EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 604
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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lestye
United States4186 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/24/world/asia/covid-beijing-shanghai.html Get ready for more supply chain shortages and inflation I guess. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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smille
30 Posts
On April 25 2022 16:07 Elroi wrote: When I hear that people are still locked in their homes because of Corona I'm so happy that I live in a country where the officials had the guts to trust their experts on public health instead of jumping on the panic bandwagon and destroy their own country, like basically the rest of the world. That's brave; they would have been crucified if it didn't work. But now we have had basically a completely open society during the whole pandemic and the result is 3,9% increase in mortality. 4th lowest in Europe and more or less the same as a bad flu season. Being brave and risking to do something stupid go hand in hand. I guess the course you are referring to was the actions Sweden took right at the beginning of Corona? So, barely any restrictions and what not? I have to admit, I don’t recall how the scientific consensus on Corona and measures against it evolved over time. What I remember is that nothing felt scientifically proven at the time. Furthermore, we had dire examples on what could happen from looking at Italy and China. I’m happy for you to live in a well situated country, but I hesitate to glorify the bravery and the role knowledge and expertise played in their decision-making. I would rather describe it as careless and lucky. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21952 Posts
This is not the story of the brave Swedes defying Covid. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220114-2 Go to the graph at the bottom and put in Sweden, Finland and Norway. You can clearly see the Covid death spikes in April and December 2020 while Finland and Norway, who did take measures, barely move. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On April 25 2022 21:53 Gorsameth wrote: Sweden, while obviously not doing remotely as bad as the actual bad cases, did considerably worse then its neighbours Finland and Norway. This is not the story of the brave Swedes defying Covid. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220114-2 Go to the graph at the bottom and put in Sweden, Finland and Norway. You can clearly see the Covid death spikes in April and December 2020 while Finland and Norway, who did take measures, barely move. Sure Sweden had higher mortality a couple of months, but if you look at the entire period of the pandemic, from March 2020 to the end of 2021, Sweden has lower excess mortality than Finland, third lowest in Europe after Norway and Iceland. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slydie
1927 Posts
On April 25 2022 22:50 JimmiC wrote: But it really was not that dramatically different what they did and it had more or less the same (or worse) impact on their economy. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1201536/gdp-rate-forecasts-in-the-nordics/ And they had a well trusted health authority, high vaccination rates, did put in some measures and so on. People who think they did nothing or that there approach would have worked in say the US are not paying attention. The Swedish people also trusted their health authority much less after than before the pandemic so it is not like all their people think they nailed it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic The economy is barely an argument as every country is entangled. The valuable border trade with Norway completely stopped, for example, and Swedish measures could do nothing to stop that. Likewise, logistical problems with car parts and other industries have nothing to do with national COVID measures. The Swedes severely screwed up initially with their residents for the elderly, especially compared to neighbour countries. I doubt not closing schools, restaurants and "non essential" stores had the dramatic impact so many wants it to have. Don't underestimate the desire to rationalize sacrifices and cautiousness. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18114 Posts
On April 29 2022 04:55 JimmiC wrote: Sounds like you forget Spain, Italy and NewYork. Delaying gives time for proper treatment. I wonder what the dealth tolls would have been if people just followed the measures (like the swedes) and did not go full stupid on things like Ivermectin and bleach. What can work in one place can not always work in others because some places trust their doctors and others think they know better and there is some strange conspiracy going on. Why are you dragging Spain into your rant against crazies who don't believe doctors and take Ivermectin? Spain was hit hard by Corona waves 1-3, but people generally obeyed authority, which took very strict measures and vaccination started slowly due to supply issues, but compliance was high and by summer 2021 was among the highest in Europe (and probably still is). No Ivermectin use was reported by any local news I know of. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On April 29 2022 04:55 JimmiC wrote: I wonder what the dealth tolls would have been if people just followed the measures (like the swedes) and did not go full stupid on things like Ivermectin and bleach. What can work in one place can not always work in others because some places trust their doctors and others think they know better and there is some strange conspiracy going on. We didn't follow anything remotely like the measures that were imposed on you. It's not like we didn't do anything, but no one wore masks, all schools for children under high school age was open the whole time (thank god), you could travel freely during the whole pandemic (it was however recommended to not travel more than two hours away from your home). I basically did everything normally, except lecturing from home. I even played basketball with my YMCA team basically the whole time - except for a couple of months in the beginning. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 25 2022 22:30 Elroi wrote: Sure Sweden had higher mortality a couple of months, but if you look at the entire period of the pandemic, from March 2020 to the end of 2021, Sweden has lower excess mortality than Finland, third lowest in Europe after Norway and Iceland. I agree Sweden definitely took a better course for dealing with COVID than at least Finland did, all considered. | ||
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smille
30 Posts
On April 25 2022 22:30 Elroi wrote: We didn't follow anything remotely like the measures that were imposed on you. It's not like we didn't do anything, but no one wore masks, all schools for children under high school age was open the whole time (thank god), you could travel freely during the whole pandemic (it was however recommended to not travel more than two hours away from your home). I basically did everything normally, except lecturing from home. I even played basketball with my YMCA team basically the whole time - except for a couple of months in the beginning. I think what was meant, is that the Swedes maybe have abided more to measures like social distancing? Anyways, now that it sounds like Sweden hadn't had barely any measures, what was the thing they actually did smarter? Is it that less but more reasonable or comprehensive measures will simply lead to higher acceptance of these measures in your opinion? The thing is, I don’t see why Italy, France, or Germany would have done themselves a service with implementing the same measures. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
With the benefit of hindsight this might be a tempting conclusion to make regarding covid, but I caution to take this as a blueprint for a pandemic. In a position where we don't know a lot of things but HAVE to make a decision, relying on a populace to form their own opinion and act accordingly in a ever developing situation with essential information being discovered weekly or even daily, is beyond reckless to me. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/us-johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-blood-clot | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
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