EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 382
| Forum Index > General Forum |
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
|
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28796 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18288 Posts
On February 16 2023 23:04 Liquid`Drone wrote: Wonder how conscious they are about that name - Gardariket is the old norse/viking name for the region that today encompasses Ukraine, Belarus and parts of western Russia. Interesting. My first thought was that it's derived from гардероб (garderob), Russian for wardrobe. | ||
|
0x64
Finland4615 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2781 Posts
On February 17 2023 00:52 Acrofales wrote: Interesting. My first thought was that it's derived from гардероб (garderob), Russian for wardrobe. Also Swedish for wardrobe. | ||
|
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
edit: Estimate on Tank losses. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway8255 Posts
On February 16 2023 23:04 Liquid`Drone wrote: Wonder how conscious they are about that name - Gardariket is the old norse/viking name for the region that today encompasses Ukraine, Belarus and parts of western Russia. Authoritarian leaders LOVE (ab)using norse/viking names. The Norwegian military itself is having trouble using norse mythology names for their operations, despite being one of three countries where it's actually apt, because so much of it relates back to Nazi Germany | ||
|
Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64571526 | ||
|
Harris1st
Germany7195 Posts
On February 17 2023 20:53 Magic Powers wrote: Sunak is now clearly signalling moves towards training for and delivery of modern fighter jets. Nothing off the table. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64571526 Dunno. I don't see this happening. Just too much AA on both sides plus extensive training plus one jet (Eurofighter Typhoon ~ 130 mio) is worth more than 20 Leos (~ 6,5 mio) . Next step should be long(er) range artillery IMO | ||
|
Sent.
Poland9297 Posts
too much AA I think it's unlikely but it might be reasonable to deliver Western jets for purely defensive purposes like intercepting Russian aviation. I wouldn't expect Ukrainians to attempt contesting air superiority over Donetsk with a handful of eurofighters. | ||
|
Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
"Too much" doesn't exist. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Harris1st
Germany7195 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Artesimo
Germany572 Posts
On February 17 2023 21:55 Sent. wrote: I think it's unlikely but it might be reasonable to deliver Western jets for purely defensive purposes like intercepting Russian aviation. I wouldn't expect Ukrainians to attempt contesting air superiority over Donetsk with a handful of eurofighters. When it comes to AA, its not just dangerous for ukrainian aircraft to do offensive operation. Russia is shooting down ukrainian airplanes from within their borders, using standoff ammunition and their aircraft's superior range of targeting. No idea how realistically airplanes could change this, but atm, using planes to combat missiles and especially drones is a dangerous and very costly way of AA for ukraine. So far most most military people I have heard rate western aircraft very low on the priority list for ukraine though. | ||
|
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Guessing this is a forward trench. NSFW. + Show Spoiler + | ||
|
Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On February 17 2023 23:30 Harris1st wrote: I mean what can you realistically accomplish with 30-40 jets? Defense vs Russian jets/ drones? Attack priority targets? Isn't it better / safer to do the first with Gepards and the second with Artillery? Honest question Recon would be among the priorities, but also cleaning up airspace in key areas to overcome otherwise difficult obstacles like hills and such for ground forces. It would force Russia to cover zones they currently control with even more of their own airforce, drawing attention away from other areas. This reduces Russia's offensive options, relieves Ukrainian outposts and makes Ukrainian breakthroughs more likely. | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2781 Posts
On February 18 2023 00:59 Artesimo wrote: When it comes to AA, its not just dangerous for ukrainian aircraft to do offensive operation. Russia is shooting down ukrainian airplanes from within their borders, using standoff ammunition and their aircraft's superior range of targeting. No idea how realistically airplanes could change this, but atm, using planes to combat missiles and especially drones is a dangerous and very costly way of AA for ukraine. So far most most military people I have heard rate western aircraft very low on the priority list for ukraine though. I imagine one reason for getting western aircraft would be doing exactly this. With AWACS integration it should be just as effective. Other uses would be - air to ground standoff weapons. - baiting AA with drones and destroying them with HARM. - air to ship missiles. The big thing is that NATO weapons are air focused so getting launch capability opens up a lot of new options. And while you can't expect Ukraine to use NATO tactics there are a lot of weapons that can be fired from a safe distance. | ||
|
Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 18 2023 01:24 Magic Powers wrote: Recon would be among the priorities, but also cleaning up airspace in key areas to overcome otherwise difficult obstacles like hills and such for ground forces. It would force Russia to cover zones they currently control with even more of their own airforce, drawing attention away from other areas. This reduces Russia's offensive options, relieves Ukrainian outposts and makes Ukrainian breakthroughs more likely. They have satellites and drones for recon, and it's extremely difficult to spot things on the ground flying 500kph 250ft off the ground. Until they can fly higher and slower with impunity, they won't be doing recon, especially since the F-16 is a single seater. Neither side has the ability to clear airspace to fly in at the moment. The F-16 does have the ability to carry HARMs, decoys, and AMRAAMs though, which would eventually allow them to clear both the airspace and SAMs, but they would definitely lose pilots and airframes doing it, every one of which will hurt with only 30-40 planes. While I have no doubt USAF could clear and get the 20000+ft envelope open (out of MANPADS range) in a matter of days, Ukraine doesn't have a trillion+ dollar airforce to work with. F-16's do have the ability to carry AGM-65's and other air to ground goodies though, so if they can eventually get air control, CAS missions will definitely help a ton. | ||
| ||
