EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 577
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Yurie
12088 Posts
Russia keeps throwing rockets in, hitting a few decent targets but mostly killing civilians. Perhaps 1 important target hit. Ukraine gets one or more naval combatants via drones and a bit more aviation kills. High chance they damage the Kerch bridge a few more times. With F16 air gets contested and we see less of Russian helicopters at the front. Incremental territory gains by Ukraine due to artillery superiority. This will slowly increase over time and has a decent possibility to cause a breakthrough, though perhaps in a 2 year period instead. Basically predicting Russia losing ground over the next year but the war is unlikely to end in that period. The only way it ends is if Russia decides they have had enough or the current Russian leadership gets replaced by other internal factions. There is a small outside chance of a coup inside Ukraine after successful missile strikes takes out the top leadership. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8257 Posts
On September 08 2023 03:57 Ardias wrote: assume you never went on Ukrainian Telegram/Facebook/thematical forums or Russian Telegram/Vkontakte/thematical forums. There is plenty of this stuff from both sides. It's so funny how the default is always whataboutism This thread is not Russian or Ukrainian telegram where anything goes. It amazes me how this needs to be said Next time I break the law in the US, I'm just going to go with "But crime is fine in Somalia!" | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On September 09 2023 13:40 Excludos wrote: It's so funny how the default is always whataboutism This thread is not Russian or Ukrainian telegram where anything goes. It amazes me how this needs to be said Next time I break the law in the US, I'm just going to go with "But crime is fine in Somalia!" It had nothing to do with whataboutism. It's just, judging by your initial response, such kind of posts are unfamiliar to you, and I'm merely pointed out, that this is pretty much a regular behaviour around Internet. That doesn't mean I'm supporting it. The main reason I'm posting here is because the discussions here are at least somewhat civil. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On September 09 2023 13:40 Excludos wrote: It's so funny how the default is always whataboutism This thread is not Russian or Ukrainian telegram where anything goes. It amazes me how this needs to be said Next time I break the law in the US, I'm just going to go with "But crime is fine in Somalia!" I mean, there's literally dozens of posts with videos / photos of dead and dying Russians in this thread, but I guess because TL has agreed that Russkies are subhuman orcs it's okay to posts those, or something? | ||
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0x64
Finland4615 Posts
On September 09 2023 17:14 Salazarz wrote: I mean, there's literally dozens of posts with videos / photos of dead and dying Russians in this thread, but I guess because TL has agreed that Russkies are subhuman orcs it's okay to posts those, or something? Nope that's not it. Ardias does not need your help and has already posted a very good defense that makes sense. I have not seen a photo/video of dead soldiers in this thread. You claim there are dozens to make some point that are biased toward the country being under attack and we indeed are, because the vast majority of the world is and no one would ever wish their country to be invaded, and for that reason we tend to be empathic. Being empathic does not mean we wish to see dead soldiers. Being stupid on purpose or by accident is risky business on TL. We hang out here because we find a spark of intelligence that is running low on internet, we tolerate all opinions but we also recognize instantly the wider flavor of bullshit. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 09 2023 17:14 Salazarz wrote: I mean, there's literally dozens of posts with videos / photos of dead and dying Russians in this thread, but I guess because TL has agreed that Russkies are subhuman orcs it's okay to posts those, or something? That wasn't Excludos' point and you should know that. He said that someone attempted to turn this thread into a gore dumpster. That has nothing to do with "either side". Any images of dead soldiers in this thread, be they Russian or Ukrainian, have always been censored, at least as far as I can remember. Also, no one around here has ever gotten away with outright celebrating the death of Russian soldiers. If you've been around in this thread for some time, you'd know that many people here do not tolerate that, nor the dehumanization of Russian soldiers or Russian people generally. It's part of my personal policy that such behavior will not be tolerated in this thread, otherwise I will leave. So Ardias' comment was indeed whataboutism. Excludos didn't make an argument about which side is the right side in the conflict, but about what kind of content is acceptable in this thread. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On September 09 2023 17:14 Salazarz wrote: I mean, there's literally dozens of posts with videos / photos of dead and dying Russians in this thread, but I guess because TL has agreed that Russkies are subhuman orcs it's okay to posts those, or something? If it is literally dozens you should have no problem of finding and reporting them. Mods will take care of it if they violate forum guidelines. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On September 09 2023 17:53 Magic Powers wrote: That wasn't Excludos' point and you should know that. He said that someone attempted to turn this thread into a gore dumpster. That has nothing to do with "either side". Any images of dead soldiers in this thread, be they Russian or Ukrainian, have always been censored, at least as far as I can remember. Also, no one around here has ever gotten away with outright celebrating the death of Russian soldiers. If you've been around in this thread for some time, you'd know that many people here do not tolerate that, nor the dehumanization of Russian soldiers or Russian people generally. It's part of my personal policy that such behavior will not be tolerated in this thread, otherwise I will leave. So Ardias' comment was indeed whataboutism. Excludos didn't make an argument about which side is the right side in the conflict, but about what kind of content is acceptable in this thread. His first comment on the matter was simply a clear surprise and disgust, he just didn't specify what actually was in deleted comment until the second comment, which I've replied to, though it would be more clear If I quoted first (or both) comments. Also I've been thinking about some of JimmiC questions, a I think I will probably write few posts about average Russian life around here, what is available and what isn't. Will be putting it under spoiler not to derail the thread too much, but it would probably help some people here to better understand, how do we live, do sanctions affect us, and wether we are suffering here from economic hardships or not. Hope mods will be okay with that. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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pmp10
3396 Posts
Seems BRICS countries wouldn't condemn or even single-out Russia, the most that west could get was a call not to make territorial changes. After the Saudi peace talks it seemed that the west was getting somewhere with the global south. Looks like it didn't get very far. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6274 Posts
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KwarK
United States43989 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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pmp10
3396 Posts
On September 10 2023 03:52 RvB wrote: Not sure what more you expect. Russia and China are in the G20 and they'd never support a statement condemning Russia. For the other countries outside the west and Europe the war in Ukraine is not really that important. Global south is very important if there is to be any political isolation of Russia. In the very least they could have done like last year - "most G20 members condemn...". Interestingly India was among the states that watered-down the war statement, so it's not just Russia friendly states that have resisted. | ||
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Yurie
12088 Posts
On September 10 2023 16:40 pmp10 wrote: Global south is very important if there is to be any political isolation of Russia. In the very least they could have done like last year - "most G20 members condemn...". Interestingly India was among the states that watered-down the war statement, so it's not just Russia friendly states that have resisted. India is a Russia friendly state. Or at least one making a lot of money of the war and bought military equipment from them before it. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22372 Posts
Like China they don't so much support Russia, they just enjoy reaping the profits from Russia having no one else to turn to. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6274 Posts
On September 10 2023 16:40 pmp10 wrote: Global south is very important if there is to be any political isolation of Russia. In the very least they could have done like last year - "most G20 members condemn...". Interestingly India was among the states that watered-down the war statement, so it's not just Russia friendly states that have resisted. India and Russia have very close ties historically and India still relies on Russia for a majority of their weapons. Many countries in what you call the global south have important ties to Russia and China and attempt to protect those ties by balancing between the West, China, and Russia. You are also misreading the article. They are not watering down a statement because the expectation was that there would be no statement at all. They attempted to formulate a statement that is accaptable to all participants and succeeded. The West and Russia/China both had to make concessions to make it happen. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
If a breakthrough occurs (or several), with some luck it could be nearly unstoppable since the initiative would then be entirely on Ukraine's side and Russian defenses would be busy plugging holes with no chance of encirclement of the advancing Ukrainian troops. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17743 Posts
On September 11 2023 20:21 Magic Powers wrote: I read an interesting analysis yesterday on the situation with the mine fields. Apparently so many mines have been laid in so many places that Russian troops - and not only Ukrainian ones - have a hard time conducting offensives, too. Russian war policy is now mostly one of static defense, not active and dynamic. This would imply that Ukrainian troops can direct more resources towards the ongoing counter-offensive because the momentum is much more on their side. If a breakthrough occurs (or several), with some luck it could be nearly unstoppable since the initiative would then be entirely on Ukraine's side and Russian defenses would be busy plugging holes with no chance of encirclement of the advancing Ukrainian troops. From the recent reports Ukrainians have made some pretty good progress in the Zaporizhia region. They're using combined arms tactics with tanks supported by infantry (and drones) to clear one fortified position after another, advancing in several directions at the same time which makes it harder for Russians to concentrate their resources on just one point of the front. I wonder how much progress they can make before the winter. If they managed to somehow cut the Russian-occupied territory in half that would be a pretty big blow and would make Russian's life much harder. | ||
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