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On September 15 2023 21:21 Simberto wrote:
Dude. What are you talking about?
I want to talk about the complete debacle of an offencive and its repercussions on the future of this conflict. Though we can see the coping mechasims in the past few pages where a few are trying to talk very hard about everything except the failed offencive. This stemming from a lack of empathy toward the people they are egging on dieing in large numbers. Easiest to talk about anything except for that.
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On September 15 2023 21:18 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 21:05 Gorsameth wrote:On September 15 2023 21:00 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 20:23 sertas wrote:
zeo you want ukraine to just surrender to russia and let them annex all of ukraine right?
It really sounds like you think ukraine shouldn't fight for their country but I just want to be sure that's what you want, because it's very interesting and insane if that's what you think. Ukrainians are not fighting for the country they are fighting for their regime that is the main difference. At no point ever was Ukraine at risk of not existing, the only people under existential threat are their political elite and they are putting warm bodies between them and their fall from positions where they can steal the peoples money. Political systems built around hate a racial purity always end up like this. Its incredibly naive propaganda to say Ukraine as a state was somehow under threat of not existing after 26.02. but anything, even the most off the wall stupidity can be pushed because there is no space for rational thinking anymore. Germany and Italy as states or as nations didnt stop existing after WW2, their political system did. France didnt stop existing after Napoleon. Ireland didnt stop existing though we all know what the British did. Ukraine is not south Vietnam, and in that case they are all Vietnamese today anyway just the political system died. The Allies never claimed that West Germany was now part of France. Yet Russia claims Crimea is now a part of Russia (and I believe has done the same for several other regions since the invasion). So yes the country of Ukraine is very much under existential threat. Russia has made it very clear they want to remove Ukraine as a country. The territories acquired by Poland after World War II are known there as the Recovered Territories.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_GermanyInteresting. Should Poland give this land back to Germany?
Better yet: Every country should give their land back to the Roman Empire.
It's getting harder and harder to follow your train of thought Zeo. Must be a side effect of Russia losing and therefore turning up the propaganda volume I guess
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how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say?
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On September 15 2023 21:00 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 20:23 sertas wrote:
zeo you want ukraine to just surrender to russia and let them annex all of ukraine right?
It really sounds like you think ukraine shouldn't fight for their country but I just want to be sure that's what you want, because it's very interesting and insane if that's what you think. Ukrainians are not fighting for the country they are fighting for their regime - that is the main difference. At no point ever was Ukraine at risk of not existing, the only people under existential threat are their political elite and they are putting warm bodies between them and their fall from positions where they can steal the peoples money. Political systems built around hate a racial purity always end up like this. Its incredibly naive propaganda to say Ukraine as a state was somehow under threat of not existing after 26.02. but anything, even the most off the wall stupidity can be pushed because there is no space for rational thinking anymore. Germany and Italy as states or as nations didnt stop existing after WW2, their political system did. France didnt stop existing after Napoleon. Ireland didnt stop existing though we all know what the British did. Ukraine is not south Vietnam, and in that case they are all Vietnamese today anyway just the political system died.
Get some meds bro, what you are trying to say does not match reality
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On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say?
You must know that in zeos world, everything is going absurdly horrible for Ukraine, and they basically just barely hold on by sending in the Volkssturm, sacrificing millions of barely trained men and all of the western equipment while Russia completely dominates.
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Zeo is, in proud Serbian tradition, staunchly pro-genocide - as long as it's his side doing the killing. Coincidentally he also dislikes NATO, probably for the same reason.
Every post of his exists in a parallel universe and contributes absolutely nothing to this thread. Their only goal is to derail it; to muddy the water and, in true Russian fashion, try to make objective reality hard to find by flooding the space with misinformation and utter nonsense.
I honestly cannot fathom why we, as a community, still accept and tolerate a fascist shill like him in our midst. Not every piece of opinion deserves a stage. It flies in the face of Team Liquid's stance for tolerance and fairness.
If you want to have a space for mutual respect, tolerance and peace, it's okay to give the boot to nazis and fascists. They cannot exist and should not exist in the same space.
His open gloating about Ukrainian losses, thinly veiled as "concern", and his relentless cheerleeding for Russian aggression is absolutely vile. And I think this community is worse for accomodating that.
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Applying zeo's reasoning consistently would lead to the conclusion that the US should rule the whole planet. They do, after all, have the most powerful military in the world. That would justify a war of total conquest, and if other countries send their soldiers to prevent that, they're responsible for many deaths and needless suffering.
But we all know zeo would never agree to that reasoning. And he'll tell you it has nothing to do with a double standard or anything.
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United States44449 Posts
On September 15 2023 21:44 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 21:18 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 21:05 Gorsameth wrote:On September 15 2023 21:00 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 20:23 sertas wrote:
zeo you want ukraine to just surrender to russia and let them annex all of ukraine right?
It really sounds like you think ukraine shouldn't fight for their country but I just want to be sure that's what you want, because it's very interesting and insane if that's what you think. Ukrainians are not fighting for the country they are fighting for their regime that is the main difference. At no point ever was Ukraine at risk of not existing, the only people under existential threat are their political elite and they are putting warm bodies between them and their fall from positions where they can steal the peoples money. Political systems built around hate a racial purity always end up like this. Its incredibly naive propaganda to say Ukraine as a state was somehow under threat of not existing after 26.02. but anything, even the most off the wall stupidity can be pushed because there is no space for rational thinking anymore. Germany and Italy as states or as nations didnt stop existing after WW2, their political system did. France didnt stop existing after Napoleon. Ireland didnt stop existing though we all know what the British did. Ukraine is not south Vietnam, and in that case they are all Vietnamese today anyway just the political system died. The Allies never claimed that West Germany was now part of France. Yet Russia claims Crimea is now a part of Russia (and I believe has done the same for several other regions since the invasion). So yes the country of Ukraine is very much under existential threat. Russia has made it very clear they want to remove Ukraine as a country. The territories acquired by Poland after World War II are known there as the Recovered Territories.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_GermanyInteresting. Should Poland give this land back to Germany? Better yet: Every country should give their land back to the Roman Empire. It's getting harder and harder to follow your train of thought Zeo. Must be a side effect of Russia losing and therefore turning up the propaganda volume I guess
A challenger 2 drove over an anti tank mine rendering Russia the victor in the conflict.
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On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say?
This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case.
Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not.
Edit: Take Kwark for instance. Six months of talk about why the offencive hadnt started yet then 100 days now of cope why it hasnt achieved anything. I said 90 days ago in the thread that the offencive failed, low and behold 90 days later nothing, its still going nowhere fast. Basically almost a year of mental gymnastics with nothing to show for it. What happens to a person then? Reevaluate your position based on facts or fall back to logical fallicies?
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On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not.
I'm all for peace. The biggest peace would be had if all Russian troops lay down their weapons immediately and completely withdraw from the warzone within the next few days.
You certainly agree?
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On September 15 2023 22:54 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not. I'm all for peace. The biggest peace would be had if all Russian troops lay down their weapons immediately and completely withdraw from the warzone within the next few days. You certainly agree?
Everyone laying down their arms would be the biggest peace of course. Things arent so simple though, all this cannot go on forever in any case, though the more fanatical the propaganda gets the harder it is. Even Japan capitulated in the end.
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On September 15 2023 23:06 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 22:54 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not. I'm all for peace. The biggest peace would be had if all Russian troops lay down their weapons immediately and completely withdraw from the warzone within the next few days. You certainly agree? Everyone laying down their arms would be the biggest peace of course. Things arent so simple though, all this cannot go on forever in any case, though the more fanatical the propaganda gets the harder it is. Even Japan capitulated in the end.
Japan "capitulated" after every single city was raised to the ground and their military was defunct. They objectively had literally nothing left to fight with or for. They were completely done for.
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United States44449 Posts
On September 15 2023 23:16 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 23:06 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 22:54 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not. I'm all for peace. The biggest peace would be had if all Russian troops lay down their weapons immediately and completely withdraw from the warzone within the next few days. You certainly agree? Everyone laying down their arms would be the biggest peace of course. Things arent so simple though, all this cannot go on forever in any case, though the more fanatical the propaganda gets the harder it is. Even Japan capitulated in the end. Japan "capitulated" after every single city was raised to the ground and their military was defunct. They objectively had literally nothing left to fight with or for. They were completely done for.
But how many challenger 2s did Japan lose? If anything the Ukrainian position is objectively worse. That’s why they keep taking ground. It’s a desperate attempt to cover up their defeat.
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On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not. Edit: Take Kwark for instance. Six months of talk about why the offencive hadnt started yet then 100 days now of cope why it hasnt achieved anything. I said 90 days ago in the thread that the offencive failed, low and behold 90 days later nothing, its still going nowhere fast. Basically almost a year of mental gymnastics with nothing to show for it. What happens to a person then? Reevaluate your position based on facts or fall back to logical fallicies?
It's not even true, ukraine has more ifv, more tanks, more artillery pieces, more drones, more success in hitting crimea, since the war started. and f16 on the horizon , they are also firing more missiles and artillery and europe and us is increasing production rate five fold to increase ukrainian fire rate even more next year.
Ukraine has never been stronger then it is currently and that's why russia is struggling to take any ground from ukraine despite their attempts, 1 year ago russia could take any city they focused on but now they're unable to
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On September 15 2023 23:06 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 22:54 Magic Powers wrote:On September 15 2023 22:49 zeo wrote:On September 15 2023 21:45 sertas wrote:
how can we talk about a failure that doesn't exist? It's a war and ukraine is not strong enough yet to steamroll russia in open land war, it will take time to build up ukraine to that point and until then it will be a slow grind but progress is still being made, russia also tried to take some villages but have repeatedly failed in almost all their offensives since bakmut, what more is there to say? This was the build up, they wont be able to build up an army like this again, not after Bahmut and then this. The donations are smaller and smaller these days or its countries just filling out what they already promised. Ive already said before that this conflict will be decided by the US elections comming up and everything points to that being the case. Peace will break out whether certain people in this thread want it to or not. I'm all for peace. The biggest peace would be had if all Russian troops lay down their weapons immediately and completely withdraw from the warzone within the next few days. You certainly agree? Everyone laying down their arms would be the biggest peace of course. Things arent so simple though, all this cannot go on forever in any case, though the more fanatical the propaganda gets the harder it is. Even Japan capitulated in the end.
How about Russia just going home? That would end the war, and no one loses anything. Wouldn't that be the ideal solution? Next to the solution where Russia just fucking stayed home and didn't invade other countries?
I agree on the fanatical propaganda and capitulation thing, though. Russia should really consider this going forward.
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Note how Zeo says "everyone lay down their arms" is response to the notion that "Russia could just leave and there would be peace".
Because everyone laying down their arms means Russia get to keep all the territory they have occupied.
The only step that is required for peace is for Russia to go home.
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Don't you all get it? It's now Ukraine invading Russian land and therefor this is actually a Ukranian invasion paid for by Western governments. Furthermore, what Ukranians don't seem to understand is that they're actually Russian and have been brainwashed into becoming an entire seperate culture. In part paid for by Western evils. The West just wants to eradicate everything Russia by pretending to want gas from them and them sharing infrastructures to come to a mutually benefiting situation. It was all espionage in the end! The explosions prove it!!
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United States44449 Posts
A few weeks ago Russia responded to the slide of the ruble by simply paying people to keep rubles. The exchange rate went back down from 103 to 90. It’s now back to 97 and continuing to fall and so they’ve announced that they’re going to pay people even more to hold the ruble. The problem being that the currency they’re paying people in is also the ruble, devaluing the ruble further.
13% interest rates now and the slide continues. If people don’t have confidence in the money there’s only so long you can keep that going by paying them in more of the same money. And if rates get much higher then we’ll start seeing the impacts of inflation in moving consumer goods prices, demand surge as people seek to convert money to assets, empty shelves, and so forth. All while wages fail to keep up.
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There was a video published by the German Bundeswehr, which answers some subconsciously asked questions.
(Subtitle automatic - language). It`s nothing new, but it has some unvarnished details.
www.youtube.com
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EPT
