Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.
It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.
Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.
This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.
Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
I get it as a take on sarcasm but can you explain how it benefits trump to somehow justify calling it "kung flu" or "china virus"? I'm also not going to assume that you believe that jumping to conclusions to the origin of the virus is the same thing as somehow parallel to the pursuit of truth so I would like some clarification on that. Just beacuse you think something is absurd doesn't make it absurd you've got to use your words to explain how it is BJ.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
What was discarded as a conspiracy theory was that the virus was a man-made bioweapon.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
I get it as a take on sarcasm but can you explain how it benefits trump to somehow justify calling it "kung flu" or "china virus"? I'm also not going to assume that you believe that jumping to conclusions to the origin of the virus is the same thing as somehow parallel to the pursuit of truth so I would like some clarification on that. Just beacuse you think something is absurd doesn't make it absurd you've got to use your words to explain how it is BJ.
If you're keen on labeling people racists and xenophobes for supporting the lab leak hypothesis then it's actually a huge spoiler if there is some merit to the lab leak hypothesis. I think that's a fairly simple conclusion. Wouldn't you agree that whether or not the lab leak hypothesis is true is completely inconsequential from whether or not it may lead to anti-Asian hate crimes? Are you suggesting that it's better to lie or not pursue if it may cause strife for some?
Maybe ask then-President of CNN Jeff Zucker who reportedly ordered his employees not to pursue the Lab Leak theory because he considered it a Trump talking point. Link
Sadly too many people are very content with the media just being a mouthpiece for the government as opposed to investigating the truth wherever it leads.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
I get it as a take on sarcasm but can you explain how it benefits trump to somehow justify calling it "kung flu" or "china virus"? I'm also not going to assume that you believe that jumping to conclusions to the origin of the virus is the same thing as somehow parallel to the pursuit of truth so I would like some clarification on that. Just beacuse you think something is absurd doesn't make it absurd you've got to use your words to explain how it is BJ.
If you're keen on labeling people racists and xenophobes for supporting the lab leak hypothesis then it's actually a huge spoiler if there is some merit to the lab leak hypothesis. I think that's a fairly simple conclusion. Wouldn't you agree that whether or not the lab leak hypothesis is true is completely inconsequential from whether or not it may lead to anti-Asian hate crimes? Are you suggesting that it's better to lie or not pursue if it may cause strife for some?
Maybe ask then-President of CNN Jeff Zucker who reportedly ordered his employees not to pursue the Lab Leak theory because he considered it a Trump talking point. Link
Sadly too many people are very content with the media just being a mouthpiece for the government as opposed to investigating the truth wherever it leads.
I get its hard for you to understand the people you're arguing with but the lab leak theory ending up being true isn't a spoiler for me calling being racist and xenophobic. I do agree but I don't think its for the same reasons as you. The problem is aserting it as fact in the moment before you persue the truth. The problem isn't weather its true or not the problem is how the theory of it is used as evidence for anti asian hate crimes. The problem is calling the thing thats killing your family members "Kung flu" or the "china virus" very clearly is an attempt to direct blame for covid on china and by relation chinese people. You can't expect bigots and racists to tell different asians apart so it does influence hate crimes that happened. Are you suggesting that its better to assume the truth without evidence in public regardless of "strife" it will cause?
It became a Trump talking point to talk about the theory beacuse he was trying to shift blame away from him during an election by blaming china. You can't hop onto any conspiracy theory at hand and then wash yourself of any responsibilities for what you say in public. You're right its sad that people are content with the media being the mouthpiece for the government, its a problem for you that Trump was the government at the time.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
What was discarded as a conspiracy theory was that the virus was a man-made bioweapon.
This is 100% inaccurate. The man-made bioweapon was a subset of the larger lab leak hypothesis but both were rejected outright. You can google many examples of media fact checkers having to update their declarations that a lab-leak origin was outright False. For example this one from Politifact where they've simply decided to purge it from its database:
Editor’s note, May 17, 2021: When this fact-check was first published in September 2020, PolitiFact’s sources included researchers who asserted the SARS-CoV-2 virus could not have been manipulated. That assertion is now more widely disputed. For that reason, we are removing this fact-check from our database pending a more thorough review. Currently, we consider the claim to be unsupported by evidence and in dispute. The original fact-check in its entirety is preserved below for transparency and archival purposes. Read our May 2021 report for more on the origins of the virus that causes COVID-19.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
I get it as a take on sarcasm but can you explain how it benefits trump to somehow justify calling it "kung flu" or "china virus"? I'm also not going to assume that you believe that jumping to conclusions to the origin of the virus is the same thing as somehow parallel to the pursuit of truth so I would like some clarification on that. Just beacuse you think something is absurd doesn't make it absurd you've got to use your words to explain how it is BJ.
If you're keen on labeling people racists and xenophobes for supporting the lab leak hypothesis then it's actually a huge spoiler if there is some merit to the lab leak hypothesis. I think that's a fairly simple conclusion. Wouldn't you agree that whether or not the lab leak hypothesis is true is completely inconsequential from whether or not it may lead to anti-Asian hate crimes? Are you suggesting that it's better to lie or not pursue if it may cause strife for some?
Maybe ask then-President of CNN Jeff Zucker who reportedly ordered his employees not to pursue the Lab Leak theory because he considered it a Trump talking point. Link
Sadly too many people are very content with the media just being a mouthpiece for the government as opposed to investigating the truth wherever it leads.
I get its hard for you to understand the people you're arguing with but the lab leak theory ending up being true isn't a spoiler for me calling being racist and xenophobic. I do agree but I don't think its for the same reasons as you. The problem is aserting it as fact in the moment before you persue the truth. The problem isn't weather its true or not the problem is how the theory of it is used as evidence for anti asian hate crimes. The problem is calling the thing thats killing your family members "Kung flu" or the "china virus" very clearly is an attempt to direct blame for covid on china and by relation chinese people. You can't expect bigots and racists to tell different asians apart so it does influence hate crimes that happened. Are you suggesting that its better to assume the truth without evidence in public regardless of "strife" it will cause?
It became a Trump talking point to talk about the theory beacuse he was trying to shift blame away from him during an election by blaming china. You can't hop onto any conspiracy theory at hand and then wash yourself of any responsibilities for what you say in public. You're right its sad that people are content with the media being the mouthpiece for the government, its a problem for you that Trump was the government at the time.
You're right that I often can't understand what you're saying.
I'm concerned that the media and social media can band together to freeze out a potentially true story in order to conform to narratives set forth by the government. You seem more concerned that Trump wanted to call COVID the china virus.
Are you suggesting that its better to assume the truth without evidence in public regardless of "strife" it will cause?
You actually don't have to choose between censoring something and assuming something is true. In fact you can believe something is not true and still not censor it.
The first 60 seconds of this clip is Bill Maher hilariously illustrating how the "china virus" outrage is a made up issue for people like you to blog about. If COVID started in Milan we'd be calling it the Milan virus and nobody would be outraged on behalf of the Italians.
Obviously it was a lab leak from the Wuhan institute of virology.Wuhan was the first BSL-4 level biolab in China, designed for investigating the most dangerous pathogens on earth.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
It was branded that beacuse it was the cause of a massive uptick in anti asian hate crimes. It was branded that because right wing conspiracy theorists blamed china and asian people as a whole for causing covid. It caused you to get banned beacuse the people who were that interested in the lab leak theory were the types that you would ban anyway so you banned them anyway.
Yep. I think when people unabashedly admit to things like these we should believe them. The lab leak hypothesis can lead to Asian hate crimes therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of it might benefit Trump therefore it should be rejected. The pursuit of truth is just an irrelevant afterthought that we need not concern ourselves with. I'm never not amazed that people will say this out loud with no sense of shame.
Edit: I guess I should clarify that the 3 sentences in the middle of my paragraph are an attempt to point out the absurdity of that position and are meant to be ready sarcastically and not literally.
I get it as a take on sarcasm but can you explain how it benefits trump to somehow justify calling it "kung flu" or "china virus"? I'm also not going to assume that you believe that jumping to conclusions to the origin of the virus is the same thing as somehow parallel to the pursuit of truth so I would like some clarification on that. Just beacuse you think something is absurd doesn't make it absurd you've got to use your words to explain how it is BJ.
If you're keen on labeling people racists and xenophobes for supporting the lab leak hypothesis then it's actually a huge spoiler if there is some merit to the lab leak hypothesis. I think that's a fairly simple conclusion. Wouldn't you agree that whether or not the lab leak hypothesis is true is completely inconsequential from whether or not it may lead to anti-Asian hate crimes? Are you suggesting that it's better to lie or not pursue if it may cause strife for some?
Maybe ask then-President of CNN Jeff Zucker who reportedly ordered his employees not to pursue the Lab Leak theory because he considered it a Trump talking point. Link
Sadly too many people are very content with the media just being a mouthpiece for the government as opposed to investigating the truth wherever it leads.
I get its hard for you to understand the people you're arguing with but the lab leak theory ending up being true isn't a spoiler for me calling being racist and xenophobic. I do agree but I don't think its for the same reasons as you. The problem is aserting it as fact in the moment before you persue the truth. The problem isn't weather its true or not the problem is how the theory of it is used as evidence for anti asian hate crimes. The problem is calling the thing thats killing your family members "Kung flu" or the "china virus" very clearly is an attempt to direct blame for covid on china and by relation chinese people. You can't expect bigots and racists to tell different asians apart so it does influence hate crimes that happened. Are you suggesting that its better to assume the truth without evidence in public regardless of "strife" it will cause?
It became a Trump talking point to talk about the theory beacuse he was trying to shift blame away from him during an election by blaming china. You can't hop onto any conspiracy theory at hand and then wash yourself of any responsibilities for what you say in public. You're right its sad that people are content with the media being the mouthpiece for the government, its a problem for you that Trump was the government at the time.
You're right that I often can't understand what you're saying.
I'm concerned that the media and social media can band together to freeze out a potentially true story in order to conform to narratives set forth by the government. You seem more concerned that Trump wanted to call COVID the china virus.
Are you suggesting that its better to assume the truth without evidence in public regardless of "strife" it will cause?
You actually don't have to choose between censoring something and assuming something is true. In fact you can believe something is not true and still not censor it.
The first 60 seconds of this clip is Bill Maher hilariously illustrating how the "china virus" outrage is a made up issue for people like you to blog about. If COVID started in Milan we'd be calling it the Milan virus and nobody would be outraged on behalf of the Italians.
That's not what any of this was for and I keep telling you that it's not what's going on. I'm glad you found out again that trump was in charge during covid and have dropped the government from your conspiracy. You are suppose to try and understand the other person is saying that called good faith.
You are acting like there are no consequences and no effects from assigning blame on asians and that saying something like the china virus wouldn't make anyone think Chinese people are responsible for it. Trump again also said kung flu and other clearly race based assignments for the virus.
This isn't about censoring the truth and even you have to admit that we didn't have any real way to know the truth of the origin of the virus when this happened.
People would be outraged on behalf of Italian people of there was a massive rash of anti Italian hate crimes as a result of the president calling it pasta flu and otherwise blaming Italians for the virus.
I still don't know what your point is. We were talking about the suppression of the lab leak hypothesis. How does Trump calling COVID the Kung Flu tie into that? I understand that finding any tangent to try to pivot to talking about MAGA racism is on brand for you but what precisely does that have to do with the suppression of the lab leak hypothesis?
This isn't about censoring the truth and even you have to admit that we didn't have any real way to know the truth of the origin of the virus when this happened.
Yes. It. Is. The entire point is that a potentially true story was censored from our public discourse. Not only do you and others not seem to care but you're actively making excuses for it.
It wasn't just bio-weapons that was treated as a conspiracy theory. It was the Wuhan lab at all that was treated as such: Jon Stewart Faces Online Pushback After Going ALl in On Covi-19 Lab Leak Theory I remember it was quite a big deal that Jon Stewart was actually talking about it as the most plausible explanation on television. But you had people like neurophysiolgist Sanford saying
"I saw the clip and am concerned to see Stewart promoting the conspiracy... even if it's just for laughs."
At no point did Jon Stewart bring up the weapons idea. What she was reacting to was Stewart promoting the Wuhan Lab Leak theory- at all.
You also had Jon Stewart unsure on why the rival theories had become politicized: Jon Stewart THR Cover Story Interview When asked whether Colbert was a little nervous on Stewart's Wuhan bit (there was rampant speculation on Colbert's apparent reaction).
I don’t think he was nervous. It’s not like he doesn’t know what I’m going to say. Listen, how it got to be that if it was a scientific accident, it’s conservative, and if it came from a wet market, it’s liberal, I don’t know — I’m just not sure how that got politicized. But it was an inelegant way to get to a bit that I’ve done for years, which is our good-intentioned brilliance will more than likely be our demise. The bit is about the last words that man ever utters, which are, “Hey, it worked.” I guess I was a little surprised at the pushback.
Emphasis mine.
And censored kinda like it kept getting talked about all over the place including here.
You understand that there is a world of a difference between talking about competing theories and dismissing an entire theory as though if you considered Lab Leak, you were some kind of Flat Earther... but of course you aren't that stupid to be a Flat Earther, so there must be some nefarious reason for holding the Lab Leak Theory... do you have some racial animus against the Chinese, perhaps? No, conversations were not shut down in the sense that you were zapped for mentioning 'Lab Leak' or imprisoned or whatever. But people weren't just 'having conversations' either. The over-arching message for a while was you were a crazy person or worse to consider Lab Leak—only one of those pretentious Dark Web guys would buy into a Lab Leak.
On June 17 2023 11:10 JimmiC wrote: Why is it a major problem? Is it worse or better than all the garbage that was stated as fact, not true by those presenting and profiting off of it? We'd all like perfection but it is not going to happen. There was no evil, it was just timing and a mistake. Get over it. This poor conservative thing is getting so tired, you guys do not have it remotely bad, it is such spoiled whiney kid attitude. by people who claim and pretend to be macho.
And censored kinda like it kept getting talked about all over the place including here.
Why is it a problem that a small group of people can dictate a narrative to us and ensure widespread consent by demonizing and ostracizing dissenters? Get over it, comrade! Talk about real issues like Trumps dog whistles!
On June 17 2023 11:10 JimmiC wrote: Why is it a major problem? Is it worse or better than all the garbage that was stated as fact, not true by those presenting and profiting off of it? We'd all like perfection but it is not going to happen. There was no evil, it was just timing and a mistake. Get over it. This poor conservative thing is getting so tired, you guys do not have it remotely bad, it is such spoiled whiney kid attitude. by people who claim and pretend to be macho.
And censored kinda like it kept getting talked about all over the place including here.
Why is it a problem that a small group of people can dictate a narrative to us and ensure widespread consent by demonizing and ostracizing dissenters? Get over it, comrade! Talk about real issues like Trumps dog whistles!
No good answer just sarcasm and earlier personal attacks? Makes sense given the world view and character.
OMG someone tried to control the narrative during a crisis and was not right about everything and then correct later. Those monsters!
See the problem is you think the issue is that they happened to be wrong on this one when you should see the issue as that it was done in the first place. There’s nothing more to say. It’s a difference of opinion. You want your propaganda delivered from the top down so you can regurgitate to the rest of us heretics and get a pat on the back for your virtue and the rest of us want to freely discuss ideas on our own without fear of reprisal. We want different things in life. That’s okay.
OMG someone tried to control the narrative during a crisis and was not right about everything and then correct later. Those monsters!
Or, you know, we could've been more agnostic towards two reasonably plausible explanations while we investigate which one actually accounts for all the evidence. There's no need to play shame games for considering the alternative plausible explanation, even in a crisis. The control the narrative that you seem so dismissive as to its impact does the very opposite of bringing people together in the crisis. It is also not terribly helpful for convincing people on the fence with any of your other government policies. I think this method is bad in principle, but even pragmatically, this is a terrible approach if you are hoping for public buy in.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
What was discarded as a conspiracy theory was that the virus was a man-made bioweapon.
This is 100% inaccurate. The man-made bioweapon was a subset of the larger lab leak hypothesis but both were rejected outright. You can google many examples of media fact checkers having to update their declarations that a lab-leak origin was outright False. For example this one from Politifact where they've simply decided to purge it from its database:
Editor’s note, May 17, 2021: When this fact-check was first published in September 2020, PolitiFact’s sources included researchers who asserted the SARS-CoV-2 virus could not have been manipulated. That assertion is now more widely disputed. For that reason, we are removing this fact-check from our database pending a more thorough review. Currently, we consider the claim to be unsupported by evidence and in dispute. The original fact-check in its entirety is preserved below for transparency and archival purposes. Read our May 2021 report for more on the origins of the virus that causes COVID-19.
Except neither was rejected outright. The "man-made bioweapon" hypothesis was assessed by experts, who found no signs of human manipulation and rejected it. The lab-leak hypothesis as such was not rejected. It was simply found less plausible at the time.
It's the same with the vaccine passports. In Europe, they were discussed as a possible solution from the very beginning of the lockdowns. After they were introduced, all those conspiracy nuts started to gaslight people how the politicians promised to never introduce such measures.
edit: Perhaps this was handled differently in the US/Canada and Europe. I don't consume that much American media. Maybe that's the reason for widely different perceptions.
Discussion appears on whether the origin is natural or lab leak
"They" we believe it is natural (not all did but "they" said it as "they" thought it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later, they would need Chinas help both in the current crisis and in figuring out the origin). As of now we are going to put all our efforts into figuring out how to stop this, once it is known we will circle back.
"Normals" Makes sense.
"Nuts" depending on the exact time some outrage about something losing freedom, world control, new world order, blah blah.
I don't understand. It was right to treat the lab leak hypothesis as a right-wing conspiracy theory because it was "better to have a agreed position and China was not helping". Is that really what you mean? Why would it be better to have an "agreed position" on the issue dictated by the authorities (or the media?) than letting people discuss the issue freely?
What people were not allowed to discuss it freely?
I did not say they were right, I was stating what happened. There was emails released about it a long ass time ago.
Anyone who thinks no mistakes were made by authorities would be almost as stupid as the "nuts". Of course there was tons of mistakes made, we had not had a pandemic in 100 years and basically everything has changed since then.
Look, the lab leak hypothesis was wrongfully branded as a right wing conspiracy for a very long time (you'd get banned from social media for speculating about it and in general treated as a lunatic for talking about it etc.). You now defend that knee-jerk reaction from the media because "it was better to have a agreed position and China was not helping so it was better to go this route and sort it out later". That sounds wild to me. But correct me if I'm misrepresenting your position, because I'm not sure I get your point.
What was discarded as a conspiracy theory was that the virus was a man-made bioweapon.
This is 100% inaccurate. The man-made bioweapon was a subset of the larger lab leak hypothesis but both were rejected outright. You can google many examples of media fact checkers having to update their declarations that a lab-leak origin was outright False. For example this one from Politifact where they've simply decided to purge it from its database:
Editor’s note, May 17, 2021: When this fact-check was first published in September 2020, PolitiFact’s sources included researchers who asserted the SARS-CoV-2 virus could not have been manipulated. That assertion is now more widely disputed. For that reason, we are removing this fact-check from our database pending a more thorough review. Currently, we consider the claim to be unsupported by evidence and in dispute. The original fact-check in its entirety is preserved below for transparency and archival purposes. Read our May 2021 report for more on the origins of the virus that causes COVID-19.
Except neither was rejected outright. The "man-made bioweapon" hypothesis was assessed by experts, who found no signs of human manipulation and rejected it. The lab-leak hypothesis as such was not rejected. It was simply found less plausible at the time.
It's the same with the vaccine passports. In Europe, they were discussed as a possible solution from the very beginning of the lockdowns. After they were introduced, all those conspiracy nuts started to gaslight people how the politicians promised to never introduce such measures.
edit: Perhaps this was handled differently in the US/Canada and Europe. I don't consume that much American media. Maybe that's the reason for widely different perceptions.
Again, a complete attempted rewrite of history. The idea that only the "bioweapon" theory was suppressed, and not lab leak in general, is an idea as far as I can tell completely invented by you.
NYPost citing examples of articles suppressed by facebook - please point out where bioweapons are mentioned. The theory proposed was that it "may have leaked from the lab"
Jon Stewart explaining about the swift backlash he received for talking about lab leak - please explain where he mentions bioweapons
EPT
