugees/troops, the taiwan ruling party never seeked independence in public until their recent goverments. The old people in taiwan still accept that tw is part of china, while their descendants, after decades of brainwash, believe they would better to get independence. The time advantage is on our side, so I think there will not be any real actions in 5-10 years if the international situation is stable. What about the people of Taiwan? You skirt around this issue, just like that last guy with the same talking points. Why do they not get to decide if they want to be part of the PRC? I view two countries merging kind of similar to sex. If both sides are okay with it, it can be a wonderful and good thing. If only one side wants it and the other is against it, it is rape. And it is utterly irrelevant how many people the sides consists of. A gangrape is still a rape. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17850 Posts
On August 12 2022 11:09 allending2016 wrote: The old people in taiwan still accept that tw is part of china, while their descendants, after decades of brainwash, believe they would better to get independence. The only party/political movement in Taiwan that wants to be part of China has 20k members (their own self-proclaimed number). That's not a lot of support for a population of 24 million. Not to mention the fact that it's a party created in China and led by a triad boss. The vast majority of Taiwanese people don't want to be a part of China. And as far as your statements about them not being in the UN, it's CCP's doing, Taiwan was one of the founding members of the UN. Also, since they have their own currency, passports accepted around the world, constitution and elected president they're a full blown independent country even if CCP forces others to say it isn't. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
With Pakistan running out of forex in two months I expect China to offer a bailout in exchange for Gwadar as a treaty port. Its pretty interesting to see China reinventing imperialism by not bothering to go to war even to take land from other countries. The real estate industry issues in china seem really scary most of the municipal governments base their budgets on land leases as well as massive piles of debt. If that industry goes against them it could make them insolvent fast. If tanks are on the streets this early how bad do they think the real situation is? | ||
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