EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 482
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 25 2023 23:17 [Phantom] wrote: There is one thing that is clear. We’re being lied to. We don’t know what actually happened. As much as we’d want it to be true, they are not stupid. If this situation doesn’t make sense, and the deal doesn’t make sense, it’s because we’re missing a lot of information. They wouldn’t have made a deal so fast if it didn’t make sense for both parties. Just keep that in mind. Agreed, prigozhin must have some kind of assurance against putin, or he's reallyyy stupid | ||
KwarK
United States42753 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6286 Posts
On June 25 2023 20:02 Magic Powers wrote: May I ask for you to single out just one lie that stuck out to you? Just one shouldn't be too much to ask. Yeah, sure why not. I've gone through from page 464 and picked out some of the more fake-fake news. Some of these are malicious lies that were never true, some speculation at the time that turned out to not be true. I have no problem with someone reading or seeing something somewhere, coming to their own conclusion and posting their thoughts here. Even if they turn out to be wrong its still someones personal opinion and not just parroting bullet-points. So throughout the thread a lot of supposedly's and probably's that turned out not to be true but hey, its an online discussion. So, here is a few of them I picked out from the last day as I read along and my short thoughts after: - Russian Ruble crashed! - It didn't crash - Russian national guard joins Wagner - They didn't join Wagner - 'I hope NATO has emergency planning for seizing Russian nuclear sites if the country actually collapses.' - not really fake news, its an opinion. just thought it was funny and worth mentioning - 'What we are witnessing live is a final collapse of the last empire in Europe (USSR), the only question how bloody/chaotic and long it might be.' - an example of a hot take - 'Prigozhin spent 2 months stockpiling ammunition for the civil war - Gulagu. net The newspaper claims that he lied about the shelling famine and was preparing for a coup d'état all this time.' - Gulagu is a Russian anti-government human rights organization and website funded by 'democracy spreading entities'. This news turned out to be untrue in a surprise to no one. - 'BBC News Russian sources are now saying that Wagner fighters have taken control of all military facilities in the city of Voronezh' - What military facilities? Never heard anything about this and I read through all of the doomers - 'Apparently the Chechens are now attacking Rostov on don' - lol - 'This is apparently a week old, but just announced today: “[Ukrainian] assault units near Krasnohorivka captured several positions that had been held since 2014. This is already the so-called 'DNR' territory, right next to Donetsk." - They entered into a grey zone not controled by anyone and pulled back out again. - An exchange between Kwark and Zaros about the UAF 'not fully leaving Bahmut', incredible this is still being pushed in June, 'Ukraine is now retaking the city.' - the alleged retaking of the city has now gone on longer than Wagners assult btw 'The Collective Security Treaty Organization, CSTO, refuses to support Putin. According to Kazakh channels, Putin called the CSTO members - President Lukashenko of Belarus and President Tokayev of Kazakhstan'. - According to Kazakh channels you say? Lukashenko refuses to support Putin you say? Supposedly Iran too you say? 'The BBC Russia has reported evacuations of public buildings across Moscow as the Wagner rebels advance'. - Never happened, only source on the internet of this happening is BBC Russia 'And Wagner opened by looting the largest military stockpile in Rostov.' - not true 'Lukashenko flew/escaped to Turkey, Putin to St Petersburg' - A complete lie and it was debunked later that a dupe was used on flight radar. Something like 30min later everyone announced the party was over Eh, was't sure how to format this post and not make it take up half the page. Hope its readable | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 25 2023 23:37 KwarK wrote: People are a lot stupider than anyone imagined. For example Trump is being prosecuted for trying to impress Kid Rock with secret plans to invade Iran. Nobody would believe reality if you tried to make it into a tv series. Betting on your enemies stupidity is a sure way to lose though | ||
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Excludos
Norway8084 Posts
Anton Herashchenko is an "official advisor and a former deputy minister at the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs". A lot of this is clearly bs, or at the very least extremely exaggerated. As with all things, there's likely grains of truth, but drawn out to illogical conclusions. For instance, it's incredibly unlikely combat pilots were allowed to just "quit" in protest, in the middle of a war. "A vertical of power has collapse"? Putin is absolutely going to be looked at unfavourably after this, but whether the power collapses or not remains to be seen. It certainly hasn't happened yet. The Russian army has ceased to exist as a united structure? That is incredibly unlikely. The coup/almost civil war happened between the Russian army and Wagner, not as a result of an internal struggle within the Russian army. There is no reason for the Russian army structure to collapse because of this. Etc. etc. If you read this with no scepticism, you'd be easily end up believing that the war is already practically over, and that Ukraine is just going to choo choo through the Russian defences now. Which would leave you severely disappointed in a month or two, when the war is still going strong. It's important to see and understand these distinctions when you come across them. Filtering real and fake news is difficult (Zeo can certainly attest to that, with his filter being "Russia news true, everything else fake"), but trying to stick with provable facts will get you a long way | ||
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a_ch
Russian Federation240 Posts
He really cannot see himself deflecting here rather than acknowledging his own prior deflections (c) User was warned for this post | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13955 Posts
'Ukraine is now retaking the city.' - the alleged retaking of the city has now gone on longer than Wagners assult btw Wagners assult took as long as the longest modern battles of history. the retaking of the city hasn't started from before it was taken. theres no way to justify this lie its just weridly dumb logic. You can't bash other propaganda you don't read based on the propaganda you do read. On June 26 2023 00:23 a_ch wrote: He really cannot see himself deflecting here rather than acknowledging his own prior deflections (c) Its like this waste of a post. You literally just deflected away from answering a simple question in any way. but you think you can score points by acuseing someone else of doing the thing you are literaly just doing. asking someone to clarify what they're saying is the most basic of requests but some people find it really hard aparently. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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pmp10
3325 Posts
On June 25 2023 23:36 Erasme wrote: Agreed, prigozhin must have some kind of assurance against putin, or he's reallyyy stupid He miscalculated, doesn't mean he had better options. Had Ukrainian offensive been successful then the Crimean corridor would have been cut-off by now and Russian people far more receptive of 'conqueror of Bakhmut' arriving in Moscow to set matters straight. As things stood, he was about to lose control of Wagner anyway. The deal is his best bet to save his neck and some of his fortune, even if it is a long shot. | ||
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Slydie
1921 Posts
On June 26 2023 02:40 pmp10 wrote: He miscalculated, doesn't mean he had better options. Had Ukrainian offensive been successful then the Crimean corridor would have been cut-off by now and Russian people far more receptive of 'conqueror of Bakhmut' arriving in Moscow to set matters straight. As things stood, he was about to lose control of Wagner anyway. The deal is his best bet to save his neck and some of his fortune, even if it is a long shot. I don't know how anyone would think the Ukrainians could cut off Crimea in a few days. The Russians have had a long time to prepare. The best bet to win is not to run head first with a massive army into entrenched positions, artillery fire and minefields, hoping for some miracle. | ||
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KwarK
United States42753 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
It's going to take a while to get all of the facts from what happened verified by credible sources. You can't trust anything that either Putin or Pirghozhin say about what actually happened on the ground. https://news.yahoo.com/russian-agents-threat-family-made-204246993.html | ||
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pmp10
3325 Posts
On June 26 2023 05:30 Slydie wrote: I don't know how anyone would think the Ukrainians could cut off Crimea in a few days. The Russians have had a long time to prepare. The best bet to win is not to run head first with a massive army into entrenched positions, artillery fire and minefields, hoping for some miracle. We need to be realistic about it, it's been almost 3 weeks with 1st lines of defense still holding and Russian reserves not yet committed. Chances for this offensive producing a strategic difference are now very slim. I bet the politicians are already wondering on what comes next. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On June 26 2023 15:16 pmp10 wrote: We need to be realistic about it, it's been almost 3 weeks with 1st lines of defense still holding and Russian reserves not yet committed. Chances for this offensive producing a strategic difference are now very slim. I bet the politicians are already wondering on what comes next. Ukrainian reserves haven't been committed either. There's still speculation of if the counteroffensive has actually started or if we're still just seeing probing missions on the Ukrainian side. | ||
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
Normandy took about 2.5 months before you saw any major breakthrough, offensives like this take time to pay off unless you do the incredibly risky route of trying to blitz. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2620 Posts
On June 26 2023 08:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Meanwhile back on the left bank of the Dnipro river.... https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1673072292929187840 https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1673111684490076160 This is like that butterfly meme. "Is this significant?" If you are a poorly trained mobik being harassed by Ukrainian special forces untill they send qualified reinforcements then yes. If that is not you then no. Wake me up when they take Oleshky, and even then they have to push 30km on foot to establish a bridgehead. It's like Bakmuth. When (if) they take Krasna Hora (and probably Soledar) to protect the flanks the significant things can potentially happen. But regardless. If the offensive is eventually both succesfull and efficent Ukraine has probably won. If it's either succesfull or efficent the war probably continues (with an edge for Ukraine). If it's neither succesfull or efficent we might see negotiatons with Russia. So we just have to wait and see. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
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