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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On September 27 2022 08:43 Ghanburighan wrote: [You have clearly failed at creating good faith discussion. Read some of the stuff directed at me and tell me whether you'd want to discuss anything on this platform. Ah yes, pot calling kettle. Good riddance to be honest, this thread will hopefully be less toxic to read. | ||
zatic
Zurich15359 Posts
So, please: Back on topic. Stop attacking each other. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1061 Posts
So far they excluded everything but sabotage. There is an awful lot of people having an interest in cancelling NS, so you could just speculate so far. www.spiegel.de | ||
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Artesimo
Germany567 Posts
On September 27 2022 16:41 r00ty wrote: There has been a pressure loss in the Nordstream pipelines since the early hours of monday. A leak was found. Pressure is at 7/105bar. Denmark diverted shipping around the Island of Bornholm. Points towards rather heavy damage. So far they excluded everything but sabotage. There is an awful lot of people having an interest in cancelling NS, so you could just speculate so far. www.spiegel.de To me it feels like the article is hinting at the fact that this might be another attempt at eroding will for sanctions: According to Nord Stream 2 AG, research into the causes is very difficult for political reasons: Sanctions are being imposed, there is hardly any staff left at the german offices and funds are frozen. In Lubmin, where the pipeline lands in Germany, there are no Nord Stream 2 AG personnel, said Lissek. "You can't place any orders either, because you can't pay for them, and you have to see where you can get information from."(took a bit more of a liberty with the quote. its not an actual quote in the article, but reads like a statement made by Lissek / Nord Stream 2 AG, so I think marking is at such is the most clear) Original: + Show Spoiler + Laut Nord Stream 2 AG gestalte sich die Ursachenforschung auch aus politischen Gründen sehr schwierig: Man stehe unter Sanktionen, verfüge kaum noch über Personal, und Gelder seien eingefroren. In Lubmin, wo die Pipeline in Deutschland anlandet, sei kein Personal der Nord Stream 2 AG, sagte Lissek. Man könne auch keine Aufträge erteilen, da man diese nicht bezahlen könne, und müsse schauen, woher man nun Informationen erhalte. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation617 Posts
Requests for more military aid from Ukraine, and admitting that Iranian drones, especially suicide ones, do pose a problem. Besides being more difficult to spot and fired at, than a cruise missile, one thing article doesn't mention is the fact that movement and deployment of all cruise/ballistic missile launchers, whether on land, sea and air, is being spotted by US recon (example of which I've posted previously). But suicide drones may be launched from simple large truck, so the launchers themselves are much harder to track down, and warning for the Ukrainian air defence comes much later. Hence the pleas for more short-range air defence systems and radars, along with other stuff. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15359 Posts
On September 27 2022 17:00 Artesimo wrote: To me it feels like the article is hinting at the fact that this might be another attempt at eroding will for sanctions: Original: This is an extremely strange episode. From what I am reading it does actually look like sabotage. Leaks in both NS1 and NS2, both in the same area. German officials have been quoted saying "there is no scenario where this isn't sabotage". Although a public statement hasn't been made yet. But: Who and why? NS2 was never operational, and NS1 has been shut down for weeks. What does this accomplish? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5742 Posts
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Artesimo
Germany567 Posts
On September 27 2022 17:32 zatic wrote: This is an extremely strange episode. From what I am reading it does actually look like sabotage. Leaks in both NS1 and NS2, both in the same area. German officials have been quoted saying "there is no scenario where this isn't sabotage". Although a public statement hasn't been made yet. But: Who and why? NS2 was never operational, and NS1 has been shut down for weeks. What does this accomplish? Its a really weird one. I am biased of course, but I can't really see a western ally sabotaging the pipeline because of mistrust in germany. We have better ways to sort these things out, and it does not strike me as the thing where a bunch of rogue activists could be responsible. So my best guess is that if its sabotage, it is an attempt by russia to either sow mistrust among the EU, or to try and erode sanctions. Like in the Nord Stream 2 AG statement, which blames sanctions for being unable to investigate effectively. It could also be an attempt at pressuring german politics, dangling the risk of the pipelines being dead for good over their head. I don't believe that europe won't directly buy any russian gas after this is over, but hopefully learn from it and diversify their supply. Because currently russian gas and oil still makes it into western markets, we just pay the premium of buying it from countries that russia sells it to. This makes sense while the war is going on, since it reduces russian revenue as they have to sell it cheaper to india/china, but its not something that makes sense in the long term. So using this to threaten the future of those pipelines might be an avenue of attack. Or I am critically misjudging what goes into sabotaging a pipeline deep under the sea, and it really is just some anti russian hardliners wanting to make sure russia can't graciously offer to turn nord stream 1/2 back on in the midst of winter. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation617 Posts
On September 27 2022 17:32 zatic wrote: This is an extremely strange episode. From what I am reading it does actually look like sabotage. Leaks in both NS1 and NS2, both in the same area. German officials have been quoted saying "there is no scenario where this isn't sabotage". Although a public statement hasn't been made yet. But: Who and why? NS2 was never operational, and NS1 has been shut down for weeks. What does this accomplish? Not sure if this connects somehow, but there was a small report from 22.09.2022 about FSB preventing a diversion on the gas pipeline leading to Turkish stream, blaming Ukraine for that of course. https://ria.ru/20220922/terakt-1818599896.html Wasn't a big news at that time (FSB always preventing/"preventing" something, hard to guess where they do work and where they make an appereance of doing so), but in the light of this current business with Nord Stream makes me wonder, if these two cases may be connected in some way. Also, if that was a sabotage (on NS I mean) what kind of equipment is needed for that? | ||
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0x64
Finland4601 Posts
On September 27 2022 06:29 maybenexttime wrote: Is my assessment unfair? That's the opinion of leading Russian sociologists. Most Russians are couch patriots and passively support the war (or at least did until the recent mobilization). The indifference to what Russia has been doing in Ukraine for the past seven months has been absolutely stunning. And don't tell me that they had no idea. People were somehow informed enough to flee/fear the mobilization. They know the story peddled by their TV is bullshit. Jones313 made a neat little list of what Russian troops have been up to throughout the war. Wishing them to die is hardly controversial. They made a conscious choice to invade a neighbouring country and kill innocent people. I was obviously agitated by the relentless Russian strikes on civilian targets and critical infrastructure when I wrote that. By "Fascist cunts" I meant people involved in the war/Russian government, not ordinary people. What's so egregious about what I said? Also, if Russia were a normal country, I'd be considered a Russophile, considering that I studied Russian for three semesters at the uni, listen to Russian music almost daily and read Russian literature. Unfortunately, it's hard not to hate Russia as a country. Don't sweat it, my wife is Russian and she agrees with you. It's easy to get heated when a nuclear plant was actively being shelled. The cost of not doing anything against your countries government is that you may get dehumanized. This thread has managed to get a good balance of not going total Russian trashing. We all understand it is not that easy to "be against the Russian government" but as they say, for Evil to triumph, it is enough that the good man does nothing. I have seen first hand what being against Putin can do, and how efficient the propaganda on TV has been, splitting families in two, between generations. Generally, the attitude is wait and see, but survive first. We will see when Russian Government will set the draft level where it start to pose a bigger risk not to fight it. As a French, I really wish no country to live through a civil war or a bloody revolution. Russia will repeat 1989, it will not be bloody but as long as corruption is not directly attacked, the cycle will repeat. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1061 Posts
I'm no expert in natural gas pipelines but i know a little bit about other vakuum sealed pipe systems for industrial gasses and those are kinda complicated (and expensive). It's not just a pipe. You gotta close the leak, most likely by exchanging a segment, get the water out and fill it anew, from the Russian side... It will be able to take the salt water, but not for a prolongued period of time. The baltic sea is not that deep (52m/150ft. on average), even less so around Bornholm, where the leak occured. It doesn't take state of the art military hardware, to damage that thing. So this also shows the vulnerability of being dependent on NS, AGAIN. Edit: I believe the company, that they can't act effectively because of sanctions and that they were absolutely gutted concerning staff and financing, but please mind, they and the people up there want that thing to go online as fast as possible, they also worked close with Russian companies for a lot of years. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation617 Posts
https://t.me/milinfolive/91056 | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On September 27 2022 22:03 Ardias wrote: Some footage from the location of the cracks in the pipeline https://t.me/milinfolive/91056 Yeah so either a Submarine hit it, a good guess what be that it wasn't a Western navy that hit it. Or just some divers. No idea the depth of said water. edit: And there it is: | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
https://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/regierung/eu-verspricht-werden-im-winter-nicht-frieren-muessen/530960215 | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9269 Posts
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Ardias
Russian Federation617 Posts
https://t.me/vatfor/8085?single "Paranoia is paranoia, but back on September 2, we noticed interesting maneuvers performed by an American helicopter with the callsign FFAB123. Back then we assumed that this aircraft was from the USS Kearsarge air wing, and today we looked at it in more detail. According to the site ads-b.nl, 6 aircraft used this call that day, of which we managed to establish the tail numbers of three. All of them are Sikorsky MH-60S. By superimposing the FFAB123 route on the scheme of yesterday's accident, we get a rather interesting result - the helicopter either flew along the Nord Stream-2 route, or even between the points at which the accident occurred. Meanwhile, on Twitter, there were screenshots of other American aircraft flights - the next screenshot was taken on September 13th. And finally, you need to pay attention to the June article (https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/) in Sea Power, where the Americans show off experiments in the field of underwater drones, which they set up at the BALTOPS 22 exercises - just in the area of Bornholm Island." | ||
KwarK
United States43483 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14076 Posts
On September 27 2022 23:53 plasmidghost wrote: Fucking hell. Things are getting even more terrifying here. I regret browsing too deep in Twitter because a bunch of people are blaming Biden for this and everything keeps destabilizing https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662 I mean blaming America for the world's problems is pretty normal. NS2 did get shut down when Russia invaded and NS1 was shut down before this recent act of sabotage. The only scenario that makes sense to me is if this was Russia. Creating something to divide the west at any cost. I'm sure navy seals could have done this but the only thing I think the US would gain is to shove Germany into sending tanks or allowing tanks to be sent, But the insane absolutely insane risk of ending NATO and the united states relationship with EU just boggles the mind if anyone seriously considering it. | ||
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pmh
1399 Posts
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