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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed?
Based on your response’s poorly conceived reference to annual mortalities and nod towards casual eugenics, yes, you should be ashamed.
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On April 02 2020 04:40 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? Based on your response’s poorly conceived reference to annual mortalities and nod towards casual eugenics, yes, you should be ashamed.
Okay, just checking.
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No friends/family with respiratory problems? No loved ones over the age of 65?
I’m worried for all of the above. Maybe it hasn’t hit you yet
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On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed?
The hospitalization figures are a lot more startling to me than the death numbers. 2% death rate is a little misleading. It's closer to a 20% hospitalization rate in my state - meaning that it's extremely serious for a very large portion of people that get it. Very few people wind up hospitalized for the flu, comparatively.
Yes, the illness is probably a LOT more widely spread than the tests indicate, but it's clearly serious for anyone.
This isn't a "you're fine if you're under 50" illness. Even those younger are still very likely to wind up hospitalized and with permanently damaged lungs. It's more of a luck thing, we don't know why some people are asymptomatic and others are heavily affected.
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Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling.
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Also there will be economic repercussions. That’s the one I’m most worried about. Personally I plan to buy property when the recession hits. But I know overall it won’t be as fruitful for the majority of others. We can’t predict what will happen in the coming months of this “economic fallout”. I could be overreacting, I hope so.
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Indeed, the collateral consequences of the disease’s spread will affect folks from all walks of life. But even if foreseeable outcomes aligned with some measure of deservedness, we should collectively decline to associate stupidity, impulsivity, or any other ostensibly negative personal tendency with normative sentiments of who ought live or die. The path those sentiments walk on leads places we know are very bad.
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On April 02 2020 04:42 Emnjay808 wrote:
No friends/family with respiratory problems? No loved ones over the age of 65?
I’m worried for all of the above. Maybe it hasn’t hit you yet
None that I interact with since quarantine has begun for myself and those folks. Yes, it's worrisome to think of what could happen to my loved ones, but there isn't really much I can do by pondering the worst all day. It's not like I have been blowing this off as if it's fake or won't effect anyone I know; I'm still following basic procedures to keep people around me safe.
On April 02 2020 04:42 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? The hospitalization figures are a lot more startling to me than the death numbers. 2% death rate is a little misleading. It's closer to a 20% hospitalization rate in my state - meaning that it's extremely serious for a very large portion of people that get it. Very few people wind up hospitalized for the flu, comparatively. Yes, the illness is probably a LOT more widely spread than the tests indicate, but it's clearly serious for anyone. This isn't a "you're fine if you're under 50" illness. Even those younger are still very likely to wind up hospitalized and with permanently damaged lungs. It's more of a luck thing, we don't know why some people are asymptomatic and others are heavily affected.
This makes sense, I seem be ignorant to the severity of simply having it.
On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling.
I certainly used the wrong word here, especially since this isn't really targeting any specific group. Sorry for incorrect vocabulary.
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On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling.
When I was speaking to being unsettled, this is the kind of thing I was thinking of. I'd have to know what word/ing they'd replace it with before letting it go myself.
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On April 02 2020 05:00 NrG.Bamboo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:42 Emnjay808 wrote:
No friends/family with respiratory problems? No loved ones over the age of 65?
I’m worried for all of the above. Maybe it hasn’t hit you yet None that I interact with since quarantine has begun for myself and those folks. Yes, it's worrisome to think of what could happen to my loved ones, but there isn't really much I can do by pondering the worst all day. It's not like I have been blowing this off as if it's fake or won't effect anyone I know; I'm still following basic procedures to keep people around me safe. Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:42 Nevuk wrote:On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? The hospitalization figures are a lot more startling to me than the death numbers. 2% death rate is a little misleading. It's closer to a 20% hospitalization rate in my state - meaning that it's extremely serious for a very large portion of people that get it. Very few people wind up hospitalized for the flu, comparatively. Yes, the illness is probably a LOT more widely spread than the tests indicate, but it's clearly serious for anyone. This isn't a "you're fine if you're under 50" illness. Even those younger are still very likely to wind up hospitalized and with permanently damaged lungs. It's more of a luck thing, we don't know why some people are asymptomatic and others are heavily affected. This makes sense, I seem be ignorant to the severity of simply having it. Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling. I certainly used the wrong word here, especially since this isn't really targeting any specific group. Sorry for incorrect vocabulary.
Fair enough, I apologize for reacting so harshly. The reason I would actively refrain from using that kind of language is that it is very popular with groups that are seizing on the ‘rona as a casus belli for all sorts of awful fashy bullshit. We’re collectively going to have to fight those ideas again, and soon I would guess.
On April 02 2020 05:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling. When I was speaking to being unsettled, this is the kind of thing I was thinking of.
Yes, I’m seeing it more and more and it is very concerning.
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On April 02 2020 04:42 NrG.Bamboo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:40 farvacola wrote:On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? Based on your response’s poorly conceived reference to annual mortalities and nod towards casual eugenics, yes, you should be ashamed. Okay, just checking.
Depending on whether the world is the world of man or nature is a huge factor on whether I'd be inclined to agree with parts of your post.
The casual reference to people dying of so easily treatable illnesses was well placed. Some would say too soon but that's often because they're not agreeing with your prioritization these days. Though to be honest in your post this doesn't quite come about as an impetus to better the world.
Thus I agree with farv
I was hoping it would not hit Germany as hard until early march though.
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Northern Ireland25435 Posts
Jesus I’ve not really been on the non-TL internet so much lately but apparently loads of people think the Chinese are covering up some gigantic death toll? :S
Had my first encounters with such folks today, rather strange. Merely pointed out that China did indisputably lock Wuhan down and send in thousands of medical personnel, whereas the US is doing sweet fuck all in areas, so if you believe huge swathes of Chinese have died (some of these people literally believe its in the millions), then what the fuck is going to happen in the States down the line?
That aside in general this crisis really does expose the dangers of a fragmented media world, so much outright dangerous misinformation has done the rounds via ‘alternative media’.
Really I’ve mostly been just following this thread outside of locality specific stuff so thanks to the mods and contributors for keeping this little corner of the internet pretty damn high quality.
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On April 02 2020 05:00 NrG.Bamboo wrote:
About the numbers, there is also an unfair part about comparing the current numbers of covid-19's deaths to the previous year about the flu. To check out the number of deaths about a disease for a year, usually you have to wait for a year to be over, and then you extrapolate the numbers from the abnormally high death rate compared to other years. It's a little bit more complicated than that obviously.
To give you an idea, about France's flu last year, we had less than 100 deaths related to it that ended up in hospitalization. With the extrapolation from the abnormal death rate number, it's assumed we had around 8.000 deaths related to the flu, in the end - which was a bad year. That makes it 80 times the initial number.
As of now, for most of the mortality rate about the covid-19, we are still mostly counting the hospitalization related numbers, and they are way higher than the flu ones. I don't think we'll get an increase by 80 times like the flu (since a looot of people go through the hospitalization process), but we will have to wait for a year to have an idea on how deadly it really was overall.
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On April 02 2020 05:03 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 05:00 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 02 2020 04:42 Emnjay808 wrote:
No friends/family with respiratory problems? No loved ones over the age of 65?
I’m worried for all of the above. Maybe it hasn’t hit you yet None that I interact with since quarantine has begun for myself and those folks. Yes, it's worrisome to think of what could happen to my loved ones, but there isn't really much I can do by pondering the worst all day. It's not like I have been blowing this off as if it's fake or won't effect anyone I know; I'm still following basic procedures to keep people around me safe. On April 02 2020 04:42 Nevuk wrote:On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? The hospitalization figures are a lot more startling to me than the death numbers. 2% death rate is a little misleading. It's closer to a 20% hospitalization rate in my state - meaning that it's extremely serious for a very large portion of people that get it. Very few people wind up hospitalized for the flu, comparatively. Yes, the illness is probably a LOT more widely spread than the tests indicate, but it's clearly serious for anyone. This isn't a "you're fine if you're under 50" illness. Even those younger are still very likely to wind up hospitalized and with permanently damaged lungs. It's more of a luck thing, we don't know why some people are asymptomatic and others are heavily affected. This makes sense, I seem be ignorant to the severity of simply having it. On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling. I certainly used the wrong word here, especially since this isn't really targeting any specific group. Sorry for incorrect vocabulary. Fair enough, I apologize for reacting so harshly. The reason I would actively refrain from using that kind of language is that it is very popular with groups that are seizing on the ‘rona as a casus belli for all sorts of awful fashy bullshit. We’re collectively going to have to fight those ideas again, and soon I would guess.
No problem. I was aware that my post probably wouldn't be showered with praise. Just on some personal background: I'm pretty unplugged (I don't use any social media/watch news at all) so I really don't have an idea of what language certain people are currently attaching to their ideas.
I certainly didn't mean to bring this into the realm of eugenics (though that was my fault lol) but rather that overpopulation is the root cause of a lot of current suffering, as well as what I believe to be a non-sustainable future. Taking the morality away and subtracting x amount of people indiscriminately feels like a small push toward a world where more people can be taken care of, rather than exist.
On April 02 2020 05:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:45 farvacola wrote:
Just in case anyone forgot or is unaware, referring to human population dynamics using words like “cull” is a bad thing. Humanity is not a herd for the culling. When I was speaking to being unsettled, this is the kind of thing I was thinking of. I'd have to know what word/ing they'd replace it with before letting it go myself.
May I ask what this is about?
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On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed?
There isn’t a reason to be ashamed per se. Socio-economic factors, upbringing, environment, education, genetics as well as many other variables can lead to a limited cognitive capacity and usually the person affected has never had any control over most variables and thus cannot be faulted for the outcome. However, you are probably well advised to refrain from flaunting your inability to understand logical connections and your unwillingness to gain an understanding on the topic at hand especially given the widespread availability of material to help you do so. Generally, if you are overwhelmed by the complexity of a given subject and do not want to spend the necessary amount of time to be able to contribute a thought out comment, it is probably best to not comment at all – maybe, keeping this millennia old wisdom can help you grasp the concept:
![[image loading]](https://scodpub.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/socratic-wisdom-knowledge-diagram.jpg?w=450)
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On April 02 2020 05:36 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 04:36 NrG.Bamboo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On April 01 2020 07:29 Danglars wrote:On April 01 2020 07:16 Mohdoo wrote:
Don't forget, everyone you guys know who said Corona is "overblown". Shame them, remind them they were wrong. I mean that's a terrific sliding scale of when and how. The World Health Organization was saying that in January. De Blasio as late as March. Northam even later. And some dumb college kids might've not taken it seriously and think they have nothing to lose. I also think this world has enough shaming in it, no? Anyone who said if wasn't a huge deal during February is a complete moron. We had all the necessary data. I guess that depends on what you consider to be a huge deal. Although it's only 3 months into the new year, the death count is still around 10x less than that of the average flu season worldwide. Hell, diarrhea takes out about half a million per year, it just doesn't happen to people that look like you. I will grant that it's unfortunate for anyone with a medical problem to seek attention in such a chaotic time and with hospitals at capacity; I'm sure that will cause plenty of issues for people unrelated to this virus. Though my personal feelings on the matter are that I thought this would be bigger than it currently is, and I am also of the opinion that culling the population isn't the worst thing for the world right now. The biggest impact this has had on me is that I can't get a haircut. Am I one of these people that should be shamed? There isn’t a reason to be ashamed per se. Socio-economic factors, upbringing, environment, education, genetics as well as many other variables can lead to a limited cognitive capacity and usually the person affected has never had any control over most variables and thus cannot be faulted for the outcome. However, you are probably well advised to refrain from flaunting your inability to understand logical connections and your unwillingness to gain an understanding on the topic at hand especially given the widespread availability of material to help you do so. Generally, if you are overwhelmed by the complexity of a given subject and do not want to spend the necessary amount of time to be able to contribute a thought out comment, it is probably best to not comment at all – maybe, keeping this millennia old wisdom can help you grasp the concept:
Nice one.
Okay, I'll leave your thread alone.
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Fun fact about how Poland is possibly skewing the numbers. We usually had ~200 deaths/year due to pulmonary diseases. We're at >600 right now in 2k20 and they're classifying them all as pulmonary diseases, without showing which are ncov (they might've labeled a few of them as that). So, either they're purposefully hiding the numbers or they're not testing the deceased, which is also bad.
Also, our dumbfuck government is hell bent on holding the elections soon...
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On April 02 2020 06:04 Manit0u wrote:
Fun fact about how Poland is possibly skewing the numbers. We usually had ~200 deaths/year due to pulmonary diseases. We're at >600 right now in 2k20 and they're classifying them all as pulmonary diseases, without showing which are ncov (they might've labeled a few of them as that). So, either they're purposefully hiding the numbers or they're not testing the deceased, which is also bad.
Also, our dumbfuck government is hell bent on holding the elections soon...
If you think that's bad, imagine if this hasn't blown over in the states where they have 4+ hour long lines to vote. Imagine how many kilometers you need to walk to reach the end of the line if you need to maintain socially appropriate distance between each voter.
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EPT
