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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On May 14 2020 05:11 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +March 3rd Scientists urge Government to advise public not to shake hands. Boris Johnson brags about shaking hands of Coronavirus patients. This one from Boris is almost unbelieveable, especially as he almost certainly got infected and hospitalized because of it. In general, I like the logic that the cleanest society is not necessarily the healthiest, as our overtuned immune system goes ham with allergies and other auto-immune illnesses, many of which are deadly. Someone even speculated in a "dirt" pill to keep it in check. In this case, I am fine with the toned-down greeting rituals, although I notice some awkwardness from some of the Spanish people I meet, where it is obvious their whole bodies want to french-kiss or shake hands to confirm a social relation. A nice smile and some kind words can do the job.
Man, I need to go to Spain once this is over.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 14 2020 05:36 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 04:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? I would guess he's as serious as the guy proposing handshakes be abandoned Is it that you have a reason for keeping hand shakes other than "but culture and precedent" or am I missing something? Covid is actively showing us there are downsides. What are the benefits other than "it would be weird not to"? My reason for keeping hand shakes are that there isn't a compelling reason to changing them outside of epidemics, and that your opinion is therefore arbitrary and ridiculous.
I mean there are also other pathogens that are routinely transmitted through handshakes, they just haven't been brought to the limelight as much as COVID has in recent times. Sure you may not think there are compelling reasons to change them, but then there's no compelling reason to keep them around rather than tradition, really. I don't think they should be banned, or mandated, but somewhere in between is probably where they will settle up.
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Just wash your hands. Problem solved
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On May 14 2020 05:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 05:36 Sbrubbles wrote:On May 14 2020 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 04:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? I would guess he's as serious as the guy proposing handshakes be abandoned Is it that you have a reason for keeping hand shakes other than "but culture and precedent" or am I missing something? Covid is actively showing us there are downsides. What are the benefits other than "it would be weird not to"? My reason for keeping hand shakes are that there isn't a compelling reason to changing them outside of epidemics, and that your opinion is therefore arbitrary and ridiculous. I mean there are also other pathogens that are routinely transmitted through handshakes, they just haven't been brought to the limelight as much as COVID has in recent times. Sure you may not think there are compelling reasons to change them, but then there's no compelling reason to keep them around rather than tradition, really. I don't think they should be banned, or mandated, but somewhere in between is probably where they will settle up.
"I mean there are also other pathogens that are routinely transmitted through handshakes" is an assertion of fact that while true is nowhere near qualified enough to even entertain such a discussion.
Did the importance of banning handshakes outside of a pandemic become a consensus among public health experts when I wasn't looking?
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United States44316 Posts
On May 14 2020 05:05 Emnjay808 wrote:
It’s not about masculinity if that’s what you guys are implying.
You can gather a lot of information from someone who has a firm handshake vs someone with a flimsy one. Often I’ll interpret it as confidence and positivity.
I’m speaking in the context of the value of a handshake. Not the pros and cons during a pandemic.
You might as well say that you can gather a lot of information from someone who has a piece of fabric hanging down from their neck of the approved length as opposed to one of a different length. It doesn’t mean anything, it’s entirely arbitrary.
If I meet someone and their tie is all fucked up then yeah, I might conclude that they’re either too stupid to know how to wear one or just don’t hold themselves to high standards. But the tie itself says nothing about them, what is being measured is their ability to conform to societal expectations. Handshakes are no different, there’s no link between grip strength and personality traits beyond the arbitrary designation of a correct grip strength which people of a particular personality type might go to the effort of learning.
Might as well do horoscopes if you’re doing gripscopes.
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On May 14 2020 05:36 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 04:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? I would guess he's as serious as the guy proposing handshakes be abandoned Is it that you have a reason for keeping hand shakes other than "but culture and precedent" or am I missing something? Covid is actively showing us there are downsides. What are the benefits other than "it would be weird not to"? My reason for keeping hand shakes are that there isn't a compelling reason to changing them outside of epidemics, and that your opinion is therefore arbitrary and ridiculous.
If I say something has zero value, but a slight disadvantage, I think it is fair to say that thing should be eliminated. Until value is shown, I see elimination as the only reasonable option. Keep in mind other viruses are transmitted via handshakes, kissing and other ritualistic nonsense every day. Covid is bringing attention to something that has been true for a long time. Just as we are learning about the value of WFH and other big issues from Covid, our social touching rituals can also be examined. And upon examination, I have still not seen a compelling reason to keep handshakes around other than an appeal to tradition. But appeals to tradition are formally considered fallacies.
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On May 14 2020 07:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 06:36 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 05:05 Emnjay808 wrote:
It’s not about masculinity if that’s what you guys are implying.
You can gather a lot of information from someone who has a firm handshake vs someone with a flimsy one. Often I’ll interpret it as confidence and positivity.
I’m speaking in the context of the value of a handshake. Not the pros and cons during a pandemic. You might as well say that you can gather a lot of information from someone who has a piece of fabric hanging down from their neck of the approved length as opposed to one of a different length. It doesn’t mean anything, it’s entirely arbitrary. If a meet someone and their tie is all fucked up then yeah, I might conclude that they’re either too stupid to know how to wear one or just don’t hold themselves to high standards. But the tie itself says nothing about them, what is being measured is their ability to conform to societal expectations. Handshakes are no different, there’s no link between grip strength and personality traits beyond the arbitrary designation of a correct grip strength which people of a particular personality type might go to the effort of learning. Might as well do horoscopes if you’re doing gripscopes. Yes no one should judge a book by the cover but we all do whether we like it or not. And one of the big advantages of a hand shake compared to a bow would be eye contact. Which can help people feel connected or not. At any rate I see no chance of it going away, look at how many people bristle at sitting a certain distance away from each other at the beach. This would just be another thing for people to yell freedom about, get all worked up, grab their guns and head some where for a protest. And any gains from the lack of hand shaking would be completely undone and then some by all the contact at the protests.
This is an argument against the viability of us being able to wage war on handshaking, which I think you're right about, but I don't think it shows that handshaking is a good custom. I think it is worthwhile to point out dysfunctions in society as we see them. That is how progress is made, whether minor or major issues.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37116 Posts
On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious?
Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner.
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I think dogs have the right of it when it comes to greetings. We should sniff each other, preferably in the genitals or butt. If we get good enough at it, we can really learn a lot about the other person, possibly even what they ate last night.
If that’s a little too personal, we can just do hair sniffing. Not sure why people think it’s creepy, it’s not even touching like a handshake is. Bleh, handshakers are gross. It’s like, “hey, let’s touch the thing I use to touch everything else and share all those germs.”
Sniffing would be better.
User was warned for this post.
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I don’t smell pretty girls when they’re near/walk past me, out of fear that I might fall in love (or catch COVID)
I’ll hold my breath, say my name and offer a firm handshake.
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United States44316 Posts
On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner.
What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37116 Posts
On May 14 2020 09:16 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner. What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about?
I'm not superstitious about any arbitrary social customs.
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2774 Posts
I thought us moderators were supposed to use the "Roman" salute, not handshakes.
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United States44316 Posts
On May 14 2020 11:36 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 09:16 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner. What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about? I'm not superstitious about any arbitrary social customs.
If we were to blindfold you and have you shake the hands of a variety of different individuals which traits do you think you could derive from the handshake? Could you tell, for example, when you’re shaking the hand of a Libra vs a Capricorn?
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United States44316 Posts
On May 14 2020 09:41 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 09:16 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner. What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about? Is it that different than your take on ties?
I was assuming he was claiming a greater degree of insight than my example of extrapolating from someone wearing a tie that they most likely deliberately chose to wear a tie and therefore are probably the kind of person who would choose to wear a tie, at least at times like the current one.
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I want this to be over so we can fight about inconsequential crap like whether handshakes give anything useful, or are actually superstition in a guise. But today, a couple more businesses related to my job closed down indefinitely, so I get to figure out alternatives starting tonight.
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United States44316 Posts
On May 14 2020 13:13 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 12:26 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 11:36 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 09:16 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner. What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about? I'm not superstitious about any arbitrary social customs. If we were to blindfold you and have you shake the hands of a variety of different individuals which traits do you think you could derive from the handshake? Could you tell, for example, when you’re shaking the hand of a Libra vs a Capricorn? One of the main points of the hand shake is the eye contact. Show nested quote +On May 14 2020 12:27 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 09:41 JimmiC wrote:On May 14 2020 09:16 KwarK wrote:On May 14 2020 07:48 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 04:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 14 2020 04:13 Seeker wrote:On May 14 2020 03:45 Mohdoo wrote:On May 14 2020 03:38 Seeker wrote:
Don’t abolish handshakes. They’re too damn important to society. Instead, we need to evolve to the point where at least one party brings out a travel-sized hand sanitizer and allows all involved parties to use it before the handshake(s) can take place. There, problem solved. I suppose the question I am asking is: SHOULD handshakes be important to society? Or should archaic bullshit be consciously removed from our day-to-day routines as we learn more about the world we live in? Some people in Italy, Spain and Iran are probably asking themselves if it makes sense to kiss each other constantly now that we see so clearly what a difference that can make with infection. I'm not asking if the current convention is to handshake. I am asking if that is a worthwhile custom that we should try to hold on to. I say toss it in the trash. For me, personally, I like physical forms of contact when I meet and get to know a new person. And a handshake is often indicative of what kind of person you’re dealing with, so I think it definitely has a role in society that cannot just be ignored. Are you serious? Yes, I'm serious. And I thank you for contributing to this thread with a pointless one-liner. What other arbitrary social customs are you superstitious about? Is it that different than your take on ties? I was assuming he was claiming a greater degree of insight than my example of extrapolating from someone wearing a tie that they most likely deliberately chose to wear a tie and therefore are probably the kind of person who would choose to wear a tie, at least at times like the current one. Thereby again proving that when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. It might be better practice to instead of making a cutting and condescending retort. You instead ask a question like " What sort of information to you expect to gather from the Hand Shake". If he says their lucky numbers and chance at love your Horoscope comment would work, but if he says what you said about ties, I'm guessing that would make sense to you. Not to mention there is a whole host of other options that he could say, certainly many that I would not be able to come up with. Much like in the other thread we are back to you picking the worst possible option and then being a jerk. It would be bad enough if you were a regular poster like the rest of us shlubs, but you would think a Mod would have the sense to not be such a jerk to another mod based on a negative assumption.
The assumption was reasonable because Seeker isn’t an idiot and my assumption was that he was claiming something other than the most idiotic interpretation. I don’t think it was much of a reach to rule out the possibility that the insight Seeker was referring to was along the lines of “this person has hands”. I presumed it was related to their broader character because, from context, that makes far more sense.
But apparently you’re replying for him now and feel a strong compulsion to insist that my assumption of his intelligence was misplaced. Don’t get me wrong, I think that he’s wrong about personality traits being identifiable from a handshake, that sounds like pop sci nonsense to me. But that’s still giving him more credit than what you’re doing when you imply that maybe he was just talking about deducing from a handshake whether the person had opposable thumbs.
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EPT
