EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 32
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hitthat
Poland2243 Posts
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Taelshin
Canada415 Posts
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r00ty
Germany1030 Posts
On October 11 2023 06:40 maybenexttime wrote: I'd like to give a shout-out to Channel 4 News. Their coverage of the conflict has been nothing short of stellar. On the ground coverage, interviews with victims on both sides, not tolerating bullshit from the officials of either side. True. I'm mostly watching CNN, DW and Al Jazeera, all of them with a grain of salt, but Channel 4 stands out. It's pretty stellar and fair reporting IMHO. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22678 Posts
On October 11 2023 15:29 Oukka wrote: Just why would Egypt (or really any other country) do that? If the answer is "because its the right thing to do", how come that standard doesn't apply to Israel? Edit: these superficially reasonable plans of forced mass migration have more than a whiff of ethnic cleansing to them. Really doesn't sit well with me. They straight up read as "how best can we aid and abet the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians" to me and as far as I can tell includes the West Bank too. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1847 Posts
On October 11 2023 16:03 GreenHorizons wrote: They straight up read as "how best can we aid and abet the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians" to me and as far as I can tell includes the West Bank too. What I would like to see is someone, the in probably, forcing Israel to open a human aid corridor out of Gaza, probably by boat. Allow anyone that is willing to leave for a better life to emigrate to the American middle west and make sure it does not develop into Gaza 2.0. We all agree that no one should be forcefully relocated, but what about the people who just want out? A few of them would use that to continue supporting hamas from abroad but who cares, hamas is still trapped in Gaza. It's still fictional because no one would take them in and Israel won't allow access to their prison and Noone will make them. But it would be the right thing to do, even if it would look like Israel had won with their politics of just managing a human rights crisis they partially created. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4691 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
On October 11 2023 16:03 GreenHorizons wrote: They straight up read as "how best can we aid and abet the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians" to me and as far as I can tell includes the West Bank too. It's not a realistic option anyway and would not solve the Palestinian demand for return. Two state solution still makes the most sense but there's zero trust between the different sides and none of them seem very interested in negotiations. This conflict might be a turning point but who knows. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2243 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4691 Posts
Netanyahu should at least PRETEND he is willing to negotiate. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17834 Posts
On October 11 2023 17:36 hitthat wrote: Non-negociations with hostage takers is well grounded policy. It aims to not giving impression that the tactics rewards the perpetrators. Just imagine if some militant groups realised taking hostages brings them exacly what they want. What is rationale than? Take more hostages. Except that in reality where the rest of us live, people very often negotiate with hostage takers. Prisoner swaps are common, for instance. People also pay ransom, both for hostages and for ransomware attacks. If they didn't, there'd be far fewer attempts at doing either of these things. And yes, terrorist organizations taking hostages are also negotiated with. Sure, it makes better TV if derring do and brawn save the hostages, but realistically most hostage situations are solved through negotiation. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1030 Posts
On October 10 2023 15:23 r00ty wrote: In my opinion there will be no negotiating about the hostages. This was to be expected. They will not negotiate with Hamas and the IDF won't be stopped by human shields or civilians. Just listen to the rhetoric the Israeli government is using. They'll clean house and it wil be a horrible humanitarian catastrophy with tens of thousand dead. What is the release of execution footage going to achieve other than supercharge support for Israel? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21343 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4119 Posts
A government does have a duty to protect it's citizens and even though it already failed that duty by allowing those people to be taken hostage, the duty of care doesn't end there. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4691 Posts
I have no ilusions that anyone will be brought to justice for crimes against Palestinians. I do hope however that families of those hostages will at least bring a civil case for this. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10180 Posts
On October 11 2023 17:45 Silvanel wrote: Not true. Negotiating with hostage takers is common policy around the world. Some countries (like US and Poland) even have specially trained people for that. Its also common practice for corporations and countries to negotiate with pirates and terrorists secretly and pay ransoms for its employees/citizens. Netanyahu should at least PRETEND he is willing to negotiate. Negotiating with terrorists is not unprecedented. Also adopting a policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists is not unprecedented. What probably is unprecedented is prosecuting a head of state for not following the approach that you think is the correct one. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21343 Posts
On October 11 2023 18:06 Fildun wrote: Doesn't work. Israel needs the international moral outrage of the attack to blind us to the casualties being inflicted in Gaza.What about first trying to get the hostages back through whatever means you can and then retaliating if one is so keen on doing that. A government does have a duty to protect it's citizens and even though it already failed that duty by allowing those people to be taken hostage, the duty of care doesn't end there. Can't wait for months while you do hostage negotiations, exchange hostages and then proceed to starve and bomb civilians without the rest of the world going "ehm, maybe this is a bit excessive". | ||
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r00ty
Germany1030 Posts
On October 11 2023 18:08 Silvanel wrote: Well. I do agree with You r00ty. That was forseable outcome. Israeli government didn't even try to bring it's people home. And in my opinion thats what they should do. Thats the duty of the government - to protect its people, not going on some bloody revange quest and disregrad their lives. I have no ilusions that anyone will be brought to justice for crimes against Palestinians. I do hope however that families of those hostages will at least bring a civil case for this. It's fucked up you're right. I mean at least try to get the children out somehow, that would be the bare minimum. Also many of the hostages have dual citizenships, their other home countries should at least try. I had some hope, but this is Israel in existential-threat-mode. They don't care about rules, how it looks or our opinion. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9098 Posts
On October 11 2023 18:02 Gorsameth wrote: Lets be real here, those hostages were dead the moment they were taken. The only way to get them to survive was for Israel to not retaliate and no country in the world would have sat by and 'rewarded' a terrorist organisation after the brutality of the attack. They could be exchanged for hundreds of Palestinian fighters Israel can easily take. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6190 Posts
On October 11 2023 18:22 r00ty wrote: It's fucked up you're right. I mean at least try to get the children out somehow, that would be the bare minimum. Also many of the hostages have dual citizenships, their other home countries should at least try. I had some hope, but this is Israel in existential-threat-mode. They don't care about rules, how it looks or our opinion. How? Hamas isn't willing to negotiate unless Israel stops the attacks which is out of the question for obvious reasons. The only other option is to get them out by force but that requires a ground invasion. That is going to happen but is apparently too late. Waiting to respond until the hostages are free makes no sense because it gives Hamas no incentive to release them. Instead they benefit by keeping the hostages since it'll prevent Israel from attacking them. | ||
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Excludos
Norway7943 Posts
On October 11 2023 18:22 r00ty wrote: It's fucked up you're right. I mean at least try to get the children out somehow, that would be the bare minimum. Also many of the hostages have dual citizenships, their other home countries should at least try. I had some hope, but this is Israel in existential-threat-mode. They don't care about rules, how it looks or our opinion. I'm impressed that people have just decided that "nothing is being done", when absolutely none of us have any insight into what's happening behind closed doors. Hostage negotiations are usually not done through the news. Neither are rescue operations | ||
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