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On October 10 2019 04:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:
1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019.
huh? Do you know what extradition is? Extradition is not related to the promise of "not imposing their laws". The USA doesn't impose its laws in Canada. However, if I run a giant telemarketing scam from Canada ripping off thousands of USA senior citizens I can be extradited to the USA by Canada. This doesn't mean the USA is imposing its laws in Canada. Both countries have prison sentences for people committing massive levels of fraud.
So why would anyone think that China and Hong Kong’s own extradition regulations will become China’s law in Hong Kong? And it violates the Basic Law (Hong Kong Constitution). Then I think you should look at the following content and news cases. Any situation you are worried about will not happen (that is, the support point of Hong Kong's opposition).
The amendments to the SAR Government clearly stipulate that the offenders who apply to the transfer to the Mainland must be guilty of 37 internationally recognized criminals with a term of seven years or more, and must be approved by the SAR court and the chief executive to implement the handover. . It also stipulates that "eight does not hand over", clearly indicating that the transferred criminal does not involve behavior related to speech, that is, it does not involve acts of news, speech, academics, publications, etc.
The SAR Government proposed to amend the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance. The direct fuse is a murder case that occurred in Taiwan last year.
According to Hong Kong media reports, in early February 2018, a young Hong Kong couple traveled to Taiwan, but it was suspected that there was a dispute in the trip. The man surnamed Chen was suspected of strangling his girlfriend in the hotel and then packing the body in a pink suitcase. Take the subway to the suburbs about 15 kilometers away.
In mid-February, Chen Nan returned to Hong Kong alone. After the woman’s parents found that their daughter’s disappearance, their credit card had a withdrawal record in Taiwan and Hong Kong, so they hurriedly reported the case to Hong Kong and Taiwan police. Chen Nan was arrested by the Hong Kong police and the incident was exposed in mid-March.
Chen Nan confessed to the Hong Kong police the murder and the location of the corpse. According to the confession, the Taiwan police found the body of the Pan girl near the subway station in Tamsui, but some of them have been corrupted into white bones. The Taiwan Land and Forestry Inspection Office filed a request for mutual legal assistance with the Hong Kong Government twice in March and April last year. In July, a letter was sent to Hong Kong to inform the evidence obtained, and Hong Kong would be assisted if it requested mutual legal assistance.
However, Chen Nan has returned to Hong Kong. In the absence of extradition regulations in Hong Kong and Taiwan, the prosecution of Hong Kong cannot sue him for murder and he cannot hand it over to the Taiwan police. If he does not return to Taiwan for trial, his murder will "not be sentenced." At present, the procuratorate of Hong Kong only sues the "theft" of the misappropriation of his girlfriend's credit card after Chen Nan returns to Hong Kong, as well as the "handling of stolen goods" for handling Pan's cell phone, camera and other items.
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On October 10 2019 04:19 whitehat511 wrote:
You've got to love all the irony of all these Americans and Europeans throwing around accusations that the Chinese government has committed atrocities. You know what they say about people in glass houses.
I dont understand people like you, why would u make an account just to argue about chinese atrocities on TL.net of all places?
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On October 10 2019 04:45 chuchuchu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:24 StasisField wrote:On October 10 2019 04:22 whitehat511 wrote:On October 10 2019 03:26 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese? It's like I'm here to express the thoughts of an ordinary Chinese. Indeed, I feel sad that I didn't learn English well, because what I lost is not a good paper, but an opportunity to communicate with others. Not only Americans can define the world. The pioneers of socialism and communism are Germans and French. Formerly President Roosevelt of the United States was also criticized for socialism or communism. But think about Chinese history, the current development of China, and the past workers of Britain. Some ideological conflicts are unavoidable, especially under the propaganda of some western media, they usually distort the report in order to satisfy their own interests. China does not do very well in many places, but it does not want to do so. No Chinese wants his country to be like India with the same population. (I do not mean to discriminate. Most Chinese want to live a good life first and guarantee everyone the same rights, wealth, rights and status.) In China, it is still possible to elect people who have been upgraded from the grassroots level through examinations and votes, while officials at the grassroots level are also elected. In China, former leaders were even born to poor peasants rather than a billion-dollar owner or equally wealthy political family. Both father and son are presidents. Western media believe that China is undemocratic and not free, and the Chinese believe that they are free and democratic. This seems to be a disgusting tactic. I was disappointed with many of the statements, especially those of the distorted Sixth Fourth Movement (my father was one of the participants, but later they built China into the second largest country in the world), and those who believed that the Hong Kong police should not react to any of the protestors'actions. When commenting, consider that China has 1.4 billion people. This country can not change because of the ideas of more than a dozen people, thousands of people and tens of thousands of people. The most important thing is to ensure that more than a billion people, like other Westerners, can live with wealth and dignity on this planet. I wonder what this guy thinks about the hundreds of students that were murdered at Tienanmen Square in 1989. And I wonder what you think about the Trail of Tears? The Trail of Tears is universally taught as an abhorrent action by the United States government here in the US. It is not celebrated. Its brutal events are condemned by the people and by society. So now tell us what you think about Tienanmen Square in 1989. The Chinese often regard 1989 as the same event as the Cultural Revolution. If you preach him, for the Chinese, as if to promote k.k.k, my father used to be one of them, but he told me a lot. The reason why the Chinese do not want to talk about the 1989 and the Cultural Revolution, because this is a disaster and an unspeakable thing. More importantly, they are related to political struggles. It’s as if Americans don’t talk about Lincoln actually not liberating all black slaves. The African Americans actually struggled for human rights until the 1960s-1970s, but today it is no longer a simple assassination of Martin Luther King. In fact, you can see when I see you talking to you here. China is not what you think. I will still talk to you about this, because Blizzard is often more tolerant, just like StarCraft, or World of Warcraft shows. I will not be arrested. Similarly, if I know you in reality, maybe I will pretend not to know and be surprised as you mentioned above. In fact, I started to understand 1989, or from China's website (dark network, the Chinese network is very complicated, in fact, you can find what you want, including everything that violates all human laws) Because we don't want to talk about it, this is not a simple thing. Just like we don't talk about conspiracy theories on the moon or aliens in the 51st district. We talked about Kennedy flying more to the moon and today's nasa, not to him and Marilyn Monroe, as well as Cuba, and the conspiracy theories he was killed. (Actually, these conspiracy theories in the United States were very popular in China. People refused to believe that landing on the moon was true. People also believed that Kennedy died of Marilyn Monroe and family curses, and there were really aliens in District 51.)
People in the US talk about our historical figures' short-comings all the time. They are taught in schools. They are not something we have to go seek out on our own on a website. My US History teacher brought up the hypocrisy of Thomas Jefferson writing "The right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" while still owning slaves many times. We were taught about Lincoln's actual beliefs and how what he did did not truly liberate everyone and bring us on an even playing field. The struggles of the Civil Rights movement are talked about in-depth in schools. The atrocities of our government are openly taught and condemned.
You just grouped Tienanmen Square in with conspiracy theories and that's all that I think really needs to be said on that, but I will say more. Your own government murdered its own people. It drove students over with tanks without issue. Students that were peacefully protesting. Your government murdered people. It happened. It is not a conspiracy and it does not deserve to be treated like some outlandish concept. The fact you are so afraid to talk about awful things your government has done speaks volumes.
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On October 10 2019 05:01 chuchuchu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:
1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019.
huh? Do you know what extradition is? Extradition is not related to the promise of "not imposing their laws". The USA doesn't impose its laws in Canada. However, if I run a giant telemarketing scam from Canada ripping off thousands of USA senior citizens I can be extradited to the USA by Canada. This doesn't mean the USA is imposing its laws in Canada. Both countries have prison sentences for people committing massive levels of fraud. So why would anyone think that China and Hong Kong’s own extradition regulations will become China’s law in Hong Kong? And it violates the Basic Law (Hong Kong Constitution). Then I think you should look at the following content and news cases. Any situation you are worried about will not happen (that is, the support point of Hong Kong's opposition). The amendments to the SAR Government clearly stipulate that the offenders who apply to the transfer to the Mainland must be guilty of 37 internationally recognized criminals with a term of seven years or more, and must be approved by the SAR court and the chief executive to implement the handover. . It also stipulates that "eight does not hand over", clearly indicating that the transferred criminal does not involve behavior related to speech, that is, it does not involve acts of news, speech, academics, publications, etc. The SAR Government proposed to amend the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance. The direct fuse is a murder case that occurred in Taiwan last year. According to Hong Kong media reports, in early February 2018, a young Hong Kong couple traveled to Taiwan, but it was suspected that there was a dispute in the trip. The man surnamed Chen was suspected of strangling his girlfriend in the hotel and then packing the body in a pink suitcase. Take the subway to the suburbs about 15 kilometers away. In mid-February, Chen Nan returned to Hong Kong alone. After the woman’s parents found that their daughter’s disappearance, their credit card had a withdrawal record in Taiwan and Hong Kong, so they hurriedly reported the case to Hong Kong and Taiwan police. Chen Nan was arrested by the Hong Kong police and the incident was exposed in mid-March. Chen Nan confessed to the Hong Kong police the murder and the location of the corpse. According to the confession, the Taiwan police found the body of the Pan girl near the subway station in Tamsui, but some of them have been corrupted into white bones. The Taiwan Land and Forestry Inspection Office filed a request for mutual legal assistance with the Hong Kong Government twice in March and April last year. In July, a letter was sent to Hong Kong to inform the evidence obtained, and Hong Kong would be assisted if it requested mutual legal assistance. However, Chen Nan has returned to Hong Kong. In the absence of extradition regulations in Hong Kong and Taiwan, the prosecution of Hong Kong cannot sue him for murder and he cannot hand it over to the Taiwan police. If he does not return to Taiwan for trial, his murder will "not be sentenced." At present, the procuratorate of Hong Kong only sues the "theft" of the misappropriation of his girlfriend's credit card after Chen Nan returns to Hong Kong, as well as the "handling of stolen goods" for handling Pan's cell phone, camera and other items.
"Any situation you are worried about will not happen "
Sorry it's already happened, and you will find it if you know the causes of the 2019 Hong Kong protests.
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Northern Ireland23738 Posts
On October 10 2019 04:50 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:24 StasisField wrote:On October 10 2019 04:22 whitehat511 wrote:On October 10 2019 03:26 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese? It's like I'm here to express the thoughts of an ordinary Chinese. Indeed, I feel sad that I didn't learn English well, because what I lost is not a good paper, but an opportunity to communicate with others. Not only Americans can define the world. The pioneers of socialism and communism are Germans and French. Formerly President Roosevelt of the United States was also criticized for socialism or communism. But think about Chinese history, the current development of China, and the past workers of Britain. Some ideological conflicts are unavoidable, especially under the propaganda of some western media, they usually distort the report in order to satisfy their own interests. China does not do very well in many places, but it does not want to do so. No Chinese wants his country to be like India with the same population. (I do not mean to discriminate. Most Chinese want to live a good life first and guarantee everyone the same rights, wealth, rights and status.) In China, it is still possible to elect people who have been upgraded from the grassroots level through examinations and votes, while officials at the grassroots level are also elected. In China, former leaders were even born to poor peasants rather than a billion-dollar owner or equally wealthy political family. Both father and son are presidents. Western media believe that China is undemocratic and not free, and the Chinese believe that they are free and democratic. This seems to be a disgusting tactic. I was disappointed with many of the statements, especially those of the distorted Sixth Fourth Movement (my father was one of the participants, but later they built China into the second largest country in the world), and those who believed that the Hong Kong police should not react to any of the protestors'actions. When commenting, consider that China has 1.4 billion people. This country can not change because of the ideas of more than a dozen people, thousands of people and tens of thousands of people. The most important thing is to ensure that more than a billion people, like other Westerners, can live with wealth and dignity on this planet. I wonder what this guy thinks about the hundreds of students that were murdered at Tienanmen Square in 1989. And I wonder what you think about the Trail of Tears? The Trail of Tears is universally taught as an abhorrent action by the United States government here in the US. It is not celebrated. Its brutal events are condemned by the people and by society. So now tell us what you think about Tienanmen Square in 1989. Tienanmen Square in 1989 was also a brutal event and a mistake like many throughout history... And so what? 3 decades or 30 years have passed, 3 leaders have changed, lessons have been learned. You think that Xi Jinping will start killing his own people like in the past? What does Tienanmen Square have to do with the situation now at hand in Hong Kong? After 4 months of violent protesting and rioting, there is 1 person shot (not even dead) after he attacked a policeman. If anything Hong Kong police are handling the situation way better then countries like France or the US...
The point is not that Tienamen Square is something that we see the like of in a contemporary sense, but to ascertain what Chinese people themselves know/think about it, as an illustrative example of the media censorship that occurs.
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On October 10 2019 04:50 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:24 StasisField wrote:On October 10 2019 04:22 whitehat511 wrote:On October 10 2019 03:26 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese? It's like I'm here to express the thoughts of an ordinary Chinese. Indeed, I feel sad that I didn't learn English well, because what I lost is not a good paper, but an opportunity to communicate with others. Not only Americans can define the world. The pioneers of socialism and communism are Germans and French. Formerly President Roosevelt of the United States was also criticized for socialism or communism. But think about Chinese history, the current development of China, and the past workers of Britain. Some ideological conflicts are unavoidable, especially under the propaganda of some western media, they usually distort the report in order to satisfy their own interests. China does not do very well in many places, but it does not want to do so. No Chinese wants his country to be like India with the same population. (I do not mean to discriminate. Most Chinese want to live a good life first and guarantee everyone the same rights, wealth, rights and status.) In China, it is still possible to elect people who have been upgraded from the grassroots level through examinations and votes, while officials at the grassroots level are also elected. In China, former leaders were even born to poor peasants rather than a billion-dollar owner or equally wealthy political family. Both father and son are presidents. Western media believe that China is undemocratic and not free, and the Chinese believe that they are free and democratic. This seems to be a disgusting tactic. I was disappointed with many of the statements, especially those of the distorted Sixth Fourth Movement (my father was one of the participants, but later they built China into the second largest country in the world), and those who believed that the Hong Kong police should not react to any of the protestors'actions. When commenting, consider that China has 1.4 billion people. This country can not change because of the ideas of more than a dozen people, thousands of people and tens of thousands of people. The most important thing is to ensure that more than a billion people, like other Westerners, can live with wealth and dignity on this planet. I wonder what this guy thinks about the hundreds of students that were murdered at Tienanmen Square in 1989. And I wonder what you think about the Trail of Tears? The Trail of Tears is universally taught as an abhorrent action by the United States government here in the US. It is not celebrated. Its brutal events are condemned by the people and by society. So now tell us what you think about Tienanmen Square in 1989. Tienanmen Square in 1989 was also a brutal event and a mistake like many throughout history... And so what? 3 decades or 30 years have passed, 3 leaders have changed, lessons have been learned. You think that Xi Jinping will start killing his own people like in the past? What does Tienanmen Square have to do with the situation now at hand in Hong Kong? After 4 months of violent protesting and rioting, there is 1 person shot (not even dead) after he attacked a policeman. If anything Hong Kong police are handling the situation way better then countries like France or the US...
The reason I and many others bring it up is the difference in how a country's atrocities are handled by the country itself. And yes, many people fear that China will escalate to lethal force if the protests continue. And 4 months of violent protests? That's completely disingenuous and you know it. The protests were completely peaceful on the protesters' side of things for a very long time. They only recently became violent on both sides of the protest.
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That's a horrible move by Blizzard.
I hope they get boycotted for real by every single customer they're ever had so this doesn't become a trend among western companies.
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On October 10 2019 05:01 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:19 whitehat511 wrote:
You've got to love all the irony of all these Americans and Europeans throwing around accusations that the Chinese government has committed atrocities. You know what they say about people in glass houses. I dont understand people like you, why would u make an account just to argue about chinese atrocities on TL.net of all places?
Maybe it is his/her job to do so. It is not the only account created only for arguing in this thread.
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On October 10 2019 04:57 jy_9876543210 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:48 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 04:41 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 04:35 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:On October 10 2019 02:46 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 02:13 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:
[quote]
if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese?. I hope you understand that while this is an interesting conversation, your views are inherently skewed by the propaganda you've been fed every day. We know how the Chinese media works (and it's not just China btw. America has much of the same problems, and most of us here do recognise it as such). You have already made made several false statements and made comparisons that does not make sense (Comparing China to England because England has a mock Queen for instance). As such everything you say will be taken with the biggest grain of salt imaginable I do think it's interesting what the ordinary Chinese thinks, but it truthfully doesn't matter. You don't get to commit human rights violations and consider it ok because "The ordinary Chinese thinks so". Guess who doesn't think it's ok? Hong Kong and its citizens. Very interesting, wrong comparison I just want to show that some forms of democracy and freedom will change, just as discrimination against blacks is definitely not one of freedom of speech in the United States. Although Martin Luther King was killed. Similarly, China's democracy and freedom are not so much the same as the United States, because the so-called autocracy and dictator seem to be like the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan. And when you talk about it, we should think about Hong Kong and its citizens. I am very eager to ask, do you know how many Hong Kong people participated in this Chinese National Day celebration? Including young people, college students, government officials, police, famous stars, and ordinary people. Do you think we should think about Hong Kong people, then do you know how many people in Hong Kong support the police parade? The police in Hong Kong, the government in Hong Kong, Hong Kong, so many condemns the violent protesters, and the ordinary people, shouting at the bbc reporters, this is Hong Kong, China, the taxi driver who supports the law revision, isn't it Hong Kong? What you see seems to be the collective public opinion of Hong Kong, actually because those people have amplified this reaction through radical methods. Think about it, if it is really a problem of the society and the Chinese government, the Hong Kong government, the ordinary people of Hong Kong (Is it not ordinary people and the grassroots officials?) Are these attitudes still not showing anything? Think about how good the credibility of the Hong Kong government is, and the same group of people are not trusted now. The vast majority of protesters on the streets of Hong Kong are college students, young people, and young unemployed people. Is this a normal antibody or a collective carnival of young people, like an American youth who likes to take drugs? China has experienced two very painful students, and the young people have dominated the political violent protests, almost smashing the entire country. However, these protests did not make more than a billion people ignorant, and the ordinary Chinese who were at a loss knew how to live well. The Chinese have supported all the legal acts of Hong Kong and have wanted to split China and Hong Kong for many years. There is nothing too fierce. We support Hong Kong, support democracy, support freedom, and even to some extent, support universal suffrage in Hong Kong. However, what you have to understand is what is the slogan of Hong Kong's independence and violence? This is what the Hong Kong player and the NBA rocket manager said. This is also why the Chinese currently call it a terrorist, because terrorists in the Middle East often call themselves freedom fighters. If Hong Kong, China, is not dominated by the majority of Chinese people and by the majority of Hong Kong people, then who will decide? Can Texas and California declare independence today and expel all blacks and people from other states？ So，why China give up HK？and Violent protestors demanding the expulsion of mainlanders？ In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons。 (you can find it in many Hong Kong movies，In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons (you can find out from many Hong Kong movies, including asking mainlanders if they have seen Apple phones made in China, and mocking the mainland for lack of high-rise power and modern technology, the same thing is still happening to Chinese people in Europe, the United States, etc.)It used to be Korea and Japan.). You bring up valid points, but what you seem to miss out on is how this all started in the first place. There is currently a Sino-British joint declaration agreement between China and the UK dated back in 1984 and went into effect in 1997 stating that HK will have its own government, is able to pass its own laws, and that their way of life would not change for 50 years. You can read a bit on that agreement here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration. This means that in this agreement, China agreed that its PRC principles would not be practiced in HK until 2047. Despite this agreement, in 2014, China proposed a reform to HK's electoral system, a clear infringement of the agreement. Since China agreed that HK could remain autonomous and have authority over their own government, then why is China screening candidates for HK's Chief Executive? This started around 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests), and afterwards the British Foreign Office announced that Chinese officials now treat this declaration as void. You say China support HK's democracy, then why not let the HK'ers elect who they want, instead of screening who they want the HK people to elect? The HK'ers are upset because they were promised 50 years, but China is trying to impose only 22 years into the treaty. Does this mean China's words aren't even worth 50% of what they put on papers? So flash forward to the current protest, how did it start? Well, China wanted to pass an extradite bill in HK, another infringement of the current agreement. HK'ers did not want this law, which they are within their own rights to deny since China agreed it will not impose, yet China still adamantly demand that this law be passed. If you look over at the 5 demands HK is currently protesting for, they are extremely reasonable given that China started this by breaking their words. 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019. 2. Inquiry into police brutality - Also valid, the people would like to investigate police's conduct. The police are meant to protect the people, not beat them up when they are protesting. 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as rioters - This started because China broke its words, so the people were upset and protested. Had China not broke its words, this wouldn't have happened. The people marched because China lied, not because they randomly rioted out of no where. This point can be a case by case basis with some standards since I understand not all protesters are good, some can be destructive, and we should judge them fairly. 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters - Same as point 3. 5. Dual universal suffrage, for both their Legislative and Chief Executive - Again, China signed an agreement that allows the HK'ers to manage their own government. If they are true to their words, let the HK'ers decide how they want their government to be ran. My main point is that HK originally didn't protest for independence. This was NOT how the protest started. They started because China lied and backed out of their own words only 22 years into a 50 years signed agreement. It is only escalating because instead of admitting they were in the wrong, China cracked down on the HK citizens. HK citizens now are entertaining independence because they realized Mainland China does not keep its word. To use a Starcraft analogy, this is similar to Mengsk, Reynor, and Kerrigan working together, yet Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan on that one planet (forgot the name). When Reynor became rightfully pissed for what Mengsk did and turned on him, Mengsk called Reynor a terrorist. China is pulling a Mengsk right now. If China is true to its words. Come back in 28 years and let the HK'ers do what they want to do with their government for now. 1. China hopes to sign extradition regulations with Hong Kong (extending criminal offenders because there have been criminals who have committed murder and rape in mainland China and have been cast into Hong Kong. The Chinese government and other countries such as the United States also have extradition regulations, and the Hong Kong government has other regions. The state has extradition regulations). Why is it rejected? This is not because mainland China requires the implementation of laws in Hong Kong, but hopes to sign regulations with Hong Kong. This is actually very strange. It is actually an agreement between a country and a country within a country. 2. I hope that you can read the Sino-British Joint Declaration carefully. He has not given the British any rights after this. You can blame the Chinese government, but because of this, I think other countries are involved. This is still the Beijing government of China and the Hong Kong region. problem. In addition, the Chinese government's commitment is to keep Hong Kong unchanged for 50 years. I don't know how you understand it. I have two thoughts. One is to continue Hong Kong before the colony in 1997, and the second is to follow the basic law after 1997. Hong Kong. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a colony. Hong Kong people did not even have British nationality. The leaders of Hong Kong were all British whites. They were also British nationals, both the first and the second, including the Hong Kong Constitution, the Sino-British Joint Declaration. During the British colonial period, there was no universal suffrage. I don't know where Hong Kong's universal suffrage comes from. This violates the Constitution of Hong Kong - the Basic Law. In addition, without universal suffrage, it cannot mean that they have no democracy. Hong Kong's politics is closer to the Swiss political system, and each leader does not adopt the Swiss rotation system. Keeping it for 50 years, isn't it just that there is no universal suffrage? Once the universal suffrage is not a violation of the China Commitment and the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and the Hong Kong Basic Law? Although I think that Hong Kong has been harming itself for 50 years, the development of first-tier cities in China is much better than that of Hong Kong. For me, I have lived in Shanghai for a long time, and Hong Kong is like a rural area. Of course, I am not actually, most of them. This is also true in Europe, and I have a stark contrast to the views of Japanese cities. 3. The Chinese government of Beijing and all Chinese have never opposed liberal democracy and legal protests. However, after the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese were sensitive to the protests because we realized that such collective behavior would often evolve into violence. For example, China’s previous protests, the US bombing of the Yugoslav embassy, and Japan’s activities to commemorate the death of soldiers in World War II. This kind of parade in China has produced extreme violence, as happened in Hong Kong. If you don't trust the Chinese and don't trust the Chinese government, don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised, don't believe it? Don't you believe in Western media? Go look for their evaluation of the Hong Kong police and the Hong Kong government in history. 4. Special criminals are not advisable. Think about the United States, but the country with the highest proportion of prison population. Of course, I don't want China to become the United States. But think about it. There are many British nationals in the Hong Kong police, white people (maybe I think you still don't believe in the yellow race, but I don't think it is racist). Hong Kong's judicial system, so the judges are British nationality, Australian nationality, 90% of judges are white. You should trust them, not a group of unemployed people, a group of young people who have taken a poison and drink alcohol and have sex on the roadside (although you call it freedom, but often these are blocked by neutral media). Opposite to these violent protesters are peaceful protesters who have long since left the protest, and supporters who support the police, support the Hong Kong government, and support the Chinese government. They are more numerous, but unfortunately they need to work and they do not use violence. So it seems to be weak, and because many of them are older people (you should have heard of Hong Kong's aging), they are not very familiar with the Internet, and the Internet is now a Z-age person (in fact, 1995-2000) Born person). 5. Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people. Hong Kong knows that Hong Kong is bought by Li Ka-shing, and that the Chinese government cannot interfere and support socialism. Everyone has food and housing. Later, the economic decline of Western society, if you are a European, there should be experience, the US economy has recently grown, but it is also uncomfortable. After the 2008 financial turmoil, it has been declining for a long time. China is getting better and better. When China gets better, when they find that the Chinese who once earned 200 yuan a month have the same income and even more money, they find that they can’t be like the colonial era. Next, when it came to China, it became a millionaire, went to bed with more girls, and bought more luxurious cosmetics. So I hope to return to the colonial era and pass violence. (Their slogan is what you saw in this Hong Kong player and the NBA), by robbing mobile phone stores, selling them online, by raising the flags of the United States and the United Kingdom. I saw Swedes, and I think I should understand why, academically, the Sedgmo syndrome. Perhaps Westerners believe that the colonial era is very glorious. "don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised" "Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people." This is trolling for sure... I can hardly find any other explanations. Oh, poor man. In fact, it is very simple. You only need to use Google to search for the gap between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong. Have you been to Hong Kong and China? I am very familiar with it. Yeah yeah I can find Gini index for every country in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equalityBut why do you think that's the reason of the protest? Where did you find that? Who told you that? You are very familiar with it but you don't know the reason?
After removing the tax and welfare transfers, Hong Kong’s Gini index was as high as 0.54.
If you have been to Chicago and New York, think about where the tramp is, social security (Hong Kong people want to thank the Hong Kong police for their efforts)
In addition, you should check that the top ten billionaires in Hong Kong account for Hong Kong's GDP (more than 35%). The disparity between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong has been criticized by the United Nations.
If you can visit Hong Kong's own website
You will find that Hong Kong officially announced that there are 1.3 million poor people in 7.6 million people in Hong Kong. Perhaps you should use Google to search for the poor in Hong Kong directly, or go to Hong Kong in person. Take a look at the slums in the bustling city. (The slums in mainland China have long since disappeared)
Hong Kong is an area without a universal retirement protection system. It is well developed, but his university enrollment rate is only 20%. This is the famous ten universities in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is a developed region and an unbalanced region. You should probably look at the encyclopedia about Li Ka-shing and see his property. We call him Lee half HK (Lee half HK)
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On October 10 2019 04:35 chuchuchu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:On October 10 2019 02:46 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 02:13 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese?. I hope you understand that while this is an interesting conversation, your views are inherently skewed by the propaganda you've been fed every day. We know how the Chinese media works (and it's not just China btw. America has much of the same problems, and most of us here do recognise it as such). You have already made made several false statements and made comparisons that does not make sense (Comparing China to England because England has a mock Queen for instance). As such everything you say will be taken with the biggest grain of salt imaginable I do think it's interesting what the ordinary Chinese thinks, but it truthfully doesn't matter. You don't get to commit human rights violations and consider it ok because "The ordinary Chinese thinks so". Guess who doesn't think it's ok? Hong Kong and its citizens. Very interesting, wrong comparison I just want to show that some forms of democracy and freedom will change, just as discrimination against blacks is definitely not one of freedom of speech in the United States. Although Martin Luther King was killed. Similarly, China's democracy and freedom are not so much the same as the United States, because the so-called autocracy and dictator seem to be like the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan. And when you talk about it, we should think about Hong Kong and its citizens. I am very eager to ask, do you know how many Hong Kong people participated in this Chinese National Day celebration? Including young people, college students, government officials, police, famous stars, and ordinary people. Do you think we should think about Hong Kong people, then do you know how many people in Hong Kong support the police parade? The police in Hong Kong, the government in Hong Kong, Hong Kong, so many condemns the violent protesters, and the ordinary people, shouting at the bbc reporters, this is Hong Kong, China, the taxi driver who supports the law revision, isn't it Hong Kong? What you see seems to be the collective public opinion of Hong Kong, actually because those people have amplified this reaction through radical methods. Think about it, if it is really a problem of the society and the Chinese government, the Hong Kong government, the ordinary people of Hong Kong (Is it not ordinary people and the grassroots officials?) Are these attitudes still not showing anything? Think about how good the credibility of the Hong Kong government is, and the same group of people are not trusted now. The vast majority of protesters on the streets of Hong Kong are college students, young people, and young unemployed people. Is this a normal antibody or a collective carnival of young people, like an American youth who likes to take drugs? China has experienced two very painful students, and the young people have dominated the political violent protests, almost smashing the entire country. However, these protests did not make more than a billion people ignorant, and the ordinary Chinese who were at a loss knew how to live well. The Chinese have supported all the legal acts of Hong Kong and have wanted to split China and Hong Kong for many years. There is nothing too fierce. We support Hong Kong, support democracy, support freedom, and even to some extent, support universal suffrage in Hong Kong. However, what you have to understand is what is the slogan of Hong Kong's independence and violence? This is what the Hong Kong player and the NBA rocket manager said. This is also why the Chinese currently call it a terrorist, because terrorists in the Middle East often call themselves freedom fighters. If Hong Kong, China, is not dominated by the majority of Chinese people and by the majority of Hong Kong people, then who will decide? Can Texas and California declare independence today and expel all blacks and people from other states？ So，why China give up HK？and Violent protestors demanding the expulsion of mainlanders？ In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons。 (you can find it in many Hong Kong movies，In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons (you can find out from many Hong Kong movies, including asking mainlanders if they have seen Apple phones made in China, and mocking the mainland for lack of high-rise power and modern technology, the same thing is still happening to Chinese people in Europe, the United States, etc.)It used to be Korea and Japan.). You bring up valid points, but what you seem to miss out on is how this all started in the first place. There is currently a Sino-British joint declaration agreement between China and the UK dated back in 1984 and went into effect in 1997 stating that HK will have its own government, is able to pass its own laws, and that their way of life would not change for 50 years. You can read a bit on that agreement here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration. This means that in this agreement, China agreed that its PRC principles would not be practiced in HK until 2047. Despite this agreement, in 2014, China proposed a reform to HK's electoral system, a clear infringement of the agreement. Since China agreed that HK could remain autonomous and have authority over their own government, then why is China screening candidates for HK's Chief Executive? This started around 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests), and afterwards the British Foreign Office announced that Chinese officials now treat this declaration as void. You say China support HK's democracy, then why not let the HK'ers elect who they want, instead of screening who they want the HK people to elect? The HK'ers are upset because they were promised 50 years, but China is trying to impose only 22 years into the treaty. Does this mean China's words aren't even worth 50% of what they put on papers? So flash forward to the current protest, how did it start? Well, China wanted to pass an extradite bill in HK, another infringement of the current agreement. HK'ers did not want this law, which they are within their own rights to deny since China agreed it will not impose, yet China still adamantly demand that this law be passed. If you look over at the 5 demands HK is currently protesting for, they are extremely reasonable given that China started this by breaking their words. 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019. 2. Inquiry into police brutality - Also valid, the people would like to investigate police's conduct. The police are meant to protect the people, not beat them up when they are protesting. 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as rioters - This started because China broke its words, so the people were upset and protested. Had China not broke its words, this wouldn't have happened. The people marched because China lied, not because they randomly rioted out of no where. This point can be a case by case basis with some standards since I understand not all protesters are good, some can be destructive, and we should judge them fairly. 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters - Same as point 3. 5. Dual universal suffrage, for both their Legislative and Chief Executive - Again, China signed an agreement that allows the HK'ers to manage their own government. If they are true to their words, let the HK'ers decide how they want their government to be ran. My main point is that HK originally didn't protest for independence. This was NOT how the protest started. They started because China lied and backed out of their own words only 22 years into a 50 years signed agreement. It is only escalating because instead of admitting they were in the wrong, China cracked down on the HK citizens. HK citizens now are entertaining independence because they realized Mainland China does not keep its word. To use a Starcraft analogy, this is similar to Mengsk, Reynor, and Kerrigan working together, yet Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan on that one planet (forgot the name). When Reynor became rightfully pissed for what Mengsk did and turned on him, Mengsk called Reynor a terrorist. China is pulling a Mengsk right now. If China is true to its words. Come back in 28 years and let the HK'ers do what they want to do with their government for now. 1. China hopes to sign extradition regulations with Hong Kong (extending criminal offenders because there have been criminals who have committed murder and rape in mainland China and have been cast into Hong Kong. The Chinese government and other countries such as the United States also have extradition regulations, and the Hong Kong government has other regions. The state has extradition regulations). Why is it rejected? This is not because mainland China requires the implementation of laws in Hong Kong, but hopes to sign regulations with Hong Kong. This is actually very strange. It is actually an agreement between a country and a country within a country. 2. I hope that you can read the Sino-British Joint Declaration carefully. He has not given the British any rights after this. You can blame the Chinese government, but because of this, I think other countries are involved. This is still the Beijing government of China and the Hong Kong region. problem. In addition, the Chinese government's commitment is to keep Hong Kong unchanged for 50 years. I don't know how you understand it. I have two thoughts. One is to continue Hong Kong before the colony in 1997, and the second is to follow the basic law after 1997. Hong Kong. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a colony. Hong Kong people did not even have British nationality. The leaders of Hong Kong were all British whites. They were also British nationals, both the first and the second, including the Hong Kong Constitution, the Sino-British Joint Declaration. During the British colonial period, there was no universal suffrage. I don't know where Hong Kong's universal suffrage comes from. This violates the Constitution of Hong Kong - the Basic Law. In addition, without universal suffrage, it cannot mean that they have no democracy. Hong Kong's politics is closer to the Swiss political system, and each leader does not adopt the Swiss rotation system. Keeping it for 50 years, isn't it just that there is no universal suffrage? Once the universal suffrage is not a violation of the China Commitment and the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and the Hong Kong Basic Law? Although I think that Hong Kong has been harming itself for 50 years, the development of first-tier cities in China is much better than that of Hong Kong. For me, I have lived in Shanghai for a long time, and Hong Kong is like a rural area. Of course, I am not actually, most of them. This is also true in Europe, and I have a stark contrast to the views of Japanese cities. 3. The Chinese government of Beijing and all Chinese have never opposed liberal democracy and legal protests. However, after the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese were sensitive to the protests because we realized that such collective behavior would often evolve into violence. For example, China’s previous protests, the US bombing of the Yugoslav embassy, and Japan’s activities to commemorate the death of soldiers in World War II. This kind of parade in China has produced extreme violence, as happened in Hong Kong. If you don't trust the Chinese and don't trust the Chinese government, don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised, don't believe it? Don't you believe in Western media? Go look for their evaluation of the Hong Kong police and the Hong Kong government in history. 4. Special criminals are not advisable. Think about the United States, but the country with the highest proportion of prison population. Of course, I don't want China to become the United States. But think about it. There are many British nationals in the Hong Kong police, white people (maybe I think you still don't believe in the yellow race, but I don't think it is racist). Hong Kong's judicial system, so the judges are British nationality, Australian nationality, 90% of judges are white. You should trust them, not a group of unemployed people, a group of young people who have taken a poison and drink alcohol and have sex on the roadside (although you call it freedom, but often these are blocked by neutral media). Opposite to these violent protesters are peaceful protesters who have long since left the protest, and supporters who support the police, support the Hong Kong government, and support the Chinese government. They are more numerous, but unfortunately they need to work and they do not use violence. So it seems to be weak, and because many of them are older people (you should have heard of Hong Kong's aging), they are not very familiar with the Internet, and the Internet is now a Z-age person (in fact, 1995-2000) Born person). 5. Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people. Hong Kong knows that Hong Kong is bought by Li Ka-shing, and that the Chinese government cannot interfere and support socialism. Everyone has food and housing. Later, the economic decline of Western society, if you are a European, there should be experience, the US economy has recently grown, but it is also uncomfortable. After the 2008 financial turmoil, it has been declining for a long time. China is getting better and better. When China gets better, when they find that the Chinese who once earned 200 yuan a month have the same income and even more money, they find that they can’t be like the colonial era. Next, when it came to China, it became a millionaire, went to bed with more girls, and bought more luxurious cosmetics. So I hope to return to the colonial era and pass violence. (Their slogan is what you saw in this Hong Kong player and the NBA), by robbing mobile phone stores, selling them online, by raising the flags of the United States and the United Kingdom. I saw Swedes, and I think I should understand why, academically, the Sedgmo syndrome. Perhaps Westerners believe that the colonial era is very glorious.
1. That's the thing, Hong Kong doesn't want to have this bill. They should be allowed to decline. What if the US suddenly ask China to pass a bill tomorrow that says the US can come in, arrest Chinese citizens they claim are criminals, and bring them back to US for trial? Would China want that law passed? No, they would tell the US no. It's the same thing with Hong Kong. Different countries having a treaty or agreement signed does not mean every country has to have the same agreement signed. If Hong Kong does not want it, then China should respect that.
2. I think you're misunderstanding my argument. I am not saying that British has rights or anything in the agreement. Hong Kong was a colony, and Britain gave it back to China. This is purely a China and Hong Kong issue.The argument is that China agreed to let Hong Kong manage themselves, yet now they are forcefully trying to pass laws for Hong Kong, and then call Hong Kong'ers terrorists for not wanting it. Whether or not China's best cities are more developed than Hong Kong, or if you think Hong Kong is rural is irrelevant.
The universal suffrage thing was a new demand. HK'ers wants to elect their own people without needing to screen the candidates by China. Under the "One Country, Two Systems" policy, can you tell me why this is bad? Why does China want to screen Hong Kong's candidates when it agreed that Hong Kong can manage itself? The universal suffrage does not violate any Sino-British Joint Declaration points, since its the Hong Kong citizens that are demanding for this. However, China demanding Hong Kong to pass certain laws does violate the declaration. Keeping Hong Kong the same for 50 years doesn't mean Hong Kong does not change for 50 years, it means that this policy of Hong Kong being able to pass, and reject their own laws are protected for 50 years. Here are the excerpts:
"The [HKSAR] will be vested with executive, legislative and independent judicial power, including that of final adjudication. The laws currently in force in Hong Kong will remain basically unchanged."
3. I can see why China doesn't trust these kind of big protests. As they have had first hand experience with this. China can actually take a simple approach that would prevent a lot of Hong Kong citizens from being killed actually. Don't bring in tanks to mow down the Hong Kong protesters like they did to the people in Tiananmen Square. Problem solved.
4. What do you mean by special criminals? All I want is for the arrested folks to have a fair legal trial, not just get thrown in jail because they were protesting. You can't just generalize young protesters as unemployed, drug doing hippies, that have sex on the road lol. I see you mention that a lot. We aren't walking around doing drugs and having sex with everyone here, I wish we were that cool, but we're not.
5. What? What part of the five demands the Hong Kong people are making say they want to or even mention colonial era?
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On October 10 2019 05:14 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 05:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On October 10 2019 04:19 whitehat511 wrote:
You've got to love all the irony of all these Americans and Europeans throwing around accusations that the Chinese government has committed atrocities. You know what they say about people in glass houses. I dont understand people like you, why would u make an account just to argue about chinese atrocities on TL.net of all places? Maybe it is his/her job to do so. It is not the only account created only for arguing in this thread.
OK maybe I was wrong, maybe the big machine does care about TL forum... It feels like the comments under CCTV channel on youtube. You click on any of the accounts, and you will see that it's created in 1 day and just to post the only comment.
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Actually ChuChuChu you keep repeating what is understood to be chinese propaganda.
Everything is glorious. Everyone is glorious. I have huge respect for China's achievements, but not that propaganda bullshit, not for opressiing people and truths.
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On October 10 2019 05:18 chuchuchu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:57 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 04:48 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 04:41 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 04:35 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:On October 10 2019 02:46 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 02:13 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
Why not?
National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era.
Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country.
I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially.
If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese?. I hope you understand that while this is an interesting conversation, your views are inherently skewed by the propaganda you've been fed every day. We know how the Chinese media works (and it's not just China btw. America has much of the same problems, and most of us here do recognise it as such). You have already made made several false statements and made comparisons that does not make sense (Comparing China to England because England has a mock Queen for instance). As such everything you say will be taken with the biggest grain of salt imaginable I do think it's interesting what the ordinary Chinese thinks, but it truthfully doesn't matter. You don't get to commit human rights violations and consider it ok because "The ordinary Chinese thinks so". Guess who doesn't think it's ok? Hong Kong and its citizens. Very interesting, wrong comparison I just want to show that some forms of democracy and freedom will change, just as discrimination against blacks is definitely not one of freedom of speech in the United States. Although Martin Luther King was killed. Similarly, China's democracy and freedom are not so much the same as the United States, because the so-called autocracy and dictator seem to be like the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan. And when you talk about it, we should think about Hong Kong and its citizens. I am very eager to ask, do you know how many Hong Kong people participated in this Chinese National Day celebration? Including young people, college students, government officials, police, famous stars, and ordinary people. Do you think we should think about Hong Kong people, then do you know how many people in Hong Kong support the police parade? The police in Hong Kong, the government in Hong Kong, Hong Kong, so many condemns the violent protesters, and the ordinary people, shouting at the bbc reporters, this is Hong Kong, China, the taxi driver who supports the law revision, isn't it Hong Kong? What you see seems to be the collective public opinion of Hong Kong, actually because those people have amplified this reaction through radical methods. Think about it, if it is really a problem of the society and the Chinese government, the Hong Kong government, the ordinary people of Hong Kong (Is it not ordinary people and the grassroots officials?) Are these attitudes still not showing anything? Think about how good the credibility of the Hong Kong government is, and the same group of people are not trusted now. The vast majority of protesters on the streets of Hong Kong are college students, young people, and young unemployed people. Is this a normal antibody or a collective carnival of young people, like an American youth who likes to take drugs? China has experienced two very painful students, and the young people have dominated the political violent protests, almost smashing the entire country. However, these protests did not make more than a billion people ignorant, and the ordinary Chinese who were at a loss knew how to live well. The Chinese have supported all the legal acts of Hong Kong and have wanted to split China and Hong Kong for many years. There is nothing too fierce. We support Hong Kong, support democracy, support freedom, and even to some extent, support universal suffrage in Hong Kong. However, what you have to understand is what is the slogan of Hong Kong's independence and violence? This is what the Hong Kong player and the NBA rocket manager said. This is also why the Chinese currently call it a terrorist, because terrorists in the Middle East often call themselves freedom fighters. If Hong Kong, China, is not dominated by the majority of Chinese people and by the majority of Hong Kong people, then who will decide? Can Texas and California declare independence today and expel all blacks and people from other states？ So，why China give up HK？and Violent protestors demanding the expulsion of mainlanders？ In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons。 (you can find it in many Hong Kong movies，In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons (you can find out from many Hong Kong movies, including asking mainlanders if they have seen Apple phones made in China, and mocking the mainland for lack of high-rise power and modern technology, the same thing is still happening to Chinese people in Europe, the United States, etc.)It used to be Korea and Japan.). You bring up valid points, but what you seem to miss out on is how this all started in the first place. There is currently a Sino-British joint declaration agreement between China and the UK dated back in 1984 and went into effect in 1997 stating that HK will have its own government, is able to pass its own laws, and that their way of life would not change for 50 years. You can read a bit on that agreement here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration. This means that in this agreement, China agreed that its PRC principles would not be practiced in HK until 2047. Despite this agreement, in 2014, China proposed a reform to HK's electoral system, a clear infringement of the agreement. Since China agreed that HK could remain autonomous and have authority over their own government, then why is China screening candidates for HK's Chief Executive? This started around 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests), and afterwards the British Foreign Office announced that Chinese officials now treat this declaration as void. You say China support HK's democracy, then why not let the HK'ers elect who they want, instead of screening who they want the HK people to elect? The HK'ers are upset because they were promised 50 years, but China is trying to impose only 22 years into the treaty. Does this mean China's words aren't even worth 50% of what they put on papers? So flash forward to the current protest, how did it start? Well, China wanted to pass an extradite bill in HK, another infringement of the current agreement. HK'ers did not want this law, which they are within their own rights to deny since China agreed it will not impose, yet China still adamantly demand that this law be passed. If you look over at the 5 demands HK is currently protesting for, they are extremely reasonable given that China started this by breaking their words. 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019. 2. Inquiry into police brutality - Also valid, the people would like to investigate police's conduct. The police are meant to protect the people, not beat them up when they are protesting. 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as rioters - This started because China broke its words, so the people were upset and protested. Had China not broke its words, this wouldn't have happened. The people marched because China lied, not because they randomly rioted out of no where. This point can be a case by case basis with some standards since I understand not all protesters are good, some can be destructive, and we should judge them fairly. 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters - Same as point 3. 5. Dual universal suffrage, for both their Legislative and Chief Executive - Again, China signed an agreement that allows the HK'ers to manage their own government. If they are true to their words, let the HK'ers decide how they want their government to be ran. My main point is that HK originally didn't protest for independence. This was NOT how the protest started. They started because China lied and backed out of their own words only 22 years into a 50 years signed agreement. It is only escalating because instead of admitting they were in the wrong, China cracked down on the HK citizens. HK citizens now are entertaining independence because they realized Mainland China does not keep its word. To use a Starcraft analogy, this is similar to Mengsk, Reynor, and Kerrigan working together, yet Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan on that one planet (forgot the name). When Reynor became rightfully pissed for what Mengsk did and turned on him, Mengsk called Reynor a terrorist. China is pulling a Mengsk right now. If China is true to its words. Come back in 28 years and let the HK'ers do what they want to do with their government for now. 1. China hopes to sign extradition regulations with Hong Kong (extending criminal offenders because there have been criminals who have committed murder and rape in mainland China and have been cast into Hong Kong. The Chinese government and other countries such as the United States also have extradition regulations, and the Hong Kong government has other regions. The state has extradition regulations). Why is it rejected? This is not because mainland China requires the implementation of laws in Hong Kong, but hopes to sign regulations with Hong Kong. This is actually very strange. It is actually an agreement between a country and a country within a country. 2. I hope that you can read the Sino-British Joint Declaration carefully. He has not given the British any rights after this. You can blame the Chinese government, but because of this, I think other countries are involved. This is still the Beijing government of China and the Hong Kong region. problem. In addition, the Chinese government's commitment is to keep Hong Kong unchanged for 50 years. I don't know how you understand it. I have two thoughts. One is to continue Hong Kong before the colony in 1997, and the second is to follow the basic law after 1997. Hong Kong. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a colony. Hong Kong people did not even have British nationality. The leaders of Hong Kong were all British whites. They were also British nationals, both the first and the second, including the Hong Kong Constitution, the Sino-British Joint Declaration. During the British colonial period, there was no universal suffrage. I don't know where Hong Kong's universal suffrage comes from. This violates the Constitution of Hong Kong - the Basic Law. In addition, without universal suffrage, it cannot mean that they have no democracy. Hong Kong's politics is closer to the Swiss political system, and each leader does not adopt the Swiss rotation system. Keeping it for 50 years, isn't it just that there is no universal suffrage? Once the universal suffrage is not a violation of the China Commitment and the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and the Hong Kong Basic Law? Although I think that Hong Kong has been harming itself for 50 years, the development of first-tier cities in China is much better than that of Hong Kong. For me, I have lived in Shanghai for a long time, and Hong Kong is like a rural area. Of course, I am not actually, most of them. This is also true in Europe, and I have a stark contrast to the views of Japanese cities. 3. The Chinese government of Beijing and all Chinese have never opposed liberal democracy and legal protests. However, after the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese were sensitive to the protests because we realized that such collective behavior would often evolve into violence. For example, China’s previous protests, the US bombing of the Yugoslav embassy, and Japan’s activities to commemorate the death of soldiers in World War II. This kind of parade in China has produced extreme violence, as happened in Hong Kong. If you don't trust the Chinese and don't trust the Chinese government, don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised, don't believe it? Don't you believe in Western media? Go look for their evaluation of the Hong Kong police and the Hong Kong government in history. 4. Special criminals are not advisable. Think about the United States, but the country with the highest proportion of prison population. Of course, I don't want China to become the United States. But think about it. There are many British nationals in the Hong Kong police, white people (maybe I think you still don't believe in the yellow race, but I don't think it is racist). Hong Kong's judicial system, so the judges are British nationality, Australian nationality, 90% of judges are white. You should trust them, not a group of unemployed people, a group of young people who have taken a poison and drink alcohol and have sex on the roadside (although you call it freedom, but often these are blocked by neutral media). Opposite to these violent protesters are peaceful protesters who have long since left the protest, and supporters who support the police, support the Hong Kong government, and support the Chinese government. They are more numerous, but unfortunately they need to work and they do not use violence. So it seems to be weak, and because many of them are older people (you should have heard of Hong Kong's aging), they are not very familiar with the Internet, and the Internet is now a Z-age person (in fact, 1995-2000) Born person). 5. Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people. Hong Kong knows that Hong Kong is bought by Li Ka-shing, and that the Chinese government cannot interfere and support socialism. Everyone has food and housing. Later, the economic decline of Western society, if you are a European, there should be experience, the US economy has recently grown, but it is also uncomfortable. After the 2008 financial turmoil, it has been declining for a long time. China is getting better and better. When China gets better, when they find that the Chinese who once earned 200 yuan a month have the same income and even more money, they find that they can’t be like the colonial era. Next, when it came to China, it became a millionaire, went to bed with more girls, and bought more luxurious cosmetics. So I hope to return to the colonial era and pass violence. (Their slogan is what you saw in this Hong Kong player and the NBA), by robbing mobile phone stores, selling them online, by raising the flags of the United States and the United Kingdom. I saw Swedes, and I think I should understand why, academically, the Sedgmo syndrome. Perhaps Westerners believe that the colonial era is very glorious. "don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised" "Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people." This is trolling for sure... I can hardly find any other explanations. Oh, poor man. In fact, it is very simple. You only need to use Google to search for the gap between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong. Have you been to Hong Kong and China? I am very familiar with it. Yeah yeah I can find Gini index for every country in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equalityBut why do you think that's the reason of the protest? Where did you find that? Who told you that? You are very familiar with it but you don't know the reason? After removing the tax and welfare transfers, Hong Kong’s Gini index was as high as 0.54. If you have been to Chicago and New York, think about where the tramp is, social security (Hong Kong people want to thank the Hong Kong police for their efforts) In addition, you should check that the top ten billionaires in Hong Kong account for Hong Kong's GDP (more than 35%). The disparity between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong has been criticized by the United Nations. If you can visit Hong Kong's own website You will find that Hong Kong officially announced that there are 1.3 million poor people in 7.6 million people in Hong Kong. Perhaps you should use Google to search for the poor in Hong Kong directly, or go to Hong Kong in person. Take a look at the slums in the bustling city. (The slums in mainland China have long since disappeared) Hong Kong is an area without a universal retirement protection system. It is well developed, but his university enrollment rate is only 20%. This is the famous ten universities in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a developed region and an unbalanced region. You should probably look at the encyclopedia about Li Ka-shing and see his property. We call him Lee half HK (Lee half HK)
Why are you repeating the same thing over and over again? Yes HongKong has poor people and rich people, but that's not the cause of the protest. You don't even know when it began.
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Imagine instead of the player from Hong Kong supporting the protests it was, let's say a Russian guy wearing a kappa pride mask asking attention for how gay people are treated in his country. Would Blizzard have reacted in the same way? I highly doubt it.
Blizzard dealt with this ridiculously harshly and has even removed the video as if it never happened. It's absurd.
@chuchuchu: This matter isn't really that much about China's influence it's more about Blizzard casting aside morals for money. The only reason they did this is because they want a piece of the Chinese mobile gaming market. This is what people are pissed about.
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Blizzard acted in a greedy and gutless manner.
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On October 10 2019 04:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:
1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019.
huh? Do you know what extradition is? Extradition is not related to the promise of "not imposing their laws". The USA doesn't impose its laws in Canada. However, if I run a giant telemarketing scam from Canada ripping off thousands of USA senior citizens I can be extradited to the USA by Canada. This doesn't mean the USA is imposing its laws in Canada. Both countries have prison sentences for people committing massive levels of fraud.
This. I can understand the feelings of the people involved in the massive rally from Hong Kong, they clearly hate the CCP and mainland China for various reasons and the protestors want a sovereign country or independence not that it's going to happen. I don't seem to understand what China did wrong from the perspective of countries outside of Hong Kong to get so much hate in this particular event, other than people who clearly hate China and view it as an evil or an enemy state.
And just to make it clear, China signed the agreement for Hong Kong with the British Colonial rule, because it was a good deal at the time for them as they were signing from the perspective of a weak state. Now that they are clearly not a weak country anymore I don't expect them to fully honor the agreements until 2047, just like any country in a position of power would... E.g. Trump's withdrawal from various agreements.
On October 10 2019 05:10 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:50 raga4ka wrote:On October 10 2019 04:24 StasisField wrote:On October 10 2019 04:22 whitehat511 wrote:On October 10 2019 03:26 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese? It's like I'm here to express the thoughts of an ordinary Chinese. Indeed, I feel sad that I didn't learn English well, because what I lost is not a good paper, but an opportunity to communicate with others. Not only Americans can define the world. The pioneers of socialism and communism are Germans and French. Formerly President Roosevelt of the United States was also criticized for socialism or communism. But think about Chinese history, the current development of China, and the past workers of Britain. Some ideological conflicts are unavoidable, especially under the propaganda of some western media, they usually distort the report in order to satisfy their own interests. China does not do very well in many places, but it does not want to do so. No Chinese wants his country to be like India with the same population. (I do not mean to discriminate. Most Chinese want to live a good life first and guarantee everyone the same rights, wealth, rights and status.) In China, it is still possible to elect people who have been upgraded from the grassroots level through examinations and votes, while officials at the grassroots level are also elected. In China, former leaders were even born to poor peasants rather than a billion-dollar owner or equally wealthy political family. Both father and son are presidents. Western media believe that China is undemocratic and not free, and the Chinese believe that they are free and democratic. This seems to be a disgusting tactic. I was disappointed with many of the statements, especially those of the distorted Sixth Fourth Movement (my father was one of the participants, but later they built China into the second largest country in the world), and those who believed that the Hong Kong police should not react to any of the protestors'actions. When commenting, consider that China has 1.4 billion people. This country can not change because of the ideas of more than a dozen people, thousands of people and tens of thousands of people. The most important thing is to ensure that more than a billion people, like other Westerners, can live with wealth and dignity on this planet. I wonder what this guy thinks about the hundreds of students that were murdered at Tienanmen Square in 1989. And I wonder what you think about the Trail of Tears? The Trail of Tears is universally taught as an abhorrent action by the United States government here in the US. It is not celebrated. Its brutal events are condemned by the people and by society. So now tell us what you think about Tienanmen Square in 1989. Tienanmen Square in 1989 was also a brutal event and a mistake like many throughout history... And so what? 3 decades or 30 years have passed, 3 leaders have changed, lessons have been learned. You think that Xi Jinping will start killing his own people like in the past? What does Tienanmen Square have to do with the situation now at hand in Hong Kong? After 4 months of violent protesting and rioting, there is 1 person shot (not even dead) after he attacked a policeman. If anything Hong Kong police are handling the situation way better then countries like France or the US... The reason I and many others bring it up is the difference in how a country's atrocities are handled by the country itself. And yes, many people fear that China will escalate to lethal force if the protests continue. And 4 months of violent protests? That's completely disingenuous and you know it. The protests were completely peaceful on the protesters' side of things for a very long time. They only recently became violent on both sides of the protest.
"On 12 June, the day on which the bill was scheduled for a second reading in the Legislative Council, the protests showed a sharp escalation in violence. " From Wikipedia... The violence started on the 12 June and escalated after that.
Well many people don't truly believe that China will use lethal forces, otherwise, they would assume that China and the CCP are stuck in the past and haven't learned anything or evolved since 1989. Which is surely a wrong statement after 30 years from the event. Unless people truly hate China and the CCP which isn't abnormal as people of far different cultures don't have the knowledge of Chinese history, mentality and culture and misunderstand them influenced by western views and propaganda. Otherwise, I don't see any rational reason why someone would assume a second Tienanmen Square would repeat, China has evolved a great deal since and it's not like North Korea... Imo even North Korea is progressing all bait quite slowly.
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On October 10 2019 05:01 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 04:45 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 04:24 StasisField wrote:On October 10 2019 04:22 whitehat511 wrote:On October 10 2019 03:26 Meta wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:28 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On October 10 2019 01:04 Spirit_HUN wrote:
When this player signed up for that tournament, he accepted the rules.
He simply broke the rules, ended up banning himself.
Blizzard did the right thing. This is a video game company, not a political platform.
If you are concerned about human rights in Hong Kong the are other ways, platforms to do that.
You should not force a video game company to be political.
There are no political comments in the Olympics, Football, Formula1 etc. as well.
I dont want video games, sports events to be filled with politics. Viewers are there to be entertained, competitors are there to compete, and not to be forced to eat political bs 0-24. They’re not a political platform, but they do have a clear political position here which is tow whatever line the Chinese authorities want them to tow. Seems to me it was a pretty good platform for the guy to use really, although the attention it gained was more from Blizzard’s reaction than his actions specifically. Gained a fuckload of traction even US Senators are wading in, doubt he’d have been able to elicit such a response with a tweet. China and especially the Gulf States use sport as an extension of their soft power, they’ve made it political already, likewise the Cold War saw sporting events like the Olympics as an ideological battleground. if it is not an political extension of soft power,why some officials of the organization are talking about politics？if not,STOP talking.As an official, you can't blatantly confront the Chinese public opinion while thinking that discrimination against Chinese people, Chinese culture and support separatism and violence. Why not? National self-determination is a key principle of geopolitics in the modern era. Considering a bomb blew in the windows of my house when I was but a babe, I’m quite happy that the United States interceded and helped facilitate a peace here that respected both of the national identities in our wee country. I would personally like to see more of China and its culture emerge onto the world stage, an old and venerable culture indeed, whose people have accomplished remarkable things in the last few decades especially. If it’s by trampling on everyone and expecting Westerners to bend to their whims and where criticism is construed as a grievous insult then, no thanks. When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese? It's like I'm here to express the thoughts of an ordinary Chinese. Indeed, I feel sad that I didn't learn English well, because what I lost is not a good paper, but an opportunity to communicate with others. Not only Americans can define the world. The pioneers of socialism and communism are Germans and French. Formerly President Roosevelt of the United States was also criticized for socialism or communism. But think about Chinese history, the current development of China, and the past workers of Britain. Some ideological conflicts are unavoidable, especially under the propaganda of some western media, they usually distort the report in order to satisfy their own interests. China does not do very well in many places, but it does not want to do so. No Chinese wants his country to be like India with the same population. (I do not mean to discriminate. Most Chinese want to live a good life first and guarantee everyone the same rights, wealth, rights and status.) In China, it is still possible to elect people who have been upgraded from the grassroots level through examinations and votes, while officials at the grassroots level are also elected. In China, former leaders were even born to poor peasants rather than a billion-dollar owner or equally wealthy political family. Both father and son are presidents. Western media believe that China is undemocratic and not free, and the Chinese believe that they are free and democratic. This seems to be a disgusting tactic. I was disappointed with many of the statements, especially those of the distorted Sixth Fourth Movement (my father was one of the participants, but later they built China into the second largest country in the world), and those who believed that the Hong Kong police should not react to any of the protestors'actions. When commenting, consider that China has 1.4 billion people. This country can not change because of the ideas of more than a dozen people, thousands of people and tens of thousands of people. The most important thing is to ensure that more than a billion people, like other Westerners, can live with wealth and dignity on this planet. I wonder what this guy thinks about the hundreds of students that were murdered at Tienanmen Square in 1989. And I wonder what you think about the Trail of Tears? The Trail of Tears is universally taught as an abhorrent action by the United States government here in the US. It is not celebrated. Its brutal events are condemned by the people and by society. So now tell us what you think about Tienanmen Square in 1989. The Chinese often regard 1989 as the same event as the Cultural Revolution. If you preach him, for the Chinese, as if to promote k.k.k, my father used to be one of them, but he told me a lot. The reason why the Chinese do not want to talk about the 1989 and the Cultural Revolution, because this is a disaster and an unspeakable thing. More importantly, they are related to political struggles. It’s as if Americans don’t talk about Lincoln actually not liberating all black slaves. The African Americans actually struggled for human rights until the 1960s-1970s, but today it is no longer a simple assassination of Martin Luther King. In fact, you can see when I see you talking to you here. China is not what you think. I will still talk to you about this, because Blizzard is often more tolerant, just like StarCraft, or World of Warcraft shows. I will not be arrested. Similarly, if I know you in reality, maybe I will pretend not to know and be surprised as you mentioned above. In fact, I started to understand 1989, or from China's website (dark network, the Chinese network is very complicated, in fact, you can find what you want, including everything that violates all human laws) Because we don't want to talk about it, this is not a simple thing. Just like we don't talk about conspiracy theories on the moon or aliens in the 51st district. We talked about Kennedy flying more to the moon and today's nasa, not to him and Marilyn Monroe, as well as Cuba, and the conspiracy theories he was killed. (Actually, these conspiracy theories in the United States were very popular in China. People refused to believe that landing on the moon was true. People also believed that Kennedy died of Marilyn Monroe and family curses, and there were really aliens in District 51.) People in the US talk about our historical figures' short-comings all the time. They are taught in schools. They are not something we have to go seek out on our own on a website. My US History teacher brought up the hypocrisy of Thomas Jefferson writing "The right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" while still owning slaves many times. We were taught about Lincoln's actual beliefs and how what he did did not truly liberate everyone and bring us on an even playing field. The struggles of the Civil Rights movement are talked about in-depth in schools. The atrocities of our government are openly taught and condemned. You just grouped Tienanmen Square in with conspiracy theories and that's all that I think really needs to be said on that, but I will say more. Your own government murdered its own people. It drove students over with tanks without issue. Students that were peacefully protesting. Your government murdered people. It happened. It is not a conspiracy and it does not deserve to be treated like some outlandish concept. The fact you are so afraid to talk about awful things your government has done speaks volumes.
I guess the problem with Google Translate.
I just said that I or other Chinese people are trying to refuse to talk about these issues, not that we don't understand, or that we don't know, afraid of some kind of revenge.
The only reason is that, as the problem we are facing now is the same, a group of Westerners are trying to convince a Chinese to have a view about China.
They have a premise that they are correct. And reject all Chinese views, even if this is a Chinese issue.
We don't want to lie, so often we pretend not to know and refuse to talk. Because we know that we can't convince a group of people who only live in the West.
Just like my useless work now.
Just as you don't believe in all the Chinese who have expressed their views on this, but when you try to find information, you can find that in all official documents, the United States, the European Union, and the United Nations, except for the media that is full of conspiracy theories.
Even Wikipedia has debates about whether there is a massacre in Tiananmen (1989).
Of course, you choose to believe in online media. And a Chinese (my family) who has had a real experience is brainwashed.
I don't think that we are talking about these things based on conspiracy theories. I just want to explain that sometimes when we look at American things, or when events, the Chinese will deviate from the truth of the matter, and prefer to think that conspiracy theories are correct.
You said, you are a troll. I don't believe that the Chinese government is evil and has committed various crimes.
So why did someone just talk about it, and he met someone in Shanghai who told him that Falun Gong is evil? (Maybe I understand it wrong.)
We are in the classroom, if you are talking about any character in the classroom, from small to large, we are listening to political or historical teachers who constantly criticize the government or historical leaders.
Because of George's relationship (Fiction 1994), we often joked that there will be a big brother who arrests you. It is a mockery of the ignorance of Westerners, not fear.
This happened in history, but it was in the era of Martin Luther King’s struggle.
If you are telling the truth, think about it, will we communicate here?
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On October 10 2019 05:27 jy_9876543210 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 05:18 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 04:57 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 04:48 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 04:41 jy_9876543210 wrote:On October 10 2019 04:35 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 03:57 phodacbiet wrote:On October 10 2019 02:46 chuchuchu wrote:On October 10 2019 02:13 Excludos wrote:On October 10 2019 02:04 chuchuchu wrote:
[quote]
When you think so, have you ever asked about the thoughts of ordinary Chinese?. I hope you understand that while this is an interesting conversation, your views are inherently skewed by the propaganda you've been fed every day. We know how the Chinese media works (and it's not just China btw. America has much of the same problems, and most of us here do recognise it as such). You have already made made several false statements and made comparisons that does not make sense (Comparing China to England because England has a mock Queen for instance). As such everything you say will be taken with the biggest grain of salt imaginable I do think it's interesting what the ordinary Chinese thinks, but it truthfully doesn't matter. You don't get to commit human rights violations and consider it ok because "The ordinary Chinese thinks so". Guess who doesn't think it's ok? Hong Kong and its citizens. Very interesting, wrong comparison I just want to show that some forms of democracy and freedom will change, just as discrimination against blacks is definitely not one of freedom of speech in the United States. Although Martin Luther King was killed. Similarly, China's democracy and freedom are not so much the same as the United States, because the so-called autocracy and dictator seem to be like the Queen of England and the Emperor of Japan. And when you talk about it, we should think about Hong Kong and its citizens. I am very eager to ask, do you know how many Hong Kong people participated in this Chinese National Day celebration? Including young people, college students, government officials, police, famous stars, and ordinary people. Do you think we should think about Hong Kong people, then do you know how many people in Hong Kong support the police parade? The police in Hong Kong, the government in Hong Kong, Hong Kong, so many condemns the violent protesters, and the ordinary people, shouting at the bbc reporters, this is Hong Kong, China, the taxi driver who supports the law revision, isn't it Hong Kong? What you see seems to be the collective public opinion of Hong Kong, actually because those people have amplified this reaction through radical methods. Think about it, if it is really a problem of the society and the Chinese government, the Hong Kong government, the ordinary people of Hong Kong (Is it not ordinary people and the grassroots officials?) Are these attitudes still not showing anything? Think about how good the credibility of the Hong Kong government is, and the same group of people are not trusted now. The vast majority of protesters on the streets of Hong Kong are college students, young people, and young unemployed people. Is this a normal antibody or a collective carnival of young people, like an American youth who likes to take drugs? China has experienced two very painful students, and the young people have dominated the political violent protests, almost smashing the entire country. However, these protests did not make more than a billion people ignorant, and the ordinary Chinese who were at a loss knew how to live well. The Chinese have supported all the legal acts of Hong Kong and have wanted to split China and Hong Kong for many years. There is nothing too fierce. We support Hong Kong, support democracy, support freedom, and even to some extent, support universal suffrage in Hong Kong. However, what you have to understand is what is the slogan of Hong Kong's independence and violence? This is what the Hong Kong player and the NBA rocket manager said. This is also why the Chinese currently call it a terrorist, because terrorists in the Middle East often call themselves freedom fighters. If Hong Kong, China, is not dominated by the majority of Chinese people and by the majority of Hong Kong people, then who will decide? Can Texas and California declare independence today and expel all blacks and people from other states？ So，why China give up HK？and Violent protestors demanding the expulsion of mainlanders？ In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons。 (you can find it in many Hong Kong movies，In mainland China, Hong Kong people's bad reputation, sense of geographical superiority and discrimination against mainlanders are the main reasons (you can find out from many Hong Kong movies, including asking mainlanders if they have seen Apple phones made in China, and mocking the mainland for lack of high-rise power and modern technology, the same thing is still happening to Chinese people in Europe, the United States, etc.)It used to be Korea and Japan.). You bring up valid points, but what you seem to miss out on is how this all started in the first place. There is currently a Sino-British joint declaration agreement between China and the UK dated back in 1984 and went into effect in 1997 stating that HK will have its own government, is able to pass its own laws, and that their way of life would not change for 50 years. You can read a bit on that agreement here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration. This means that in this agreement, China agreed that its PRC principles would not be practiced in HK until 2047. Despite this agreement, in 2014, China proposed a reform to HK's electoral system, a clear infringement of the agreement. Since China agreed that HK could remain autonomous and have authority over their own government, then why is China screening candidates for HK's Chief Executive? This started around 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests), and afterwards the British Foreign Office announced that Chinese officials now treat this declaration as void. You say China support HK's democracy, then why not let the HK'ers elect who they want, instead of screening who they want the HK people to elect? The HK'ers are upset because they were promised 50 years, but China is trying to impose only 22 years into the treaty. Does this mean China's words aren't even worth 50% of what they put on papers? So flash forward to the current protest, how did it start? Well, China wanted to pass an extradite bill in HK, another infringement of the current agreement. HK'ers did not want this law, which they are within their own rights to deny since China agreed it will not impose, yet China still adamantly demand that this law be passed. If you look over at the 5 demands HK is currently protesting for, they are extremely reasonable given that China started this by breaking their words. 1. Full withdrawal of the extradition bill - Very valid demand, considering China signed an agreement that they will not be imposing their laws in HK until 2047. Last I checked, it's only 2019. 2. Inquiry into police brutality - Also valid, the people would like to investigate police's conduct. The police are meant to protect the people, not beat them up when they are protesting. 3. Retracting the classification of protesters as rioters - This started because China broke its words, so the people were upset and protested. Had China not broke its words, this wouldn't have happened. The people marched because China lied, not because they randomly rioted out of no where. This point can be a case by case basis with some standards since I understand not all protesters are good, some can be destructive, and we should judge them fairly. 4. Amnesty for arrested protesters - Same as point 3. 5. Dual universal suffrage, for both their Legislative and Chief Executive - Again, China signed an agreement that allows the HK'ers to manage their own government. If they are true to their words, let the HK'ers decide how they want their government to be ran. My main point is that HK originally didn't protest for independence. This was NOT how the protest started. They started because China lied and backed out of their own words only 22 years into a 50 years signed agreement. It is only escalating because instead of admitting they were in the wrong, China cracked down on the HK citizens. HK citizens now are entertaining independence because they realized Mainland China does not keep its word. To use a Starcraft analogy, this is similar to Mengsk, Reynor, and Kerrigan working together, yet Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan on that one planet (forgot the name). When Reynor became rightfully pissed for what Mengsk did and turned on him, Mengsk called Reynor a terrorist. China is pulling a Mengsk right now. If China is true to its words. Come back in 28 years and let the HK'ers do what they want to do with their government for now. 1. China hopes to sign extradition regulations with Hong Kong (extending criminal offenders because there have been criminals who have committed murder and rape in mainland China and have been cast into Hong Kong. The Chinese government and other countries such as the United States also have extradition regulations, and the Hong Kong government has other regions. The state has extradition regulations). Why is it rejected? This is not because mainland China requires the implementation of laws in Hong Kong, but hopes to sign regulations with Hong Kong. This is actually very strange. It is actually an agreement between a country and a country within a country. 2. I hope that you can read the Sino-British Joint Declaration carefully. He has not given the British any rights after this. You can blame the Chinese government, but because of this, I think other countries are involved. This is still the Beijing government of China and the Hong Kong region. problem. In addition, the Chinese government's commitment is to keep Hong Kong unchanged for 50 years. I don't know how you understand it. I have two thoughts. One is to continue Hong Kong before the colony in 1997, and the second is to follow the basic law after 1997. Hong Kong. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a colony. Hong Kong people did not even have British nationality. The leaders of Hong Kong were all British whites. They were also British nationals, both the first and the second, including the Hong Kong Constitution, the Sino-British Joint Declaration. During the British colonial period, there was no universal suffrage. I don't know where Hong Kong's universal suffrage comes from. This violates the Constitution of Hong Kong - the Basic Law. In addition, without universal suffrage, it cannot mean that they have no democracy. Hong Kong's politics is closer to the Swiss political system, and each leader does not adopt the Swiss rotation system. Keeping it for 50 years, isn't it just that there is no universal suffrage? Once the universal suffrage is not a violation of the China Commitment and the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and the Hong Kong Basic Law? Although I think that Hong Kong has been harming itself for 50 years, the development of first-tier cities in China is much better than that of Hong Kong. For me, I have lived in Shanghai for a long time, and Hong Kong is like a rural area. Of course, I am not actually, most of them. This is also true in Europe, and I have a stark contrast to the views of Japanese cities. 3. The Chinese government of Beijing and all Chinese have never opposed liberal democracy and legal protests. However, after the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese were sensitive to the protests because we realized that such collective behavior would often evolve into violence. For example, China’s previous protests, the US bombing of the Yugoslav embassy, and Japan’s activities to commemorate the death of soldiers in World War II. This kind of parade in China has produced extreme violence, as happened in Hong Kong. If you don't trust the Chinese and don't trust the Chinese government, don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised, don't believe it? Don't you believe in Western media? Go look for their evaluation of the Hong Kong police and the Hong Kong government in history. 4. Special criminals are not advisable. Think about the United States, but the country with the highest proportion of prison population. Of course, I don't want China to become the United States. But think about it. There are many British nationals in the Hong Kong police, white people (maybe I think you still don't believe in the yellow race, but I don't think it is racist). Hong Kong's judicial system, so the judges are British nationality, Australian nationality, 90% of judges are white. You should trust them, not a group of unemployed people, a group of young people who have taken a poison and drink alcohol and have sex on the roadside (although you call it freedom, but often these are blocked by neutral media). Opposite to these violent protesters are peaceful protesters who have long since left the protest, and supporters who support the police, support the Hong Kong government, and support the Chinese government. They are more numerous, but unfortunately they need to work and they do not use violence. So it seems to be weak, and because many of them are older people (you should have heard of Hong Kong's aging), they are not very familiar with the Internet, and the Internet is now a Z-age person (in fact, 1995-2000) Born person). 5. Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people. Hong Kong knows that Hong Kong is bought by Li Ka-shing, and that the Chinese government cannot interfere and support socialism. Everyone has food and housing. Later, the economic decline of Western society, if you are a European, there should be experience, the US economy has recently grown, but it is also uncomfortable. After the 2008 financial turmoil, it has been declining for a long time. China is getting better and better. When China gets better, when they find that the Chinese who once earned 200 yuan a month have the same income and even more money, they find that they can’t be like the colonial era. Next, when it came to China, it became a millionaire, went to bed with more girls, and bought more luxurious cosmetics. So I hope to return to the colonial era and pass violence. (Their slogan is what you saw in this Hong Kong player and the NBA), by robbing mobile phone stores, selling them online, by raising the flags of the United States and the United Kingdom. I saw Swedes, and I think I should understand why, academically, the Sedgmo syndrome. Perhaps Westerners believe that the colonial era is very glorious. "don't you believe that the Hong Kong government and the Hong Kong police, which have always been highly praised" "Why did they protest? Quite simply, young people can't find a job without a way out, and they are poor. The long-term segregation policy with mainland China discriminates against mainland Chinese people and believes that they are all poor people, as whites discriminate against black people." This is trolling for sure... I can hardly find any other explanations. Oh, poor man. In fact, it is very simple. You only need to use Google to search for the gap between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong. Have you been to Hong Kong and China? I am very familiar with it. Yeah yeah I can find Gini index for every country in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equalityBut why do you think that's the reason of the protest? Where did you find that? Who told you that? You are very familiar with it but you don't know the reason? After removing the tax and welfare transfers, Hong Kong’s Gini index was as high as 0.54. If you have been to Chicago and New York, think about where the tramp is, social security (Hong Kong people want to thank the Hong Kong police for their efforts) In addition, you should check that the top ten billionaires in Hong Kong account for Hong Kong's GDP (more than 35%). The disparity between the rich and the poor in Hong Kong has been criticized by the United Nations. If you can visit Hong Kong's own website You will find that Hong Kong officially announced that there are 1.3 million poor people in 7.6 million people in Hong Kong. Perhaps you should use Google to search for the poor in Hong Kong directly, or go to Hong Kong in person. Take a look at the slums in the bustling city. (The slums in mainland China have long since disappeared) Hong Kong is an area without a universal retirement protection system. It is well developed, but his university enrollment rate is only 20%. This is the famous ten universities in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is a developed region and an unbalanced region. You should probably look at the encyclopedia about Li Ka-shing and see his property. We call him Lee half HK (Lee half HK) Why are you repeating the same thing over and over again? Yes HongKong has poor people and rich people, but that's not the cause of the protest. You don't even know when it began.
I certainly know how to get started, what is the reason, and the so-called five major demands.
What I told you is the real reason.
Because the reason you think is actually happening in Hong Kong within 100 years, not in such a time period.
The reasons they opposed were consistent with the violent protests in France.
Perhaps you think that the French violent protest is not because the rights of the poor are not guaranteed. But they like it, and the yearning for freedom.
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On October 10 2019 04:45 chuchuchu wrote:
In fact, you can see when I see you talking to you here. China is not what you think. I will still talk to you about this, because Blizzard is often more tolerant, just like StarCraft, or World of Warcraft shows. I will not be arrested.
The absolute most important thing to take out of everything you've said so far, is that you believe that being arrested for talking is somehow a completely normal thing, and than a western company like Blizzard would both have the power to do so (but chooses not to), or any power of this forum here whatsoever.
This. Is. Not. Normal! It is not considered ok to be arrested for voicing your opinions too loudly. This is what China does! To use the most cliché words in the history of cliché words: Wake up!
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EPT
