EPTIsnt one of the predominant reasons people have for the Second Amendment that we should have guns in event we require violence against an oppressive (ie fascist) state?
2020 Presidential Debate - Page 23
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Isnt one of the predominant reasons people have for the Second Amendment that we should have guns in event we require violence against an oppressive (ie fascist) state? | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2720 Posts
On October 01 2020 14:46 Zambrah wrote: " A civil society cannot tolerate actors that appoint themselves to label certain movements fascist and respond with violence." Isnt one of the predominant reasons people have for the Second Amendment that we should have guns in event we require violence against an oppressive (ie fascist) state? This is kind of where I end up, though I do agree that molotovs and random violence aren't desireable. As for why PB should denounce and antifa cannot - I can literally google to find leadership members of PB and see what they have to say. Does antifa have a message channel that they use to communicate, which they could then use to disavow these false members? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Maybe you were thinking that I wanted to take away the gun rights of Antifa? You tell me. Maybe you truly think that's my goal in all this. I caution you that you'll find yourself hard pressed to defend violence directed against a Patriot Prayer march in a city as a necessary response to an oppressive state. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
I mean, that would make the bar... what, the Government would have to come out and literally declare "We are now the United Fascist States" before they could be called fascist? Antifa seems to come out a lot in situations where police brutality occurs, aka unwarranted state violence against it's own people, that seems like a situation where some anti-fascist ideals might be warranted being considered, and it certainly seems like the kind of situation proponents of the Second Amendment should see and think, "well, this is one of the big reasons I own guns, to prevent the state from enacting unjust violence on us." | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23956 Posts
"well, this is one of the big reasons I own guns, to prevent the state from enacting unjust violence on us." Likely because those specific words don't mean what people who see inconsistency think they mean. Think Cliven "‘Are they better off as slaves?" Bundy | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22369 Posts
On October 01 2020 15:27 Zambrah wrote: Because they believe the 2nd amendment exists to protect white people from unjust violence, blacks being allowed to own guns is something they don't agree with, let alone using those guns to protect themselves against whites or the state.I just have a hard time squaring the belief that one must be armed to prevent oppressive governments but also one must not be violent in a civil society against proclaimed fascists. I mean, that would make the bar... what, the Government would have to come out and literally declare "We are now the United Fascist States" before they could be called fascist? Antifa seems to come out a lot in situations where police brutality occurs, aka unwarranted state violence against it's own people, that seems like a situation where some anti-fascist ideals might be warranted being considered, and it certainly seems like the kind of situation proponents of the Second Amendment should see and think, "well, this is one of the big reasons I own guns, to prevent the state from enacting unjust violence on us." | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
Edit : ah yeah, in the quote, about the covid relief checks. Trump wants the food aid boxes to poor family to compulsorily include a letter with his name : The letter comes in both English and Spanish on White House letterhead and features Trump’s bold signature: “As President, safeguarding the health and well-being of our citizens is one of my highest priorities,” it reads. “As part of our response to coronavirus, I prioritized sending nutritious food from our farmers to families in need throughout America.” The move is the latest example of Trump using the levers of government and taxpayer dollars for self-promotion as he runs for re-election. In the early months of the crisis, the president enclosed letters with his signature to millions of Americans getting stimulus money stemming from a congressional aid package – and made sure his name was printed on the checks. His health department is now rushing to push out a $300 million taxpayer-funded ad campaign promoting the administration’s coronavirus response. Ah yes, I also forgot that 300M taxpayer money funded campaign to laud the administration's coronavirus response. In what world is that acceptable, Republicans?? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/01/trump-letter-food-aid-boxes-424230 | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8080 Posts
In what world is that acceptable, Republicans?? Still asking that question? | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On October 01 2020 22:10 dUTtrOACh wrote: Well, no offense, but calling a healthcare system "OBAMACARE" could be considered worse. "Affordable care act" is the law's name. "Obamacare" The term "Obamacare" was originally coined by opponents as a pejorative. The term emerged in March 2007 when healthcare lobbyist Jeanne Schulte Scott wrote, "We will soon see a 'Giuliani-care' and 'Obama-care' to go along with 'McCain-care', 'Edwards-care', and a totally revamped and remodeled 'Hillary-care' from the 1990s".[314][315] According to research by Elspeth Reeve, the expression was used in early 2007, generally by writers describing the candidate's proposal for expanding coverage for the uninsured.[316] In May 2007 Mitt Romney introduced it to political discourse, saying, "How can we get those people insured without raising taxes and without having government take over healthcare?' And let me tell you, if we don't do it, the Democrats will. If the Democrats do it, it will be socialized medicine; it'll be government-managed care. It'll be what's known as Hillarycare or Barack Obamacare, or whatever you want to call it."[314] By mid-2012, Obamacare had become the colloquial term used both by supporters and by opponents.[316] Obama endorsed the nickname, saying, "I have no problem with people saying Obama cares. I do care."[317] Anything else, on topic? | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On October 01 2020 14:39 Danglars wrote: I don't see any reason why the Proud Boys would disavow, and the local Antifa branch would not. You don't present one. I think the Antifa ideal should be denounced pretty easily, even by somebody like you. A civil society cannot tolerate actors that appoint themselves to label certain movements fascist and respond with violence. I include violence against property and against persons in this description. They're behaving and have behaved as an advance group taking active measures against who they view as fascists. This should be easily differentiated from time-honored defensive efforts protecting person, family, and property. Street melee and molotovs aren't transferable between arming yourself for self-defense. Maybe some imaginative, reformed Antifa could make better use of their second amendment rights and publish pamphlets denouncing tyranny directed against them ... and I wish you all the luck with that, if you're disposed to it. Because there is no such thing as a "local ANTIFA branch." Similarly - there is not an "Office of Affairs for Those Who Prefer Vanilla Ice Cream". There might be a local "Vanilla Ice Cream Lovers" club, but they have no authority over consumers of ice cream at large. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8080 Posts
On October 01 2020 22:10 dUTtrOACh wrote: Well, no offense, but calling a healthcare system "OBAMACARE" could be considered worse. Agreed. That's why they really didn't. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28797 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On October 01 2020 22:22 dUTtrOACh wrote: Meanwhile, people still call it Obamacare. How is that comparable to Trump forcing a message saying that the food box is especially from him, one month from an election? Did obama spend tax dollars to have the law nicknamed after himself? Did he ask for it to be named like that? No. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
By mid-2012, Obamacare had become the colloquial term used both by supporters and by opponents.[316] Obama endorsed the nickname, saying, "I have no problem with people saying Obama cares. I do care."[317] | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8080 Posts
On October 01 2020 22:39 dUTtrOACh wrote: According to what you posted, he kind of... did. On an election year. I assume that you see the difference between a colloquial term that ends up being used by everyone and the government writing "THANK DONALD TRUMP FOR FEEDING YOU" on emergency food stamps. So what are we talking about here? | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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