EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 616
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On October 28 2023 12:05 Salazarz wrote: I mean, if this is how you feel about zeo's posting, why even engage with it? The constant 'zeo sucks!' posts are absurd and bring nothing to the conversation. And surely, posting rumors from crappy telegram channels because 'zeo also does it' is not the way to make the discussion better, either. Maybe it's a personal thing, or a cultural one. Where I come from, remaining quiet and unengaged with fascist apologists is not okay or desirable. That's how you enable those people; that's how you make it okay for those elements to remain within your community and society, where they can fester and rot the entire fucking thing. That is how you get an apolitical culture similar to Russia. I believe that in a community it is everyone's duty to create an environment hostile to those who are harmful to it. In a tolerant society, you cannot give a platform to the intolerant simply because it is not their goal to become a part of said society but actively harm it. In a community that subscribes to values of basic human decency, you cannot make place for people who tacitly cheer for genocide. Because those people do not share your values. They don't hold themselves to the same standard. They don't care about engaging in an honest discussion with you. Their contribution is worthless at best, and utterly destructive at its worst. And so I don't agree with your assessment that "zeo sucks!" posts bring nothing to the conversation. I think the conversation would be a much more fruitful one if we didn't get zeo's fanfiction and disinformation and attempts to derail any given conversation every couple pages. If there is a nazi in a bar trying to sit at peoples' tables to become part of the conversations, until management decides that it doesn't want nazis in their bar anymore, it's okay for people to remind each other every now and then to not engage with the nazi in their midst and become aware that it is, indeed, a nazi. | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
On October 28 2023 06:46 zeo wrote: Why are you so defensive about not being allowed to openly lie about a subject? I welcome any scrutiny regarding anything that I post. Feel free to look into everything I write and tell me I'm wrong, or tell me I'm right. Any new angle on a subject I'm interested about is very welcome if it comes backed up with the bare minimum or its your own opinion. I'm not so insecure to lash out because someone has an opinion different than my one. Even if your opinion is completely wrong its miles better than just low effort copy-pasting the most brain-dead crap imaginable that a 5 year old could debunk within one minute. When your first reaction is 'w-w-well the other side is lying toooo!' it shows deep insecurities about what you believe in and maybe you should reevaluate the kind of content you consume and find some trustworthy sources. Hold yourself to a higher standard than you expect from others. You might want to read my comment again. I'm not being defensive about not being allowed to openly lie, I'm calling you out for continuously openly lying about any and every subject you talk about. You don't welcome any scrutiny. Whenever you get called out you do a combination of using logical fallacies/going for weird gotchas/dip out the conversation for a few days entirely. That's not allowing scrutiny. Even if your opinion is completely wrong its miles better than just low effort copy-pasting the most brain-dead crap imaginable that a 5 year old could debunk within one minute. You literally do nothing but copy/paste lies and Kremlin propaganda. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. I'm not saying "the other side is lying too". I'm saying you, zeo, specifically, do nothing but lie, and you pretending to have the moral high ground is fucking ridiculous. Hold yourself to a higher standard than you expect from others. Follow your own advice. | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6342 Posts
On October 28 2023 16:10 Nezgar wrote: I believe that in a community it is everyone's duty to create an environment hostile to those who are harmful to it. In a tolerant society, you cannot give a platform to the intolerant simply because it is not their goal to become a part of said society but actively harm it. In a community that subscribes to values of basic human decency, you cannot make place for people who tacitly cheer for genocide. Because those people do not share your values. They don't hold themselves to the same standard. They don't care about engaging in an honest discussion with you. Their contribution is worthless at best, and utterly destructive at its worst. This paragraph is extremely worrying, not only for you but the people around you also. You really don't take a step back and read what you are writing? I try not to feed you because all you do is backseat moderate but shit man, I suggest you read up on cult like behaviors Devaluing the outsider: The security of a cult is bound up with the idea of being special, better than those outside the group. Indeed, outsiders are likely to be seen as threatening since they do not share the cult’s belief in the leader and in the special entitlement of its members. This threat is met by devaluing the non-believers. In part, this devaluation is an expression of the child’s wish that his or her parents be the most powerful, that they know everything and can obtain for their children good things which others do not have. Furthermore, feeling blessed and favored confers a sense of protection, calming anxieties about the world outside. ------- When one devalues another no real proof is offered. There is seldom any inquiry into the actual statements and actions of members of the “bad” group, or any serious consideration of the adversary’s point of view and its possible validity, and critical analysis of one’s own “good” view, discriminating between assumptions and facts, rarely takes place. On October 28 2023 16:49 Mikau wrote: I'm not saying "the other side is lying too". I'm saying you, zeo, specifically, do nothing but lie, and you pretending to have the moral high ground is fucking ridiculous. I think the reason your ad hominem attacks are falling flat on their face(s) is because they have no substance to them. Its only mindless repeating of buzzwords at this point. You could have at least given an example of one of these 'all I do is lie' posts. Because if you have one its a cherry picked line from a year ago with no context like I'm supposed to be Nostradamus with every take. | ||
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ZeroByte13
796 Posts
On October 28 2023 19:02 sertas wrote: While being a tank crew must indeed be horrifying, at this rate this reserve will last another 2-3 years.seems Russia has around 3500 tanks left to use and are losing about 75 per month on average. Though there won't be any experienced tank crews after some time, I guess, so losses might increase. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7170 Posts
On October 28 2023 19:08 zeo wrote: This paragraph is extremely worrying, not only for you but the people around you also. You really don't take a step back and read what you are writing? I try not to feed you because all you do is backseat moderate but shit man, I suggest you read up on cult like behaviors Devaluing the outsider: The security of a cult is bound up with the idea of being special, better than those outside the group. Indeed, outsiders are likely to be seen as threatening since they do not share the cult’s belief in the leader and in the special entitlement of its members. This threat is met by devaluing the non-believers. In part, this devaluation is an expression of the child’s wish that his or her parents be the most powerful, that they know everything and can obtain for their children good things which others do not have. Furthermore, feeling blessed and favored confers a sense of protection, calming anxieties about the world outside. ------- When one devalues another no real proof is offered. There is seldom any inquiry into the actual statements and actions of members of the “bad” group, or any serious consideration of the adversary’s point of view and its possible validity, and critical analysis of one’s own “good” view, discriminating between assumptions and facts, rarely takes place. I think the reason your ad hominem attacks are falling flat on their face(s) is because they have no substance to them. Its only mindless repeating of buzzwords at this point. You could have at least given an example of one of these 'all I do is lie' posts. Because if you have one its a cherry picked line from a year ago with no context like I'm supposed to be Nostradamus with every take. Have you tried not being a fascist sympathizer? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On October 28 2023 19:33 ZeroByte13 wrote: While being a tank crew must indeed be horrifying, at this rate this reserve will last another 2-3 years. Though there won't be any experienced tank crews after some time, I guess, so losses might increase. They'd also increase if Russia goes on the offensive again. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5811 Posts
On October 28 2023 19:33 ZeroByte13 wrote: While being a tank crew must indeed be horrifying, at this rate this reserve will last another 2-3 years. Though there won't be any experienced tank crews after some time, I guess, so losses might increase. Not to mention the fact that Russia is digging deeper and deeper into their old Soviet stock. There's only so much they can do in terms of upgrading that junk. | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
On October 28 2023 22:00 maybenexttime wrote: Not to mention the fact that Russia is digging deeper and deeper into their old Soviet stock. There's only so much they can do in terms of upgrading that junk. As the video mention the reason so many t64 and t55 are being pulled from storage is due to how easy they are to repair. Many places can repair those tanks and fix them up while the T72 is very limited to one factory in russia that can install all the parts. So there's a bottleneck in the time to upgrade a T72 and bring it to the front, while T64 has no bottleneck. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On October 28 2023 19:08 zeo wrote: This paragraph is extremely worrying, not only for you but the people around you also. You really don't take a step back and read what you are writing? I try not to feed you because all you do is backseat moderate but shit man, I suggest you read up on cult like behaviors Devaluing the outsider: The security of a cult is bound up with the idea of being special, better than those outside the group. Indeed, outsiders are likely to be seen as threatening since they do not share the cult’s belief in the leader and in the special entitlement of its members. This threat is met by devaluing the non-believers. In part, this devaluation is an expression of the child’s wish that his or her parents be the most powerful, that they know everything and can obtain for their children good things which others do not have. Furthermore, feeling blessed and favored confers a sense of protection, calming anxieties about the world outside. ------- When one devalues another no real proof is offered. There is seldom any inquiry into the actual statements and actions of members of the “bad” group, or any serious consideration of the adversary’s point of view and its possible validity, and critical analysis of one’s own “good” view, discriminating between assumptions and facts, rarely takes place. I think the reason your ad hominem attacks are falling flat on their face(s) is because they have no substance to them. Its only mindless repeating of buzzwords at this point. You could have at least given an example of one of these 'all I do is lie' posts. Because if you have one its a cherry picked line from a year ago with no context like I'm supposed to be Nostradamus with every take. He’s not devaluing all outsiders, he’s devaluing a specific political position. Most of your posts purport to be military analysis, but it’s extremely obvious how much glee you take in any Russian success, and how eager you are to deny or discount any Ukrainian success. It’s not hard to understand; you support Russia and oppose Ukraine, and all of your analysis is colored by that. If people want to know what’s happening in the war, it tends to make your posts a bit useless, because whatever happens you’re going to read it as a great victory for Russia. IIRC it was like a year ago you were singing the praises of the Russians for “breaking the back” of the Ukrainian military in Bakhmut, how impressive it was to carry on the longest-running combined arms operation in history or whatever. That was all facially absurd as dispassionate analysis, but completely unsurprising coming from someone who just wants to praise Russia and declare victory no matter what happens. But at the end of the day I don’t think Nezgar’s problem is your biased analysis, and I certainly don’t think it’s generically shunning outsiders. It’s that Vladimir Putin and the Russian government decided to invade a sovereign neighbor country, massacre its population and topple its government, either to annex the territory directly or install a puppet regime loyal to Moscow. You looked at all that and thought “yes, good, I love this, I hope they succeed as soon as possible.” | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
I think the reason your ad hominem attacks are falling flat on their face(s) is because they have no substance to them. Its only mindless repeating of buzzwords at this point. You could have at least given an example of one of these 'all I do is lie' posts. Because if you have one its a cherry picked line from a year ago with no context like I'm supposed to be Nostradamus with every take. Just like you clearly don't know what a strawman is, you also don't seem to know what an ad hominem is. I am attacking the way you argue, not your character. The rest is just classic projection. And I don't have to give you just one example, because literally every single one of your posts here is exactly like that. Literally every single one. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9538 Posts
When replying, please focus on the contents of the post you're replying to, not the person who posted it. Thank you. | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
But you're right, I should probably just not post in this particular thread anymore if I can't behave myself around the Kremlin propaganda posting fascist that inexplicably is still welcome here. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5811 Posts
User was warned for this post Edit: @2Pacalypse I am on topic. I commented on the content of zeo's posts. WTF is your problem. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9538 Posts
On October 29 2023 03:27 maybenexttime wrote: Edit: @2Pacalypse I am on topic. I commented on the content of zeo's posts. WTF is your problem. The topic of this thread is "Russo-Ukrainian War", not zeo's posting style. I specifically said to knock it off with this meta-discussion, and yet you did it right after. With some backseat moderation thrown in for good measure. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5811 Posts
On October 29 2023 05:48 2Pacalypse- wrote: The topic of this thread is "Russo-Ukrainian War", not zeo's posting style. I specifically said to knock it off with this meta-discussion, and yet you did it right after. With some backseat moderation thrown in for good measure. How about you do your job and stop letting an obvious troll shit up the thread. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8257 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The Dagestan airport is still not secure btw. | ||
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