EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 97
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37025 Posts
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Sharkies
Hong Kong92 Posts
On April 02 2020 10:07 Sharkies wrote: If you think that China has a monopoly on a history of lying, then I can only say good luck to you and your world view. We can both accuse each other of bias, but it boils down to: - you think China is somehow worse than other countries (something which Western media tries very hard to push, except that Western media changes their target over the years (Koreans, Vietnamese, USSR, Middle East, now China) - I happen to think that no government is particularly reliable. The world is driven by interests, and at the political level it is always going to be Machiavellian (particularly between the most powerful nations). To think that one country is "worse" than any other is naive. You have linked a number of articles, but I invite you to go to Factcheck and you will see that the lies coming out of US politicians is hardly limited to "reporting lower numbers due to a lack of tests". I don't blame them for this, at least not any more than I blame any country/authority. The only thing I blame are people who are naive enough to believe one side or another. User was warned for this post. In the past I had generally respected the fact that despite being a website originally for video game news, this site generally had relatively neutral treatment of discussion. So it is quite disappointing to see that only one side of the discussion gets a warning. There's actually a lot more information to share because I see there is very little on here about how and why Asia were very successful at controlling the virus. Western governments have behind the scenes done a lot more to speak with and understand how policies were implemented, unlike a lot of the media and public discussion. From reactions from some people on this thread, I doubt my participation will be missed, but it's also a good reminder to myself to enjoy this site for what it is, which is first and foremost a website for video game competition news (at which it is very good). | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 02 2020 14:10 Sharkies wrote: In the past I had generally respected the fact that despite being a website originally for video game news, this site generally had relatively neutral treatment of discussion. So it is quite disappointing to see that only one side of the discussion gets a warning. There's actually a lot more information to share because I see there is very little on here about how and why Asia were very successful at controlling the virus. Western governments have behind the scenes done a lot more to speak with and understand how policies were implemented, unlike a lot of the media and public discussion. From reactions from some people on this thread, I doubt my participation will be missed, but it's also a good reminder to myself to enjoy this site for what it is, which is first and foremost a website for video game competition news (at which it is very good). You are mistaken, the poster that you were discussing with was warned for the same reason, as were a handful of others: https://tl.net/forum/general/556693-coronavirus-and-you?page=96#1903 The idea behind this thread is to avoid politics and focus on the virus itself. People stating their own experiences, what worked in a country etc... again without politics. Why people feel the need to keep bringing it back to China is beyond me since imo, we are not dealing with it properly at all in the west. Probably partially due to the media as well. Anyways, in Canada, we've broken 9k+ and we are still rising. Pictures have shown people walking side by side in parks last week which got our PM mad. I'd rather we took China's approach of a full lockdown than what's going on now because it's going to keep spreading. There's a lot of people not considering others at times and it's terrible. On that note, the US had the most deaths I've seen in a single day, 1k+ yesterday. If this continues for say, 2-3 months, that's easily 60-90k and that assumes it holds steady, but the question is how bad it'll get in 2 weeks time when more get infected and it keeps spreading. I can easily see millions dead... | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
However, he warned like half the preceding page, so it's not a one-side-only situation at all. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 02 2020 14:31 Belisarius wrote: I find the no politics rule extremely problematic for a topic like this. People's experiences are the product of political decisions and the crisis has massive political ramifications. It is an arbitrary and unclear line. However, he warned like half the preceding page, so it's not a one-side-only situation at all. On April 02 2020 14:33 BigFan wrote: Just look at the last page and how fast it degraded. Compare it to the first half of the thread (or more) where everyone was sharing their experiences. It should be obvious why that's a much better thread overall. I catch myself wondering about how stuff like + Show Spoiler + slip through the moderation cracks, and wondered if some unilateral praise for Trump's response with overall positive and presidential qualities shining through would earn the same leniency. But, I gotta say, as much as I have a firm stance on China, the previous page is an example of an uninformative back and forth on China that changes nobody's mind. So it's an annoying rule, and I myself had trouble disagreeing with Mohdoo's "shame them" post without delving into political ramifications, but I can see why it's there. With the aside done, the NYT is reporting that the US's CDC is weighing changing its guidance on wearing masks in order to reduce community spread. The eye is towards reducing transmission from nonsymptomatic infected individuals. NYT | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
A lot of the country's infections are among the healthcare workers of some specific cities, a couple of hospitals that became infections points either through managerial incompetence or lack of proper gear and supplies, more likely the combination of two. The worst case is from Suceava (which had a fairly well equipped and new hospital afaik), where lots of staff got infected, including the hospital director, and they were quarantined. The new management quit after a couple of days, along with many medics. The government is sending 3 army medics to take over. The whole situation created ripple effects, medics and staff quitting in hospitals where isnt any crisis yet. The goverment doesnt really know what to do, threatens action against quitting medics. A "sensible" idea was to mandate a 90 days notice before the resignations can take effect, although not sure what would the repercussions be if not respected. Sources in Hungarian/Romanian if someone's interested In the meanwhile, there's s news that possibly hundreds of medics moved to Austria via charter flights in the recent past, an article citing 231 Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff arriving in Austria on 31st of March. https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/austria-imports-workers-from-bulgaria-romania-to-plug-gaps-in-covid-19-care/ | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
 Called the doctor to reserve my bi-annual check up in good advance for when the doctor hopefully open up for non-acute patients again, I'm on meds that require frequent observation... I ended up in quarantine. Asked if I was overreacting by staying inside in full isolation since I've had a sore throat, mild cough and a very mild fever since yesterday morning, I appearently wasn't. Completely respect and understand his "order" but what a way to start the day. Was told that COVID-19 can appear as just a summer cold or mild influenza so anyone with just a few symptoms should consider themself as COVID-19 positive and self-quarantine asap. So if anyone here are having any of the symptoms REACT and if possible call your doctor for futher instructions, should be obvious but I had to mention it. With my luck it's probably just a cold and in 2 weeks time when I'm freeeeee again I'll get the real deal. Dont know if it's good or bad I have a "que sera, sera" view on life in the current time of history we're in.  | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
The info is coming directly from a (edit : two...) region president (more or less governor), complaining that while we have to pay shipments in 3 thirds, the US operatives are directly at the airport with cash, buying back shipments, depriving other countries. No comment. https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/en-cash-sur-le-tarmac-muselier-affirme-que-des-masques-pour-la-france-ont-ete-rachetes-par-les-americains-en-chine-20200402 Don't stop at the first mention of RT, what matters is what these governors answered, and they also told the same to 2 TV and radio stations, RMC and BFM TV. I'd still like some other kind of source, but you can't really get higher than these guys. The next level is the government and they are not the ones doing the buying for regions... On April 02 2020 09:51 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wS3syfx.png) Current sitrep. Notice something odd here? Italy has more confirmed cases than China by now. Seems legit?Not. Imo either China underreports cases/doesn't test or overreports deaths. Think of someone who got hospitalized for another disease and gets the virus in the hospital and dies, what do you report? Big difference between Germany and Italy in the amount of deaths, but also Austria. Either more testing in Germany, or crappy healthcare + lack of respirators in Italy. And only hospitalized patients get tested probably. Turkey also has decent stats after they implemented a less insane policy and only barred 60+ form leaving their homes. How to lower the CFR without treatment? Test more. Test everything. Suddenly you have a load of positives who maybe barely noticed. Data supports that and also supports that most of this is overblown. I still don't get the logic of locking down everyone. If you're 60+ or have respiratory problems from the get go, act accordingly. How can you say that everyone has to be shut in because 'think of the loved ones in that group'? I have relatives in that group, doesn't mean these draconian measures are sane or cause less damage to lives than the virus, but I know that they are being careful regardless of what the government prescribes. If you work with elderly patients, wear protective gear. Should be a given or the employer is stupid. If you are at risk, act responsibly. Sure, it isn't quite the same as not simply crossing a road blindfolded, you'd need to social distance, on your own, because it's your life at stake, and nobody can protect you from actions that can harm you that you chose to take, but that seems to be the expectation here. At some point you got to go out anyway to buy something, do you think that this lockdown eliminated the risk you would get the disease? Maybe someone, staff or customer, coughed around your groceries somewhere, you open a contaminated package, scratch your eye or poke your nose and there it is. But hey, everyone is in lockdown and that's supposed to keep you safe. Besides there's going to be people with you in the store. It just shocks me how most are willing to give away a big portion of control over their lives, and I doubt that they are going to be effective in making this disease go away for good in the long term like the WHO wants. Too many countries with different diligence in tackling it. What it will make go away for sure is the living standards you were used to. But at least we will have a virus to be mad at. + Show Spoiler + I don't even know why someone talks about culling and shit for a disease that really isn't that deadly. But I think overpopulation guys are full of shit. It entirely depends on the living standards and second, if you support such things, why don't you lead by example by jogging naked in the jungle of the Republic of the Congo. Same as warmongers on the internet, they should just get drafted the moment they hit post. Italy has more cases the China, legit ? Yes. China started heavy confinement on January 23rd, when there were barely more than 1000 reported cases, mostly centered in one region. They also locked down other regions while there were barely a few dozens of cases, so it didn't fully spread everywhere. Italy implemented them around March 12th, when they already had nearly 15000. The US hasn't yet, only sporadically. China took drastic confinement measures, infringing on liberties, by locking whole neighbourhoods in place and encouraging delation, publicly branding houses where there was a declared case. Italy did it somewhat seriously too, but a LOT later. Germany having very few deaths ? Because they are doing a LOT of testing. The method used for most testing is also originating from Germany, and their production lines are there too, allowing for a lot of local production, without the bottlenecks that other countries encountered. https://time.com/5812555/germany-coronavirus-deaths/ Currently France is doing barely 12k tests a day with a target of 30k/day mid-april, Italy around 30k, while germany was already around 160k a week 15 days ago. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid19-tests-per-million-people Italy has ramped up testing immensely since, but their hospitals were already overflowing, and the amount of ICU beds per capita can't be compared. https://www.statista.com/chart/21105/number-of-critical-care-beds-per-100000-inhabitants/ | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
BC is looking like there is some light at the end of the tunnel, with infections going slightly down at least. I'm hoping that in a month or two I can see my friends again. I suspect the US border will remain closed to non-business at least for the next 4-6 months though. Granted CAD might as well be pesos for how little it's worth now. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11519 Posts
As a comparison, those are more daily US deaths than due to the second world war (though that lasted a lot longer than corona hopefully will) | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17268 Posts
Man, big evil corps are at it again. I seriously want to survive this all just so I can see the aftermath of this pandemic and how it'll impact the world in the end. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On April 02 2020 22:36 Manit0u wrote: https://dot.la/bird-layoffs-meeting-story-2645612465.html Man, big evil corps are at it again. I seriously want to survive this all just so I can see the aftermath of this pandemic and how it'll impact the world in the end. You will and you wouldn't rather see transhuman revolution, more like second 30's (minus grand scale wars). | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
1. There's no tourism, so much fewer bookings 2. Many report earnings, and therefore aren't receiving employment insurance. My opinion is tough shit, if you're underwater, sell the property. If enough of them go under, and prices tank a reasonable amount, I'm in a decent position to actually buy a place which I've been hoping to be able to do for a few years now. Gonna play my tiny violin for them. Edit: article https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/04/airbnb-calls-on-government-to-bail-out-hosts-in-canada.html | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-coronavirus-equipment-masks-tests Meanwhile, in a spendid show of coordination : Last week, a Trump administration official working to secure much-needed protective gear for doctors and nurses in the United States had a startling encounter with counterparts in Thailand. The official asked the Thais for help—only to be informed by the puzzled voices on the other side of the line that a U.S. shipment of the same supplies, the second of two so far, was already on its way to Bangkok. :-) https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/pence-task-force-coronavirus-aid-157806 edit : 1M cases have been reached. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On April 02 2020 14:30 BigFan wrote: You are mistaken, the poster that you were discussing with was warned for the same reason, as were a handful of others: https://tl.net/forum/general/556693-coronavirus-and-you?page=96#1903 The idea behind this thread is to avoid politics and focus on the virus itself. People stating their own experiences, what worked in a country etc... again without politics. Why people feel the need to keep bringing it back to China is beyond me since imo, we are not dealing with it properly at all in the west. Probably partially due to the media as well. Anyways, in Canada, we've broken 9k+ and we are still rising. Pictures have shown people walking side by side in parks last week which got our PM mad. I'd rather we took China's approach of a full lockdown than what's going on now because it's going to keep spreading. There's a lot of people not considering others at times and it's terrible. On that note, the US had the most deaths I've seen in a single day, 1k+ yesterday. If this continues for say, 2-3 months, that's easily 60-90k and that assumes it holds steady, but the question is how bad it'll get in 2 weeks time when more get infected and it keeps spreading. I can easily see millions dead... I guess my issue here is that you're very pro lockdown, and say the west is handling it poorly. And then people end up getting warned who have different opinions from you. I think the US is handling it better than any other country. The flu kills 250k to 500k people per year, while COVID is serious, the reaction is disproportionate. We move on with our lives while making easy changes to be more careful. Closing the country until a vaccine is no bueno in my books. When someone is 85 and they die, even if they are found to have COVID in their system, it's highly likely something else killed them. If COVID ends up killing 3 million worldwide, that to me is a completely acceptable number for a shitty flu season, doesn't justify so many people not being able to make ends meet. When you do the analysis of overall benefit to people, I think the minor reaction results in much better results than such a big one. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
On April 02 2020 17:58 Nouar wrote: A little tidbit about the USA : they bought "under the counter" directly at the plane a shipment of masks that was ordered and paid for, due to fly to France, paying 3 times the price and redirecting the plane towards the USA. The info is coming directly from a (edit : two...) region president (more or less governor), complaining that while we have to pay shipments in 3 thirds, the US operatives are directly at the airport with cash, buying back shipments, depriving other countries. No comment. https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/en-cash-sur-le-tarmac-muselier-affirme-que-des-masques-pour-la-france-ont-ete-rachetes-par-les-americains-en-chine-20200402 Don't stop at the first mention of RT, what matters is what these governors answered, and they also told the same to 2 TV and radio stations, RMC and BFM TV. I'd still like some other kind of source, but you can't really get higher than these guys. The next level is the government and they are not the ones doing the buying for regions... Jean Rottner, governor of the region grand est, has said on twitter that the masks he ordered have arrived in France. So was it all a misunderstanding? | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
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