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On February 06 2025 00:06 KT_Elwood wrote:
@Legan:
Europeans fail with the idea of sending immigrants to extra territorial camps, since their own courts basicly bust the governments.
Italy wasted a whole lotta money and got to take back everyone very recently
Yeah, that has stopped a lot, but I do not trust that things will continue that way. I see an easy strategy here. Do stupid and illegal shit. Courts strike it down. Blame courts for being biased, etc. Next time in power, do judicial reform, citing the previous rulings. Now, you have cut the checks that prevented your evil acts. All while spewing propaganda and increasing support. At no point will they ask if their acts are immoral and illegal for a reason.
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Is America still sending lots of money to Egypt? Not that I'd support such move, but Trump could try to coerce Egypt into taking in Palestinians by suspending the current support and threatening to impose some kind of additional sanctions.
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On February 05 2025 15:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
No other country is willing to take the population from Gaza anyway. It would be suacide.
El Salvador already agreed to take American prisoners. We also have Guantanamo bay. Trump has already shipped people out from the US. You think he’s gonna be more hesitant to mistreat Palestinians? It’s not like a maybe at this point. All Palestinians will be put on boats or planes and the ones who try to stick around will be killed. I really see no indication anything else will happen. It’s a calamity and straight up ethnic cleansing. At what point does it make sense for people to consider tragedy is possible? Why does it feel like people approach this conversation as if extreme grotesque cruelty isn’t possible?
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On February 06 2025 01:22 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 15:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
No other country is willing to take the population from Gaza anyway. It would be suacide. El Salvador already agreed to take American prisoners. We also have Guantanamo bay. Trump has already shipped people out from the US. You think he’s gonna be more hesitant to mistreat Palestinians? It’s not like a maybe at this point. All Palestinians will be put on boats or planes and the ones who try to stick around will be killed. I really see no indication anything else will happen. It’s a calamity and straight up ethnic cleansing. At what point does it make sense for people to consider tragedy is possible? Why does it feel like people approach this conversation as if extreme grotesque cruelty isn’t possible?
Most people aren't as comfortable confronting the reality that they likely would have been complicit with Nazis if they were alive in 1930's Germany.
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United States43468 Posts
On February 06 2025 00:46 Sent. wrote:
Is America still sending lots of money to Egypt? Not that I'd support such move, but Trump could try to coerce Egypt into taking in Palestinians by suspending the current support and threatening to impose some kind of additional sanctions.
Nowhere near enough to buy support for this.
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Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves
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Trump was asked how many Palestinians would be removed from Gaza and he replied "all of them, 1.7 million, 1.8 million". Before the war started the population of Gaza was 2.25 million. Unless someone can provide me with another explanation, this sounds like the estimation of the amount of palestinian deaths caused by the war that he has been receiving internally.
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On February 06 2025 02:04 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves
Laughing through the tears.
The contempt I have for the people that gaslit people on the clear ethnic cleansing campaign Israel has been engaged in is immeasurable.
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On February 06 2025 02:14 Nebuchad wrote:
Trump was asked how many Palestinians would be removed from Gaza and he replied "all of them, 1.7 million, 1.8 million". Before the war started the population of Gaza was 2.25 million. Unless someone can provide me with another explanation, this sounds like the estimation of the amount of palestinian deaths caused by the war that he has been receiving internally.
Yeah, there's probably some portion that escaped Gaza by hook or by crook, but likely a lot of uncounted (publicly as of yet) dead Palestinians
Even the early "who could have known" documentaries (before the "Here are the documents showing this was the plan the whole time" documentaries inevitably come) are going to be mindbreakingly devastating.
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On February 06 2025 02:14 Nebuchad wrote:
Trump was asked how many Palestinians would be removed from Gaza and he replied "all of them, 1.7 million, 1.8 million". Before the war started the population of Gaza was 2.25 million. Unless someone can provide me with another explanation, this sounds like the estimation of the amount of palestinian deaths caused by the war that he has been receiving internally.
And does away with the foolish notion that it can't be a genocide because the population was going up.
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United States43468 Posts
On February 06 2025 02:04 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves
We knew Bibi was awful. My argument was that Israel would like there not to be millions of angry people living next to them but wasn't willing to kill them all to achieve that. I'd still be surprised if the IDF actually went full Einsatzgruppen. Maybe it's easier to shoot children than I think it is but my instinct is that it's really tough to do.
I still hope you're wrong.
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United States43468 Posts
On February 06 2025 02:14 Nebuchad wrote:
Trump was asked how many Palestinians would be removed from Gaza and he replied "all of them, 1.7 million, 1.8 million". Before the war started the population of Gaza was 2.25 million. Unless someone can provide me with another explanation, this sounds like the estimation of the amount of palestinian deaths caused by the war that he has been receiving internally.
An argument that relies on reliable information coming out of Trump's mouth is always a bad argument. If Trump had said 2.5m would you accept that the IDF had raised a quarter million Palestinians from the grave? Presumably not, you'd argue that Trump is famously unreliable. He doesn't become reliable when he says a number you can use.
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On February 06 2025 02:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2025 02:04 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves We knew Bibi was awful. My argument was that Israel would like there not to be millions of angry people living next to them but wasn't willing to kill them all to achieve that. I'd still be surprised if the IDF actually went full Einsatzgruppen. Maybe it's easier to shoot children than I think it is but my instinct is that it's really tough to do. I still hope you're wrong.
I've got bad news...(from several months ago)
Israel Is Routinely Shooting Children in the Head in Gaza
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On February 06 2025 02:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2025 02:14 Nebuchad wrote:
Trump was asked how many Palestinians would be removed from Gaza and he replied "all of them, 1.7 million, 1.8 million". Before the war started the population of Gaza was 2.25 million. Unless someone can provide me with another explanation, this sounds like the estimation of the amount of palestinian deaths caused by the war that he has been receiving internally. An argument that relies on reliable information coming out of Trump's mouth is always a bad argument. If Trump had said 2.5m would you accept that the IDF had raised a quarter million Palestinians from the grave? Presumably not, you'd argue that Trump is famously unreliable. He doesn't become reliable when he says a number you can use.
I'm guessing that the number doesn't really come from Trump though, it's probably something that was fed to him by someone. Could be made up as well of course, it's a fair criticism. It's kind of a weird number to make up in that it's kind of realistic, when Trump makes shit up usually it's more like a sharpie on a hurricane's path.
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So far it's just a predictable wish from Trump and Bibi to make Palestinian problem go-away.
I'm sure that on the ground forced displacement is an option, but to get any country to accept 2 milion people would take one hell of an incentive.
I somehow doubt US or Israel intends to pay a bill that big.
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On February 06 2025 02:04 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves
Small nuance for me: While I of course agree ethnic cleansing has always been a golden dream for Israel, they've also been strategic about to what extent they work towards that, and at what time. I don't think they have been prepared to pull the trigger until now. Now that they have full cover, they are gonna go full-ass.
It looks like the gist of it is:
1: Rubio is getting cold and dirty deals with whatever countries he can to accept immigrants, refugees, prisoners, whatever humans we want to move somewhere else
2: Trump is using his bluster to try to force other countries to take immigrants and refugees
3: Trump has agreements with Netanyahu to develop Gaza and eventually the West Bank where Trump and his faction will insert themselves to profit from it
4: Once all the pieces are in place, basically start rolling up Gaza like a tube of toothpaste where everyone gets on a boat or a plane to whatever country will take them
5: Kill everyone who doesn't go where they are told to go
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On February 06 2025 02:52 pmp10 wrote:
So far it's just a predictable wish from Trump and Bibi to make Palestinian problem go-away.
I'm sure that on the ground forced displacement is an option, but to get any country to accept 2 milion people would take one hell of an incentive.
I somehow doubt US or Israel intends to pay a bill that big.
I don't think Trump/Bibi see any good reason to move them all to the same place.
The point that Kwark made is a good one that people need to keep in mind. You put these 2 million people all in the same place and it ain't gonna go well. They probably plan to split them all up to completely erase the shared identity and eliminate any possibility of making too much of a scene wherever they go.
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United States43468 Posts
On February 06 2025 03:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2025 02:52 pmp10 wrote:
So far it's just a predictable wish from Trump and Bibi to make Palestinian problem go-away.
I'm sure that on the ground forced displacement is an option, but to get any country to accept 2 milion people would take one hell of an incentive.
I somehow doubt US or Israel intends to pay a bill that big. I don't think Trump/Bibi see any good reason to move them all to the same place. The point that Kwark made is a good one that people need to keep in mind. You put these 2 million people all in the same place and it ain't gonna go well. They probably plan to split them all up to completely erase the shared identity and eliminate any possibility of making too much of a scene wherever they go.
There’s nowhere to put them. They can’t find one country willing to take them, finding a dozen spaced out places is a pipe dream. Ironically the US with its low population density and great wealth would be the place most capable of absorbing 2m immigrants spread across a bunch of states. Don’t think that’s the plan though.
It’ll get put on hold indefinitely and in a decade we’ll have 3m Gazans and rampant typhus/cholera in Gaza.
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On February 06 2025 03:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2025 02:52 pmp10 wrote:
So far it's just a predictable wish from Trump and Bibi to make Palestinian problem go-away.
I'm sure that on the ground forced displacement is an option, but to get any country to accept 2 milion people would take one hell of an incentive.
I somehow doubt US or Israel intends to pay a bill that big. I don't think Trump/Bibi see any good reason to move them all to the same place.
Then you'd need multiple countries to sign-up to take them.
That's even more complicated and expensive as the recipients would have to drop their protesting act.
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On February 06 2025 03:10 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2025 02:04 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty surprising how now that Trump is in power suddenly Israel is in favor of ethnically cleansing Palestine, when we all know because we've read the thread that under Biden they were just trying to defend themselves + Show Spoiler +
Small nuance for me: While I of course agree ethnic cleansing has always been a golden dream for Israel, they've also been strategic about to what extent they work towards that, and at what time. I don't think they have been prepared to pull the trigger until now. Now that they have full cover, they are gonna go full-ass.
It looks like the gist of it is:
1: Rubio is getting cold and dirty deals with whatever countries he can to accept immigrants, refugees, prisoners, whatever humans we want to move somewhere else
2: Trump is using his bluster to try to force other countries to take immigrants and refugees
3: Trump has agreements with Netanyahu to develop Gaza and eventually the West Bank where Trump and his faction will insert themselves to profit from it
4: Once all the pieces are in place, basically start rolling up Gaza like a tube of toothpaste where everyone gets on a boat or a plane to whatever country will take them 5: Kill everyone who doesn't go where they are told to go
This is basically what Nazis did to Jewish people. When no one (including the US) would take them, they "discovered" a "final solution".
That's what you're effectively calling: the "best case scenario for Palestinians"
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EPT
