Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 615

On October 27 2023 03:15 KwarK wrote:
Every warmonger in history has insisted that they only want peace and that those standing up to them are forcing them into a war. Russia has invaded Chechnya, Georgia, and Ukraine twice. If closing your eyes and not sending aud to the victims was a solid way of ensuring peace then by 2022 all the accumulated appeasement should have created a world overflowing with peace.

Not arming the countries that Russia invades was repeatedly tried as a policy. Peace was not achieved. Only the very slowest learners in the classroom are still saying that we’ll have peace if only people stop resisting.

On October 27 2023 05:47 sertas wrote:
Maybe ukraine destroyed some S400 using atacms:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17h44x6/russian_telegram_channels_report_that_the_video/

On October 27 2023 15:53 Mikau wrote:
"It can't be true because this different Tweet by a different person about a different subject is likely bullshit" is an awful rebuttal, even by your standards zeo.

But I'm glad you've given up even the pretense of arguing based on merit now.

On October 27 2023 15:53 Mikau wrote:
"It can't be true because this different Tweet by a different person about a different subject is likely bullshit" is an awful rebuttal, even by your standards zeo.

But I'm glad you've given up even the pretense of arguing based on merit now.

On October 27 2023 17:26 Salazarz wrote:


How do you even 'argue based on merit' with an unsourced rumor posted by a random troll telegram channel?

On October 27 2023 17:44 Acrofales wrote:
zeo is being particularly zeo-y, but he's mostly trying to point out that the sources stealthblue and sertas quoted for the claim that some S300s were destroyed by ATACMS are not credible twitter accounts.

On October 27 2023 18:27 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:


To be fair if we hold everyone to the same standard a tweet from a random account showing *something* exploding is a completely bullshit source.

"Trust me bro we hit an s400" is only sligthly worse than "This could have been an S400".

On October 27 2023 18:44 Mikau wrote:







This would be great, if this line of reasoning would stop him from sourcing his own Kremlin propaganda with random Twitter sources. He is the literal last person in this thread who should use that particular argument.

On October 27 2023 20:29 zeo wrote:

Dude, what kind of argument is that even?

Accepting or denying anything based solely on 'which side they are on' is stupid. Full stop. Applying reason and a grain of doubt to whatever you consume is a positive thing, I think thats not a controversial opinion to have.

Hypothetically you have a source that you know is biased post a video of two tanks comming under fire and exploading. If the text above the video says 'two enemy tanks coming under fire both were destroyed, geolocated to xyz' there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Doesnt matter who you support, thing happened... biased language sure, but it happened, you can claim its an old video ect but again...

Completely different than putting the headline 'massive destruction of the enemy meat waves at least 2000 dead in one day, 100 tanks destroyed, they'll all be fertillizer soon lol look at this vid' on the same video of the two tanks. Yes Im going to the extreme but you get the gist of it. There is a difference because hyperbole is incentivized by people that seek confirmation bias. Shitty people are rewarded for being lieing pieces of shit.

When a biased source posts an opinion it should be treated only as an opinion and scrutinized based on the track record of the account and their area of expertise. This isnt complicated, its not denying everything comming from x or y side its just asking for and keeping in mind context.

Blatant lies and 'trust me bros' based on dogshit should not even be reaching the point where you unironically post it here and claim that it happened. Id like to think the average TL poster has enough sense to look at a screenshot of a Russian language post comming from who knows the fuck from where without even a name on it and not think 'gee, this is Russia admitting to losing 3 whole S400 batteries'...

We are all human and make mistakes but it has to be at least somewhere on the scale of plausability.

Oct 27 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Friday Russian forces have lost at least a brigade worth of troops trying to advance on Ukraine's eastern town of Avdiivka.

Russia renewed a push to encircle the embattled town in mid-October, trying to overwhelm Ukrainian positions with constant barrages of artillery and waves of troops and fighting vehicles, according to local and military authorities in Ukraine.

"The invaders made several attempts to surround Avdiivka, but each time our soldiers stopped them and threw them back, causing painful losses. In these cases, the enemy lost at least a brigade," Zelenskiy told British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak in a phone call, the president's office said in a statement.

Reuters could not independently verify the assertion and there was no immediate comment from Russia.

Brigades vary in size and can number between 1,500 and 8,000 troops. Battlefield losses are a state secret in Russia and Ukraine, though they are believed to run into the many tens of thousands on both sides since Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Russian military bloggers have reported territorial gains by Moscow's troops in the area, while Ukraine has described the situation as extremely difficult and said Moscow was throwing a huge number of forces into the assault.

Russia's offensive at Adviivka has become the battlefield focus nearly five months after Kyiv launched a counteroffensive in the occupied south and east. Kyiv has made slower progress than it wanted to due to vast Russian trenches and minefields, but it continues to report small gains in the strategic south.

The Institute for the Study of War, an American non-profit research group, said on Thursday that Russia had taken heavy losses in equipment near Avdiivka that would "likely undermine Russian offensive capabilities over the long term".

In a battlefield update on Friday, the Ukrainian General Staff said the military "steadfastly holds the defence and causes significant losses" to Russian troops, adding they were not giving up in their attempts to encircle the town.

Avdiivka, about 25 km (16 miles) from Russian-occupied Donetsk, is surrounded by Russian-held territory to the north, east and south, leaving only its west for Kyiv's troops to resupply and evacuate people.

The town, which is home to a vast coking plant, has been under attack since 2014 when conflict first broke out between Ukraine and Russian-backed forces. Vitaliy Barabash, head of Avdiivka's military administration, said the renewed attacks to capture the town were the largest since 2014.

On October 28 2023 02:52 Mikau wrote:


The problem is you only apply that opinion to the sources of other people, and never to your own sources.

The problem here isn't whether or not you have that view on sourcing, the problem is the selective and hypocritical way you apply that reasoning.

You can either shut the fuck up about the quality of people's sources, or you can start to argue using non-garbage sources yourself. Can't have it both ways.

On October 28 2023 03:38 Nezgar wrote:
Bold of you to assume that zeo is interested in an honest discussion.
His entire schtick is parroting Russian propaganda, trying to gaslight the victims, playing gotcha whenever someone posts something from a dubious source, arguing against points that no one made simply because those are the current pro-Russian talking points, and then fucking right off again. He is playing a different game and it is utterly pointless to try to argue with him or refute his points or... anything, really.
He is not here to engage in honest discussion. You are trying to apply reason to and argue with a troll. He is here to waste your time, sow doubt and generally shit up the place. He is the pigeon on the chessboard.

On October 28 2023 12:07 Mohdoo wrote:
It is day 500 and I still have no idea what telegram is. How does it seem to have zero content moderation/censorship etc?

On October 28 2023 12:05 Salazarz wrote:


I mean, if this is how you feel about zeo's posting, why even engage with it? The constant 'zeo sucks!' posts are absurd and bring nothing to the conversation. And surely, posting rumors from crappy telegram channels because 'zeo also does it' is not the way to make the discussion better, either.