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On November 14 2024 07:07 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 06:36 KT_Elwood wrote:
As a flood? Now? No. This is why a "one state" solution can't be happening ad hoc, at least not with a netanyahu at the helm.
This isn't a "Now" solution, this would have been a 20 year plan that could have startet 17 years ago like when israel trusted gaza back to the palestinians...trusted them to cross over to israel for work or vacation, no damn rockets, no damn cars or knives for 17 years would have helped.
I often get misread when I compare the forming of israel to basicly any big human migration movement... the superior (not geneticly..but in numbers, technology, wealth, organization whatever..) faction will replace the old or even native human population.
It just happened in the 20th century, not "long ago, so we can't be mad about it comfortably"
A 20 year peace plan requires a 20 year peace plan. Has Israel done this, or indeed trended in that direction? Folks advocating for a one state solution have to be honest and realistic on what that looks like. My personal position is that Israel is OK with a domestic population, until that said population is big enough to offset de facto Jewish political hegemony They won’t necessarily disenfranchise an Arab minority, but minority is the instructive word there.
Yes, maybe I chose the words wrong.
The only way for two groups of people sharing one piece of land peacefully is to become one population and reduce rivalary to sports or jokes about the neighbour city.
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On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:06 KwarK wrote:The area was used as a launchpad by Hamas for an attack on Israel. Keeping it as an empty DMZ makes a degree of military sense. If they move Israelis into the DMZ and then demand another strip of land as a new DMZ deeper into Gaza then that'd be ethnic cleansing. If they keep it clear of civilians then that's just a consequence of Hamas's explicit policy of stationing fighters in civilian areas and using them as launchpads to rape Israeli women and kill Israeli infants. Israel has tried to play nice with Gaza for a while and it just hasn't worked. Gaza's government has made a series of extremely bad policy choices and Israel is taking the steps it requires to secure itself from Gaza. Israel is done with it. Just like they're done with working with the UN when the UN fails to do anything to address Israel's legitimate grievances. The decision to establish a depopulated border zone implies there is no intent to eradicate Gazans though. You only need that zone if you're planning long term coexistence with a neighbour who hates you. You wouldn't invest in high fences with a neighbour if you were planning to just kill him and steal his house. Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide. When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim. The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them. As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis. You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw. As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird. I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name?
I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down.
I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it).
On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:06 KwarK wrote:The area was used as a launchpad by Hamas for an attack on Israel. Keeping it as an empty DMZ makes a degree of military sense. If they move Israelis into the DMZ and then demand another strip of land as a new DMZ deeper into Gaza then that'd be ethnic cleansing. If they keep it clear of civilians then that's just a consequence of Hamas's explicit policy of stationing fighters in civilian areas and using them as launchpads to rape Israeli women and kill Israeli infants. Israel has tried to play nice with Gaza for a while and it just hasn't worked. Gaza's government has made a series of extremely bad policy choices and Israel is taking the steps it requires to secure itself from Gaza. Israel is done with it. Just like they're done with working with the UN when the UN fails to do anything to address Israel's legitimate grievances. The decision to establish a depopulated border zone implies there is no intent to eradicate Gazans though. You only need that zone if you're planning long term coexistence with a neighbour who hates you. You wouldn't invest in high fences with a neighbour if you were planning to just kill him and steal his house. Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide. When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim. The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them. As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis. You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw. As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird. I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction.
You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious.
You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak.
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On November 14 2024 07:29 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 06:18 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:
The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. . Meh. Fascinating post Elwood, unfortunately I remember that one month ago you were talking about how it would be the best outcome if we let Israel take all of Palestine as it wants to do, so I'm not inclined to take you seriously now. Nuance: The idea was that there will be occupation that will work like occupation of germany and austria post world war II. Local population keeps their land - but governance and security will be provided by israel, and slowly released to a non-terrorist authority. Now Netanyahu got rid of Galant, and gets a evangelical nutjob as liason to US, there is no guarantee that occupation won't mean displacement of arabs in favor of settlers.
That's not really a "nuance", that's more like a "lie", you didn't make that distinction at all a month ago.
On October 07 2024 19:01 KT_Elwood wrote:
Netanyahu was given the kickoff to a total war, and one year ago hamas has fumbled all non israeli passport's holders chances on keeping land anywhere in israel. A two state solution is totally off the table.
If removing palestinians from israel is increasing security for israel, than it's now also just another part of the war (to israeli government).
Again.. conflict is simplified to the max. and as long as israel is winning.. netanyahu will continue.
What is your reasoning to decide that a country that has done a settler-style occupation for decades will suddenly decide to do a "post world war II"-style occupation?
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On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:
You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious.
You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak.
As you can see because you quoted the post, I didn't "explain the contradiction", I explained why it isn't a contradiction.
And yes you're right we can all have different opinions, that's great. The other thing that we can do is substantiate our opinions, to explain why we think one thing and not the other. Here's an example: I substantiate my opinion that Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Palestine using their rhetoric (the majority of the current government members have quotes about how they want to do it), their history (they've been sending more and more illegal settlers into the areas that aren't in their control, progressively chasing the people who live there, for decades), their ideology (zionism states that the land the Palestinians currently live on should belong to Israel) and their actions (they are emptying out north Gaza with no intention of letting any Palestinians return, while a group of extremist settlers, sanctioned by the government who participated in several of their conferences, are on the border waiting for the green light to come into Gaza and settle it).
Now let's do the same with that other opinion, IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, and that can be substantiated because... Well, let's hear it
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Northern Ireland24192 Posts
On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:06 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The area was used as a launchpad by Hamas for an attack on Israel. Keeping it as an empty DMZ makes a degree of military sense. If they move Israelis into the DMZ and then demand another strip of land as a new DMZ deeper into Gaza then that'd be ethnic cleansing. If they keep it clear of civilians then that's just a consequence of Hamas's explicit policy of stationing fighters in civilian areas and using them as launchpads to rape Israeli women and kill Israeli infants.
Israel has tried to play nice with Gaza for a while and it just hasn't worked. Gaza's government has made a series of extremely bad policy choices and Israel is taking the steps it requires to secure itself from Gaza. Israel is done with it. Just like they're done with working with the UN when the UN fails to do anything to address Israel's legitimate grievances.
The decision to establish a depopulated border zone implies there is no intent to eradicate Gazans though. You only need that zone if you're planning long term coexistence with a neighbour who hates you. You wouldn't invest in high fences with a neighbour if you were planning to just kill him and steal his house. Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide. When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim. The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them. As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis. You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw. As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird. I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:06 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The area was used as a launchpad by Hamas for an attack on Israel. Keeping it as an empty DMZ makes a degree of military sense. If they move Israelis into the DMZ and then demand another strip of land as a new DMZ deeper into Gaza then that'd be ethnic cleansing. If they keep it clear of civilians then that's just a consequence of Hamas's explicit policy of stationing fighters in civilian areas and using them as launchpads to rape Israeli women and kill Israeli infants.
Israel has tried to play nice with Gaza for a while and it just hasn't worked. Gaza's government has made a series of extremely bad policy choices and Israel is taking the steps it requires to secure itself from Gaza. Israel is done with it. Just like they're done with working with the UN when the UN fails to do anything to address Israel's legitimate grievances.
The decision to establish a depopulated border zone implies there is no intent to eradicate Gazans though. You only need that zone if you're planning long term coexistence with a neighbour who hates you. You wouldn't invest in high fences with a neighbour if you were planning to just kill him and steal his house. Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide. When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim. The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them. As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis. You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw. As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird. I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak.
I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly.
You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion.
‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’
No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community.
If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts.
And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements.
I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do.
Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor
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On November 14 2024 07:51 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:
You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious.
You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak.
As you can see because you quoted the post, I didn't "explain the contradiction", I explained why it isn't a contradiction. And yes you're right we can all have different opinions, that's great. The other thing that we can do is substantiate our opinions, to explain why we think one thing and not the other. Here's an example: I substantiate my opinion that Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Palestine using their rhetoric (the majority of the current government members have quotes about how they want to do it), their history (they've been sending more and more illegal settlers into the areas that aren't in their control, progressively chasing the people who live there, for decades), their ideology (zionism states that the land the Palestinians currently live on should belong to Israel) and their actions (they are emptying out north Gaza with no intention of letting any Palestinians return, while a group of extremist settlers, sanctioned by the government who participated in several of their conferences, are on the border waiting for the green light to come into Gaza and settle it). Now let's do the same with that other opinion, IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, and that can be substantiated because... Well, let's hear it
Your asking me to substantiate a opinion, which I could give you reasons but it would be pointless because you are so set on yours that you treat it as fact and you are not remotely fair in regards to mine and I'm not looking for that experience.
The other part that you did explain (even though you apparently still think you were explaining the opposite) were provable. Either Israel is doing exactly what they want, or the US is exerting influence.
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On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:
[quote]
Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide.
When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim.
The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them.
As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis.
You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw.
As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird.
I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:On November 14 2024 04:26 stilt wrote:
[quote]
Pretty rich coming from a negationnist who bets on the possibility of a genocide.
When has Israel ever be nice toward "gaza" ? Could you please give me some sources about it ? You know, rather than your incessant baseless claim.
The fact you think you have any kind of knowledge about the politics sociology and culture of the "arab world" as you call it is a textbook dunning kruger effect. You're never been there, never read them and don't know any of them.
As for the israeli wish to plan a long term coexistence with their neighbour, do you have any sources then which contradicts mine ? From their wall of separation to their siege of gaza and their atrocities in the west bank, your claim that israelis want a peaceful coexistence with the palestinians is once again baseless and contredicts claims of said israelis.
You generally don't murder every civilians residing in the dmz regardless which is what israel is accused to do while still preventing access to journalists btw.
As far as atrocities go, it's the israeli who are daily shooting at children and slaughtering them with bombs, having a negationnist stance on that is pretty weird.
I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor
I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head.
Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask.
I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now.
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United States42135 Posts
On November 14 2024 07:29 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 06:18 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:
The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. . Meh. Fascinating post Elwood, unfortunately I remember that one month ago you were talking about how it would be the best outcome if we let Israel take all of Palestine as it wants to do, so I'm not inclined to take you seriously now. Nuance: The idea was that there will be occupation that will work like occupation of germany and austria post world war II. Local population keeps their land - but governance and security will be provided by israel, and slowly released to a non-terrorist authority. Now Netanyahu got rid of Galant, and gets a evangelical nutjob as liason to US, there is no guarantee that occupation won't mean displacement of arabs in favor of settlers.
The allies had the manpower and resources to garrison Germany post WW2. Israel does not have the population nor economic backbone to stay mobilized forever.
The Germans after WW2 were tired of conflict and wanted things to return to the peaceful structured lives they had previously experienced. Germany pre-WW2 was one of the most developed nations on Earth, the societal assumptions and structures were all essentially built and familiar to them. The details may change but the basic way of life being imposed by the allies was native.
Gaza is the societal equivalent of an angry young adult that grew up neglected by absent parents and was routinely abused by every other adult. Not because they're Palestinians and I'm racist against Palestinians, because they're living in a failed state that has been failed for generations and that any people living under such conditions would result in societal breakdown.
It hasn't had a functioning economy with jobs and careers and any kind of self determination in generations. Its unable to feed itself and depends entirely on foreign aid which is airdropped in, controlled by a changing cast of actors, some of whom are malicious. As a Gazan you've never learned to have the kind of control over your life that we take for granted because that's simply not been true in living memory. The power may just go out. You may suddenly be forced to leave your homes forever. You can't make long term plans because there's no stability, you don't even have a clear idea of where you next meal may come from. Politics is violence, Hamas executed all their political opponents and retain control with brutal displays of force. Your parents were children when they had you and their parents were children when they were born, none of you have the skills needed to cope with how fucked up your world is.
The idea that Israel could simply move in and impose some kind of government on the place is fantasy. They would be required to uphold a far higher standard than we ask and expect of Gaza's current rulers who have no issues executing dissenters without trials. And they would be doing so against an extremely hostile and uncooperative population. You'd have daily riots and ambushes leading to conscripted Israelis opening fire on crowds while the western media crucified them. All the preexisting failures would go from being Hamas's fault which somehow makes them acceptable to the west to being Israel's fault which is not.
Israel knows all this which is why they'd never try it. They want Gaza to be governed but they very much don't want to be the ones to do it. They keep trying to talk literally any other state into doing it but every other state they ask refuses for the same reasons. Nobody anywhere wants to touch Gaza with a ten foot pole. Israel doesn't want it, they just want Hamas to die so that they can pretend Gaza doesn't exist because after last year it's clear that Hamas will not allow them to pretend Gaza doesn't exist.
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Northern Ireland24192 Posts
On November 14 2024 08:45 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:On November 14 2024 04:28 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I bet against genocide buddy. That’s the side you want to be on. Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head. Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask. I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now.
If that’s your takeaway.
Netanyahu is a far right, nationalist demagogue. To my mind calling him , ‘Bibi’ softens this, even if not massively. So I politely requested folks not doing this. Not you specifically. Do it, or don’t do it. Up to you, or anyone else. Doing a forum search, you’re the biggest offender, but far from the only
You’re obviously JimmyC so don’t bullshit.
Like genuinely, don’t insult my intelligence. You’re not in exile, you were never banned. You use similar phraseology and the same arguments. The longer you dwell, the more obvious it is. There’s zero chance I could return to a similarly tight-knit forum who knew me and remain undetected is basically zero given some of my phrases, often featuring the word ‘bollocks’
Go to the ABL thread and I said I thought you were within your rights to remain as you were never banned.
You’ve also skipped over the whole part of my post where I conceded I was previously too adversarial, and regretted aspects of that.
If you wanna play martyr by all means but I don’t think it really reflects reality
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On November 14 2024 09:25 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 08:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:
[quote]
Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about
What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:29 stilt wrote:
[quote]
Because you are a negationnist who has strictly no idea about what he is talking about
What’s he negating? If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them? It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head. Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask. I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now. If that’s your takeaway. Netanyahu is a far right, nationalist demagogue. To my mind calling him , ‘Bibi’ softens this, even if not massively. So I politely requested folks not doing this. Not you specifically. Do it, or don’t do it. Up to you, or anyone else. Doing a forum search, you’re the biggest offender, but far from the only You’re obviously JimmyC so don’t bullshit. Like genuinely, don’t insult my intelligence. You’re not in exile, you were never banned. You use similar phraseology and the same arguments. The longer you dwell, the more obvious it is. There’s zero chance I could return to a similarly tight-knit forum who knew me and remain undetected is basically zero given some of my phrases, often featuring the word ‘bollocks’ Go to the ABL thread and I said I thought you were within your rights to remain as you were never banned. You’ve also skipped over the whole part of my post where I conceded I was previously too adversarial, and regretted aspects of that. If you wanna play martyr by all means but I don’t think it really reflects reality
JimmyC literally does not exist, that you missed the joke because you continually misspell someones name does not make me the jerk. I pointed out that the one other person you talked about it you were polite with, which again helps my case, and no one else did I even see you mention it. But you most certainly did not call it a "pet" name insinuating what you were. Then calling people who use Bibi as "offender" because you THINK it some how softens him, which you don't like. There is plenty of people who hate him and call him Bibi as well. All this rage you have in this post is based on faulty assumptions. Which is way to common on this site and to turn you phrase but adjust it to fit, you are not the worst offender, and far from the only one, but sadly are one of them and oddly more so the later it gets.
Feel free to be mad at me for things I actually do, just stop making shit up to fit your narrative of me.
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Northern Ireland24192 Posts
On November 14 2024 09:43 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 09:25 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 08:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
What’s he negating?
If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them?
It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
What’s he negating?
If Israel wants to go full genocide, who’s stopping them?
It’s not a value judgement, but you’ve the one nation that has the biggest leverage with Israel now having a much more pro-Israeli position. This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military. The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head. Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask. I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now. If that’s your takeaway. Netanyahu is a far right, nationalist demagogue. To my mind calling him , ‘Bibi’ softens this, even if not massively. So I politely requested folks not doing this. Not you specifically. Do it, or don’t do it. Up to you, or anyone else. Doing a forum search, you’re the biggest offender, but far from the only You’re obviously JimmyC so don’t bullshit. Like genuinely, don’t insult my intelligence. You’re not in exile, you were never banned. You use similar phraseology and the same arguments. The longer you dwell, the more obvious it is. There’s zero chance I could return to a similarly tight-knit forum who knew me and remain undetected is basically zero given some of my phrases, often featuring the word ‘bollocks’ Go to the ABL thread and I said I thought you were within your rights to remain as you were never banned. You’ve also skipped over the whole part of my post where I conceded I was previously too adversarial, and regretted aspects of that. If you wanna play martyr by all means but I don’t think it really reflects reality JimmyC literally does not exist, that you missed the joke because you continually misspell someones name does not make me the jerk. I pointed out that the one other person you talked about it you were polite with, which again helps my case, and no one else did I even see you mention it. But you most certainly did not call it a "pet" name insinuating what you were. Then calling people who use Bibi as "offender" because you THINK it some how softens him, which you don't like. There is plenty of people who hate him and call him Bibi as well. All this rage you have in this post is based on faulty assumptions. Which is way to common on this site and to turn you phrase but adjust it to fit, you are not the worst offender, and far from the only one, but sadly are one of them and oddly more so the later it gets. Feel free to be mad at me for things I actually do, just stop making shit up to fit your narrative of me.
I’m not sure what the issue is here. I didn’t single you out, I said personally I find the ‘Bibi’ pet name makes him more cuddly than his is, and I don’t like it.
You’re feel to reject it that assessment.
Well, fuck me for making a typo man. I apologise for forgetting you’re a ‘Jimmi’ rather than a ‘Jimmy’ and my memory not having that bandwidth
It folks think I’m currently being an arsehole they can vote. Although I also made a typo in my own poll there so there is that
Poll: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here?Now (12) 71% Yes (5) 29% 17 total votes Your vote: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Now
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On November 14 2024 09:55 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 09:43 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 09:25 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 08:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military.
The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:44 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
This points out one of the commonly held beliefs on this thread that contradicts itself. People believe it is true that Israel wants to completely eradicate the Gazan's and people of the Westbank AND that the US is doing nothing to slow or stop the Israelis. Either could be true, but both can not because if both were true we would see the Israelis operate like the Russians instead of like a western military.
The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch. What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head. Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask. I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now. If that’s your takeaway. Netanyahu is a far right, nationalist demagogue. To my mind calling him , ‘Bibi’ softens this, even if not massively. So I politely requested folks not doing this. Not you specifically. Do it, or don’t do it. Up to you, or anyone else. Doing a forum search, you’re the biggest offender, but far from the only You’re obviously JimmyC so don’t bullshit. Like genuinely, don’t insult my intelligence. You’re not in exile, you were never banned. You use similar phraseology and the same arguments. The longer you dwell, the more obvious it is. There’s zero chance I could return to a similarly tight-knit forum who knew me and remain undetected is basically zero given some of my phrases, often featuring the word ‘bollocks’ Go to the ABL thread and I said I thought you were within your rights to remain as you were never banned. You’ve also skipped over the whole part of my post where I conceded I was previously too adversarial, and regretted aspects of that. If you wanna play martyr by all means but I don’t think it really reflects reality JimmyC literally does not exist, that you missed the joke because you continually misspell someones name does not make me the jerk. I pointed out that the one other person you talked about it you were polite with, which again helps my case, and no one else did I even see you mention it. But you most certainly did not call it a "pet" name insinuating what you were. Then calling people who use Bibi as "offender" because you THINK it some how softens him, which you don't like. There is plenty of people who hate him and call him Bibi as well. All this rage you have in this post is based on faulty assumptions. Which is way to common on this site and to turn you phrase but adjust it to fit, you are not the worst offender, and far from the only one, but sadly are one of them and oddly more so the later it gets. Feel free to be mad at me for things I actually do, just stop making shit up to fit your narrative of me. I’m not sure what the issue is here. I didn’t single you out, I said personally I find the ‘Bibi’ pet name makes him more cuddly than his is, and I don’t like it. You’re feel to reject it that assessment. Well, fuck me for making a typo man. I apologise for forgetting you’re a ‘Jimmi’ rather than a ‘Jimmy’ and my memory not having that bandwidth It folks think I’m currently being an arsehole they can vote. Although I also made a typo in my own poll there so there is that Poll: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here?Now (12) 71% Yes (5) 29% 17 total votes Your vote: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Now
Quick search shows you have always called Jimmi Jimmy, doesn't appear like a typo or that he cared so why would I? But it did seem like something to poke fun at. I had no idea you would go full tantrum on this thread while having a fine discussion with me on the other thread. Rather than strike back I'm just going to not respond to you for a while. Good night!
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Northern Ireland24192 Posts
On November 14 2024 10:26 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 09:55 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 09:43 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 09:25 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 08:45 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 08:00 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 07:37 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 05:02 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch.
What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. I agree we will have to wait to see what the admin switch does. Bibi seems to love Trump so whether that means it will get "worse" because he will do even more or whether it will be "better" because he wants to give Trump the win at home, time will tell. In my opinion neither choice will have anything to do with what is better for any of the civilians. Most people don’t claim Israel wants to exterminate the populace, just be hardline enough to push them out and seize territory. Can you just call him Netanyahu rather than his pet name? I mean they "won" the territory long ago, if they wanted it, it would be there's. Their are certainly Israeli citizens that want it, sometimes the government supports it, other times they tear it down. I'll keep using his commonly used nickname just as the rest of the thread does. I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits. (quickly looked up bibi and I'm far from the only one using it in the threads, hell the media uses it). On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 04:58 Billyboy wrote:On November 14 2024 04:50 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
The previous admin was deficient to that sensibility in ways, they still wouldn’t allow that on their watch.
What does this current admin allow, we shall see. I'm not saying the US has full control or that they have no control. It is just that you can't hold the belief that Israel wants genocide and that the US is not stopping them. Because if that was both true these already way to high numbers would be 100x higher. It would be worse than Syria because Israel has a way better military and better tech. But it is not. So either Israel does not want to exterminate them all, or the US is holding them back very dramatically. This isn't contradictory, the "either or" doesn't work. The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. It is in line with their actions, their rhetoric, their history and their ideology. It would be weird if they didn't want to do it. The US isn't stopping them from doing that in the way that they're doing it right now, but they have stopped them from doing it in other ways in the past. It isn't illogical for Netanyahu to believe that if he did the genocide in a way that was impossible for Biden to deny, even insincerely, then he wouldn't be allowed to do it. You may question whether he is correct that he is walking a line, that's a question I can't answer. It could be that Biden would let him do anything, I don't know. All I know is that's different from a contradiction. You just explained the contradiction. But I agree that Biden is not stopping what the IDF is doing right now, that is obvious. You can assume that they have a massive evil plan to take over everywhere, starting with Gaza and moving on to Lebanon and the rest of the world. Someone else can think that the IDF is simply doing everything in their power to destroy Hamas, consequences be damned. But either way the US has influence and is exerting it. How much how little, who knows. Hell we don't even know how different the public speak is from behind the closed door speak. I find him a thoroughly dangerous, contemptible man, and that ‘Bibi’ as a pet name subtracts from that, even subtly. You’re free to keep using it. Many, indeed the majority in this thread do not. But it’s a suggestion. ‘I'm trying to be nice to you in spite of how you treat me, but that too has limits’ No, fuck right off with that nonsense. There was once a user called JimmyC I was overly aggressive to at times, but but you’re Billy, a new poster in our community. If you can find a post where I’ve been genuinely uncharitable/bullying to you Jimmy Billy, show me the fucking receipts. And I don’t mean occasionally acerbically toned, as folks should know that’s often just how I communicate. But I’ve studiously tried to avoid personal attacks and digs as it fouled this thread up in the past, also lead to a poster departing who I valued despite disagreements. I think at present it’s Western pressure stopping Israel for doing what it wants to currently do. Under previous regimes or different cultural epochs, I also don’t think Israel is always a far right ethnostate either. So the ‘what it wants to do’ isn’t some static factor I can't find a JimmyC when I search, but you and a few others seem almost obsessed. He sure lives rent free in your head. Sure the first receipt is where when I use Bibi you call it a pet name, for any of other 10 plus users you say nothing or once politely ask. I'm not going to put in a ton of effort to more right now. If that’s your takeaway. Netanyahu is a far right, nationalist demagogue. To my mind calling him , ‘Bibi’ softens this, even if not massively. So I politely requested folks not doing this. Not you specifically. Do it, or don’t do it. Up to you, or anyone else. Doing a forum search, you’re the biggest offender, but far from the only You’re obviously JimmyC so don’t bullshit. Like genuinely, don’t insult my intelligence. You’re not in exile, you were never banned. You use similar phraseology and the same arguments. The longer you dwell, the more obvious it is. There’s zero chance I could return to a similarly tight-knit forum who knew me and remain undetected is basically zero given some of my phrases, often featuring the word ‘bollocks’ Go to the ABL thread and I said I thought you were within your rights to remain as you were never banned. You’ve also skipped over the whole part of my post where I conceded I was previously too adversarial, and regretted aspects of that. If you wanna play martyr by all means but I don’t think it really reflects reality JimmyC literally does not exist, that you missed the joke because you continually misspell someones name does not make me the jerk. I pointed out that the one other person you talked about it you were polite with, which again helps my case, and no one else did I even see you mention it. But you most certainly did not call it a "pet" name insinuating what you were. Then calling people who use Bibi as "offender" because you THINK it some how softens him, which you don't like. There is plenty of people who hate him and call him Bibi as well. All this rage you have in this post is based on faulty assumptions. Which is way to common on this site and to turn you phrase but adjust it to fit, you are not the worst offender, and far from the only one, but sadly are one of them and oddly more so the later it gets. Feel free to be mad at me for things I actually do, just stop making shit up to fit your narrative of me. I’m not sure what the issue is here. I didn’t single you out, I said personally I find the ‘Bibi’ pet name makes him more cuddly than his is, and I don’t like it. You’re feel to reject it that assessment. Well, fuck me for making a typo man. I apologise for forgetting you’re a ‘Jimmi’ rather than a ‘Jimmy’ and my memory not having that bandwidth It folks think I’m currently being an arsehole they can vote. Although I also made a typo in my own poll there so there is that Poll: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here?Now (12) 71% Yes (5) 29% 17 total votes Your vote: Am I, WombaT, completely unreasonable here? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Now
Quick search shows you have always called Jimmi Jimmy, doesn't appear like a typo or that he cared so why would I? But it did seem like something to poke fun at. I had no idea you would go full tantrum on this thread while having a fine discussion with me on the other thread. Rather than strike back I'm just going to not respond to you for a while. Good night!
I had no issue with you poking fun of it.
Where am I going full tantrum?
I said I didn’t like Bibi as a moniker, which you took as a personal sleight and then dodged actually addressing my issue, in either the positive or the negative
I said you’re obviously a former user, which also doesn’t bother me, indeed I expressed regrets for previous bad interactions and you flounced off into the night while fucking bitching so you could retreat into your wee fucking martyr complex
Get the fuck over yourself. I’m getting serious flashbacks. Fuck me.
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On November 14 2024 07:41 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 07:29 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 14 2024 06:43 Nebuchad wrote:On November 14 2024 06:18 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:
The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. . Meh. Fascinating post Elwood, unfortunately I remember that one month ago you were talking about how it would be the best outcome if we let Israel take all of Palestine as it wants to do, so I'm not inclined to take you seriously now. Nuance: The idea was that there will be occupation that will work like occupation of germany and austria post world war II. Local population keeps their land - but governance and security will be provided by israel, and slowly released to a non-terrorist authority. Now Netanyahu got rid of Galant, and gets a evangelical nutjob as liason to US, there is no guarantee that occupation won't mean displacement of arabs in favor of settlers. That's not really a "nuance", that's more like a "lie", you didn't make that distinction at all a month ago. Show nested quote +On October 07 2024 19:01 KT_Elwood wrote:
Netanyahu was given the kickoff to a total war, and one year ago hamas has fumbled all non israeli passport's holders chances on keeping land anywhere in israel. A two state solution is totally off the table.
If removing palestinians from israel is increasing security for israel, than it's now also just another part of the war (to israeli government).
Again.. conflict is simplified to the max. and as long as israel is winning.. netanyahu will continue.
What is your reasoning to decide that a country that has done a settler-style occupation for decades will suddenly decide to do a "post world war II"-style occupation?
Settlers get national and international backlash, Retaliation strikes in Gaza.. usually got backlash, OCT 7th allowed a massive military with little to no backlash as people saw it "Necessary"... and now netanyahu has removed the guy that was asking for:
- if orthodox settlers want war, they got to serve
- how could oct 7th have happend under Netanyahu? "letting it happen despite info" was a real accusal... now its gone
- keep offering seize fires and end of operation
So Netanyahu can exclude his religious zealots from harm, and keep sending troops to their cause..that goes beyond whatever OCT 7th justified.
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On November 14 2024 06:18 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 05:15 Nebuchad wrote:
The government of Israel clearly wants to remove all Palestinians, as they frequently are quoted as saying. . Meh. So they are all powerful but somehow did hand gaza to Palis in 2006/7.. only to hamas immediately grab power and funnel all international aid and external money into fighting israel for 17 years, peaking in a terrorist raid in flipflops. Now Israel is both are all evil and powerful, yet instead of cheaply clusterbombing the multiple launch sites everywhere in gaza... they don't bring down the price of tomatoes, which is considered to be genocide by some french scholar. Hamas on OCT7th gave people like Netanyahu the perfect ramp to start an all out war against them. Like the Nazis in germany, the combatants and ideologist cling to the civil population like shit to a boot and can claim "war crime nanananana naaah!" for every hit against them, because it most likely has caused civilian casualties - completely fucking ignoring that their Terror raid had some 1280 to 20 ration in killed civilians over soldiers. Egypt shoots palis if they try to enter egypt - they don't fucking want them in their country, they don't want to be at war with israel, they don't want to be south-west lebanon, they don't want an islamic terror organization to dig in and hide between their civilians shooting useless junk rockets for a century. It's a damn anti-Israel ideology of hamas and low-key muslim traditionalist anti-semitisem that somehow propels the idea through generations, that this god forsaken strip of land needs to be owned by arabs, preferebly muslims. The smart thing to do would be to lay down weapons, migrate to israel, mix up with jews, and just share the damn country..which is at large superior in technology, economy, equality and safety to any of it's neighbor shitholes (despite the racists and religious zealots) But as I said - the brass of hamas, and exile leaders, doesn't want the war to stop, because they immediately will become useless, powerless, jobless. And people everywhere in the world keep falling for their narrative.
I decided to ignore you but your comment about french scholar and tomatoes has to be answered :
- 09/10/23 : gallant says gaza is "under siege, no food, no water, no electricity, only damages" : that's his words
- Eilan pushed for his famine-induced plan since november 2023 and has repeatdly lobbied for it
- meanwhile at the same time both un and ngo indicates the amount of food is way too low
- in december 2023, famine is already mentionned
- multiples sources indicate 500 trucks per day were supplying gaza before 10/07
- the number of trucks has remained steady low ever since
- israeli army stated 70 trucks per day supplied gaza during october 2024
- unwar international member indicates rather 37 during the same period
- as a consequence, food prices is rising, a single tomato at 2.5€ is insane and that's in the south, not the north
- all these elements are corroborent to a famine, it's straight facts like I didn't make up and the discourse of the israeli etablishment, the various testimonies, reports and video records all point to this thing.
But there is more :
- the systemic destruction of the health system of gaza (from a un rapport)
- the destruction of water plan which israeli soldiers post proudly on tik tok has been posted as well
- a lack of sane water for a overcrownded population will always generate epidemy
- I posted a article from nature which is about the impossibility of knowing the death toll, the intervenants are epidemiologists
Now for the intellectuals :
- I barely quoted/talked about french scholars so you obviously don't read. The ones I referenced are cypel and fillu who are both well known by specialists in the anglo saxon world.
- most of the scholars I quoted or based my affirmation are specialists who are generally either israelis or palestinians/lebanese
- my most used sources are un rapports, haareetz and 972mag.
So yeah, all in all, I indeed base my analysis on various scholars and facts coming from different sources. Not all the baseless bs that someone like kwark is throwing constantly.
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There will be a vigil for Sinwar... possibly for some he was a Nelson Mendela type of leader. 
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mississauga-nelson-mandela-yahya-sinwar-hamas
I can't wait for November 26th. I will be there with bell's on!
Trump is a wheeler-dealer. The spectre of Trump's return looms large over Joe Biden's negotiation team. It is going to be very embarrassing for the Biden admin if Trump cleans this up fast. Now, the Biden team is under more pressure and they are on the clock.
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You think Trump is going to bring peace to the holy land fast? How do you think he's going to do what no one has been able to do for thousands of years?
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On November 18 2024 09:09 Sermokala wrote:
You think Trump is going to bring peace to the holy land fast? How do you think he's going to do what no one has been able to do for thousands of years?
Surely Jared still has his old notes.
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On November 18 2024 09:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 09:09 Sermokala wrote:
You think Trump is going to bring peace to the holy land fast? How do you think he's going to do what no one has been able to do for thousands of years? Surely Jared still has his old notes.
Exactly, and now that Gaza has been flattened, they can build that golf resort. Success is all but guaranteed!
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On November 17 2024 18:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:There will be a vigil for Sinwar... possibly for some he was a Nelson Mendela type of leader. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mississauga-nelson-mandela-yahya-sinwar-hamasI can't wait for November 26th. I will be there with bell's on! Trump is a wheeler-dealer. The spectre of Trump's return looms large over Joe Biden's negotiation team. It is going to be very embarrassing for the Biden admin if Trump cleans this up fast. Now, the Biden team is under more pressure and they are on the clock.
Is he also going to rid the internet of toxicity, turn all the rivers in the world into chocolate and candy and deliver gifts to every child in the world on Christmas day?
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EPT
