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On June 16 2025 01:57 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 01:15 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yes all Israel wants is for Arabs to have good schools and healthcare <3
What's that?
They might actually have an ulterior motive for wanting Iran to disarm? No way.
If I was Iran, and Israel wanted me to disarm, I might point out that I'm surrounded by US military bases, and that the US and Israel are already in the middle of one genocide, so I think I'll just keep my weapons, thanks. This will probably fall on deaf ears, but is there documented/leaked intent for a genocide or genocidal military orders as with China, Myanmar, Sudan or Bosnia? Most Iranians are ethnically Persians. Arabs are a total minority in Iran.
Sorry I already got disqualified by KwarK for making that mistake. Can't carry on talking about it.
I think he got an extra 50 points too.
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On June 16 2025 02:22 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:02 Jankisa wrote:
I like how the arguments here boil down to: "but Hamas is worse" and "but Iran wants the Jews dead".
All the things that happen in the meantime, the clearly fucked up "aid distribution" tactics Israel does, the attack on Iran just before the next round of nuclear negotiations don't matter.
Yeah, Hamas is a theocratic death cult with 0 redeeming qualities, Iran's government is also an insane theocracy, Israel on paper isn't, so why spend most of your time explaining away all of their shitty, aggressive, escalatory moves. They will not be reasoned with, and they will most certainly be bombed into submission, there is 0 historic precedence for that, so all you are doing by providing explanations how Israel has the right to do whatever they want is giving tacit approval.
I will never understand the heartlessness of these arguments, the absolute lack of giving a shit about the 99 % of the population that just wants to live their lives. I can't name a single user that hasn't addresses the plight of the Palestinian population or didn't call for the Israeli officials and soldiers who committed war crimes to be held responsible. Collective guild on the Gazans was heavily criticized. Still, the main reason that things aren't heating down for Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran is religious fundamentalism. Hadn't Hamas attacked with genocidal intent and execution on October 7th like its charter says and hadn't Iran enriched to 60% (being non complient with NPT safeguards for the first time in 20 years) - far from the 3,67% limit and closing in to 90% weapon grade, all of this escalation in the past 1,5 years would not have happened.
We all understand how this works you know, it's not rocket science. You just ignore everything that Israel is doing in a standard situation, with the, what, 200 Palestinians killed per year on average or something?, the occupation, the gradual taking of land, and then when there's any sort of response to these things, you go "Holy shit, out of nowhere we were attacked, we have to defend ourselves now, all the deaths are on you for having attacked us because of your religious fundamentalism".
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On June 16 2025 02:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 01:57 PremoBeats wrote:On June 16 2025 01:15 Jockmcplop wrote:
Yes all Israel wants is for Arabs to have good schools and healthcare <3
What's that?
They might actually have an ulterior motive for wanting Iran to disarm? No way.
If I was Iran, and Israel wanted me to disarm, I might point out that I'm surrounded by US military bases, and that the US and Israel are already in the middle of one genocide, so I think I'll just keep my weapons, thanks. This will probably fall on deaf ears, but is there documented/leaked intent for a genocide or genocidal military orders as with China, Myanmar, Sudan or Bosnia? Most Iranians are ethnically Persians. Arabs are a total minority in Iran. Sorry I already got disqualified by KwarK for making that mistake. Can't carry on talking about it. I think he got an extra 50 points too.
And the more interesting documented genocidal intent?
On June 16 2025 02:43 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:22 PremoBeats wrote:On June 16 2025 02:02 Jankisa wrote:
I like how the arguments here boil down to: "but Hamas is worse" and "but Iran wants the Jews dead".
All the things that happen in the meantime, the clearly fucked up "aid distribution" tactics Israel does, the attack on Iran just before the next round of nuclear negotiations don't matter.
Yeah, Hamas is a theocratic death cult with 0 redeeming qualities, Iran's government is also an insane theocracy, Israel on paper isn't, so why spend most of your time explaining away all of their shitty, aggressive, escalatory moves. They will not be reasoned with, and they will most certainly be bombed into submission, there is 0 historic precedence for that, so all you are doing by providing explanations how Israel has the right to do whatever they want is giving tacit approval.
I will never understand the heartlessness of these arguments, the absolute lack of giving a shit about the 99 % of the population that just wants to live their lives. I can't name a single user that hasn't addresses the plight of the Palestinian population or didn't call for the Israeli officials and soldiers who committed war crimes to be held responsible. Collective guild on the Gazans was heavily criticized. Still, the main reason that things aren't heating down for Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran is religious fundamentalism. Hadn't Hamas attacked with genocidal intent and execution on October 7th like its charter says and hadn't Iran enriched to 60% (being non complient with NPT safeguards for the first time in 20 years) - far from the 3,67% limit and closing in to 90% weapon grade, all of this escalation in the past 1,5 years would not have happened. We all understand how this works you know, it's not rocket science. You just ignore everything that Israel is doing in a standard situation, with the, what, 200 Palestinians killed per year on average or something?, the occupation, the gradual taking of land, and then when there's any sort of response to these things, you go "Holy shit, out of nowhere we were attacked, we have to defend ourselves now, all the deaths are on you for having attacked us because of your religious fundamentalism".
And didn't I call for cancellation of illegal settlements? For Israeli officials and soliders being brought to justice?
But what you are saying goes - again - beyond any reasonable argument in regards to fundamentalism. Even if there was a state to be born under Hamas that was not under Israeli control, the religious zealots would not stop. That is my entire point. I laid out multiple times how I would proceed from here on out. None of you seemed interested in discussing. Your black and white thinking pro one and against the other side prohibits any meaningful discussion.
Nothing of what you are saying is addressing the core root of fundamentalism. We can discuss in length the conditions of the past years or future plans, but if you are unwilling to talk about religion, there is no way forward for this region. Hamas did not attack Israel on behalf of the Gazan population... the warehouses, the tortures, the misuse of funds and aid, as well as the atrocities of that day should show you pretty clearly that such a stance is utterly ridiculous.
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On June 16 2025 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:26 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 00:11 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:04 Nebuchad wrote:On June 15 2025 23:45 Mohdoo wrote:
It’s very clear Israel and the west monitored the situation until it was far enough along or Iran to be widely condemned, providing the cover to strike like this. Public support for Israel in the West is at an all-time low before this, I think most likely the only thing that they were closely monitoring was my ballsack. I doubt the context in which Israel is buried at -50 net favourability in most of western Europe and around 50% in the US is the context in which they can attack another country, in a way that is so obviously not self-defense that even the liberal media is calling it an attack, and have their enemies widely condemned instead of them. Compare the stuff Macron is saying about Israel vs Iran to the stuff Macron says about Israel vs Gaza. It’s not critically important, but it does matter to some extent. Think about all the other folks Israel could have killed when they assassinated the Hamas leader in Tehran. Whatever their reason, they are showing us very clearly right now they were using a lot of restraint previously. Whatever their reason, it’s apparently totally gone now All of this is quite standard and doesn't support your initial claim that this was a closely monitored time to be doing this or that they had the right amount of cover. A much more likely outcome for doing this, in my opinion, is that even more people see Israel as very clearly causing issues in the Middle East and that support for it tanks even more. I guess it's hard for me to gauge how it's going to play in the US but the proportion of people in Europe who think this is a good thing is probably similar to the proportion of people who support Trump, absolutely negligible numbers. All that matters at the end of the day is the US. I was just using macron as an example of how in terms of global optics messaging BS, this timing appears to have been ideal. We already know Israel could have done this a long time ago. Or maybe it took them this long to get the IAEA to issue their statement for cover. No clue. All I’m saying is if they waited until now, I guess they did so for a reason. The most likely reason being, of course by a mile, that Netanyahu had some court date (or something? I didn't really look in details sorry) pending and now he can't go
It could totally be that too. Maybe he held off until now specifically to delay the eventual trial
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United States42778 Posts
On June 16 2025 02:43 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:22 PremoBeats wrote:On June 16 2025 02:02 Jankisa wrote:
I like how the arguments here boil down to: "but Hamas is worse" and "but Iran wants the Jews dead".
All the things that happen in the meantime, the clearly fucked up "aid distribution" tactics Israel does, the attack on Iran just before the next round of nuclear negotiations don't matter.
Yeah, Hamas is a theocratic death cult with 0 redeeming qualities, Iran's government is also an insane theocracy, Israel on paper isn't, so why spend most of your time explaining away all of their shitty, aggressive, escalatory moves. They will not be reasoned with, and they will most certainly be bombed into submission, there is 0 historic precedence for that, so all you are doing by providing explanations how Israel has the right to do whatever they want is giving tacit approval.
I will never understand the heartlessness of these arguments, the absolute lack of giving a shit about the 99 % of the population that just wants to live their lives. I can't name a single user that hasn't addresses the plight of the Palestinian population or didn't call for the Israeli officials and soldiers who committed war crimes to be held responsible. Collective guild on the Gazans was heavily criticized. Still, the main reason that things aren't heating down for Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran is religious fundamentalism. Hadn't Hamas attacked with genocidal intent and execution on October 7th like its charter says and hadn't Iran enriched to 60% (being non complient with NPT safeguards for the first time in 20 years) - far from the 3,67% limit and closing in to 90% weapon grade, all of this escalation in the past 1,5 years would not have happened. We all understand how this works you know, it's not rocket science. You just ignore everything that Israel is doing in a standard situation, with the, what, 200 Palestinians killed per year on average or something?, the occupation, the gradual taking of land, and then when there's any sort of response to these things, you go "Holy shit, out of nowhere we were attacked, we have to defend ourselves now, all the deaths are on you for having attacked us because of your religious fundamentalism".
I think the justifications for violence against Israel by Palestinians and Iran should be evaluated separately rather than as a group project.
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https://www.axios.com/2025/06/15/trump-israel-iran-assassination-khamenei
If Israel had a viable plan or opportunity to assassinate Khamenei, it would suggest extraordinary levels of operational reach and intelligence penetration.
Khamenei is likely the most heavily guarded person in Iran, protected by multiple overlapping layers (IRGC, internal intelligence, elite security). For Israel to even identify a time and place where he was vulnerable, they would need high-level human intelligence or close-proximity surveillance.
And to even think about killing a political head of state implies the risk of setting off extreme geopolitical consequences. Or was it just a flex to show what they are capable of without a true desire to take action?
Meanwhile Elon has turned on Starlink as Iran has shut down internet, although it is unclear how efficient this action is.
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On June 16 2025 05:47 PremoBeats wrote:https://www.axios.com/2025/06/15/trump-israel-iran-assassination-khameneiIf Israel had a viable plan or opportunity to assassinate Khamenei, it would suggest extraordinary levels of operational reach and intelligence penetration. Khamenei is likely the most heavily guarded person in Iran, protected by multiple overlapping layers (IRGC, internal intelligence, elite security). For Israel to even identify a time and place where he was vulnerable, they would need high-level human intelligence or close-proximity surveillance. And to even think about killing a political head of state implies the risk of setting off extreme geopolitical consequences. Or was it just a flex to show what they are capable of without a true desire to take action? Meanwhile Elon has turned on Starlink as Iran has shut down internet, although it is unclear how efficient this action is.
It sounds like Trump’s team basically can’t imagine the idea of Iran’s leadership genuinely valuing “death to Israel” above their country’s wellbeing.
Maybe Iran is assuming the inability to occupy the country discourages less extreme efforts. And maybe they think the war in Ukraine makes attacking oil fields off the table too, meaning they are mostly invincible? I’ve been really hoping Tehran losing control of their airspace would trigger some kind of concessions.
It’s not clear to me why the US is hesitating to bunker bust the mountain facility. If it prevents the world from knowing what Iran is doing, it would be a barrier to any trustworthy agreements. Who knows
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On June 16 2025 01:04 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 23:18 Billyboy wrote:@ Jankisa The major issue I have with the rhetoric of people in this thread is claiming people who have issues with Israel's conduct are broken brained when the same people leveling these kind of accusations are the ones that decided that what Hamas did on October 7th gives Israel free reign to do whatever kind of violence and escalations. I don't think anyone here holds this position. I think there are are people you can put in two camps though. One that thinks everything is Israel's fault. And others who put blame on both in varying degrees. There used to be a Israeli fella on this thread who could have given eloquent and informed info on the Israeli position and how different groups within Israel felt but he was chased away with hate. Anyone here mad at Iran for launching massive missile and drone volleys with no even attempt at hitting military targets? Not really my recollection. They got pretty standard pushback on their positions and decided not to engage subsequently, they weren’t ’chased away with hate’. Which is a shame nonetheless but let’s not frame it otherwise. I’d personally prefer Iran not to do such things. They’ve been attacked by a state, not paramilitaries however. They’ve also been attacked at a deliberate time of Israel’s choosing where they relaxed certain protocols based on the US negotiations. Iran’s overall stance is clearly reprehensible, but what nation on Earth wouldn’t respond? Either the US and Israel collaborated here, in which case why trust either? Or the US was in the dark which indicates Israel can do what it wants essentially and doesn’t think there’ll be US pushback. Neither scenario is going to be remotely palatable to Iran.
Ahh yes, I forgot that you are the completely unbiased arbitrator of behavior. I mistakenly thought he left because of the large number of people down his throat every post, ignorantly complaining that it was unfair he knew so much, attacking him personally and morally repeatedly. Good to know he just lost interest.
Anyone who cares can go read the quality posts he did and the "standard pushback on positions" and judge for themselves. I'd say that he's not here is a pretty good indicator of what he thought.
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On June 16 2025 05:47 PremoBeats wrote:https://www.axios.com/2025/06/15/trump-israel-iran-assassination-khameneiIf Israel had a viable plan or opportunity to assassinate Khamenei, it would suggest extraordinary levels of operational reach and intelligence penetration. Khamenei is likely the most heavily guarded person in Iran, protected by multiple overlapping layers (IRGC, internal intelligence, elite security). For Israel to even identify a time and place where he was vulnerable, they would need high-level human intelligence or close-proximity surveillance. And to even think about killing a political head of state implies the risk of setting off extreme geopolitical consequences. Or was it just a flex to show what they are capable of without a true desire to take action? Meanwhile Elon has turned on Starlink as Iran has shut down internet, although it is unclear how efficient this action is.
Mossad has shown they have free reign inside of Iran, you don't get that level without tons and tons of local support. Decades of awful repression of their own people is coming home to roost. Anyone not celebrating the deaths of Bagheri and Salami is either not paying attention or evil.
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On June 16 2025 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:26 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 00:11 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:04 Nebuchad wrote:On June 15 2025 23:45 Mohdoo wrote:
It’s very clear Israel and the west monitored the situation until it was far enough along or Iran to be widely condemned, providing the cover to strike like this. Public support for Israel in the West is at an all-time low before this, I think most likely the only thing that they were closely monitoring was my ballsack. I doubt the context in which Israel is buried at -50 net favourability in most of western Europe and around 50% in the US is the context in which they can attack another country, in a way that is so obviously not self-defense that even the liberal media is calling it an attack, and have their enemies widely condemned instead of them. Compare the stuff Macron is saying about Israel vs Iran to the stuff Macron says about Israel vs Gaza. It’s not critically important, but it does matter to some extent. Think about all the other folks Israel could have killed when they assassinated the Hamas leader in Tehran. Whatever their reason, they are showing us very clearly right now they were using a lot of restraint previously. Whatever their reason, it’s apparently totally gone now All of this is quite standard and doesn't support your initial claim that this was a closely monitored time to be doing this or that they had the right amount of cover. A much more likely outcome for doing this, in my opinion, is that even more people see Israel as very clearly causing issues in the Middle East and that support for it tanks even more. I guess it's hard for me to gauge how it's going to play in the US but the proportion of people in Europe who think this is a good thing is probably similar to the proportion of people who support Trump, absolutely negligible numbers. All that matters at the end of the day is the US. I was just using macron as an example of how in terms of global optics messaging BS, this timing appears to have been ideal. We already know Israel could have done this a long time ago. Or maybe it took them this long to get the IAEA to issue their statement for cover. No clue. All I’m saying is if they waited until now, I guess they did so for a reason. The most likely reason being, of course by a mile, that Netanyahu had some court date (or something? I didn't really look in details sorry) pending and now he can't go
The question is, does this explain just the timing of this particular attack, or the whole set of Israeli wars in their entirety?
I can absolutely see a world where this entire thread, all of the moralizing and accusing and arguing about who is the wrongest is rendered completely void by the fact that the only reason any of it is happening is to keep Netenyahu out of jail.
Obviously you can't read the minds of the Israeli fascists though.
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Early reports a shit ton of US tankers are on the way to Iran. It appears as though something massive just happened from Iran and US says it’s time
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On June 16 2025 10:59 Mohdoo wrote:
Early reports a shit ton of US tankers are on the way to Iran. It appears as though something massive just happened from Iran and US says it’s time
Do you have a source of some kind we can check out?
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On June 16 2025 10:47 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:26 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 00:11 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:04 Nebuchad wrote:On June 15 2025 23:45 Mohdoo wrote:
It’s very clear Israel and the west monitored the situation until it was far enough along or Iran to be widely condemned, providing the cover to strike like this. Public support for Israel in the West is at an all-time low before this, I think most likely the only thing that they were closely monitoring was my ballsack. I doubt the context in which Israel is buried at -50 net favourability in most of western Europe and around 50% in the US is the context in which they can attack another country, in a way that is so obviously not self-defense that even the liberal media is calling it an attack, and have their enemies widely condemned instead of them. Compare the stuff Macron is saying about Israel vs Iran to the stuff Macron says about Israel vs Gaza. It’s not critically important, but it does matter to some extent. Think about all the other folks Israel could have killed when they assassinated the Hamas leader in Tehran. Whatever their reason, they are showing us very clearly right now they were using a lot of restraint previously. Whatever their reason, it’s apparently totally gone now All of this is quite standard and doesn't support your initial claim that this was a closely monitored time to be doing this or that they had the right amount of cover. A much more likely outcome for doing this, in my opinion, is that even more people see Israel as very clearly causing issues in the Middle East and that support for it tanks even more. I guess it's hard for me to gauge how it's going to play in the US but the proportion of people in Europe who think this is a good thing is probably similar to the proportion of people who support Trump, absolutely negligible numbers. All that matters at the end of the day is the US. I was just using macron as an example of how in terms of global optics messaging BS, this timing appears to have been ideal. We already know Israel could have done this a long time ago. Or maybe it took them this long to get the IAEA to issue their statement for cover. No clue. All I’m saying is if they waited until now, I guess they did so for a reason. The most likely reason being, of course by a mile, that Netanyahu had some court date (or something? I didn't really look in details sorry) pending and now he can't go The question is, does this explain just the timing of this particular attack, or the whole set of Israeli wars in their entirety? I can absolutely see a world where this entire thread, all of the moralizing and accusing and arguing about who is the wrongest is rendered completely void by the fact that the only reason any of it is happening is to keep Netenyahu out of jail. Obviously you can't read the minds of the Israeli fascists though.
Although Netanyahu’s corruption trials have overlapped almost exactly with military escalations and he faced accusations of Israeli political insiders that he prioritizes politival survival over national interests, a couple of observations need to be made:
- Israel faces real security threats: from Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian proxies, and domestic instability
- The October 7th attack by Hamas was a massive provocation - a genocidal attack, not invented by Netanyahu.
- The idea that all of Israel’s wars are fabricated for political gain is too reductionist imo... it ignores complex, decades-long military, ideological, and regional dynamics
- It further assumes a level of unilateral control over the IDF, Mossad, and broader state apparatus that Netanyahu likely does not have... especially during wartime
So while it is plausible that Netanyahu’s political and legal vulnerabilities have influenced the timing, intensity, or continuation of some military actions, especially in prolonging or resisting ceasefires, I have a hard time imagining that Israel's entire military posture is just a tool for one man's legal defense. Such analyses are more likely oversimplifications, even if emotionally compelling.
On June 16 2025 10:59 Mohdoo wrote:
Early reports a shit ton of US tankers are on the way to Iran. It appears as though something massive just happened from Iran and US says it’s time
Do you mean the article by Military Watch? If so, I'd take their Russia-leaning, anti-NATO editorial slants with a grain of salt. It could frame routine strategic positioning as escalatory or blurring the line between regional deterrence postures and direct combat involvement. I can't find any other source so far mentioning this.
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Seriously why not? He is a hatespeech spewing religious extremist psychopath.
Get him a cell in DenHaag with Bibi for all I care.. but this is the head honcho who constnatly mumbles "all women showing hair are to be killed, and israel must be destroyed"
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On June 16 2025 15:53 KT_Elwood wrote:Seriously why not? He is a hatespeech spewing religious extremist psychopath. Get him a cell in DenHaag with Bibi for all I care.. but this is the head honcho who constnatly mumbles "all women showing hair are to be killed, and israel must be destroyed"
He is the head of a state, a political figure and the supreme religous leader... killing him would trigger unrestrained attacks by Iran and its proxies.
Under international law it is considered as an extrajudicial killing and would probably isolate Israel entirely.
Political killings by governements are an entire different level of escalation.
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On June 16 2025 05:47 PremoBeats wrote:https://www.axios.com/2025/06/15/trump-israel-iran-assassination-khameneiIf Israel had a viable plan or opportunity to assassinate Khamenei, it would suggest extraordinary levels of operational reach and intelligence penetration. Khamenei is likely the most heavily guarded person in Iran, protected by multiple overlapping layers (IRGC, internal intelligence, elite security). For Israel to even identify a time and place where he was vulnerable, they would need high-level human intelligence or close-proximity surveillance. And to even think about killing a political head of state implies the risk of setting off extreme geopolitical consequences. Or was it just a flex to show what they are capable of without a true desire to take action? Meanwhile Elon has turned on Starlink as Iran has shut down internet, although it is unclear how efficient this action is.
There are conflicting reports on Khamenei as a target:
On Sunday, Israel targeted the city of Mashhad, located 2,300 kilometers from the Jewish State, for the first time.
A diplomatic source in the Middle East told Iran International that the Israeli airstrike on Mashhad was a warning to Iran’s Supreme Leader that he is not safe anywhere in the country.
The diplomatic source added that Israel could have eliminated Khamenei on the first night of the operation, but the Israeli government chose to keep him alive to give him a final chance to decide on completely dismantling the Islamic Republic’s uranium enrichment program.
Trump had given Khamenei a two-month deadline to agree to dismantle Iran’s enrichment program. However, the Supreme Leader ignored both his and Israel’s warnings.
With the start of Israel’s airstrikes, that opportunity has been offered once again — this time for him to realistically assess Israel’s military capability and order the dismantling of the enrichment program, the sources said.
www.iranintl.com
On June 16 2025 10:47 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:26 Nebuchad wrote:On June 16 2025 00:11 Mohdoo wrote:On June 16 2025 00:04 Nebuchad wrote:On June 15 2025 23:45 Mohdoo wrote:
It’s very clear Israel and the west monitored the situation until it was far enough along or Iran to be widely condemned, providing the cover to strike like this. Public support for Israel in the West is at an all-time low before this, I think most likely the only thing that they were closely monitoring was my ballsack. I doubt the context in which Israel is buried at -50 net favourability in most of western Europe and around 50% in the US is the context in which they can attack another country, in a way that is so obviously not self-defense that even the liberal media is calling it an attack, and have their enemies widely condemned instead of them. Compare the stuff Macron is saying about Israel vs Iran to the stuff Macron says about Israel vs Gaza. It’s not critically important, but it does matter to some extent. Think about all the other folks Israel could have killed when they assassinated the Hamas leader in Tehran. Whatever their reason, they are showing us very clearly right now they were using a lot of restraint previously. Whatever their reason, it’s apparently totally gone now All of this is quite standard and doesn't support your initial claim that this was a closely monitored time to be doing this or that they had the right amount of cover. A much more likely outcome for doing this, in my opinion, is that even more people see Israel as very clearly causing issues in the Middle East and that support for it tanks even more. I guess it's hard for me to gauge how it's going to play in the US but the proportion of people in Europe who think this is a good thing is probably similar to the proportion of people who support Trump, absolutely negligible numbers. All that matters at the end of the day is the US. I was just using macron as an example of how in terms of global optics messaging BS, this timing appears to have been ideal. We already know Israel could have done this a long time ago. Or maybe it took them this long to get the IAEA to issue their statement for cover. No clue. All I’m saying is if they waited until now, I guess they did so for a reason. The most likely reason being, of course by a mile, that Netanyahu had some court date (or something? I didn't really look in details sorry) pending and now he can't go The question is, does this explain just the timing of this particular attack, or the whole set of Israeli wars in their entirety? I can absolutely see a world where this entire thread, all of the moralizing and accusing and arguing about who is the wrongest is rendered completely void by the fact that the only reason any of it is happening is to keep Netenyahu out of jail. Obviously you can't read the minds of the Israeli fascists though.
Most likely neither. The conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. The trial has been ongoing to years. Netanyahu testified during the war and the cross examinations that recently started will probably take more than a year. The planned strikes against Iran are 2-3 weeks. The intense phase of the war against Hezbollah was two months and did not significantly delay the trial since his testimony was scheduled after it ended. If he'd be so concerned about the trial he would've extended it. The Gaza war he did not start.
The timing of the strikes can be explained without the conspiracy theories. The ceasefire with Hezbollah was 27 November last year. Israel starts preparing after that because they took out their most dangerous proxy while also testing Irans and their own capabilities in the initial exchanges. The preparations take months. Trump surprises Israel because he wants to negotiate with Iran first. Israel can't attack Iran without US consent so they wait until Trump's self imposed deadline of 60 days expires. On day 61 they attacked.
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On June 16 2025 02:43 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 02:22 PremoBeats wrote:On June 16 2025 02:02 Jankisa wrote:
I like how the arguments here boil down to: "but Hamas is worse" and "but Iran wants the Jews dead".
All the things that happen in the meantime, the clearly fucked up "aid distribution" tactics Israel does, the attack on Iran just before the next round of nuclear negotiations don't matter.
Yeah, Hamas is a theocratic death cult with 0 redeeming qualities, Iran's government is also an insane theocracy, Israel on paper isn't, so why spend most of your time explaining away all of their shitty, aggressive, escalatory moves. They will not be reasoned with, and they will most certainly be bombed into submission, there is 0 historic precedence for that, so all you are doing by providing explanations how Israel has the right to do whatever they want is giving tacit approval.
I will never understand the heartlessness of these arguments, the absolute lack of giving a shit about the 99 % of the population that just wants to live their lives. I can't name a single user that hasn't addresses the plight of the Palestinian population or didn't call for the Israeli officials and soldiers who committed war crimes to be held responsible. Collective guild on the Gazans was heavily criticized. Still, the main reason that things aren't heating down for Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran is religious fundamentalism. Hadn't Hamas attacked with genocidal intent and execution on October 7th like its charter says and hadn't Iran enriched to 60% (being non complient with NPT safeguards for the first time in 20 years) - far from the 3,67% limit and closing in to 90% weapon grade, all of this escalation in the past 1,5 years would not have happened. We all understand how this works you know, it's not rocket science. You just ignore everything that Israel is doing in a standard situation, with the, what, 200 Palestinians killed per year on average or something?, the occupation, the gradual taking of land, and then when there's any sort of response to these things, you go "Holy shit, out of nowhere we were attacked, we have to defend ourselves now, all the deaths are on you for having attacked us because of your religious fundamentalism".
I think if you want to understand the way native Americans got destroyed in North America you can just look at the rhetoric surrounding Palestinians.
“Have you seen those Apaches killed farmer John’s family! We had to send the cavalry! Yes it’s terrible that’s it went so ugly, but we couldn’t do nothing, all this violence against poor John!”
Nevermind you took their lands and murdered them year after year after year after year. Future generations will look at our hypocrisy very, very harshly.
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On June 16 2025 15:53 KT_Elwood wrote:Seriously why not? He is a hatespeech spewing religious extremist psychopath. Get him a cell in DenHaag with Bibi for all I care.. but this is the head honcho who constnatly mumbles "all women showing hair are to be killed, and israel must be destroyed"
It would send a clear message that only nukes can keep Iran safe.
Might be in Israel's intrests but not that of US.
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On June 16 2025 16:22 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 15:53 KT_Elwood wrote:Seriously why not? He is a hatespeech spewing religious extremist psychopath. Get him a cell in DenHaag with Bibi for all I care.. but this is the head honcho who constnatly mumbles "all women showing hair are to be killed, and israel must be destroyed" He is the head of a state, a political figure and the supreme religous leader... killing him would trigger unrestrained attacks by Iran and its proxies. Under international law it is considered as an extrajudicial killing and would probably isolate Israel entirely. Political killings by governements are an entire different level of escalation.
I laughed so hard about the idea that israel gives a fuck, my 2nd hand jiddish speaking pager fell off and exploded on my carpet.
I think Trump worries about every "supreme Leader" getting offed, because it's his peer group. He loves Kim Jong Un, and Putin, and Erdogan.. and the nice Scheichs.
It's pure self preservation. Killing one mysogynistic populist asshole.. and soon the plebs will lose all respect for the others!
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On June 16 2025 17:32 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2025 15:53 KT_Elwood wrote:Seriously why not? He is a hatespeech spewing religious extremist psychopath. Get him a cell in DenHaag with Bibi for all I care.. but this is the head honcho who constnatly mumbles "all women showing hair are to be killed, and israel must be destroyed" It would send a clear message that only nukes can keep Iran safe. Might be in Israel's intrests but not that of US.
Of course only nukes keeps you save. What the fuck. To remind people we have north korea.
(Right now Putin and Trump are in charge of the largest nuclear arsenal, they will die soon, and only FSM knows what their impotent rage of not beating death will lead them to do with it)
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EPT
