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United States43651 Posts
On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me
It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew.
It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad.
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On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad.
Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there.
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On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there.
Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread.
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United States43651 Posts
On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread.
That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is.
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On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is.
I would argue exactly the same thing about the ICC arrest warrant tbh.
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On November 23 2024 05:15 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is. I would argue exactly the same thing about the ICC arrest warrant tbh. No one is expecting Netanyahu will ever appear before the ICC, its symbolic. Sometimes that is the most you can have for.
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On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is.
Where is the attack ?
The fact your posts are baseless ?
Or the fact you are a negationnist of genocide ? While using 10/07 to justify it ?
Or the fact you're absolutly clueless about middle east ?
So many question for more baseless answers by our expert !
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Northern Ireland26327 Posts
On November 23 2024 05:52 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is. Where is the attack ? The fact your posts are baseless ? Or the fact you are a negationnist of genocide ? While using 10/07 to justify it ? Or the fact you're absolutly clueless about middle east ? So many question for more baseless answers by our expert !
What was he wrong about here? :S
One doesn’t especially have to like the degree of support Israel gets, especially in the US to acknowledge it exists and postulate as to why
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I'm not entirely sure that the american public supports Israel more than the rest of the world. Well there's the evangelical doomsday club that we don't really have elsewhere and it's a large cohort of people so in that sense yeah, but in terms of the rest of the population I don't know that it's not comparable to elsewhere. The political sphere supports Israel more, but the political sphere of the US has never cared much what the population thinks.
I suspect it's a topic where you can find polls that say most things, but I just found this: "Today, Americans are more split on who they sympathize with. In a AP-NORC/Pearson Institute poll from Sept. 12-16, 25 percent leaned more toward Israelis, while 15 percent said they sympathized more with Palestinians, 31 percent answered both equally, and 26 percent said neither." This is a little higher than the european things I find that are more between 15 and 20% support, but it's not egregious. Also this is like 2 minutes of research, probably best disregard this lol.
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One additional reason is while many other countries openly hate the US and others will support some, Israel supports the US in everything and not just in the middle east (where the rest of the countries range from wanting to kill everyone to barely tolerating) . Now they have reason to but they are the US's ride or die country. A loyalty thing.
Some people want a friend who helps them be a better person. But it is pretty nice to have someone who no matter how dumb or bad your choices are they are there to do it with you.
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United States43651 Posts
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high?
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On November 23 2024 05:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 05:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is. I would argue exactly the same thing about the ICC arrest warrant tbh. No one is expecting Netanyahu will ever appear before the ICC, its symbolic. Sometimes that is the most you can have for.
Symbolic or not there will be very real political consequences to the warrant.
Won't be long before Bibi goes touring capitals in Europe.
Soon after Putin will start freely traveling as well and soon ICC is reduced to a joke of an institution.
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On November 23 2024 20:36 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 05:32 Gorsameth wrote:On November 23 2024 05:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is. I would argue exactly the same thing about the ICC arrest warrant tbh. No one is expecting Netanyahu will ever appear before the ICC, its symbolic. Sometimes that is the most you can have for. Symbolic or not there will be very real political consequences to the warrant. Won't be long before Bibi goes touring capitals in Europe. Soon after Putin will start freely traveling as well and soon ICC is reduced to a joke of an institution.
No, this won't make the ICC a joke in any capacity. Most of the individuals that the ICC labeled as war criminals were never prosecuted. It would be highly unusual if Netanyahu faced justice, it'd be a rare exception.
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On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high?
I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out.
If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship.
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On November 23 2024 22:52 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high? I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out. If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship. The US has a veto. Israel needs the US to veto things. Israel does nothing for the US in the UN
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On November 23 2024 22:52 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high? I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out. If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship.
Name one vote that was not about Israel where the US stood alone and Israel voted alongside with them.
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Northern Ireland26327 Posts
On November 23 2024 22:52 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high? I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out. If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship.
The US is a sugar daddy in this arrangement, only without many of the benefits traditionally associated with it
Nothing inherently wrong with having your boy’s back in an unequal friendship, but it very much is one side giving a hell of a lot more here
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If anyone think any european countries will arrest netanyahu, I have a bridge to sell you.
As for why America support Israel unconditionally, the simple answer is the Israel lobby. The Israel lobby controlled both political parties, they controlled the government, simple as that.
If you want a secondary answer, they are both ideologically racist. Biden was known to be racist back then, and I don't think anyone is seriously believe Trump is not racist. Generally speaking, in Europe, the more right wing the government / society is, the more it support to Israel it is. It is true in france, in hungry, and I don't think I need to repeat what the far right Dutch government do to support the Israel hooligan running rampage in his own country.
As for the Israel government being racist, between force sterilization of Ethiopian Jews,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
sniper targeting christian women inside church,
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/16/middleeast/idf-sniper-gaza-church-deaths-intl-hnk/index.html
the bombing of christian area in lebanon.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/19/lebanon-christians-israel-hezbollah-war/
https://www.dw.com/en/israel-reportedly-hits-christian-majority-area-of-lebanon/video-70493777
I rest my case.
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On November 23 2024 22:50 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 20:36 pmp10 wrote:On November 23 2024 05:32 Gorsameth wrote:On November 23 2024 05:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 23 2024 05:04 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 04:08 stilt wrote:On November 23 2024 03:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 23 2024 03:50 KwarK wrote:On November 23 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:
Why are vast swathes of the US quite so pro-Israel anyway?
Certain demographics I understand but the centre ground seems far more pro-Israel than basically every comparable nation as well, and that part somewhat confuses me It doesn't help that by far the most politically recognizable governments of Israel's enemies are openly evil. Murdering women/gays, suicide bombings, attacks on civilians etc. and when asked what their most important political issue is they'll happily say it's the death of every Jew. It's a complicated scenario but how to feel about Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS/Iran/Syria isn't so complicated. And when one side is so obviously baddies it makes it easy for people to assume the other side must not be as bad. Now that the ICC and a bunch of western world leaders are acknowledging that Israel is run by war criminals that should deal with this incorrect perception that it must not be as bad based on who it's fighting, perhaps we'll have progress there. Another 10/10 analysis by kwark the negationnist, biggest mena specialist of the thread. That's still not the devastating attack that you think it is. I would argue exactly the same thing about the ICC arrest warrant tbh. No one is expecting Netanyahu will ever appear before the ICC, its symbolic. Sometimes that is the most you can have for. Symbolic or not there will be very real political consequences to the warrant. Won't be long before Bibi goes touring capitals in Europe. Soon after Putin will start freely traveling as well and soon ICC is reduced to a joke of an institution. No, this won't make the ICC a joke in any capacity. Most of the individuals that the ICC labeled as war criminals were never prosecuted. It would be highly unusual if Netanyahu faced justice, it'd be a rare exception.
No high profile target would ever be delivered to ICC, that was a given.
The point of the institution was that such people could at least be isolated internationally.
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On November 23 2024 23:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 22:52 Billyboy wrote:On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high? I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out. If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship. Name one vote that was not about Israel where the US stood alone and Israel voted alongside with them.
Name one where they voted against the US.
On November 23 2024 23:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2024 22:52 Billyboy wrote:On November 23 2024 15:27 KwarK wrote:
Israel supports the US in very little. It wasn't in Afghanistan. It wasn't in Iraq. It didn't bomb Libya but it did attack a US navy ship. It won't support Ukraine. It openly contradicts US policy in the region. It squabbles with Turkey.
Are you high? I mean obviously, it was Friday night, if you were not, you are really missing out. If Israel moved their military around how helpful would that be to the US? They want that large force their to counter balance Iran now, and the USSR before. I was talking about how they support them in the UN, the people don't constantly talk about shit the US, maybe I'm wrong but when I see votes in the US that go against the US one of the only people voting with them over and over. I'm not saying that they are a vassal state like Belarus is to Russia, or a proxy like Hezbollah is to Iran. But that is the inaccurate comparison that people who hate the US and go down the rabbit hole get to because of their close relationship. The US is a sugar daddy in this arrangement, only without many of the benefits traditionally associated with it Nothing inherently wrong with having your boy’s back in an unequal friendship, but it very much is one side giving a hell of a lot more here
If you knew the answer why ask?
Maybe you are all right and I don't know what they think. But I just spent a week with a bunch of American farmers and they all seemed to support "Israel's right to defend itself" and according to them Israel has their back so they had theirs. Which makes sense to me when I watch American TV and see the good guys as Israeli commandos who storm in to help, or Mossad agents who have the key intel, and the other countries as the terrorists burning American flags and chanting death to America (that part you can see on the news too).
I do find it funny that the claim is people want to hear what others think, but then when they say it, immediately its the pile on. Better listen to all the people who think exactly like you on what others think, sound strategy.
The MIGA's are the same as the MAGA's in way to many ways. 
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EPT
