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The China Politics Thread - Page 15

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Samsakzerg
Profile Joined October 2019
61 Posts
June 13 2022 10:11 GMT
#281
On June 13 2022 12:38 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2022 11:48 Samsakzerg wrote:
On June 13 2022 11:32 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
1,Most Chinese people love their country,Not everyone loves their government and the Communist Party。Many people who are not familiar with China do not know this。
2,A small number of Chinese people come here to debate, not for the sake of the Chinese government, but just to share the facts of China normally. Or a small number of people who come to China to live, work and study also say what China is like. They are forbidden.
3,I have not the slightest comment on your criticism of the Chinese government or the Communist Party of China. The only thing I have to say is that you slander China. Some false information has shielded your eyes.



I am an Uyghur from Xinjiang China, I lived there for nearly 20 years before moving to a western country.

Can I talk about China? Can I talk about Xinjiang and Uyghurs?

I think you cant say I dont have any idea about china, not familiar with china etc right?

No one is saying shit about China, the Chinese nation, the people, or the Han chinese. People are debating some unfortunate mistakes that are occuring right now in China.

All countries in this world make mistakes, some learn from them, some dont. Some commit the same mistakes as others and blame the others for it, "you did it, I will do it too"

It is more dispicble knowing something is wrong from history yet still comitting it.

Uyghurs, Tibetans, Taiwanese and HongKongers don't want to be part of China. It is a fact. China should take their money and development and the China dream back to mainland China, be happy and prosper, but leave the others alone who dont want to be part of it.


It's not true, even today, to say that Hong Kongers do not want to be part of China. There is indeed a small but vocal voice that demands independence but that is still outside the mainstream. Most Hong Kongers just want to be left alone to govern their own affairs and live their lives.


Funny to say this when CCP and their guns are breathing down everyone's neck who dares say anything they truely feel in China.

I heard the "small number of" waaay too many times while I was living in China. "Ji ge bie" "yi xiao bu fen" "shao shu min zu"... If you disagree, or feel different, then congrats you are small, and wrong and powerless.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42495 Posts
June 13 2022 14:28 GMT
#282
“Hong Kongers don’t want to be outside China, they just want to be external to China”
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11458 Posts
June 13 2022 14:41 GMT
#283
I mean, i think that is not wrong.

If i understand correctly, Hong Kongers would greatly prefer to be inside of China, but governing themselves, instead of being governed by Peking. That position has been pretty beneficial to Hong Kong when it had it.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42495 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-13 15:06:23
June 13 2022 15:03 GMT
#284
Sure but it’s missing the whole of the point. The only issue they have with being part of the PRC is that they’re part of the PRC but if you ignore that then they have no complaints with being part of the PRC. The majority of people in Hong Kong want to be in the PRC, they just don’t like being part of the PRC.

A small minority demand independence but the majority just want the right to control their own affairs. It’s an impressive level of double think. On the one hand the people of Hong Kong clearly want to be left alone by Peking but on the other they’re not interested in independence.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5536 Posts
June 13 2022 15:36 GMT
#285
On June 13 2022 23:41 Simberto wrote:
I mean, i think that is not wrong.

If i understand correctly, Hong Kongers would greatly prefer to be inside of China, but governing themselves, instead of being governed by Peking. That position has been pretty beneficial to Hong Kong when it had it.

HK could have similar benefits from having a trade agreement with PRC while being independent.
emperorofwild
Profile Joined July 2019
87 Posts
June 13 2022 15:54 GMT
#286
On June 12 2022 16:23 Blue Light wrote:
I can't stop shaking my head, feel sorry, and...
I'm out of words
1st have you been to China and actually live there?
(I have, I was sent there to learn the language for 1.5 year than back and fort for business)
2nd if you listen to Winston Sterzel a.k.a SerpentZA and believe things that he said...
(the dude is a conman and a white supremacist)
3rd if you listen to those anti China main stream media like Sky News, Fox, CNN, Washington Post, and other western main stream media about China... well...

From my experience, westerners, specially Americans have what non westerners consider brainwash by their government about their view of non western nation/people, and especially when it comes to China/Chinese (and Russian, which right now become a sensitive topic, sot gonna touch the Russia issue atm), maybe coz of those coldwar mentality still lingers on americans, western people in general or countries under heavy western influence like Japan or South Korea, so it's easy to convince those who were raise by western believe that every thing that those surviving eastern power do is bad, evil only by a snap of a finger.

China issue:

Taiwan? dude, it an ongoing civil war, leave them be, let them solve it by their own, US been meddling and try to influence china since before the WWII, putting their bets on sadly the loosing side who runs to Taiwan island, the time when US imperialism on China is long gone, US always love the weak and corrupt government of Taiwan coz US still have the dream of colonizing the entire east Asia, Japan, South Korea are practically under US control, I know some, countries, not china btw, even called Japan and Korea as US lapdog, only if only Taiwan can win their civil war, the dream will be fulfill, so until Taiwan wins, forever and ever Taiwan will be US tool, puppets and bargaining chip in regards of China

Xinjiang?
Been to Xinjiang. 3 times, 1 with a tour group, twice for business visit to buy and sign deals with the Xinjiang locals, not Han Chinese, but an actually Xinjiang local farmers and businessman, base on what I saw, how the people living their lives, those abuse, oppressions story by those east Turkmenistan activist, free Xinjiang, etc etc make me wanna puke! Xinjiang human right issue are totally made up, funded by NED, while the NED is funded by the US state Department...
just google it yourself, I quote some I found by goggling it
"This allocation comes from within the budget of USAID, the U.S. agency for development assistance, which is part of the U.S. State Department."
"22 Jan 2004 — Though the NED is officially a private, nongovernmental organization, it gets the lion's share of its funding from the U.S. Treasury; last year, "
Testimony, from those so called witness who escape Xinjiang, after what happens with the testimony leading to invasion of Iraq & the fact that they are part of a movement group made by NED, well, IMO they are the joke of the century.
not buying any of it or the drama which they still trying HARD to sell

HongKong?
China lost the opium war, force to sign the Unequal treaty (en.wikipedia.org), hongkong is part of china, was just taken by force, got rape, and end up experiencing Stockholm syndrome, loving their british/western captors, never once during British occupation hongkongers ever given chance to have an election, now that hongkong do have an election the western countries said democracy being suppress in hongkong, get real...
Hongkong riots before covid and how the it was dealt? izzit a violation of humans rights or izzit those rioters just wayyyyy out of line? here is one to consider, not from chinese media, but from western media www.youtube.com
And, why not comparing the latest riot with 1967 Hong Kong riots under british rule and how it was handle by the democratic western system?

0-Covid
All I know from my Chinese colleague there, it's not how its describe by the western media, it's more of trying to prevent incontrollable spread, there will be case, but how to manage it from spreading like crazy, extreme case like Shanghai lockdown is the last resort.
The goals of their 0-Covid strategy is to buy time for the virus to die down or under control or until there is a more effective vaccine, medication or treatment, so, the number of cases won't go crazy like in the US,
if I remember correctly, the number of covid cases in the US is around 25% of the total population,
if say the same percentage applied on China 1.4 billion population,
it will be 350 million cases,
with this days covid mortality rate of 1.3%,
it will be 4.5million people dead,
the 0-Covid strategy and lockdown in an extreme case, actually saves millions of Chinese people lives

FYI, I'm not pro China or anti West, nothing is perfect,
the only reason I reply to this issue simply becoz the argument is dead wrong,
people get fooled easily when it comes to china issue,
I admit, before I went to China, I was one of China hatters, things change when I actually comes there, and willing to actually look for more information before I took the poisonous words come from the western mainstream media or those like SerpentZA (I was his subscriber before I went to China myself lol)

It's hard to see the truth when all the information you receive are all unbalance, wrong, and in the end, I believe you end up with what Psychologist called Cognitive bias (I think, I'm not a Psychologist, just remember someone talk about it somewhere)
In the end we believe what we want to believe,
so... Peace dudes

User was banned for this post.

Why this guy is banned??
In Weibo,at Russian-Ukraine war, we can see people support both sides,we can see official accounts of both country post their information.
What did this guy done?worse than support Russia?or here has more "censorship" than Chinese internet?
is this what "freedom of speach" is?
That what I have said,no need to care what you say about us,you just represent a tiny little part of people.
ban me pls ,I only need to check starcraftII match infor here


User was temp banned for this post.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17238 Posts
June 13 2022 15:58 GMT
#287
I assume that person was banned for a lot of ad hominem remarks and throwing out some random facts without any sources to back them up and making it "the absolute truth".
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2602 Posts
June 13 2022 16:07 GMT
#288
On June 14 2022 00:03 KwarK wrote:
Sure but it’s missing the whole of the point. The only issue they have with being part of the PRC is that they’re part of the PRC but if you ignore that then they have no complaints with being part of the PRC. The majority of people in Hong Kong want to be in the PRC, they just don’t like being part of the PRC.

A small minority demand independence but the majority just want the right to control their own affairs. It’s an impressive level of double think. On the one hand the people of Hong Kong clearly want to be left alone by Peking but on the other they’re not interested in independence.


You are the one missing the point.
You're just talking out of your ass at this point about a topic that you know nothing about while I have lived through it.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42495 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-13 16:11:45
June 13 2022 16:07 GMT
#289
His post was mostly disagreeing with some YouTuber called Winston that nobody else was talking about. I think he confused TL with the comment section for that guy’s YouTube videos. It was non stop bad takes (countries should be able to do whatever they like without external judgement if it’s an internal matter?) and lies but I think the bit that most likely annoyed the wrong person was the general attitude of “I’m right, y’all are wrong, anyway peace I’m out”.

Also freedom of speech relates to the government not imprisoning you for saying things they don’t like. Not TL mods.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42495 Posts
June 13 2022 16:08 GMT
#290
On June 14 2022 01:07 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2022 00:03 KwarK wrote:
Sure but it’s missing the whole of the point. The only issue they have with being part of the PRC is that they’re part of the PRC but if you ignore that then they have no complaints with being part of the PRC. The majority of people in Hong Kong want to be in the PRC, they just don’t like being part of the PRC.

A small minority demand independence but the majority just want the right to control their own affairs. It’s an impressive level of double think. On the one hand the people of Hong Kong clearly want to be left alone by Peking but on the other they’re not interested in independence.


You are the one missing the point.
You're just talking out of your ass at this point about a topic that you know nothing about while I have lived through it.

Dude, we get it. The people of Hong Kong don’t want independence, they just want to be left alone to govern themselves. Couldn’t be simpler.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2497 Posts
June 14 2022 01:11 GMT
#291
I’ m surprised no one has mentioned Tibet in this thread yet;

Are we just going to ignore how occupying militarily a peaceful Buddhist country is just legitimate now?

shows real courage, at least bully a country that has an actual army and defenses, not some spiritual center. Weak
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13858 Posts
June 14 2022 01:32 GMT
#292
On June 14 2022 10:11 pebble444 wrote:
I’ m surprised no one has mentioned Tibet in this thread yet;

Are we just going to ignore how occupying militarily a peaceful Buddhist country is just legitimate now?

shows real courage, at least bully a country that has an actual army and defenses, not some spiritual center. Weak

It's so much worse then that. They refuse to cooperate with the dali lama and allow him to live in tibet in peace. This has gone on for so long that the current dali lama has said that he can no longer guarantee to his people that the reincarnation cycle of their religion can reliably continue.

China is literally going to perminatly damage Buddhism out of spite. This would be the equivalent of destroying the dome on the rock or marching non Muslim troops through mecca to take the black rock away from mecca.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2602 Posts
June 14 2022 01:51 GMT
#293
On June 14 2022 10:11 pebble444 wrote:
I’ m surprised no one has mentioned Tibet in this thread yet;

Are we just going to ignore how occupying militarily a peaceful Buddhist country is just legitimate now?

shows real courage, at least bully a country that has an actual army and defenses, not some spiritual center. Weak


The reality is a lot more complicated.

Tibet was independent from China until the Qing Dynasty when it was conquered. The Qing sent governers to rule Tibet, while the Lamas continued to serve as figureheads.

When the Qing Dynasty was overthrown, there was chaos in China. No one really had much spare capacity to deal with Tibet, so in practice they ruled themselves, though the government never relinquished their territorial claims.

When finally the Communists won the Civil War in mainland China, they turned their attention to what they considered a renegade province and decided they should formally implement their Communist system in Tibet. The Dalai Lama rejected this and was forced into exile.

Was it a forced occupation? Yes. Was it an independent country to begin with? No. Even the Dalai Lama does not advocate for formal independence. He is for true self government.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17238 Posts
June 14 2022 02:15 GMT
#294
On June 14 2022 10:51 gobbledydook wrote:
Was it a forced occupation? Yes. Was it an independent country to begin with? No. Even the Dalai Lama does not advocate for formal independence. He is for true self government.


But isn't self government a form of independence?
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 14 2022 03:52 GMT
#295
--- Nuked ---
[JXSA].Zergling
Profile Joined July 2020
China186 Posts
June 14 2022 14:18 GMT
#296
The period of the Chinese Cultural Revolution was a turbulent one, from 1966 to 1976. The so-called religious persecution may refer to that period.
In 1983, China began to crack down on all kinds of crimes. After that, Chinese society became stable and ushered in reform and opening up.At this time, China began to develop at a high speed.
Although China is a one party dictatorship, there are actually two factions within it. Similar to the United States, there are Republicans and Democrats. Muslims also have Shiites and Sunnis.
There are many corrupt elements in the Chinese government who are caught every year. However, some people say that they are victims of factional struggle.
If you want to hear about the various problems of the Chinese government, I am also happy to tell you what the problems are. But many problems do not exist now. They happened 50 years ago.
China is also constantly making progress. If it were the same as it was 50 years ago, China would not be targeted by many countries now. Instead, it would pity China, sympathize with China, and look at us with the eyes of refugees.
China's space program has been advancing, China's high-speed rail is also very good, and China also has many other good things.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11458 Posts
June 14 2022 14:40 GMT
#297
The core problem here is that you see people saying that a bad thing happens in China, and view this as
"China is being targeted by other countries, because China is too successful".

Consider viewing stuff through another lense. Maybe some bad things happen in China, and that is why people say that some bad things happen in China?

And maybe countries adjacent to China feel threatened by China because China is threatening them, not because they are jealous of Chinas success?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23128 Posts
June 14 2022 14:48 GMT
#298
Although China is a one party dictatorship, there are actually two factions within it. Similar to the United States, there are Republicans and Democrats.

After seeing the Serpentza guy (he's like a Great Value Tucker Carlson) around here it made me wonder more about this.

From what I understand there's basically the "league faction" and the "princelings". I'm curious how you would describe their different perspectives?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17238 Posts
June 14 2022 14:59 GMT
#299
On June 14 2022 23:18 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
The period of the Chinese Cultural Revolution was a turbulent one, from 1966 to 1976. The so-called religious persecution may refer to that period.

China's high-speed rail is also very good, and China also has many other good things.


China is removing religious symbols from buildings (like fronts of temples etc.) so it's not like they've ceased thwarting religion.

And their high-speed rail is pretty much a dumpster fire at this point. Sure, they developed their rail at an incredible pace but most of it was for show with rails leading nowhere and high cost routes paying for routes that are unsustainable. Now with COVID no routes are profitable any more so a lot of it has become a big liability that's going deeper and deeper into debt. It's $800 billion liability at this point or something crazy like that.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-14 16:36:13
June 14 2022 16:35 GMT
#300
On June 14 2022 23:59 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2022 23:18 [JXSA].Zergling wrote:
The period of the Chinese Cultural Revolution was a turbulent one, from 1966 to 1976. The so-called religious persecution may refer to that period.

China's high-speed rail is also very good, and China also has many other good things.


China is removing religious symbols from buildings (like fronts of temples etc.) so it's not like they've ceased thwarting religion.

And their high-speed rail is pretty much a dumpster fire at this point. Sure, they developed their rail at an incredible pace but most of it was for show with rails leading nowhere and high cost routes paying for routes that are unsustainable. Now with COVID no routes are profitable any more so a lot of it has become a big liability that's going deeper and deeper into debt. It's $800 billion liability at this point or something crazy like that.


Eh, the bolded part in particular isn't important - it's about the overall cost/benefit. Not only on ticket sales but also overall economic activity. (I have no idea about the overall numbers but at least prior to covid it must have been a net positive otherwise it wouldn't be pursued by a rational government.) Economic arguments aside, high speed rail likely reduces carbon emissions, especially compared to air travel.
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